Dropping involvement due to hijacking of topic.

claudine191claudine191 Posts: 8,221Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
x
«1

Comments

  • PerriPPerriP Posts: 6,613Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Yes. I've known two people who were terminally ill and had made arrangements. (Neither of them live in the USA and I'm not sure of the legalities). In both cases, when they said they were ready to go they passed naturally before they were assisted. This tells me that we do know in cases like this when it's time to go. If I afford my animals the respect and care to help them not suffer, I expect to be able to make that choice for myself.

    I don't think I support it in cases that aren't terminal illness related.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using CurlTalk App
    Modified CG since Dec 2011
  • curlisue1curlisue1 Posts: 494Registered Users Curl Novice
    Yes. Alzheimer's runs in my family and eventually the person gets to the point where they can't communicate, walk, talk, feed themselves, etc.... There comes a point with this disease and others where there is no longer any quality of life and definitely no dignity either. I know that I don't want to live like that and don't want my loved ones to have to deal with that.

    Sent from my Moto X
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    In all reality, they might as well support it in the US. That is what hospitals and other agencies who provide support to the terminally ill do. They just load you up with enough drugs to slowly shut you down and call it comfort measures.

    I am back and forth with my opinion on this. I basically do support it but have that little part of me which screams NO! And I can't tell you why. I guess it is a deep seeded internal belief that no one should go before their time. I've seen suffering, and I have seen people ready and begging to go as well. That does change your opinion, but still argues with the belief.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    As Perri said, I could not support it in cases other than terminal illness. I think a good bit of criteria should be met. From my understanding Kevorkian was very good about throughly interviewing his clients/patients.

    I personally would have a very hard time making that decision for anyone (like you do with pets), in case something happened, unless it was written out or feelings were well known. I think it is a great thing for families to discuss life saving measures while they can so you know what is and is not wanted. No assisted suicide at this time, but people can make sure they are not resuscitated or no other life saving measures are taken by getting a DNR (aka No Code) order and having it on hand.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • BotticelliBritBotticelliBrit Posts: 2,075Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    With things like this, I just worry that the lines may be blurred. There are some evil people out there who might try to take advantage of something like that if it were legalised.

    And you have to wonder, where would you draw the line? curlisue1 mentioned people not being able to communicate, but then how would you know they would prefer to die? Lots of people would rather live, regardless. You might get some people trying to manipulate the system and lying that their relatives want to die.

    You could say that people can agree beforehand, 'if I ever get to this point, I would like for this to happen' but people can change their minds all the time.

    I just think it's a really tough area. Of course, if someone wants to die they should be able to die however they'd like. But in terms of 'offering' it as a service / legalising it, I just think there could be a lot of people who'd take advantage of something like that.
    3B. Med porosity. Med thickness. Med density.

    LP: Shea Moisture (currently JBCO)
    Conditioner/CW: Jason Aloe Vera

    LI: Aunt Jackie's Curls & Coils Quench
    Refreshing: TRESemmé Naturals Aloe Vera & Avocado
    Gel: DevaCurl Ultra Defining Gel
    DC:
    Aunt Jackie's Soft & Sassy Super Duper Softening Conditioner
    Treatments: Coconut oil/Coconut milk

    UK curly. CG since Oct 2013.
    Growing my hair to WL when dry :thumright:
  • claudine191claudine191 Posts: 8,221Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,898Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    If there's no brain and/or natural heart activity, OK. If it's a situation where two ppl would die instead of one (pregnancy or conjoined twins, etc.), OK possibly. Otherwise, no. That's "playing God" IMO.

