CurlTalk

I'm new here with a big problem (please help)

Hey everybody. New member here :)
Anyway, I have had a problem that I can't resolve in regards to my hair. I posted it over at longhaircommunity but nobody there could figure it out. It's really frustrating.. anyway, here's what it is! (sorry for the long read)

I decided that my hair was too dry to continue SLS shampoos (as well as silicons) a few months ago, so I tried out a few things- natural shampoos, ACV washes, and co-washes. They worked really well for a while. One product in particular was amazing- Matrix's Biolage Conditioning Balm. I couldn't believe how soft this stuff made my hair- as well as the way it looked. I'm a male (shaggy hair), so my hair is not really something i notice too much but this product stood out to me. I was so happy with how this, as well as not using SLS prodcuts, benefited my hair. I used a lot of this conditioner after my ACV washes or natural shampoo washes.

However, after about a month, I started noticing that my hair had a strange build-up in it, only on the top of my head (ya know, that spot where men usually start balding). My hair was lying flat and straight. I also noticed that my hair started to have a slight offensive smell to it. I tried washing this stuff out with my non-SLS methods but it wouldn't come out. Eventually it got worse and I couldn't take it anymore. My hair (usually wavy and thick) now felt waxy and straight. Keep in mind , this was only on the top of my head, on a few clumps of hair. I thought it was the dreaded "transition period" but the next thing i did proved this wrong.
I got fed up and gave in to SLS again. I washed my hair with "normal" SLS shampoo, expecting this stuff to come out- but it didn't. A few days later, I washed again, really drying out my hair. but it was still there the second i stepped out of the shower.
A month later, I have tried many many things-
washed with dish washing detergent; hot oil treatments; different SLS shampoos; baking soda washes; etc....

And my hair still has this in it!!! Even the second after washing with DISH WASHING DETERGENT, I looked in the mirror and it was still there!! This stuff won't come out! And it is now obvious that it's not jsut on the top part of my hair anymore. Now my hair everywhere has the feel/look of being overconditioned. It's straight, thin, waxy, and not clean feeling. My waves/curls are not defined or not even there for some matter. When I shake my head, my hair doesnt fly around like it used to before this.

What the hell do I do?!!?!?

I know this is really bad, but I tried scraping some of it out with a butter knife, and when i do, a white powder-type material comes off. It almost resembles a tiny particle of dust (btw- it's NOT dandruff).

This stuff is not on my scalp, just on my hair...
The only explanation I can come up with is that it was caused by the over-richness of the Biolage Conditioning Balm (knew it was too good to be true).
I'm guessing it kinda sealed my hair and made it un-permeable, because it won't wash out and sometimes my hair still smells funky after washing it with shampoo..
HELP

P.S- I'll post a pic if you all want.
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Comments

  • rudeechickrudeechick Posts: 6,726Registered Users
    This is a new one on me. I have NO CLUE what could build up that badly that dishwashing detergent wouldnt remove it.

    Will be curious to see if anyone else has experienced this.

    Sorry I cant help; good luck.
    Curls,Coils,Waves & WhatKnot:geek:
    3miii/My HGs tame bulk&frizz/Give definition w/o crunch
    My Photobucket Album
  • CurlyCarrieSCurlyCarrieS Posts: 200Registered Users
    CG since10/26/09
    Co-wash Suave Naturals Wild Cherry Blossom
    Leave-in Suave Naturals Wild Cherry Blossom (Just a little before adding La Bella Max Hold Plus Volume Styling Gel.)
    Just bought Olive Miracle Leave-in Conditioner to try. I used it to scrunch out the crunch and it smells wonderful. (05Jun2012)
    Fotki pwpics
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • CzechfanCzechfan Posts: 50Registered Users
    Hi Minorking09,

    I have seen this before when I was back working as a hairstylist for several years ago. This is a waxy type buildup that can happen usually seen in babies,and some adults. I've found that the only thing that seemed to work for me was to apply an oil such as Olive oil to the scalp massage it in really well leave in hair for about 20 minutes then use a fine toothed comb to gently loosen and remove the waxy build up. Then just low poo or use a co-wash using it 2X and rinse out apply leave in if needed. You need to be careful of how your applying product to your hair when cleansing/conditioning it. Apply a quarter to fifty cent size ammount of co-wash to wet hair and scalp. Then add to palms and rub together working from the back of the neck forward massaging and working it in good as you go.

