CurlTalk

Deva Cuts vs Ouidad Cuts

I am curious..which is the better cut for curlies?

I myself am scheduled in Feb for a devacut at Beans Beauty in Wayne PA.

Just looking for more definition in my hair. I also would like to extended the time I go between cuts to save money so "grow out" is important.
Let me know your opinions fellow curly heads!
:love5:
2c/3a fine texture, medium-high porosity

So confused...
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Comments

  • TeresinaTeresina Posts: 291Registered Users
    I have never had either cut but am getting my first Deva cut tomorrow. I have read good and bad about both but it seems like a lot of people prefer the Deva cut to the "carve and slice" from Ouidad as I believe I read it's harder to grow out. I think it may also depend your hair's texture, etc.

    I'm sure some of the more experienced curlies here will be able to give you a better answer. Good luck.
    Teresina
    3b/3c/4a coarse, high porosity
  • curlyinohiocurlyinohio Posts: 362Registered Users
    I talked with a stylist about Ouidad's carve and slice cut. She said that some sections of hair are cut right down to the scalp! It's for the purpose of taking out bulk. I was shocked! What a mess that must be when it grows out!
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  • jlcurlsjlcurls Posts: 9Registered Users
    Teresina wrote: »
    I have never had either cut but am getting my first Deva cut tomorrow. I have read good and bad about both but it seems like a lot of people prefer the Deva cut to the "carve and slice" from Ouidad as I believe I read it's harder to grow out. I think it may also depend your hair's texture, etc.

    I'm sure some of the more experienced curlies here will be able to give you a better answer. Good luck.
    Let me know how you make out
    2c/3a fine texture, medium-high porosity

    So confused...
  • jlcurlsjlcurls Posts: 9Registered Users
    I talked with a stylist about Ouidad's carve and slice cut. She said that some sections of hair are cut right down to the scalp! It's for the purpose of taking out bulk. I was shocked! What a mess that must be when it grows out!
    SCARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    2c/3a fine texture, medium-high porosity

    So confused...
  • shellynotshellynot Posts: 1,140Registered Users
    I talked with a stylist about Ouidad's carve and slice cut. She said that some sections of hair are cut right down to the scalp! It's for the purpose of taking out bulk. I was shocked! What a mess that must be when it grows out!

    no thank you!
    2c/3a
    curl blog
    curl album


    "Your head is like a crown on you.
    It is as beautiful as Mount Carmel.
    Your hair is as smooth as purple silk.
    I am captured by your flowing curls."
    Song of Solomon 7:5 (NIRV)

