Low amounts of protein still cause overload?

shishacurlsshishacurls Posts: 88Registered Users
Hey everyone, question...

Can using a product that has a protein in it but it is far down on the ingredient list, like second to last ingredient, still cause protein overload?

I had bought a shampoo and noticed that it has amino acids listed in the ingredients list but it's the second to last ingredient. Could I still get protein overload from it if I use it everyday? I also bought a conditioner that has quinoa protein listed as the second to last ingredient as well. Should I still be careful with these products?

Comments

  • curlisue1curlisue1 Posts: 494Registered Users Curl Novice
    Maybe. Depends on your sensitivity to protein and your moisture balance. All you can do is try the products and keep an eye on your hair. If if starts to feel like it's drying out then maybe it's too much and you'll have to adjust.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
  • MamaJTBMamaJTB Posts: 27Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Curl Novice
    It could be a problem and has been for me.  It’s all trial and error.  Sometimes, I’ll get my hair in good shape, then try to conservatively add a little tiny bit of protein and see what happens.  Sometimes I’m good, sometimes I’m not, sometimes I’m good then bad after a couple of weeks - so annoying!!  Try looking for any patterns, like the type of proteins in products you’ve reacted the worst to.  For me, my worst reactions all had rice protein so now I won’t touch anything with any amount of it. GL!
    2C/3A, low porosity, thin density, color treated, protein sensitive
  • WavynewbieWavynewbie Posts: 9Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Curl Neophyte
    Hello! I'm new to the curly nv world
    ..6 weeks doing CGM. My waves_curls look great when I first give it protein! But after a day  my hair feels dry. Looking for ways to include small amounts of protein into daily routine for refreshing 
    ... thoughts??
  • Guide 65Guide 65 Posts: 1,948Registered Users, Moderators Curl Virtuoso
    @Wavynewbie, welcome!  You could use a little conditioner with protein in your refresh - just mix a bit of conditioner with water in a spray bottle.  Or use a tiny bit of gel with protein after dampening your hair. 
    Formerly known as Janiegirl
    2B/2C, fine hair, low density, mixed porosity, protein loving hair
    Current products:
    Changing up my shampoos because I can't find one I like
    Deva Curl One Condition (original formula)
    Innersense I Create Volume
    Deva Curl Ultra Defining Gel
  • WavynewbieWavynewbie Posts: 9Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Curl Neophyte
    @Guide 65 thank you! I am going to try conditioner with protein paired with protein free products.  Have you ever tried LOC? I tried it earlier this week to help add back in the moisture.. big mistake! It made my hair so greasy and now Ia have trouble getting the oil out! I've clarified twice since then... followed conditioner and then leave in. Curls are limp and pretty sure I didn't get all the oil and protein out. Do you think I should continue to clarify and add in deep conditioner?  Gonna stay free from protein products for a couple more days and then try using a conditioner with smaller particles... like keratin?

    Also , any thoughts on ouidad? It makes my hair look amazing but it has silicones... I've heard they are water based and rinse out easily but my hair dresser recommended against using it. Thoughts?? I REALLY appreciate everyone on this board... such a great community!!
  • Therese1Therese1 Posts: 2,552Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    @Wavynewbie, did you clarify with a sulfate? Generally, when people's hair gets overloaded with oils, a sulfate is the best way to get it out.

    Also, protein will not come off with a clarifying shampoo (you had mentioned not getting all the protein out with the clarifying poo). Once attached to the hair shaft, protein will come off only through damage (e.g., flat ironing) or by wearing off. If you think you have protein overload on your hair, I would deep condition wtih a protein-free condish and then wait a week before trying more protein. IME, it usually takes a week or two to recover from protein overload.

    As far as the Ouidad products go, I'm hoping someone who is more chemistry minded than I will chime in. My understanding is that "water soluble" when referring to a silicone is in reference to *creating* the product: the silicone will dissolve in water when the product is created. But once it has been deposited on your hair, it might need a sulfate to come off. There might be more info on the Science-y Hair Blog about this. The Ouidad Water Works Clarifying Shampoo has a sulfate in it, which would remove silicone build-up, so Ouidad is OK with using silicones in its products.