    I know using oil on your scalp for this sounds weird but the oil is what loosens the waxy build up. Its actually sebum or hair oils that are accumulating and bonding to conditioner/shampoo residue on the scalp. If this helps but it still needs more of it removed repeat the steps and maybe add a shampoo to remove chlorine or swimmers hair shampoo. This tends to be harsh and drying so you'll need to condition it well afterward. I'd recommend rinsing thoroughly from now on to help. Probably 1X a week ACV rinse after co-wash and before final rinse out. The ACV removes any residue and brings the ph level back to the hair. ACV works well as an occasional rinsing agent and PH level adjustor.

    I hope this info helps~:thumbright:

    Hugs!

    Nora
    ______________
    3a/3bcurls, blonde, color treated,med fine.
    Co-Wash: Suave Naturals & White Rain Conditioners,VO5 Moisture Milks, Burts Bees Super Shiny Grapefruit and Sugar Beet Shampoo

    RO= GVPCB,Lustrasilk Shea Butter Cholestrol& Mango conditioner
    LI= Herbal Essence Hello Hydration,VO5 Moisture Milks.
    DT= JC WDT, GVP KPAK

    Styling: FSG,,Ecostyler Krystal Gel, LALSG,:love4:&:love4:AfroVeda Curly Custard, Cocolatte Moisture Mask, Pur Whipped Gelly
  • minorking09minorking09 Posts: 12Registered Users
    Holy sh*t , thanks so much Czechfan, lol I didn't think anyone would help me..

    I will do what you mentioned with the oil. How fine of a comb should I use?

    Also, if it helps but I need to do it again like you mentioned, is it okay to do it right after? Or should I wait a few days? (please don't tell me I have to wait, lol)
  • rudeechickrudeechick Posts: 6,726Registered Users
    oh yeah - babies get that! good catch!
    Curls,Coils,Waves & WhatKnot:geek:
    3miii/My HGs tame bulk&frizz/Give definition w/o crunch
    My Photobucket Album
  • minorking09minorking09 Posts: 12Registered Users
    i tried it... didn't work
    by the way, i've done the oil thing twice already lol so although I was hopeful that it would work, I wasn't surprised.
    THIS SUCKS!
  • CzechfanCzechfan Posts: 50Registered Users
    Hi,

    I'm sorry that it didn't work. I've used this method in the past on clients and my own kids and it did work. Maybe try a dandruff shampoo. The olive oil won't hurt your hair it will be pre poo type conditioning treatment, or like a hot oil treatment. Regarding the fine tooth comb. Just a regular comb with the teeth really close together. The trick is to have the oil loosen up the sebum buildup and using the fine toothed comb to loosen it further and gently work it off the scalp in the affected area. Please don't use dishwashing detergent on your hair its way harsh and will strip it of any moisture and make your hair dry and frizzy.

    I wish you luck with resolving this and maybe give the dandruff shampoo a try, just something like tegrin, head and shoulders, or selsun blue. This could be a case of seborrea dermatitis. It just means that the sebum is building up in a area, its nothing serious or to worry about dandruff shampoos particularly Tegrin or Selsun Blue would be good choices for that. I think Selsun now has a natural type line.