  • curlypearlcurlypearl Posts: 11,970Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I did much better with Deva at the salon in NYC than with Ouidad, and Ouidad herself cut my hair. She was extremely opinionated and the Deva cut was a much better cut than she gave me. She had one idea in mind and wasn't interested in my input - at least that was my experience. I think she's good at marketing and sales, and she's a control freak.
    2/c Coarse hair med. density.
    Highly porous. Color over grey.
    I love all the Curl Junkie products. Still experimenting with gels and curl creams. Still hoping for 2nd day hair....
    Every day is a gift :flower:
  • curlprocurlpro Posts: 332Registered Users
    Ok, here we go.
    I have attended the Deva Curlaboration, a one day instructional for stylists where you pass for attending and cut a maniquin head. I was chosen after an extensive application process to train with Ouidad over two days on 12 models where Ouidad herself lectures and demonstrated the technique and personally oversees the ten people in the class/interview. Not everyone passes. I am uniquely qualified to explain both methods. I have been a stylist for 20+ years with curls as a focus and my clientele is 90% curly.
    The Deva cut is done on dry hair with little or no product and is snipped one curl at a time without ever elevating the hair above 45 degrees (or paralell to the floor, for you lay people) it's a bit like pruning a hedge creating shape from the outside which has to be relatively the same because of the limitations of elevation which determine the amount of layering or shape. There are just certain haircuts you can't do without elevation. In my opinion Deva cuts all look the same.
    The difference with the Deva and the Ouidad is this, while Deva is cut from the outside in, the Ouidad is from the inside out.
    The hair is cut wet, (because the curls are never in the same place so dry cutting is sort of moot) the outside design line is cut depending on the haircut you want. Then the stylist uses the patented technique the "Carve & Slice". The stylist creates movement and incredible spirals by reading the curls in vertical sections, not horizontal and carefully makes a series of very delicate small carves and slices. This is never done to the scalp,( who would do that?) but at selected areas depending on the heaviness of the curl. The result is miraculous spirals, removal of the dred pyramid, incredible lift and movement. The comment I hear most when the ladies see the hair on the floor is "That's it?" This is not a massive culling hack up like thinning. It bears no resemblance to thinning at all. This increases movement and the life of your curls in a way you can't believe untill you see or experience it.
    The reason you don't know very much about Ouidad if you haven't gotten a cut or talked to a certified stylist is this, there only a select amount of people who can pass the training and go on to become certified and you have to hunt them down. They are usually not around the corner unless you are in NYC or LA and the recipiants are happy with their hair and aren't complaining about their hair on the boards because it is great.
    I know, one stylist, much less a certified stylist, may not change your mind and not everything is for everybody but if you haven't tried it you don't have enough information to have an opinion one way or the other. So if you want your hair to do something it isn't doing and no one has been able to solve the problem for you, I suggest you try a Ouidad Certified Stylist. The haircut last about 12-15 weeks or longer. I agree that Ouidad is opinionated about her method, why wouldn't she be? She thought enough of it to have it patented. If the Deva cut works for you get one, if a random cut makes your curls sing, stick with it but if nothing has worked to make you happy you haven't tried it all unless you have had a Ouidad Carve & Slice. Combined with the "Rake & Shake" application method of applying product you will have the most amazing curls you have ever seen. I see it every day.
    If you have any questions feel free to contact me and I will do my best to answer them for you or guide you to someone who can. This are just my observations based on my experiences behind the chair. I am sure others have different opinions, I am not interested in debating so let me be clear, so there is no mistaking what I am saying. I prefer the Ouidad Cut, I think it is better than the Deva cut. If you have a Deva cut and like it I am happy for you because I want all curly girls to love their hair period. This post is speaking to people dissatisfied with their hair who want info on this method compared to another. I've done my best to explain it to the best of my ability.
    Have a great hair day..
    Cynthia
  • banjocurlbanjocurl Posts: 1,020Registered Users
    interesting! thanks cynthia for the explanation. lots of myths around about the ouidad carve and slice. i've been happy with my devacuts but my hair is easy and healthy and not thick. it sounds like the ouidad training process is lots more demanding and the technique is highly evolved. i did have issues with the lack of actual training time in the curlaborations as described so that someone who goes thru that is not guaranteed to be a competent curly hair cutter by that process alone. i do know people who were unhappy w the ouidad cuts and mostly they were thinner haired people. the people who like the ouidad cuts are usually those with thicker hair. please tell us more!!
    Susan suburban NY
    3b going gray, not thick, waist length when wet, a bit below shoulders when dry
    CG since 11/11/04
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  • kathymackkathymack Posts: 9,999Registered Users
    curlypro, that was a great explanation. I'm sure many of us understand the cuts a lot better now.
    3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
    SE PA

    HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Aloe Fix
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Mebsy01Mebsy01 Posts: 49Registered Users
    I had a carve and slice cut done and I wasn't that impressed. Maybe my hair is just too darn thick, but it didn't seem like it made that much of a difference and it was SO expensive. I haven't tried a deva cut yet, but after looking into it, I think my hair would do better with that.
  • curlypearlcurlypearl Posts: 11,970Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    My hair is thin to medium. Maybe that's why the Ouidad cut didn't work for me. Also, it was her personality.

    I found Tameeka at Christo the best curly cutter of all and I've tried a lot of them. She was supposed to be fantastic for 4 type hair; I'm a 3a but her haircut was the best I ever had.