  • jeepcurlygurljeepcurlygurl Posts: 20,721Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Curl Virtuoso
    I do support it and was a supporter of the Hemlock Society for decades and was also a Kevorkian supporter.
    --I'm located in Western PA.   --I found NC in late 2004, CG since February 2005, joined the forums in May 2005, started going grey in late 2005.   --My hair is 3B with some 3A, currently at mid back length when dry,  texture-medium/fine, porosity-top is low, middle is medium, ends are porous, elasticity-normal.   --My long time favorite products are Suave & VO5 conditioners, LA Looks Sport Gel, coconut oil, honey, vinegar.   
    --My CG and grey hair progress -  
    http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/going-gray/179328-jeepys-grey-hair-progress.html   
    --My article at NaturallyCurly about going grey - 
    https://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/color/how-i-went-completely-gray-and-loved-it
  • BluebloodBlueblood Posts: 1,748Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    With things like this, I just worry that the lines may be blurred. There are some evil people out there who might try to take advantage of something like that if it were legalised.
    It doesn't need to be legalised for people to be taken advantage of - Michael Swango - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and 'Doctor Death' Harold Frederick Shipman killed 250 patients - possibly more - earning him the distinction of Britain's most prolific serial killer - NY Daily News and
    Brazilian doctor Virginia Soares de Souza 'who played God' could have killed more than 300 patients to free up beds - Americas - World - The Independent
  • sixelamysixelamy Posts: 4,157Registered Users Curl Novice
    I have very mixed feelings on this topic. It's interesting to read the responses. I don't think I personally could make that decision, but I understand why people do.
    2c-3a - med-coarse - normal-high porosity - high density
    :bunny:
    NP/LP: CJ Daily Fix, KMF Whenever / Giovanni TTTT
    RO/LI: Aussie Moist, CJ Argan & Olive Oil, Hask Keratin Protein
    DC/PROTEIN: KC Stellar Strands / CNPF
    STYLER: CJ Curl Queen
    COLOR: henna, amla & indigo
    :thumbdown:: glycerin in high/low dews, polyquat-10 & 11, parabens
  • curlicious13curlicious13 Posts: 1,632Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I support it only in terminally ill patients. We do it with our pets with whom we consider a part of the family. So why not with our human family members? Here's where I draw the line. I'm a caregiver to my grandmother who at the present moment I can't stand. Her lies bother me & her insults hurt. (That woman is pure evil) There's isn't a day that goes by that I think about her passing away & feel a sense of peace & relief wash over me. If assisted suicide is legalized, it will give caregivers a way to kill the people they care for & claim it was assisted suicide.
  • curlicious13curlicious13 Posts: 1,632Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Quite frankly, I can't wait for her to pass.
  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,898Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    I support it only in terminally ill patients. We do it with our pets with whom we consider a part of the family. So why not with our human family members? Here's where I draw the line. I'm a caregiver to my grandmother who at the present moment I can't stand. Her lies bother me & her insults hurt. (That woman is pure evil) There's isn't a day that goes by that I think about her passing away & feel a sense of peace & relief wash over me. If assisted suicide is legalized, it will give caregivers a way to kill the people they care for & claim it was assisted suicide.

    There are religious reasons why some ppl feel that those are totally separate issues. Aside from that, IDK.

  • curlypearlcurlypearl Posts: 12,226Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I support it. I dread contracting some terrible disease that causes intractable pain and suffering. I'd rather die with dignity than some long, drawn out excruciating death.

    I've also seen terminally ill cancer patients begging to die and people suffering terribly with Parkinsons. I have a living will with very strong stipulations about not being kept alive under certain circumstances.

    I believe quality of life is extremely important.
    2/c Coarse hair med. density.
    Highly porous. Color over grey.
    I love all the Curl Junkie products. Still experimenting with gels and curl creams. Still hoping for 2nd day hair....
    Every day is a gift :flower:
  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,391Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    It should be legal and strictly regulated.
    Fifi.G wrote: »
    They just load you up with enough drugs to slowly shut you down and call it comfort measures.
    They only do that when the person has a few hours left to live, and those hours will consist of nothing but unimaginably extreme pain. At that point, an adequate dose of pain medication is no different from a lethal dose.
  • mrspoppersmrspoppers Posts: 7,223Registered Users Curl Novice
    It is legal in the US. Washington, Oregon, and Vermont currently have assisted suicide laws. I can't speak for VT, but it is highly regulated in WA and OR. It's not euthanasia and the drugs can't be requested by anyone but the patient. I was definitely in favor of this initiative passing.
    When are women going to face the fact that they don’t know their own bodies as well as men who have heard things?

    Don Langrick
    Bonsai Culturist
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Eilonwy wrote: »
    It should be legal and strictly regulated.
    Fifi.G wrote: »
    They just load you up with enough drugs to slowly shut you down and call it comfort measures.
    They only do that when the person has a few hours left to live, and those hours will consist of nothing but unimaginably extreme pain. At that point, an adequate dose of pain medication is no different from a lethal dose.

    I am aware. Just saying they help ease the person on. My grandfather spent his last few weeks in the hospital with comfort measure being taken. It wasn't hours. It was days, but he could have gone at any point (some do manage to hold on). He did at one point, and a couple of my Aunts freaked out and called the nurse. He was brought back and spent another week and a half with them arguing over giving him pain meds because it was killing him. *That would be when I flipped out, jerked the med control out of their hand, flew into a rage and pushed the button more times than I care to say (knowing I could not OD him, mind you. I was on a Demerol pump myself, but I was angry and on a mission) while calling them idiots* Bone cancer through out most of his body was killing him. The pain meds were easing and helping the process.

    His mouth was swollen 3x it's normal size, he had well over 100 canker sores in his mouth, his body was covered in bed sores, he was in horrific pain, and why in the hell they called the nurse is beyond me. I know, it's their dad, and they were not ready to let go but but there is no coming back from that. I was a patient in the hospital at that same time, which I could tell scared him to death. He couldn't talk but he jumped when he saw me and grabbed his heart. I kept wheeling my IV into his room, holding his hand, watching him point at the ceiling, and telling him to go. His eyes would get huge, like he was seeing the most wonderful thing ... Again, it's important to discuss this stuff with your family.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    mrspoppers wrote: »
    It is legal in the US. Washington, Oregon, and Vermont currently have assisted suicide laws. I can't speak for VT, but it is highly regulated in WA and OR. It's not euthanasia and the drugs can't be requested by anyone but the patient. I was definitely in favor of this initiative passing.