    Take care:hello2:

    Nora
    ______________
    3a/3bcurls, blonde, color treated,med fine.
    Co-Wash: Suave Naturals & White Rain Conditioners,VO5 Moisture Milks, Burts Bees Super Shiny Grapefruit and Sugar Beet Shampoo

    RO= GVPCB,Lustrasilk Shea Butter Cholestrol& Mango conditioner
    LI= Herbal Essence Hello Hydration,VO5 Moisture Milks.
    DT= JC WDT, GVP KPAK

    Styling: FSG,,Ecostyler Krystal Gel, LALSG,:love4:&:love4:AfroVeda Curly Custard, Cocolatte Moisture Mask, Pur Whipped Gelly
  • anniemaeanniemae Posts: 1,702Registered Users
    I would go to a dermatologist. Good luck.
    Hair Type - wavy/curly, fine texture, thin/medium density
    2b-c/F/ii
    :dog:
  • crimsonshedemoncrimsonshedemon Posts: 2,098Registered Users
    anniemae wrote: »
    I would go to a dermatologist. Good luck.

    2nd that recommendation
  • CurlyHazeCurlyHaze Posts: 295Registered Users
    I agree dermatologist.

    Keep in mind that sebum works in supply and demand so when you over stimulate the scalp it will produce more sebum. so when you do the above treatments make sure you do them as gently as possible and try not to do them too much. Also try mixing some Tea tree oil in with them.

    This has got to be frustrating, good luck to you.
    Very Thick dry 3b BSL.
    Fine, medium porosity
    Right now I am using GVP conditioning balm for cowash and RO,
    my hair loves protein.
    for styling my base is BRHG I can use it alone but prefer with Curl Keeper. I sulphate poo once a month or so as needed.
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2FCurlyHaze%2F" class="Popup
  • minorking09minorking09 Posts: 12Registered Users
    I really don't think it's something that I would have to see a dermatologist for.. I am blaming it on the combination of going low-poo and using so much of the Biolage Conditioning Balm..

    Anyway, are there any treatments (someone suggested a Malibu treatment?) that I can buy to help with this? Hot oil treatments aren't helping..
  • goobernutgoobernut Posts: 2,317Registered Users
    I don't know what kind of water you have, but you really could be having a product/water build up. If the malibu someone else mentioned is the same as the malibu I'm thinking, its probably for hard water.

    However, since you have sooo much build up, I'm not sure one washing will get rid of it. Find a good clarifying shampoo with citric acid in it. Or sally's has a hard water shampoo as well. I have very hard water and use Kenra Clarifying shampoo. Make sure if you go find one it says it removes "mineral" build up. Not just chlorine.

    What czechfan said made sense, but since the oil wouldn't remove it, then it could be like limescale, only on your head, and oil definitely won't remove that. You can try using the clarifying shampoo for a week or two.

    Or the first couple of times you use the shampoo, leave it soaking on your head for 5 mins to help dissolve the build up. Vinegar is also good to help dissolve hard water build up.
    Grand Goobah Caedran, Aqueous Infusion of Demulcents, Order of the Curly Crusaders

    Fia 2cFi, fine texture, med porosity CG 5-29-09 * My hair loves protein! Currently using : DermOrganics Shampoo and IHM, G2B Kinkier Mousse, Re:Coil VMM, Anything Spiral Solutions! MO Sealing. Coconut Oil Pre-Poo, once a month Hard Water shampoo. Avoiding Glycerin in finishing products.
  • minorking09minorking09 Posts: 12Registered Users
    I don't see how it can be water build up as i've been washing with the same water for years with no problems.. I just don't think it's a coincidence that this occurered at the same time as when I started switching hair washing methods/products lol.
  • goobernutgoobernut Posts: 2,317Registered Users
    I don't mean just water build up, its water in combination with certain products that causes the build up. Which would be why its happening since you changed products. See what I mean?
    Grand Goobah Caedran, Aqueous Infusion of Demulcents, Order of the Curly Crusaders

    Fia 2cFi, fine texture, med porosity CG 5-29-09 * My hair loves protein! Currently using : DermOrganics Shampoo and IHM, G2B Kinkier Mousse, Re:Coil VMM, Anything Spiral Solutions! MO Sealing. Coconut Oil Pre-Poo, once a month Hard Water shampoo. Avoiding Glycerin in finishing products.
  • lotoloto Posts: 133Registered Users
    If there is nothing on your scalp, only on your hair, there is no point in seeing a dermathologist.

