CurlTalk

Insurance Policies (for a non-cooperative person)

scrillsscrills Posts: 6,700Registered Users
I want to get an insurance policy on my dad. I'm sure he doesn't have one and my family has been asking me to get one on him. He's not sick, they are just worried what would happened if something happened to him.

I just found out that my dad's cousin (my 2nd cousin) passed away this week due to renal failure. (I think I'm still in shock). So as the family tries to decipher his insurance policy, it's a reminder to me that I need to worry about my parents.

is it possible to get an insurance policy on someone with little or no cooperation? I'm about 99.9999% sure that my dad won't take a phyisal exams. What are my options?

Comments

  • WileE-DeadWileE-Dead Banned Posts: 24,963Banned Users
    How old is your dad?
    0004.gif

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  • SystemSystem Posts: 39,059 Administrator
    It looks as if there are policies available without a physical exam. The premiums would probably be a bit higher.
  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users
    You can get life insurance on a person without that person even knowing about it. The premiums will be higher without a physical exam though. If he's over 65, it might not be worth it to get a policy at all, because the premiums are exorbitant for older folks, with or without a physical.
  • BoomygrrlBoomygrrl Posts: 4,940Registered Users
    I'm assuming you're talking about health insurance...or are you talking about life insurance?
    That's right, I said it! I wear scrunchies!!

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  • scrillsscrills Posts: 6,700Registered Users
    Life insurance. My dad is 53
  • mad scientistmad scientist Posts: 3,530Registered Users
    You can get life insurance on someone else without them knowing about it? That doesn't seem right. Couldn't you then murder them and collect the benefits (Not YOU Scrills, just in general)?
  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users
    You can get life insurance on someone else without them knowing about it? That doesn't seem right. Couldn't you then murder them and collect the benefits (Not YOU Scrills, just in general)?


    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slate.com%2Fid%2F2189278%2F" class="Popup
  • PixieCurlPixieCurl Posts: 5,656Registered Users
    My husband is an insurance agent and he said you'd at least need a signature from your dad as the "name insured". Though I suppose that might vary from state to state.
    Faith, 3Aish redhead
    Mama to two wild superheroes and a curly-headed baby boy :love5:
  • PixieCurlPixieCurl Posts: 5,656Registered Users
    You can get life insurance on someone else without them knowing about it? That doesn't seem right. Couldn't you then murder them and collect the benefits (Not YOU Scrills, just in general)?


    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slate.com%2Fid%2F2189278%2F" class="Popup

    Yes, my husband mentioned the "insurable interest" thing too, but I told him it was the OP's father.
    Faith, 3Aish redhead
    Mama to two wild superheroes and a curly-headed baby boy :love5:
  • jeepcurlygurljeepcurlygurl Posts: 19,251Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I personally wouldn't get insurance for someone who doesn't want it. I'm one of the tiny minority of people who don't believe in life insurance, especially huge policies. I know all the arguments - money for funerals, money to put kids thru college, paying off mortgages etc. Sorry, just don't believe in making money on the dead. If I have to pay for my dad's funeral, it will be something that I can afford and nothing more. Kids can put themselves thru college. Survivors can pay off the mortgage or sell the property. But that's just my own feelings about it.
    Others should do what makes them comfortable.
    --I'm located in Western PA.
    --I found NC in late 2004, CG since February 2005, started going grey in late 2005.
    --My hair is 3B with some 3A, texture-medium/fine, porosity-normal except for the ends which are porous, elasticity-normal.
    --My long time favorite products are Suave & VO5 conditioners, LA Looks Sport Gel, oils, honey, vinegar.
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  • scrillsscrills Posts: 6,700Registered Users
    You can get life insurance on someone else without them knowing about it? That doesn't seem right. Couldn't you then murder them and collect the benefits (Not YOU Scrills, just in general)?

