Obama sells out already?

RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Curl ConnoisseurPosts: 31,259Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
WTF is up with Obama selling out to that hate-monger right-wing anti-gay anti-woman anti-choice so-called minister, Rick Warren? He's having Warren be a part of his inauguration. This is going to piss off a lot of Obama supporters...myself included.
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  • Myradella3Myradella3 Posts: 2,481Registered Users
    Rev. Joseph Lowery, a supporter of gay marriage and abortion rights, is a part of the innaugaration as well. I think Warren is a good choice - lots of conservatives hate him!
  • BoomygrrlBoomygrrl Curl Neophyte Posts: 4,940Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Warren is anti-choice and anti-gay, but from what I hear, he is actually moderate in other aspects. I personally don't like the guy. I read one of his books once and he misquoted Bertrand Russell. As you know, RedCatWaves, and some others probably know, Bertrand Russell was a well-known atheist. His misquote made it look like that Bertrand Russell believed in God. It was sickening. Anything taken out of context can make it look like someone's opposing view. It made me doubt anything else he had to say.

    I'm not too thrilled with the choice of Rick Warren, but for whatever reason, Obama likes him. I'm not sure if it's a sell out or not, as I'm not sure what his reasoning is. Can anyone speculate what that reason might be?
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  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Curl Connoisseur Posts: 31,259Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I don't know why we need all these invocation and benediction prayers anyway. Separation of church and state anyone? Anyone?
  • MichelleBFTMichelleBFT Posts: 4,812Registered Users
    I don't know why we need all these invocation and benediction prayers anyway. Separation of church and state anyone? Anyone?

    Apparently not.

    I'm not super thrilled about this, but at least I know there will be part of the inauguration where I can find a bathroom without feeling like I'm missing out on something.
    "And politically correct is the worst term, not just because it’s dismissive, but because it narrows down the whole social justice spectrum to this idea that it’s about being polite instead of about dismantling the oppressive social structure of power.
    Fun Fact: When you actively avoid being “PC,” you’re not being forward-thinking or unique. You’re buying into systems of oppression that have existed since before you were even born, and you’re keeping those systems in place."
    Stolen.
  • legendslegends Posts: 3,073Registered Users
    Obama describes himself as a Christian and has said numerous times that he's opposed to gay marriage because of his religious beliefs. And let's not get into how much Democrats like to pander to social conservatives as soon as they get elected.

    This is to be expected.
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  • MichelleBFTMichelleBFT Posts: 4,812Registered Users
    legends wrote: »
    Obama describes himself as a Christian and has said numerous times that he's opposed to gay marriage because of his religious beliefs. And let's not get into how much Democrats like to pander to social conservatives as soon as they get elected.

    This is to be expected.

    I can't speak for other non-Christians, but I was kinda hoping he was only saying that so he wouldn't be vilified by the religious "right." I suppose that was a bit of a dream.
    "And politically correct is the worst term, not just because it’s dismissive, but because it narrows down the whole social justice spectrum to this idea that it’s about being polite instead of about dismantling the oppressive social structure of power.
    Fun Fact: When you actively avoid being “PC,” you’re not being forward-thinking or unique. You’re buying into systems of oppression that have existed since before you were even born, and you’re keeping those systems in place."
    Stolen.
  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Curl Connoisseur Posts: 31,259Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    legends wrote: »
    Obama describes himself as a Christian and has said numerous times that he's opposed to gay marriage because of his religious beliefs. And let's not get into how much Democrats like to pander to social conservatives as soon as they get elected.

    This is to be expected.

    I can't speak for other non-Christians, but I was kinda hoping he was only saying that so he wouldn't be vilified by the religious "right." I suppose that was a bit of a dream.


    I was holding out some hope that he had some sense about religious nonsense too...but, alas, he's still a politician...
  • misspammisspam Posts: 5,318Registered Users
    But.....won't the Pastor be praying for Obama and the incoming administration? Isn't that a good thing?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Curl Connoisseur Posts: 31,259Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    misspam wrote: »
    But.....won't the Pastor be praying for Obama and the incoming administration? Isn't that a good thing?