    However, a hairdresser might be able to help!

    Otherwise... shave it off? Cut it?
    3A: med/coarse texture; high porosity
    <3 Honey rinses
  • minorking09minorking09 Posts: 12Registered Users
    goobernut wrote: »
    I don't mean just water build up, its water in combination with certain products that causes the build up. Which would be why its happening since you changed products. See what I mean?

    Oh , yeah that makes more sense. I've been using different clarifying shampoos for the past 2-3 weeks now every time I wash (every three days or so) and to no avail.. they both have citric acid in them. =\
  • goobernutgoobernut Posts: 2,317Registered Users
    at the risk of sounding silly, which clarifying shampoos? If you have hard water, and they contain a form of soap, castille or whatever, you're not clarifying, you're making it worse. Soap bars will make it worse. Anything with a soap type product. You need to use something with a chemical surfactant rather than a soap. Most "natural" shampoos are made out of liquid soap.

    However, if its a detergent and its got citric acid in it, then I don't know what else to tell you. Sorry :(
    Grand Goobah Caedran, Aqueous Infusion of Demulcents, Order of the Curly Crusaders

    Fia 2cFi, fine texture, med porosity CG 5-29-09 * My hair loves protein! Currently using : DermOrganics Shampoo and IHM, G2B Kinkier Mousse, Re:Coil VMM, Anything Spiral Solutions! MO Sealing. Coconut Oil Pre-Poo, once a month Hard Water shampoo. Avoiding Glycerin in finishing products.
  • minorking09minorking09 Posts: 12Registered Users
    goobernut wrote: »
    at the risk of sounding silly, which clarifying shampoos? If you have hard water, and they contain a form of soap, castille or whatever, you're not clarifying, you're making it worse. Soap bars will make it worse. Anything with a soap type product. You need to use something with a chemical surfactant rather than a soap. Most "natural" shampoos are made out of liquid soap.

    However, if its a detergent and its got citric acid in it, then I don't know what else to tell you. Sorry :(

    Suave Deep Cleaning for Men, and VO5 Clarifying Shampoo
  • Robin-in-FLRobin-in-FL Posts: 1,731Registered Users
    OK I'll take a guess.

    If it's a hard-water-and-soap buildup then I don't know that there is anything that can remove it without removing your hair. Because when that stuff gets on the tub it takes phosphoric acid to remove it, and that would not be safe or healthy on your hair.

    If it's wax, it may be a matter of sitting there scraping it off, then the oil and comb sounds best, get someone to help and get a flea or nit comb, something super-small-tooth, section your hair and scrape it off.

    As my mom says, worst case scenario usually is you shave your head and it grows back, that's the good thing about hair.
    2c / C / iii (FIA)
    Med-Coarse, LowPorosity, NormalElast (LCLF)

    Shoulder-Length now.

    Wash: DevaCare Low Poo
    Detangle & Rinseout: Walgreens or Sally's Conditioning Balm (always)
    Leave-in: DevaCare OneC (budget choice is GFTN)
    Style: ReCoil & DevaCare Arc Angel (budget choices are HESMU or Got2BSpikedUp)

    Henna!
  • jenniferpajenniferpa Posts: 6Registered Users
    By no means an expert on this but I'd be inclined to clip a bit from somewhere it won't be noticed and experiment on it, rather than your whole head. Have you tried vinegar? On the basis that that will clean lime scale off. Still, I'd try a dilute version on your sample first.
  • goobernutgoobernut Posts: 2,317Registered Users
    I'm not sure about suave deep cleaning for men, but the Vo5 isn't all that good. The regular suave clarifying is clarifying, but not chelating. You need a shampoo that also chelates. Which means, removes the build up. Sally's sells a treatment that comes in a small packet. You mix it with water and it turns into a gel. You put that gel on your head and let it sit for 2-3 mins. My guess is that sounds like more what you need.