    I have used the Ouidad products, and I think they are great for people whose hair is really dry. They were too moisturizing for my fine hair. My hair also gets weighed down by silicones and polyquats, and the latter are extremely difficult for me to get off my hair. So I don't use the Ouidad line anymore. When I did use it, my favorites were the Texture Taffy and the Tress Effects gel.
    Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonic; Oribe Cleansing Creme
    RO: IN Harmonic
    LI: CJ Beauticurls; Jessicurl (JC) Gelebration Spray
    DC: JC Deep Conditioning Treatment; Weleda Rosemary Conditioning Oil
    Stylers: JC Confident Coils; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray; John Masters Sea Mist; Bumble Bb. Gel; Kenra Firm-Hold Gel; Sevi Blue Yarrow Sea Salt Spray
    Low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair
  • Guide 65Guide 65 Posts: 1,948Registered Users, Moderators Curl Virtuoso
    Why are you avoiding proteins?  I think the internet makes a really big deal about them, but most people need at least a little protein for optimal hair, and some people need a lot.  There are those who truly are sensitive to protein and need to avoid it, then newbies hear about that and think all their problems are due to protein and avoid it all, which leads to more problems, which leads to more chatter about protein.  Unless you KNOW your hair is protein sensitive, you shouldn't worry about it.
    Formerly known as Janiegirl
    2B/2C, fine hair, low density, mixed porosity, protein loving hair
    Current products:
    Changing up my shampoos because I can't find one I like
    Deva Curl One Condition (original formula)
    Innersense I Create Volume
    Deva Curl Ultra Defining Gel
  • WavynewbieWavynewbie Posts: 9Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Curl Neophyte
    Thank you to everyone for responding!! Its so great to have this forum available for chats like this! @Guide 65.....I've noticed when I use devacurl with wheat protein my hair LOOKS great- full with nice curls- but aftrt a day or si it gets very dry and hard.  Tried to correct witjLOC but that left my hair flat and greasy,  and unable to get a cast. 

    Now I'm wondering if I have hygral hair...its limp, flat, and feels yucky! Recently did ACV rinse followed by protein deep cond.but still kept protein out of styling products. 

    I think the wheat is too much for my hair? And am considering trying a rinse out cond. With keratin. 

    Does any of this make sense??😫😆
  • WavynewbieWavynewbie Posts: 9Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Curl Neophyte
    Here's what my hair looked like today😧 the 2nd pic was about a month ago with devacurl products 
  • Guide 65Guide 65 Posts: 1,948Registered Users, Moderators Curl Virtuoso
    Cute hair!  The problem you had with Deva might have been due to some other ingredient in it.  Flat and limp sounds like you need more protein.  Try the conditioner with keratin and see if it improves.
    Formerly known as Janiegirl
    2B/2C, fine hair, low density, mixed porosity, protein loving hair
    Current products:
    Changing up my shampoos because I can't find one I like
    Deva Curl One Condition (original formula)
    Innersense I Create Volume
    Deva Curl Ultra Defining Gel
  • WavynewbieWavynewbie Posts: 9Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Curl Neophyte
    Hello Guide 65! Thanks!! Just this morning I used Curl Junkie Beautiful Conditioner. It has smaller proteins in it...I left it in for a few minutes then rinsed. All other products were protein free. My hair has definitely improved with just today's washing/conditioning! Fuller and curls are better :smiley: Still feels a bit hard. Going to try using small amount of kertain and/or silk protein. (Used  moptop custard to refresh the other day and it make my hair soft). 

    Any ideas what else I could be reacting to in the Deva Curl products?  I've liked the results each time I use them but they mostly have wheat protein so I assumed it was too much protein for my hair....do you think I could use it on wash day and refresh with other protein free products??

    So many combinations (sigh) Lol!