    Um...only if you believe religion is real. Otherwise, it's just symbolism. And choosing an anti-gay anti-woman preacher for such a high-profile role in the inauguration isn't a good symbol for an administration that says it wants to bring us together.
  • ninja dogninja dog Curl Neophyte Posts: 23,780Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Apparently, Obama supports Warren's efforts in the area of anti-poverty activism.
  • A_la_Nap-turalA_la_Nap-tural Posts: 409Registered Users

    I was holding out some hope that he had some sense about religious nonsense too...but, alas, he's still a politician...

    Yes, he is a politician. A christian one. Being so, I think it's quite appropriate to have someone pray over you and your administration, especially in such a high position of authority. Regardless of the pastor's own agenda, prayer works. Especially in numbers. When he gives that speech/prayer, or whatever it is, there will be millions of people standing in agreement asking that the Obama administration be blessed. Not standing in agreement with the pastor's own agenda.

    Maybe you don't buy into all of that, and you see it as "religious nonsense" and nothing but symbolism, but for me and many others, it's a way of life. I'll even go further to say, it's life changing! Truly, none of us know Obama personally. You've never known of Obama without his faith. The man who he is today could very well be because of his faith. So why should he tuck his religion in the closet when in office? If it helped him get where he is, why turn from it now?

    Malcom X comes to mind. Before Islam, he was a hellraiser. When he chose to recognize the infinite power of the Divine Being (or Allah for him, God for me), it was then that he began to do good beyond himself. He was a better man BECAUSE OF his faith. His faith, which by the way, led him to a surprising truth that his own formed religion (as in the traditions and practices of his peers) was not the way, but rather spirituality and building a relationship with the Divine Being is. What would have become of Malcom had he not found his God? What would have become of Malcom had he found God and them denied him when things began to go good?
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  • MarMar Curl Neophyte Posts: 3,004Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Well,I look at it this way:he said he was going to reach out to everybody,right?
    "what's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?"



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  • A_la_Nap-turalA_la_Nap-tural Posts: 409Registered Users
    Mar wrote: »
    Well,I look at it this way:he said he was going to reach out to everybody,right?

    Right!

    From MSNBC:
    In a news conference Thursday, Obama said he is a "fierce advocate for equality for gay and lesbian Americans." But he said he will build relationships with people of opposing views, and wants his inaugural to reflect that goal.

    "That dialogue, I think, is part of what my campaign's been all about: That we're not going to agree on every single issue, but what we have to do is to be able to create an atmosphere when we — where we can disagree without being disagreeable and then focus on those things that we hold in common as Americans," he said.

    Looks like he IS in fact doing what he promised.
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  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Curl Connoisseur Posts: 31,259Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Yes, he is a politician. A christian one. Being so, I think it's quite appropriate to have someone pray over you and your administration,



    That should be done in private. Keep your religion out of my gov't.
  • NetGNetG Posts: 8,116Registered Users
    I say this as a non-Christian...

    The type of thinking leading to this thread is why it's so hard to keep intelligent people in office.

    It's called complex thinking. It's called believing in something. It's called being able to understand it's not all-or-nothing.


    Kudos to Obama. Personally, I'd rather not see prayers in an inauguration. But I love that the man is willing to accept that there are different viewpoints out there, and work with them to help make positive change happen.
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  • A_la_Nap-turalA_la_Nap-tural Posts: 409Registered Users
    Yes, he is a politician. A christian one. Being so, I think it's quite appropriate to have someone pray over you and your administration,

    That should be done in private. Keep your religion out of my gov't.

    I'd like to be able to say keep your gov't out of my religion, but it doesn't work as well.... Closet Christian it is!:disgust:
    www.thenaturalknowitall.com

    www.mixology101.ning.com
    I'm luvin' my natural self FIRST! :love7:

    "And if you don't want to be down with me, you don't want to pick from my appletree."-Erykah Badu


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  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Curl Connoisseur Posts: 31,259Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    NetG wrote: »
    I say this as a non-Christian...

    The type of thinking leading to this thread is why it's so hard to keep intelligent people in office.

    It's called complex thinking. It's called believing in something. It's called being able to understand it's not all-or-nothing.


    Kudos to Obama. Personally, I'd rather not see prayers in an inauguration. But I love that the man is willing to accept that there are different viewpoints out there, and work with them to help make positive change happen.



