Fine 2c/3a, da struggle

heidichu · June 2015

Hello!

I'm cross posting from board 3, apologies if this is against the rules, I didn't see any mention in the FAQ.

While I did receive some good advice about taking my time with the products, and to some extent, will be starting from scratch, I still have questions that maybe some other fine wavies may be able to help out with.

I have low porosity, fine width, fine-med density, 2b/2c/3a hair. I live in an area (Florida) with hard water and consistently high dews year round. I'm pretty overwhelmed with product options at the moment. I understand for many of us taking care of our locks and finding a reliable routine is a work in progress, but I'm all but fizzled out at this point. :goofy:

My current routine is Shea Moisture C&H followed by GVP CB plus whatever stylers I am experimenting with, including: KCNT, KCCC, AG: RECOIL, BRHG, BCC, FSG.

I clarify once a month due to the hard water, most often using Joico K pak clarifying

Water/Aqua/Eau, Sodium Laureth Sulfate, Cocamide MEA, Glycol Stearate, Cetyl Alcohol, Cocambopropyl Betaine, Stearic Acid, hydrolyzed Hair Keratin, Laurdimonium Hodroxypropyl Hydrolyzed Hair Keratin, Hydrolyzed Keratin PG-Propyl Methylsilanediol, Thioctic Acid, Butyl Methoxydibenzoylmethane, Psidium Guajava Fruit Extract, Sodium Ascorbyl Phosphate, Tocopheryl Acetate, Oenothera Biennis (Evening Primrose) Oil, Aleurites Moluccana Seed oil, Glycolipids, Hyaluronic Acid, Allantoin, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice, Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein, Dimethicone PEG-7 Cocoate, Hydroxyethycellulose, Acrylates/Aminoacrylates/c10-30 Alkyl PEG-20 Itaconate Copolymer, Pentasodium Pentetate, Benzophenone-4, Glycerin, Hydrolyzed Wheat Starch, Citric Acid, Sodium Chloride, Aminomethyl Propanol, DMDM Hydantoin, Methychloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Fragrance/Parfum.

Before I was using Elucence Clarifying Volume Shampoo, but I didn't feel it was clarifying enough. Does this formulation seem too harsh to use in conjunction with the CG method?

As far as protein is concerned, I don't know whether or not my hair favors it. I did a treatment using GVP's reconstructor followed by it's a 10 leave in lite and a small amount of KCCC and my hair became very soft, straighter and wispy. I don't know whether to attribute this to the protein or the stylers. I read about different types of protein on the sciency-hair-blog, but it just confused me more. Anyone care to weigh in?

Essentially, I'm trying to find an effective wash-n-go routine that I can be happy with. Due to my schedule, I can only air dry. I can't sleep with wet hair because 1. I wake up with serious bedhead and 2. I almost always wake with a killer migraine.

1st & 2nd pictures: Yes To Cucumbers to wash, GVP CB rinsed out, then FSG with Boots CC raked into sopping wet hair then scrunched followed by Pantene Spray gel and left to air dry. My hair did look dryer than usual on this routine, but I liked the definition. I almost prefer my hair a little on the frizzy side, it gives me more volume.

3rd picture: Taken a week after an underwhelming deva cut, where I lost much more length than I would've liked. I had just clarified using Joico Kpak, GVP CB as a RO, FSG + BRHG to style and air dried for 2 hours. I also used deva clips to add some volume, but I must've done something wrong because it looks wonky and frizzy in certain places.

My most recent style using KCNT + KCCC + BRHG left my hair limp. My usually 2c curls looked more like 2b. I only used a pea sized amount of KCNT, about the same amount of KCCC, and roughly a dollar sized amount of BRHG. I take care to use small amounts so as not to over saturate my hair, but it seems like any time I use BRHG it clumps and warps my curls in a weird way. Then again it could be over-moisturization. Any ideas?

I'm just overwhelmed with product combos, trial and error. :confused2: I'm looking to start over. I might alternate between Elucence and the Shea Moisture Line, but as far as styling products go, I'm struggling to find a combination that I can rely on.

Any and all help is appreciated!!! :thumright:

MichelleSkip · June 2015

I really hope someone helps you as I'm having the exact same issues!! and have v similar hair to you. SO many products. Much confuse

kathymack · June 2015

How did you determine your hair is low porosity? I ask this because many people use the float test, which is notoriously unreliable. Dry time is a better indicator. Naked hair air drying--less then 2 hours would be porous, 6+ hours would be low and in between is normal.

I ask this because you're using the SM C & H. My hair just couldn't absorb it. The good thing is that it washed out easily.

I wet, use a rinse out and style every day. First off, I use curl towels to scrunch out water (after styling on soaking wet hair) and then diffuse with a professional dryer. Air dry the rest of the way. This cuts drying time to 2 or 3 hours for me.