  • tinksaysbootinksaysboo Posts: 541Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Curl Virtuoso
    @Wavynewbie ; - based on my hair and what I've seen in other's posts, it usually takes 1- 2 weeks for most people's hair to "calm down" after using an ingredient their hair hates.  This seems particularity true with protein.    When you try something new before your hair has had a chance to calm down, it makes it hard to say if the new product caused the better results or your hair has just "healed".

    I had a lot of course frizz when I first went CG.   Went online for advice and discovered my hair was better off when I cut out coconut oil and protein.   It was still frizzy so for months I was treating my hair for being dry and for breakage.    I have never stayed on the same product line up for more than 2-3 week so when that coarse frizz slowly started to  go away, I assumed I just finished transitioning.  Since my hair was in a good place moisture wise I decided to give co-washing a try again (I had switched to low poo by this point) and pulled out my NYMN Green conditioner.   That uncomfortable layer of coarse frizz was back!  This was so weird because I loved the DC in the line and RO had no unique ingredients.

    Did some thinking. When I stopped co-washing I was switching back and forth between the NYMN Green Deep Conditioner & Deva's Heaven in Hair. I use to think Deva left my hair only slightly better but it was more than twice the cost AND NYMN is always on sale at Ulta for buy 1 get 1 free.  I realized that my "hit it's stride" after I had used up a tub of Deva DC (~1 month) and had started using a Curl Junkie deep conditioner.  That's when it hit me, my hair hates green tea!  It's the one unique ingredient in those products that are in no other product I've used on the journey.  Heaven in Hair only ever seemed "slightly better" because it was competing with healing hair!   Stopped using the conditioner, in two weeks my hair was back.    Used some of the DC I still had to confirm, and sure enough the frizz was back.  Clarifying has never helped, only giving it time. 


    tl;dr : If you are concerned about protein, I suggest a protein free hair diet for two weeks before introducing a single protein to your routine.  If your hair freaks out, give it time to get to its no protein state before trying a different protein. 
    2c/3a | low porosity | fine/medium | low/medium density| protein,coconut, and green tea sensitive | Modified CGM

    Low-Poo:  Jessicurl Hair Cleansing Cream
    Sulfate Wash: Aveda Rosemary Mint Purifying Shampoo
    Rinse Out Conditioner: DevalCurl One Condition
    Leave-In Conditioner: Curl Junkie Smoothing Lotion
    Deep Conditioner: DevaCurl Heaven In Hair
    Curl Enhancer: Curl Junkie Spiral Lotion
    Gel: Jessicurl Spiralicious Gel
  • WavynewbieWavynewbie Posts: 9Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Curl Neophyte
    @tinksaysboo ....Thanks for sharing your personal experiences! I am learning to become more patient and to try one product at a time...the scientific method works for a reason, right?? Changing one variable at a time :-)

    so after using CJ Beatifulcurls conditioner my hair is softer, less frizzy but my curls like like 2A curls....I definitely have stronger curls than that. So, I decide I need more protein. I rinsed, conditioned with devacurl's One Condition, used AsIAm Leave in and used a small amount of moptop custard (silk protein). Curls were better, hair was still soft, but my curls were in need of more structure/support.  This morning I used DevaCurl's super cream (hydorlized jojoba and wheat protein, but further down the ingredient list) and DC frizz-free foam (No PT). The only product I added that was new since the past two weeks was the super cream. My  hair is definitely on the mend! My hair is still soft, curls are bigger, but flatter than it has been in the past. Still some frizz...but I'll take it for now!

    Thank you so much for you all your advice and examples....This is so very helpful!!!
     <3 

  • WavynewbieWavynewbie Posts: 9Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Curl Neophyte
    Hello and happy Friday!

    Ok, so...question about protein/conditioning masks....Instead of using just a DC treatment, which leaves my hair feeling great, but then it lacks volume and definition (just kinda flat), I started to think I need a treatment that does a little bit of both. Yesterday I used Blueberry Bliss reparative  treatment mask. The directions say to leave on for 15 minutes or longer for a deeper treatment. I planned on leaving on for 5 - I know, I'm being overly cautious! 
    When I put it in my hair I could feel my hair stiffen up immediately. So, I quickly mixed in some Eden DC to soften it, left it in for about 5 minutes then rinsed. I followed with One Condition (deva curl) and some KKLI afterwards. My hair feels soft, but the ends still feel dry, hair is flat, but has some good movement to it. Oh, for products JC rockin ringlets + Spiralicious today ( rakewetscrunch) - all protein free.
    - I don't think the product application worked for me, and I need more hold...but my main question is....When I do a protein treatment, should I expect for my hair to feel still while it's in? Did I panic too soon??