    Anyway, good luck whatever you do!
    2/c Coarse hair med. density.
    Highly porous. Color over grey.
    I love all the Curl Junkie products. Still experimenting with gels and curl creams. Still hoping for 2nd day hair....
    Every day is a gift :flower:
  • curlprocurlpro Posts: 332Registered Users
    Hi guys, I am glad I could shed some light. I know that personality counts with a stylist and is important. I don't know if you know that Christo worked with Ouidad and left to start his own company. So you may have had a Ouidad cut and not known about it, if it was by Christo. I do know that one cut does not a relationship make. We use our skill to make the best educated guess when it comes to your hair. It is up to the client to give us feed back so we can customize the cut to your specifics, sometimes the smallest things make the biggest difference. Mebsy, if you were to have gone back the next time and told your stylist that it still had too much bulk, she would have adjusted her carving and slicing to take more hair off, it's hard for us to know just the right amount the very first time we meet you and err on the side of caution. You can always take more off but putting it back on is a *****! That is my philosophy anyway, better safe than sorry. Good luck either way on the path to your curly cut.
    Cynthia
  • urbanmommyurbanmommy Posts: 155Registered Users
    Thanks for your explanation, Cynthia. I do one question about the Ouidad cut vs. other cuts: why does it seem sometimes the ends are much thinner? Is it a styling issue? And can you wear a Ouidad cut straight?

    I had my haircut at Christo a few years ago when I lived in Manhattan and I was very, very unhappy with the results. My hair was barely bob length at that time, and the cut left my hair uneven and unable to ho.ld a style. It took nearly 6 months to grow out, and a nice guy at Vidal Sassoon in NYC cleaned it up. Then I moved to Atlanta.

    There's a stylist in the Atlanta area that specializes in a curly cut called the C cut, but I'm not sure if this is the same as Carve & Slice, and I don't want to spend another huge sum of money to be unhappy.

    I've reached the point where I'm about ready to cut my own darned hair. See my avatar and signature for the reasons why. ;)
    My Hair Blog
    3b/c who grew out a chemical haircut
    Products: Shea Moisture Shampoo, Suave Moroccan Infusion Shampoo & Conditioner, Tigi Dumb Blonde Reconstructor, Suave Volumizing Mousse

    36 MONTHS SINCE THE BUZZ CUT!


  • curlprocurlpro Posts: 332Registered Users
    Hi,
    Anything overdone is overdone. Too much slicing can cause thin ends. There is no reason you can't blow out your Ouidad cut, my boss does it all the time. She has medium density med to coarse 2-3 curls. I know about the c cut. It was very popular in the 80's when I went to school (I am old but still hip) the hair is twisted and cut specifically to create movenent and curl, I think they use curved shears. It works like anything on some people, some not so much, it depends on how much curl you hope to get. Hair is finicky as you can tell from the posts here. The main thing I have found is that when you use curved shapes to cut curly hair it's better. Plus you have to give it time to work. Sometimes it can take a few cuts to get the true benefit of the new method. I do a lot of repair work and some of the hair is so short or the curls are collapsing over the ears, or in the crown it may take 6 months for their hair to grow out enough to relize the full benefit of the cut. So unless you have one length hair you will have to transition into the cut unless you cut the other haircut completely out. I have a few clients that went to another stylist in town (some people like a change I guess, no hard feelings on my part) she does not cut in the same way I do, when I see them around town I have to smile because it is still my haircut (I can tell my work, as can most experienced stylists) the new girl is just trimming my shape that is still in their hair and yet they look like they need a haircut to me (LOL) because it is loosing the shape after about 9 mos. So remember, unless the shape is changed, or you let it grow completely out you are carrying around some of the old cut for a while. And I don't know about you but my hair hates a haircut! freaks out and has a hissy fit for about a week and a half. Then it just falls into place it's the strangest thing,maybe your hair is the same way. My friend Lynn says hers takes three weeks, so give it a chance to settle down too. I would try the c cut, since you didn't like the Carve & Slice or try another Ouidad stylist. I think there is a video with the c cut roaming around on the internet, I would google it. If you don't like the c try something else, it' will grow back, that's the beauty of hair vs. the Tattoo.
    Cynthia
  • jerseygirl07067jerseygirl07067 Posts: 296Registered Users
    Cynthia, that was such great info on the two cuts!I've always wondered how they were different.