    HA!! yeah it doesn't like good that the last 2 threads I started at

    1) serial killers in Cleveland
    2) getting a life insurance policy on someone without them knowing it


    It wouldn't be a big policy, just enough to cover the funeral and the mountain of legal fees I will have sorting out my father's affairs. He lives a complicated life and no one knows who owns what. plus he is living with a woman (they've exchanged rings but they aren't legally married). My dad has agreed (but we haven't done it yet) to give me power of attorney upon death so that I can be in charge of taking care of everything.

    again, my dad isn't sick, but with the relatives fighting over how to bury my cousin this week, i realize that I need to think about it. he wanted something simple (cremation), but in their grief, his kids want to have a big funeral/viewing
  • SystemSystem Posts: 39,059 Administrator
    Scrills, it's smart of you to think of these things ahead of time. Lots of unexpected things happen in life, and it's good to be prepared.

    My father had a neighbor who was struggling with her husband's estate. He had assets all over the place and no list. She found uncashed checks in the house -- big ones, some over $50,000. It turned out that he had never re-made his will after they married, so his old will left his estate to some relatives that weren't even alive any more. It was a real nightmare. I hope your father's affairs aren't that bad, but if they are even a tenth as messed up, you will need legal help for sure!

    Edited to add: You should see if you can get a power of attorney that can be invoked if your father becomes incapacitated for some reason. This is especially important since he's not married to the woman he's living with -- he needs a family member to be able to help with medical and financial decisions.
  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users
    scrills wrote: »
    It wouldn't be a big policy, just enough to cover the funeral and the mountain of legal fees I will have sorting out my father's affairs. He lives a complicated life and no one knows who owns what. plus he is living with a woman (they've exchanged rings but they aren't legally married). My dad has agreed (but we haven't done it yet) to give me power of attorney upon death so that I can be in charge of taking care of everything.

    again, my dad isn't sick, but with the relatives fighting over how to bury my cousin this week, i realize that I need to think about it. he wanted something simple (cremation), but in their grief, his kids want to have a big funeral/viewing


    Considering your dad is only 6 years older than me, it would kinda tick me off if one of my kids was already planning my death. Sounds like his kids are all grown and he's living his life how he wants to. I'd let him.
  • scrillsscrills Posts: 6,700Registered Users
    oh, I don't care what he does, that's not the issue. I get along with his girlfriend/wife. It's the finances that will be an issue.

    1) My father partially supports several people (my mom, my sis, his aunt, and now a couple of his brothers live with him). If something goes wrong, they will be coming to me for support. and there are a couple houses that I'm not sure who owns them and where they are in terms of finances (and one is in the multi-million dollar range)

    2) The problem is that every time there is a death in the family, are are scrambling to figure out how to pay for the funeral. I want one a policy for both my parents. My mom is ok with it, my dad doesn't believe in Western Medicine = no physical exam.
  • luvmylocsluvmylocs Posts: 7,578Registered Users
    i work in life insurance. trust me, unless you're wealthy, it's nice to have. funerals and burials are very expensive and it's not the kind of thing you shop around to find a better price on when you need it!!! i've witnessed this first hand. the last thing you want to have to worry about when your loved one dies is how you're going to pay to bury them and what costs you can cut to "save money".

    it doesn't sound like you're trying to get a policy to pay for school or buy you a house so i don't see the harm in it, again unless your dad is wealthy and would leave enough to pay for everything but even with that money is often tied up and you wouldn't get access to it for weeks or months after the person has passed.

    i DO think it is responsible to get a life insurance policy if you have young kids because that loss of income should a parent die could impact their quality of life and it just feels like the right thing to do for the surviving spouse or parent. of course it's cheaper to buy the younger you are and better to buy before you have any major health issues which will surely jack up your premiums.

    you CAN buy life insurance without the person ever knowing but it is tricky and generally frowned upon in the industry now.

    the physical required for underwriting is not invasive. they can come to your home or place of business, weigh you, draw blood and get a urine sample. based on your dads age they might order medical records, if he doesn't have them he doesn't have them but the price of the policy will probably be higher given the absence of medical records.

    you can get free insurance quotes on-line and that might give you an idea of if it's worth it to you financially to get a policy on your dad of if you want to have a discussion with him about how he would suggest things be handled should he die.