Here's an article by Curl Chemist on hard water and preventing/removing it: How to Prevent Hair Build Up from Hard Water I've looked at your shampoo ingredients and I don't recognize a chelating agent.

chupie · June 2015

I'm not fine but a few things, SM products are often just too much for wavies. They weigh down hair and lay on it. Making everything else ineffective. KCKT really is great for tangles, but I wouldn't use as leave in as it also limps out your hair. KCCC is very tricky. I can't use it. Always made my hair stringy and took forever to dry. Camille Rose Curlmaker is like a lighter, less persnickity version that really works for me and other wavies. It's a 10 just completely strings out my hair. I think maybe if that was all you used maybe it would be ok. I admit I haven't tried the "lite" but try leaving it out and see if there is a different. Cut your BRHG with water in your hands. It still works and is not as heavy. If you feel your clarifyer. is too strong, cut it with water. I use a full sulfate clarifying poo, about 2 teaspoons to 4 oz water. Works fine, not too harsh and you can actually add in some of your conditioner as well.

Wavies sometimes do better to use a mousse under BRHG. I particularly love Oscar Blandi Hair lifting mousse and ORrbe Curl Shaping mousse (this is not CG as has some Amodimethicone type silicones in it but they won't bother you if you clarify some.) I also can't recommend Oribe Curl Gloss enough IF you can afford it. I got it through Birchbox with my points but I will consider purchasing it out right. Serum type gel, light but man it defines and shines and IS silicone free. I'm dying to try the Curl Creme.

Another possibility is sometimes two medium type hold products beat out BRHG for volume and touchability. You may not get the same definition or all day hold but some do and it's worth experimenting with.

heidichu · June 2015

kathymack wrote: »

How did you determine your hair is low porosity? I ask this because many people use the float test, which is notoriously unreliable. Dry time is a better indicator. Naked hair air drying--less then 2 hours would be porous, 6+ hours would be low and in between is normal.

I determined porosity based on how well my hair absorbs product. Most creams and oils just sit on my hair making it look greasy. I also considered drying time, though admittedly not as much. With BRHG it takes over 4 hours. With hair scrunched out with a microfiber towel and some mousse it's more like 3. Without any product it may be even less.

As for chelating, thanks for the article, I do still have the Elucence Volume Clarifying shampoo, and just used it yesterday to clarify. Does the Joico shampoo not do the same thing? I know it was originally marketed as a chelating shampoo, though they changed the formula and name. So I should be looking for EDTA, acetic or citric acid specifically in formulations?

heidichu · June 2015

chupie wrote: »

I'm not fine but a few things, SM products are often just too much for wavies. They weigh down hair and lay on it. Making everything else ineffective. KCKT really is great for tangles, but I wouldn't use as leave in as it also limps out your hair. KCCC is very tricky. I can't use it. Always made my hair stringy and took forever to dry. Camille Rose Curlmaker is like a lighter, less persnickity version that really works for me and other wavies. It's a 10 just completely strings out my hair. I think maybe if that was all you used maybe it would be ok. I admit I haven't tried the "lite" but try leaving it out and see if there is a different. Cut your BRHG with water in your hands. It still works and is not as heavy. If you feel your clarifyer. is too strong, cut it with water. I use a full sulfate clarifying poo, about 2 teaspoons to 4 oz water. Works fine, not too harsh and you can actually add in some of your conditioner as well.

Wavies sometimes do better to use a mousse under BRHG. I particularly love Oscar Blandi Hair lifting mousse and ORrbe Curl Shaping mousse (this is not CG as has some Amodimethicone type silicones in it but they won't bother you if you clarify some.) I also can't recommend Oribe Curl Gloss enough IF you can afford it. I got it through Birchbox with my points but I will consider purchasing it out right. Serum type gel, light but man it defines and shines and IS silicone free. I'm dying to try the Curl Creme.

Another possibility is sometimes two medium type hold products beat out BRHG for volume and touchability. You may not get the same definition or all day hold but some do and it's worth experimenting with.

Thanks for all this great info! Oribe is super ritzy and I would love to try it, know of anywhere online I could purchase a sample before committing? I have soooo many products already, and still looking for more :laughing6:

chupie · June 2015

heidichu wrote: »

chupie wrote: »

I'm not fine but a few things, SM products are often just too much for wavies. They weigh down hair and lay on it. Making everything else ineffective. KCKT really is great for tangles, but I wouldn't use as leave in as it also limps out your hair. KCCC is very tricky. I can't use it. Always made my hair stringy and took forever to dry. Camille Rose Curlmaker is like a lighter, less persnickity version that really works for me and other wavies. It's a 10 just completely strings out my hair. I think maybe if that was all you used maybe it would be ok. I admit I haven't tried the "lite" but try leaving it out and see if there is a different. Cut your BRHG with water in your hands. It still works and is not as heavy. If you feel your clarifyer. is too strong, cut it with water. I use a full sulfate clarifying poo, about 2 teaspoons to 4 oz water. Works fine, not too harsh and you can actually add in some of your conditioner as well.