    If Warren had made similar statements that other groups should be denied civil rights...say blacks or women or jews...he would be deemed completely unacceptable to have a prominant place in an inauguration ceremony. But, because he said it about gays, that's OK with a lot of people. It's not OK with me. A bigot is a bigot is a bigot. Obama can "work" with Warren however he likes, and that would still be upholding his campaign promises...but he just HONORED Warren and condoned Warren's bigoted stand, and I don't think that's right.
  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Curl Connoisseur Posts: 31,259Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Yes, he is a politician. A christian one. Being so, I think it's quite appropriate to have someone pray over you and your administration,

    That should be done in private. Keep your religion out of my gov't.

    I'd like to be able to say keep your gov't out of my religion, but it doesn't work as well.... Closet Christian it is!:disgust:


    There are a lot of countries that integrate religion into their governments. Feel free to seek one of them out if you feel that strongly. The USA was founded on separation of church and state.
  • misspammisspam Posts: 5,318Registered Users

    That should be done in private. Keep your religion out of my gov't.

    I'd like to be able to say keep your gov't out of my religion, but it doesn't work as well.... Closet Christian it is!:disgust:


    There are a lot of countries that integrate religion into their governments. Feel free to seek one of them out if you feel that strongly. The USA was founded on separation of church and state.

    The USA was also founded on freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Curl Connoisseur Posts: 31,259Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    misspam wrote: »

    I'd like to be able to say keep your gov't out of my religion, but it doesn't work as well.... Closet Christian it is!:disgust:


    There are a lot of countries that integrate religion into their governments. Feel free to seek one of them out if you feel that strongly. The USA was founded on separation of church and state.

    The USA was also founded on freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.



    Yeah, that's the common comment that religious folks who want to inject their own religion into the gov't like to throw around.

    Here's the flaw in your thinking...if "freedom of religion" is going to apply to everyone, then you have to include "freedom from religion". Why is that? Because you do not truly have the freedom to practice your own religious beliefs if you are also required to adhere to any of the religious beliefs or rules of other religions.
  • A_la_Nap-turalA_la_Nap-tural Posts: 409Registered Users
    There are a lot of countries that integrate religion into their governments. Feel free to seek one of them out if you feel that strongly. The USA was founded on separation of church and state.

    Um... I was being more sarcastic than anything in that last comment. I LOVE my country. I would like to say however, that at my last job there was a group of us who would go down into the lobby meeting room and pray every Monday morning. We were very discreet, we didn't make a big showing of it, we just would get up at the agreed time and quietly go down to the lobby to pray together. We were forced to stop. HR found out (not like we were hiding it) and complained that some may find prayer in the workplace (or in our case, prayer in the meeting room of the lobby) inappropriate and offensive, even though not one person complained about our prayer group. And our office was very diverse in faith. In NYC, churches are no longer allowed to visit homeless shelters for the same reason: don't want to offend anybody while trying to encourage others huh? It seems to me that religion, specifically Christianity, is being pushed out of everywhere as to not "offend" someone. It's not like Obama's asking you to pray with him. Do like MicheleBFT, go to the bathroom.
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  • curlyjenn10curlyjenn10 Posts: 2,034Registered Users
    I don't see what the big deal is. Religious views are not affecting anything in the government and its policies. If Obama wants to have someone there to say something at his ceremony, I don't have a problem with it. That would go for anyone, regardless of whether they were affiliated with any religion or not.

    I do find it amusing that the honeymoon is seemingly over for many. I'm pleasantly surprised with the direction his transition has taken over the past few months (minus the Hillary appt of course).
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  • journotravelerjournotraveler Posts: 2,816Registered Users
    I don't see what the big deal is. Religious views are not affecting anything in the government and its policies. If Obama wants to have someone there to say something at his ceremony, I don't have a problem with it. That would go for anyone, regardless of whether they were affiliated with any religion or not.