    You've inspired me to go for the Ouidad cut at some point in the future. :)


    Hair Type - medium to fine texture, high porosity, lots of it, type 2b/3a
  • curlprocurlpro Posts: 332Registered Users
    Hey Jersey, I ma glad I cleared that up for you, I look forward to seeing you in the salon in a few weeks.
    Cynthia
  • jlcurlsjlcurls Posts: 9Registered Users
    Curlpro,

    Where are you located?
    2c/3a fine texture, medium-high porosity

    So confused...
  • CurlyQMomCurlyQMom Posts: 203Registered Users
    I've had both cuts. Although I was still using sulfates (well I used all Ouidad products) with the Ouidad cut. I desperately, desperately have been trying to work with my mess hair for years and Ouidad was my first try. Within 3 weeks of my Ouidad cut I was back to blow drying my hair straight daily. Now I wonder if being CG would have been enough to make it work. At the time I just figured, "well my hair's always been a huge mess, why should an expensive hair cut make a difference?"

    Fast forward to this summer. I went CG and got a cut by a Deva trained stylist. The cut is nice and things are better than my previous attempt at going curly. I do think there are a few things that are lacking and curlpro really helped me understand why by sharing the 45 degree angle piece.

    I really think its all a combo of what works for *your* hair - maybe I'd get more satisfactory results with the Ouidad method now that I am off sulfates and cones.

    Thanks for the info curlpro!
    Sulfate & Silcone Free since July 2009
    2C-3A normal to high (ends) porosity, medium texture, lower end of med density
    Currently experimenting with Water Only Washing and dropping stylers

    Negative on: AOHR, mineral oil
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  • curlprocurlpro Posts: 332Registered Users
    jlcurls wrote: »
    Curlpro,

    Where are you located?
    I am in St.Petersburg, Florida, I am listed on the Ouidad Website @ Practically Frivolous address and number listed there with email as well.
    Cynthia
  • grrljuliegrrljulie Posts: 1Registered Users
    Curlypro,

    Will either of these cuts work on wavy hair? Mine is super-thick, wavy all over but less so on top, and I would like to have a cut that would allow me to wash and wear it without much, if any, styling involved.

    Any advice?
  • bigredapmibigredapmi Posts: 229Registered Users
    First off, I would like to say that curlpro is a true professional that has been on these boards for quite awhile, like myself. We have seen trends come and go, been sung praises for our methods and bashed for our methods. I think at this point we mostly lurk.
    Curlpro, I think you have a passion for curlys, as do I, and you have gone above and beyond to be well informed and educated. We both know how important and hard it can be to go against the grain.
    If you are interested in the carve n slice, and think that method will work for your hair, by all means find a way to get to curlpro!!
    What I think curlpro and I both want is well informed curlys, that have options that they have never had before.
    That being said, I have chosen the Deva method for myself and my clientel.
    Please know that there is a world of difference between the 1 day course and the three day. A one day stylist gets the basics, the 3 day is much more advanced.
    There is no limitation of the 45 degree angle or the style or shape of the hair. It's just that Deva respects the natural hair, curl and growth patteren. The haircut will always be unique to your natural hair.
    For you curlies that have 3 different curl types, for you curlies that have a curl that starts at the back of your head, but likes to dry over to the side. For you curlies that have a crown that falls forward, but sides that go back. I say quit fighting it and go with it. Get a haircut that works with your natural patern instead of against it. If this is what your looking for then the Deva cut should be your choice.
    As for the hair being " uneven" If I am doing a wet cut, I can give an absolutely precission even cut, that if you pull it up and out you will see straight lines. No problem. But my head has no straight lines, my hair has no straight lines, when my hair dries, there are no straight lines.
    We wear our hair dry, why not cut it dry, exactly where it lives.
    Both methods agree that you must start with properly moisturised hair. We go about it different ways. Carve n slice manipulates the hair to remove bulk and lay down the curl. Deva cuts respects the curl in its natural shape and placment.
    Be a well informed curly, know your hair and know what you want, and you will be happy.
    Whew, I sure hope that all came out well, it sounded good in my head.;)
    3a/3b coarse and thick.....big and red

    Advanced Deva inspired Stylist
  • intanbiruintanbiru Posts: 2Registered Users
    I agree with what Curlpro says. I think they are both good cuts. But for me personally, for my hair texture, very thick, coarse, tight/curly, 3b?, the Ouidad cut was better.