Wavies sometimes do better to use a mousse under BRHG. I particularly love Oscar Blandi Hair lifting mousse and ORrbe Curl Shaping mousse (this is not CG as has some Amodimethicone type silicones in it but they won't bother you if you clarify some.) I also can't recommend Oribe Curl Gloss enough IF you can afford it. I got it through Birchbox with my points but I will consider purchasing it out right. Serum type gel, light but man it defines and shines and IS silicone free. I'm dying to try the Curl Creme.

Another possibility is sometimes two medium type hold products beat out BRHG for volume and touchability. You may not get the same definition or all day hold but some do and it's worth experimenting with.

Thanks for all this great info! Oribe is super ritzy and I would love to try it, know of anywhere online I could purchase a sample before committing? I have soooo many products already, and still looking for more :laughing6:

Gosh, Birchbox has travel size of some things. Sadly I do not know if they have travel size of the mousse or the Curl Gloss. I know there is a giveaway day here on NC coming up that will have a package that includes the Curl Gloss. Yeah. It is ritzy but I've now tried enough to know, it's used by stylists for magazines and Hollywood for a reason. It's nice stuff.

Corrina777 · June 2015

From what you have described, your hair is very similar to mine (my hair is 2c/3a, fine texture, normal porosity and elasticity). I also aim for super streamlined hair styling and air dry almost every time. FWIW, my hair didn't like Shea Moisture at all.

More than likely, your hair will respond well to protein. I have yet to use too much protein in my hair, and trust me, I really tried. I also find that I seem to do better with medium to hard hold gels rather than uber mega hard hold (I gave away my BRHG years ago). Not sure what your budget is, but my current favorites are CJ Curl Queen and Ouidad Climate Control (this is a summer HG for me, even with the new formula). During warmer months I'll also sometimes just use more leave-in conditioner than normal (a pretty generous amount) and top with a serum like CHS Curl Keeper or CJ Curls in a Bottle. Curls are softer (more wavy than curly), but well defined, soft, shiny and with minimal frizz. It also dries noticeably quicker than with regular gel.

marls · June 2015

Chupie, you hit the nail right on the head. I've struggled to like SM, and I kept wondering why, especially since everyone raves about it. I have 2b med/high porosity hair. I feel like SM just sits on my hair. It almost feels like a waxy layer. BRHG was too drying for me. I liked spiral solutions, sold on etsy. Flaxseed gel has worked well for me as well , but I'm too lazy to make it and store it.

AngelaE8654 · June 2015

I use Shea Moisture as a Rinse Out. I don't like the way it feels in my hair if I don't, perhaps it "just sits on my hair". But it feels gross if I use it any other way but I am having great results using it as a Rinse Out Conditioner.

heidichu · June 2015

AngelaE8654 wrote: »

I use Shea Moisture as a Rinse Out. I don't like the way it feels in my hair if I don't, perhaps it "just sits on my hair". But it feels gross if I use it any other way but I am having great results using it as a Rinse Out Conditioner.

I've had bad experiences with SM conditioners before, but I didn't expect any trouble with the C&H shampoo, since I was rinsing it all out before applying a separate conditioner. After my last wash, I did notice my scalp became oily in a day as opposed to 2-3 days with other shampoos I've used.

Guess SM is just not compatible with my hair. Which sucks because I just bought some bottles of Yucca & Baobab (not plantain

) to see if I can breathe a little volume into my roots and strengthen my hair some. I'll still try it out, we'll see :l

heidichu · June 2015

Corrina777 wrote: »

From what you have described, your hair is very similar to mine (my hair is 2c/3a, fine texture, normal porosity and elasticity). I also aim for super streamlined hair styling and air dry almost every time. FWIW, my hair didn't like Shea Moisture at all.

More than likely, your hair will respond well to protein. I have yet to use too much protein in my hair, and trust me, I really tried. I also find that I seem to do better with medium to hard hold gels rather than uber mega hard hold (I gave away my BRHG years ago). Not sure what your budget is, but my current favorites are CJ Curl Queen and Ouidad Climate Control (this is a summer HG for me, even with the new formula). During warmer months I'll also sometimes just use more leave-in conditioner than normal (a pretty generous amount) and top with a serum like CHS Curl Keeper or CJ Curls in a Bottle. Curls are softer (more wavy than curly), but well defined, soft, shiny and with minimal frizz. It also dries noticeably quicker than with regular gel.

Thank you so much for this! I've heard from a few fine 2c/3a's that protein is a necessity. Do you keep to a specific type of protein, hydrolyzed vs keratin for example, or does it not matter?

Fine 2c/3a, da struggle

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