    I do find it amusing that the honeymoon is seemingly over for many. I'm pleasantly surprised with the direction his transition has taken over the past few months (minus the Hillary appt of course).

    i don't agree with obama picking rick warren, either. but that doesn't mean that i'm not completely thrilled that he's our president-elect. i am thrilled. still, i never expected to be jumping for joy at every decision that he makes, and will make, over the next four--and hopefully eight--years. it's naive to think otherwise.

    i am pleased that rev. joseph lowry, a civil rights pioneer, will be giving the benediction. and i'm really happy that elizabeth alexander will be reading her poem, too. she's a fabulous poet.
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  • BBBB Posts: 475Registered Users
    I do find it amusing that the honeymoon is seemingly over for many. I'm pleasantly surprised with the direction his transition has taken over the past few months (minus the Hillary appt of course).

    I supported Obama and am still thrilled he was elected but it did worry me that so many people had unrealistic expectations on what he would be able to do. I do wish people would trust the decisions he is making and why he is making them. I agree that you do have to reach out to people you disagree with. It is the only way you can make progress.

    He isn't even PRESIDENT yet ... it's kinda crazy.

    I say this as a non-Christian...

    The type of thinking leading to this thread is why it's so hard to keep intelligent people in office.

    It's called complex thinking. It's called believing in something. It's called being able to understand it's not all-or-nothing.


    Kudos to Obama. Personally, I'd rather not see prayers in an inauguration. But I love that the man is willing to accept that there are different viewpoints out there, and work with them to help make positive change happen.

    KUDOS!
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  • legendslegends Posts: 3,073Registered Users
    In a news conference Thursday, Obama said he is a "fierce advocate for equality for gay and lesbian Americans." But he said he will build relationships with people of opposing views, and wants his inaugural to reflect that goal.
    Except, he's against gay marriage, which means he's full of **** about the "fierce advocate" thing. Sometimes it really does have to be all or nothing unless you're ok with separate-but-equal laws. Considering opposing views is great, gods know eight years of the exact opposite hasn't done us any favors, but go too far with that and you're catering to people who shouldn't be catered to.

    I don't regret voting for Obama, since a republican would have been much worse, but so for he's doing exactly what I expected of him. Democrats ALWAYS kow-tow to conservatives on social issues.
    Eres o te haces?
  • SarcasmIsBeautySarcasmIsBeauty Posts: 5,640Registered Users
    I don't see what the big deal is. Religious views are not affecting anything in the government and its policies.

    I definitely think that is a false statement right there.
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  • curlyjenn10curlyjenn10 Posts: 2,034Registered Users
    I don't see what the big deal is. Religious views are not affecting anything in the government and its policies.

    I definitely think that is a false statement right there.

    Whoa, sorry, you're right. That is not what I meant to write. I meant to say that Obama's inclusion of his religious views in his inauguration ceremony isn't affecting anything in government and its policies.
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  • OBBOBB Curl Neophyte Posts: 4,174Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    i dont like the choice but i think hes trying to expand his appeal/inflence across the aisle.
  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Curl Connoisseur Posts: 31,259Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    legends wrote: »
    In a news conference Thursday, Obama said he is a "fierce advocate for equality for gay and lesbian Americans." But he said he will build relationships with people of opposing views, and wants his inaugural to reflect that goal.
    Except, he's against gay marriage, which means he's full of **** about the "fierce advocate" thing. Sometimes it really does have to be all or nothing unless you're ok with separate-but-equal laws. Considering opposing views is great, gods know eight years of the exact opposite hasn't done us any favors, but go too far with that and you're catering to people who shouldn't be catered to.

    I don't regret voting for Obama, since a republican would have been much worse, but so for he's doing exactly what I expected of him. Democrats ALWAYS kow-tow to conservatives on social issues.


    True...Dems do always pander to the religious right, hoping to get them on their side (which is a useless endeavor, because the RR will never throw in with the evil liberals). At this point, even with the uprising in the pro-gay community, since Obama hasn't rescinded the invite to the hate-mongering Warren, I'm assuming he intends to go through with it. I'm sure Obama's counting on the tolerance that tends to be built-in to the typical Dem base and that he'll be forgiven...eventually.
  • JLeighsJLeighs Curl Novice Posts: 904Registered Users Curl Novice
    That should be done in private. Keep your religion out of my gov't.

    If you want to keep religion out of government, then the first thing you don't do is vote for someone who professes to be religious. You can't have it both ways. You can't vote a professed Christian into office and then complain that he's bringing religion into your government.
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