    Oh.. the only protein BB mask has is hydrolyzed soy protein and it's pretty far down the list....thoughts?
      @Guide 65 ....you are right about NOT avoiding proteins! I figured that out :smile: but I also think  I figured out my hair is kinda sensitive to it...haven't tried the keratin yet but I will!


  • CurlyLiliCurlyLili Posts: 69Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Curl Connoisseur
    There is no such thing as protein sensitivity. Our hair is made of protein. There is also no such thing as "protein overload". There is however moisture deficiency, and protein deficiency.
    There is also a thing called product buildup, which prevents moisture from penetrating and is a result of using non-water soluble products (that are unfortunately very popular e.g. SheaMoisture, Cantu, Suave, V05,...). This is what people are experiencing in most cases, and are thinking they have "protein overload", when in fact they have moisture deficiency.
    If you are interested in the subject, professionals from Deva, Ouidad, Curlisto, RawCurls,.. all agree on the "protein fake news". You can look up interviews with them on the YT Curly Q&A channel. This is also a great webinar with a trichologist Dr. Walker: 

    Type: 3a/3b
    Hair strand thickness: medium/coarse
    Density: thick
    Porosity: low at roots/normal mid-shaft/high at ends
    Sensitivity to protein: no

    Cleanse: DC Low-poo
    Clarify: Build up buster, Malibu-C Un do goo
    DT: DC Melt into moisture, Curly Hair Solutions Pure Silk Protein Treatment, occasional fermented rice water
    Condition: DC One Condition Original and One Condition Decadence
    Style: DC ArcAngel, DC UDG, Curl Keeper Original, Jessicurl Confident coils, Spiralicious, Deva B'leave in


  • Guide 65Guide 65 Posts: 1,948Registered Users, Moderators Curl Virtuoso
    When I apply a protein treatment, I do sometimes feel an immediate stiffening of my hair.  And sometimes I don't feel it until I rinse it out, and then again sometimes I don't feel a difference at all.  I figure when I don't get that stiffening, it means my hair doesn't need the protein and it all just rinses off.

    For me, I WANT that stiffening, because my hair is normally so soft and silky and fly-away and it won't hold any curl.  The stiffened hair has more body and volume.  The curls last longer (I still need a good gel though).  It does not FEEL as nice as the soft, silky hair.  But it sure does look and act better! 

    I agree with @CurlyLili.  The video she links goes into depth about protein.  Your hair needs both protein and moisture.  If you get too much of one or the other, the balance is off.  I would suggest trying the protein treatment again, then rinse it out and use the moisture only treatment next.  Depending on how your hair feels, you can leave one or the other on for a longer time - you might want 5 minutes with the protein treatment and 15 minutes with the moisture treatment.  You could also just apply the protein treatment and immediately rinse, then follow with the moisture treatment for a longer time.  Also keep in mind that a single treatment isn't going to cure all the problems.  You may need to continue on an ongoing basis to get your hair into tip top condition.

    Besides all the science, just go by how your hair looks and acts.  Some people do perfectly fine with almost no protein at all, and they like the way their hair looks and acts.  If you have problems though, you'll need to experiment to find what works for you.  Just remember - if you use something with protein and your hair gets tangled and too stiff, try ADDING MOISTURE instead of cutting out protein.
    Formerly known as Janiegirl
    2B/2C, fine hair, low density, mixed porosity, protein loving hair
    Current products:
    Changing up my shampoos because I can't find one I like
    Deva Curl One Condition (original formula)
    Innersense I Create Volume
    Deva Curl Ultra Defining Gel

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