    I know it sounds like I'm being weird, but really, what I've learned from this board is that you can try 80 different things, but if they aren't the exact thing, it won't work. You think you have a product that is supposed to do what you want it to, but then you do some more research and find out that your brand of "clarifying shampoo" only removes product build up and not hard-water/product build up. And once you have that kind of hard-water build up, only very specific things get it off.

    But then again, I could not have a CLUE what is going on with your hair so, I could be completely leading you astray heh. The 2.99 packet at Sally's couldn't hurt though.
    Grand Goobah Caedran, Aqueous Infusion of Demulcents, Order of the Curly Crusaders

    Fia 2cFi, fine texture, med porosity CG 5-29-09 * My hair loves protein! Currently using : DermOrganics Shampoo and IHM, G2B Kinkier Mousse, Re:Coil VMM, Anything Spiral Solutions! MO Sealing. Coconut Oil Pre-Poo, once a month Hard Water shampoo. Avoiding Glycerin in finishing products.
  • minorking09minorking09 Posts: 12Registered Users
    goobernut wrote: »
    I'm not sure about suave deep cleaning for men, but the Vo5 isn't all that good. The regular suave clarifying is clarifying, but not chelating. You need a shampoo that also chelates. Which means, removes the build up. Sally's sells a treatment that comes in a small packet. You mix it with water and it turns into a gel. You put that gel on your head and let it sit for 2-3 mins. My guess is that sounds like more what you need.

    I know it sounds like I'm being weird, but really, what I've learned from this board is that you can try 80 different things, but if they aren't the exact thing, it won't work. You think you have a product that is supposed to do what you want it to, but then you do some more research and find out that your brand of "clarifying shampoo" only removes product build up and not hard-water/product build up. And once you have that kind of hard-water build up, only very specific things get it off.

    But then again, I could not have a CLUE what is going on with your hair so, I could be completely leading you astray heh. The 2.99 packet at Sally's couldn't hurt though.


    Hell yeah. sounds good to me, I was planning on getting the packet from Sally's anyway. Which one should I get, I've had a few suggestions for Malibu 2000?
  • WillowWillow Posts: 46Registered Users
    Get the Malibu original gel. I am the one that mentioned it to you over at the other site..lol. It does come in a little packet but I really recommend that you go to a salon and have the treatment done there. You have to have the heat from a hooded dryer. I had this same thing happen to me in the front of my hair around the temple area. I also was using the biolage but I don't know it that had anything to do with it or not. It may have been something in my face cream because it was at the hairline.


    Have you tried baking soda?

    Edited to add these links: /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.medhelp.org%2Fposts%2FDermatology%2FSudden-oily-scalp--the-crown-area--Will-not-wash-out--why-What-is-it-I-am-healthy-and-bath-daily%2Fshow%2F738641" class="Popup

    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.medhelp.org%2Fposts%2FDermatology%2FSticky---Oily---Greasy-scalp%2Fshow%2F739022" class="Popup

    Check this out..lots of other people with the same problem..someone suggested that it might fungal in nature. You did say there was a slightly off odor, right?

    Jennifer
  • minorking09minorking09 Posts: 12Registered Users
    Willow wrote: »
    Get the Malibu original gel. I am the one that mentioned it to you over at the other site..lol. It does come in a little packet but I really recommend that you go to a salon and have the treatment done there. You have to have the heat from a hooded dryer. I had this same thing happen to me in the front of my hair around the temple area. I also was using the biolage but I don't know it that had anything to do with it or not. It may have been something in my face cream because it was at the hairline.


    Have you tried baking soda?