    i'm "younger" with no dependents, except for my 2 dogs which i've specified to my parents i wish should be taken care of....anyway, i have a policy. i've told my mother about it and hopefully i'll marry and have kids and it would be there for them. i got a 30 year level term with return on premium so if i live the whole time i'll get a nice check back totalling all the premiums i've paid at the end of the 30 years but if i die during that time my burial at the very least would be taken care of and my family and/or dependents would at least not have to worry about such a great financial loss too. i feel that dealing with these things are not glamorous or fun to talk about but i can tell you it's super hard to have to think about these things and make some decisions when the person dies, especially if it's suddenly like in a car accident or something.
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  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users
    If anyone I love dies and I get to plan the funeral, they're getting: a casket from Costco (or a piece of plywood and a bolt of linen to wrap), a viewing and memorial service in my living room, a trip to the crematory in the back of my truck, and a vase for the ashes from Pier1 Outlet. Total cost: under $500.
  • luvmylocsluvmylocs Posts: 7,578Registered Users
    If anyone I love dies and I get to plan the funeral, they're getting: a casket from Costco (or a piece of plywood and a bolt of linen to wrap), a viewing and memorial service in my living room, a trip to the crematory in the back of my truck, and a vase for the ashes from Pier1 Outlet. Total cost: under $500.

    your choice which you are entitled to. everyone doesn't feel that way. there are certain costs even to be cremated (i don't know what they are) but i suspect it's at least in the hundreds.

    plus that's your view on how you would handle a loved one. what if it was you that passed? does your family know that you'd want the bare bones in burial and even if they do, do they have your estimated $500 to cover it? what if you and your hubby passed together such as a car accident? would your kids be able to (financially) and know how to take care of you and your husbands burial? do they not need any money other than what's in your bank account currently to survive in the short and long term? insurance is clearly for those left behind, not the person who has died so i see it as a way to limit someone burden should i pass.

    ***eta these were all rhetorical questions that do not need to be answered, just posed for discussion purposes.***
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    please recycle, it matters...
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  • PixieCurlPixieCurl Posts: 5,656Registered Users
    What exactly is it that you'll need money for? I understand that his finances are complicated and you'll need information to sort them out. Has he already granted you power of attorney in his will? If so, as much as it won't be a fun conversation, I'd sit down with him and ask him for detailed paperwork outlining all his assets/finances, and his wishes for them when he passes. As far as what you'll need money for.... attorney, funeral.... anything else? If you'd be paying the premiums on his life insurance policy, you may be better off just investing that money instead so you'll have it set aside when the time comes. Since you have no way of knowing when he'll pass away, maybe you could invest in something like a CD so the money is earning a little more interest than a regular savings account, but will still be relatively liquid. It just seems that at his age and in the absence of an exam, the premiums will be so high that your money might serve you better in another way.
    Faith, 3Aish redhead
    Mama to two wild superheroes and a curly-headed baby boy :love5:
  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users
    luvmylocs wrote: »
    If anyone I love dies and I get to plan the funeral, they're getting: a casket from Costco (or a piece of plywood and a bolt of linen to wrap), a viewing and memorial service in my living room, a trip to the crematory in the back of my truck, and a vase for the ashes from Pier1 Outlet. Total cost: under $500.

    your choice which you are entitled to. everyone doesn't feel that way. there are certain costs even to be cremated (i don't know what they are) but i suspect it's at least in the hundreds.

    plus that's your view on how you would handle a loved one. what if it was you that passed? does your family know that you'd want the bare bones in burial and even if they do, do they have your estimated $500 to cover it? what if you and your hubby passed together such as a car accident? would your kids be able to (financially) and know how to take care of you and your husbands burial? do they not need any money other than what's in your bank account currently to survive in the short and long term? insurance is clearly for those left behind, not the person who has died so i see it as a way to limit someone burden should i pass.


    Oh, I agree. My kids are still young and do need money, so we have life insurance. I've thought about getting a policy on my ex husband also, because I depend on some of his money and I know he doesn't have me listed as a beneficiary on any of his stuff. I'm just playing devil's advocate to the OP. Her dad isn't all that old and he's apparently married, so the onus probably won't fall on her for quite some time, if at all.
  • PixieCurlPixieCurl Posts: 5,656Registered Users
    I also agree with luvmylocs about life insurance in general. My husband and I both have 30-year term policies that we got in our 20's - as she said because we locked in low rates due to our age and good health. Plus, heaven forbid anything should happen to one of us while we're young. Our main reason for having it is to cover our mortgage/bills and caring for our children. Especially since I'm a SAHM, we have equal levels of coverage so that - if invested properly - if DH passes I can continue to be home with our children, or if I pass he can stop working and stay home with them. When our term policies expire in our mid-late 50's, our hope is that we won't need another policy because we'll have invested our money wisely in other ways (retirement funds, etc).
    Faith, 3Aish redhead
    Mama to two wild superheroes and a curly-headed baby boy :love5:
  • scrillsscrills Posts: 6,700Registered Users
    If anyone I love dies and I get to plan the funeral, they're getting: a casket from Costco (or a piece of plywood and a bolt of linen to wrap), a viewing and memorial service in my living room, a trip to the crematory in the back of my truck, and a vase for the ashes from Pier1 Outlet. Total cost: under $500.