    I have been getting my hair cut from senior stylists at Ouidad for nine years now.

    After reading the Curly Girl Handbook and following that method of not washing with shampoo or using silicone products, I was excited to get a Devachan cut with a senior stylist in May.

    Frankly the Devachan cut was not the best for me, but it is probably a question of taste. A few weeks later I went back to Ouidad and got a Ouidad cut (but didn't tell my stylist!)

    I only need a Ouidad cut every six months. From the Devachan stylist (actually her assistant) I learned a lot about hair care and it was totally worth it to go through that experience. She taught me how to use their products, and they are wonderful: DevaCare No Poo, DevaCare One Condition, and Heaven in Hair as a leave-in.

    What I didn't like was that the person who styles your hair is an assistant. I had been spoiled at Ouidad that the person who cuts your hair styles it as well.

    But the biggest drawback for me of the Devachan cut is probably that I am used to the Ouidad cut. The Devachan cut looked to me a little too stacked, a little too triangular, a little too soccer mom (forgive me for saying that). Ultimately I like the look of the Ouidad cut better, both the cut and how they style your hair. And again, I'll say it, for me it was a question of aesthetic and taste, and everyone will have a different style that they want to rock.

    The main thing is to rock the curls, have fun experimenting, and not be too obsessed with finding the perfect curly cut. If you don't like one you can always get it done at another salon. I know these cuts are expensive, but they really are much cheaper than hair extensions, or relaxing, or flat ironing in the long run.

    For me the biggest part of the journey is learning to rock my big curly hair, even when it's third day hair and I'm getting that frizz halo. For me the Ouidad cut is perfect because if I want tamer bouncy curls I can get that with first day hair (and I recommend their Tress Effects gel for that which has no silicones and is a light-weight wonderful gel that I rake and shake in), but if I want to fluff it out and rock third day hair I can do that too.

    I hope you all have fun on your curly hair adventures!
  • PuffffPuffff Posts: 55Registered Users
    So I was on the Deva website the other day and had a random question: Why is it that deva categorizes hair by names vs. the number letter system?

    I mean I guess it really doesn't matter...I was just curious. ;)

    Also, for you curly hair stylists would you recommend going to a stylist who specializes in cutting curls for just a trim? I mean should curly hair be trimmed differently than straight hair?
  • curlsofnycurlsofny Posts: 478Registered Users
    I'm glad this post was bumped; I'm considering a Ouidad cut. I found out there was a certified salon about 10 miles from my house. I'v'e been getting the Deva cut, but I'm just not loving my hair. I'm just concerned that the Ouidad cut is done wet. I do not want to cut the length! I am looking to tone down bulk and volume, so that is why I figured ouidad might be better for me. Any input?
  • raindearraindear Posts: 356Registered Users
    Monday I had an appointment at Square Color Salon in Las Vegas with Deva trained stylist Erica Cossio. I must say I liked Erica, probably influenced when the first words she said to me were "You have beautiful hair." :angel2:

    She gave me a haircut. I have read so much about Deva cuts, but the cut was much different from any expectations or preconceptions I may have had. She told me at the outset that the curls would be cut at an angle. The angle was much steeper that I had anticipated. Ouidad cuts are supposed to be more thinning than Deva cuts. Well, my Deva cut was a thinning cut, I lost more hair volume than I expected from the things I have read. At this point, I am not sure whether I will actually continue with Deva cuts. I think it will depend on whether I decide to go for more length. If I decide to try to grow my hair longer, I will continue with Deva cuts, but if I decide to maintain a shorter style, I will probably not continue with them, because if I keep a shorter length, I want to keep my volume, too.

    I may post photos in a few days. I wish I could post before/after photos of my curls, but they didn't show up til Saturday, and the appt. was Monday, so I didn't manage to get pics of them.
    Be Happy!