    Edited to add these links: /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.medhelp.org%2Fposts%2FDermatology%2FSudden-oily-scalp--the-crown-area--Will-not-wash-out--why-What-is-it-I-am-healthy-and-bath-daily%2Fshow%2F738641" class="Popup

    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.medhelp.org%2Fposts%2FDermatology%2FSticky---Oily---Greasy-scalp%2Fshow%2F739022" class="Popup

    Check this out..lots of other people with the same problem..someone suggested that it might fungal in nature. You did say there was a slightly off odor, right?

    Jennifer

    Alright, does Sally's carry it? if so i'll buy two packets of that, as well as a tea tree oil shampoo

    by the way , those links were great
    thanks :]
  • WillowWillow Posts: 46Registered Users
    I went to Sally's website and it doesn't appear as if they have it. They do have one in a purple package called "Ion clarifying treatment". I am pretty sure that it is Sally's version of the malibu. It's about $2.

    Maybe you should try the antifungal cream too. Couldn't hurt anything.

    Wishing you the best,
    Jennifer
  • bergasaurusbergasaurus Posts: 375Registered Users
    I don't remember where I read it but I did read something about people with stinky hair/scalp issues, and they washed with antibacterial soap which helped. I still think a dermatologist would be a good idea though, unless your insurance won't cover it or you don't have any insurance. In that case try WebMD, I'm not sure but you must be able to post a question somehow. Another thing you might not have thought of is to try calling your pharmacist. They are familiar with health problems and the drugs used to treat them, it's a bit of a long shot but certainly can't hurt.
    No cones since 08/25/09. Occasional low poo.
    Fine, normal to low porosity (still not sure which), ii, 3a/3b curls
    Playing with products: HEBE Mousse, BRHG, AOMM, HESMU. Nothing blows my mind just yet. :D
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. - Eleanor Roosevelt
  • CurlFaceCurlFace Posts: 176Registered Users
    loto wrote: »
    If there is nothing on your scalp, only on your hair, there is no point in seeing a dermathologist.

    However, a hairdresser might be able to help!

    Otherwise... shave it off? Cut it?

    Not really true. Dermatologists do deal with hair-related issues as well as skin issues AND nail issues. If you can't help the issue with over the counter treatments, then it couldn't hurt to see a doctor.
    Type: 3a - type 1 on the underside. Thinning.
    :glasses11:
    Currently using:
    -Organix Tea Tree Mint Shampoo (occasionally)
    -Garnier Fructis Triple Nutrition conditioner
    -Suave Waterfall Mist Conditioner or Gee Your Hair Smells Terrific as leave-in
    -A mix of Shique Gel and HE Totally Twisted mousse
    -FX Curls Up Mousse, on occasion


  • JusduitJusduit Posts: 578Registered Users
    I remembered this old thread that might be worth a try if all else has failed. Read the thread starting with the last paragraph in post #20 (by JusLooking)....... http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/showthread.php?t=62697

    HTH!
    3a (protein sensitive)
    Fine, normal porosity, normal elasticity

    Cleansers: Mop-C Hydrating Shampoo, JCGLS
    Conditioners: CJCR, TJTTT
    Leave-in: CJCR, CK Satin Roots
    Stylers: UFDCM, CJPP
    Standby items:GVP K-Pak
  • minorking09minorking09 Posts: 12Registered Users
    I used the ion clarifying treatment from sallys and it didn't work... this sucks soo much guys. I really don't know what to do now. I really don't want to cut off my hair either
  • WillowWillow Posts: 46Registered Users
    Did you use any kind of heat with it? If you didn't, it won't work very well at all.

    The info in the links I posted says to use dawn dish soap and leave it sit for awhile before rinsing.

    Another thing you can try is baking soda. Pour a bunch in your hand and then mix it with conditioner and put it on and leave it sit for about 5 minutes and rinse it out. Make sure you shampoo after rinsing it out to bring the ph level of your hair back to normal.
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