    Ha! I was joking with my aunt that if my dad doesn't want the policy, everyone better be OK with me doing something just like this. My mother, sister and his SO would kill me (but I currently have a policy so at least the funeral would be paid for :pl:)

    My father doesn't have a will/power of attorney. Simply putting the money away is a good idea. I would need enough to handle burial and legal.

    Technically, my dad isn't married. For legal reason (in case of separation) my dad refuses to get married again. he said he's not paying anymore alimony. So they just exchanged rings. She also has 3 young children.
  • PixieCurlPixieCurl Posts: 5,656Registered Users
    scrills wrote: »
    My father doesn't have a will/power of attorney.

    If he expects you to handle everything when he dies, I would insist that he get this stuff taken care of. Even if you have to pay the legal fees yourself.
    Faith, 3Aish redhead
    Mama to two wild superheroes and a curly-headed baby boy :love5:
  • jeepcurlygurljeepcurlygurl Posts: 19,251Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    If anyone I love dies and I get to plan the funeral, they're getting: a casket from Costco (or a piece of plywood and a bolt of linen to wrap), a viewing and memorial service in my living room, a trip to the crematory in the back of my truck, and a vase for the ashes from Pier1 Outlet. Total cost: under $500.

    Same here. If that loved one wants me to take care of the details and wants more, they better have the money in the bank and easily accessible to me or they're getting what I can afford to pay for immediately.

    I have mine all planned and in writing. One of my ex's is in charge and knows exactly what I want. We discuss this once a year and he get's updated copies of all my papers. No casket, nothing at a funeral home. No service. A party at my house, and my ashes dumped into my favorite local lake. 500 bucks tops.

    But again, if someone wants a $20,000 funeral I'd be happy to take care of it as long as the money is available.

    If people are buying life insurance to pay for their funerals, there is a better way. Having a 'paid in full' account at the funeral home of their choice is a great thing. I take care of an old lady who has no family. She's all paid up and ready. I call the funeral home and it's all taken care of. All I have to do is make sure her cat is buried with her. Not still alive of course. : )

    I'm the executor for my parents and one aunt and uncle. They all have their headstones in place and ready. I'm working on getting their obituaries written and other stuff taken care of. And they know, if they want a fancy funeral, they better get me some cash to do it.
    --I'm located in Western PA.
    --I found NC in late 2004, CG since February 2005, started going grey in late 2005.
    --My hair is 3B with some 3A, texture-medium/fine, porosity-normal except for the ends which are porous, elasticity-normal.
    --My long time favorite products are Suave & VO5 conditioners, LA Looks Sport Gel, oils, honey, vinegar.
    --My CG and grey hair progress -- http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/going-gray/179328-jeepys-grey-hair-progress.html
  • luvmylocsluvmylocs Posts: 7,578Registered Users
    If people are buying life insurance to pay for their funerals, there is a better way. Having a 'paid in full' account at the funeral home of their choice is a great thing. I take care of an old lady who has no family. She's all paid up and ready. I call the funeral home and it's all taken care of. All I have to do is make sure her cat is buried with her. Not still alive of course. : )

    just want to say that is an honorable thing for you to do!!! okay i'm confused about the cat. if she dies and the cat hasn't died what are you to do? i'm just being nosey ;-)