    Ah, I had no idea it was legal in a few states. The high regulation and patient only request rules are fantastic.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • curlypearlcurlypearl Posts: 12,226Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Fifi, I'm so sorry you went through that. I can empathize because I went through something similar. My mother was dying of cancer and had a sign over her bed prohibiting fluids but she was desperately thirsty and burning up from fever. She had lost the ability to speak or see. I asked her if she wanted water and she signaled yes. I gave her little sips and the nurse came in and was screaming at me to stop.

    I didn't stop and yelled back "she's my mother!" I didn't care if they arrested me. There was this big commotion and people kept yelling at me and I ignored them and I kept on giving her little sips of water and finally they left me alone.

    I grieved so terribly after she died (2 days later) but someone said to me that I had given her the last physical bit of comfort on this earth and that helped me feel a little better. Even if she had choked on the water and died on the spot - so what? She was dying anyway - why did she have to suffer like that? We had talked about it and she never wanted to be kept alive and suffer like that. I'm glad I stood up to those people who were bent on keeping her alive at any cost.
    2/c Coarse hair med. density.
    Highly porous. Color over grey.
    I love all the Curl Junkie products. Still experimenting with gels and curl creams. Still hoping for 2nd day hair....
    Every day is a gift :flower:
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I am sorry you went through that, CP. It is a terrible situation. I know they are bound to do everything by protocol (especially when a DNR is not in place) but... No one could have stopped me from doing exactly what you did. They suffer so much as it is. (((Many hugs))).

    PS- I am glad you did talk about it. Not the easiest thing to do. I partially want to shut down when my mom talks about what she wants, in case this happens or that happens. I know her fairly well. She's not like my dad. She has strong feelings against cremation. While she would not want prolonged life saving measures, she would never agree to assisted suicide if it were legal in NC. I need to really sit down and talk more with her about it. The way things happened with my dad were unusual. He had called several different people in the week before he suddenly died and told them what he wanted. He somehow knew it was coming. He had told me parts, but he told them everything. Same thing, time after time, person after person and he had a DNR. It was standard and needed paper work with his increasing kidney failure. He was approaching the treatment phase.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • curlypearlcurlypearl Posts: 12,226Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Thanks for the response Fifi. My mom actually had a DNR in place. It was so horrible.

    Thanks again. It was actually the anniversary of her death many years ago yesterday but I still miss her very much.
    2/c Coarse hair med. density.
    Highly porous. Color over grey.
    I love all the Curl Junkie products. Still experimenting with gels and curl creams. Still hoping for 2nd day hair....
    Every day is a gift :flower:
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    curlypearl wrote: »
    Thanks for the response Fifi. My mom actually had a DNR in place. It was so horrible.

    Thanks again. It was actually the anniversary of her death many years ago yesterday but I still miss her very much.

    Those moments do stay with you, but thankfully better memories do too. :( Sorry again, CP. I know you do miss her.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,898Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    On the flip side, I don't support keeping ppl alive by "extraordinary measures" either.

    (Is it awful if I say, especially not in the case of very old ppl?)

  • claudine191claudine191 Posts: 8,221Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
  • DedachanDedachan Posts: 1,644Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    It should be legal.

    I'm over the whole "playing God" argument. What does it even mean? God should not factor in any legal system of any secular state. If you believe only he can take your life, don't request assisted suicide for yourself should it ever come to that. But do not impose that belief on others.

    The idea of the sanctity of life was clearly intended to prevent murder. But to equate murder with assisted suicide is intellectually dishonest. I think everyone understands the difference at the most basic intuitive level.
  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,898Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    Dedachan wrote: »
    It should be legal.

    I'm over the whole "playing God" argument. What does it even mean? God should not factor in any legal system of any secular state. If you believe only he can take your life, don't request assisted suicide for yourself should it ever come to that. But do not impose that belief on others.

    The idea of the sanctity of life was clearly intended to prevent murder. But to equate murder with assisted suicide is intellectually dishonest. I think everyone understands the difference at the most basic intuitive level.

    Same as the abortion issue. We feel the way we feel. We can't support something we think is wrong. It's not intellectual and it's not intuitive for some of us.

  • claudine191claudine191 Posts: 8,221Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,898Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    Please do not turn this thread into a pro- or anti-choice debate. Thank you.

    That's essentially what it is.

  • claudine191claudine191 Posts: 8,221Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,898Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    This is not a thread about abortion.

    But it still comes down to being pro-LIFE or pro-CHOICE or whatever other labels you can put on the issue of who gets to say when someone dies and why.

    ETA - same issue (for some), just a different part of the life cycle.

This discussion has been closed.