    Type:2b/3ab?
    Texture:Medium/fine
    Porosity:Normal
    Elasticity:Normal

    Experimenting with too many products to name here. All this great info keeps my head spinning. :happy6:
  • blulightblulight Posts: 131Registered Users
    Ouidad was the worst cut I ever had. It was about 10 years ago, and I still shudder when I think about it. Took a while to grow it out long enough to have it recut. Until it did I hated my hair so much, it was always fluffy, frizzy and unmanageable, with curl pattern seriously messed up, I didn't even have curls left really, no definition, just ball of fuzz no matter what products I used. It felt and looked unhealthy and wrong. Maybe this kind of cut is good for some types of hair, but definitely not mine, and stylist should have known it and told me.

    I don't know how Deva cuts are different from the dry cuts I've been getting, I've seen Deva cut pictures and some seem similar to what I've had, so I'd go with that if I had to choose. I'd choose anything over Ouidad though. My hair is thick enough that I do need bulk removed, but I've been to enough stylists afterwards (wet and dry cuts) who managed to do it without me losing curls and leaving me feeling half bald. There are much better techniques than what Ouidad does.
    3b/fine/thick/normal porosity/bsl
  • jaclyn15jaclyn15 Posts: 227Registered Users
    I personally have never had a Ouidad cut, but I would not have one... reason being, I have found all of their products to be so completely useless and bad for my hair, that I can't imagine they could offer a cut that works. Their cleansers are so incredibly drying, their stylers are useless, and their conditioners are not nearly enough for dry, thirsty curls.

    The one exception is their botantical boost, if your hair really needs a bit of protein... the rest has proven terrible for me. That said, every curly is different and there have been people who have had success with Ouidad cuts and products. I just get an icky, pushy vibe from the whole company!
    My hair: 3b, corkicelli, medium porosity, medium texture, medium/thick density

    Co-wash: DevaCurl NoPoo
    Rinse-out: GVP Conditioning Balm
    Leave-in: KCKT, Suave Naturals Coconut, or my rinse-out!
    Gel: SS FHG (my new HG!!)... I also like HESMU, AIF, CJ CQ, BRHG, CJ PP and the occasional LALSG

    Likes: Plopping!
    Dislikes: Glycerin

    CG and loving it! :hello1:
  • briana.colleenbriana.colleen Posts: 22Registered Users
    I'm still on the fence about these 2 cuts. I'd posted on this topic a few months ago. Right now, my hair is just to shoulder length, tight 3B curls. Have been CG for 15 months now. Not liking the way my hair is growing out with the frizz and that almost pyramid look. The Deva salon is a 45 min drive vs the Ouidad salon that just opened, which is a 5 min drive. But, the Ouidad cuts are almost double what I'm now paying, not to mention the cost of coloring & products. Still cheaper than the Brazilian Blowouts I used to get, but I'm still concerned about the cost. If the Ouidad Carve & Slice cut is worth it, then I will take the plunge. Which cut would be better for growing out tight curly hair?
  • Morgan_AdcockMorgan_Adcock Posts: 2,573Registered Users
    How thick is your hair? If it's really thick, you may like the Ouidad cut. It will really thin your hair out, and it will take a long time to grow out.

    IME, with a varied curl pattern, extremely fine hair which isn't thick, and 3B curls, it was not a good option. Also, cutting it wet meant that the stylist couldn't see what each carve and slice did to my hair.

    OTOH Deva cuts work brilliantly for my hair. Cutting it curl by curl and dry, the stylist could see how each snip interacted with the rest of my hair, and there are no nasty surprises at the end.
    Peace,
    Morgan

    Baby Fine 3B, low porosity, normal density and elasticity
    CGing since July 2008
  • briana.colleenbriana.colleen Posts: 22Registered Users
    I've got extremely thick, coarse hair, it does have some varying curl patterns on it. But, when it gets to a certain length, it starts to look like a pyramid. Which is what I'm experiencing now with growing it out. I would hate to lose all that hair growth but just want the bulk taken off. How long did it take to grow the Ouidad cut out? If I only need 3 or 4 cuts a year, then it may be worth the change, even though the cuts are more expensive.
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