    also, while paid in full is a great idea, i would be a little cautious of that because businesses do go under and then you'd be out of luck. again, it's a worst case scenario but it could happen especially since funeral homes are often just a like any other small business.
    a dreamy pisces :fish:
    please recycle, it matters...
    i change lives...through fitness
    i'm more relaxed being natural
  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users
    luvmylocs wrote: »
    If people are buying life insurance to pay for their funerals, there is a better way. Having a 'paid in full' account at the funeral home of their choice is a great thing. I take care of an old lady who has no family. She's all paid up and ready. I call the funeral home and it's all taken care of. All I have to do is make sure her cat is buried with her. Not still alive of course. : )

    just want to say that is an honorable thing for you to do!!! okay i'm confused about the cat. if she dies and the cat hasn't died what are you to do? i'm just being nosey ;-)

    also, while paid in full is a great idea, i would be a little cautious of that because businesses do go under and then you'd be out of luck. again, it's a worst case scenario but it could happen especially since funeral homes are often just a like any other small business.


    The funeral industry is notorious for fraud. Funeral homes have been known to not put the pre-need funds into escrow/trust funds, but rather just spending it and then going out of business and all the people who pre-paid are screwed. Many states have been very lax on their oversight of the funeral industry.
  • jeepcurlygurljeepcurlygurl Posts: 19,251Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    luvmylocs wrote: »
    If people are buying life insurance to pay for their funerals, there is a better way. Having a 'paid in full' account at the funeral home of their choice is a great thing. I take care of an old lady who has no family. She's all paid up and ready. I call the funeral home and it's all taken care of. All I have to do is make sure her cat is buried with her. Not still alive of course. : )

    just want to say that is an honorable thing for you to do!!! okay i'm confused about the cat. if she dies and the cat hasn't died what are you to do? i'm just being nosey ;-)

    also, while paid in full is a great idea, i would be a little cautious of that because businesses do go under and then you'd be out of luck. again, it's a worst case scenario but it could happen especially since funeral homes are often just a like any other small business.


    The funeral industry is notorious for fraud. Funeral homes have been known to not put the pre-need funds into escrow/trust funds, but rather just spending it and then going out of business and all the people who pre-paid are screwed. Many states have been very lax on their oversight of the funeral industry.

    That's true. The same can be said for the insurance industry.

    I guess living in a town where the funeral homes have been around and in the same families for a couple hundred years, I never think of them going out of business or screwing their neighbors out of their money. It's sure possible, but not probable.
    I don't plan on using a funeral home at all, just a quick trip to the crematorium. But most people still want the funeral home deal and I still think pre-paid is a viable option. And no waiting for the money from insurance policies, estates, frozen bank accounts.

    RE: the cat. She is an old cat and if my friend happens to die first, the cat will be put to sleep, cremated and buried with her.

    Sorry for the side track. Back to insurance talk.
    --I'm located in Western PA.
    --I found NC in late 2004, CG since February 2005, started going grey in late 2005.
    --My hair is 3B with some 3A, texture-medium/fine, porosity-normal except for the ends which are porous, elasticity-normal.
    --My long time favorite products are Suave & VO5 conditioners, LA Looks Sport Gel, oils, honey, vinegar.
    --My CG and grey hair progress -- http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/going-gray/179328-jeepys-grey-hair-progress.html
  • mrspoppersmrspoppers Posts: 7,223Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    My inlaws prepaid their funeral expenses 10+ years ago. When my FIL died last summer, the funeral policy really came in handy. Since the account had earned so much interest over the years, MIL got a check for $6,000 that was left over after the cremation and interment were paid for.

    I think it's great that some people are ok with DIY burials. However, most of us prefer to pay someone else to take care of it. Funeral policies aren't all bad and not all funeral homes are frauds.
    When are women going to face the fact that they don’t know their own bodies as well as men who have heard things?

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    Bonsai Culturist
  • LotsawavesLotsawaves Posts: 8,660Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I recently got a $10K policy from AARP. No physical was necessary. It's cheap, about $25 per month and will go up, a little, every 5 years until I'm 80. I worry that I may die at 81.

    I've already let my daughter know that I am a donor. After that I want to be cremated. I don't really care what they do with the ashes. It would be nice to put them in the ground and plant a tree over them.
    From Michael Berg:

    Every person has a unique connection to the Creator that can never be extinguished, and every person has a great soul that can manifest important things in our world. To make a person feel less than they are because of something inside themselves, be it faith, race, or sexual orientation, is the greatest sin of all."