I so need help

medusahairmedusahair Registered Users Posts: 3,515
I read and read but I'm stuck. Here's my delima.
If I conditioner wash and then style with cg friendly no protein stuffs I get a crispy layer on the top. I thought it was too much gel but it only happens if I co wash and not if I no sulfate poo. It feels like someone poured honey in my hair and let it dry.
Also I get so much frizz, which is weird because frizz isn't my problem.

Ok but the frizz I could wait out to see if it went away but my hair gets over conditioned. Just the top, the bottom will get nice ringlets and look happy as a clam.

Now from all my reading does this top part only thing mean I need to clearify before going cg?

I have fine hair but lots of it, 3a on a good day (I think?) and 2 something on a less curly day.

I conditioner washed with a vo5 clarifying cg friendly conditoner, also I've used the coconut suave. My scalp is really clean and my scalp isn't oily. I let the conditioner sit for the time i'm in the shower, warm rinse.

Then I put in a conditioner, rinse out (colder water), and suave coconut as a leave in from the top of my ears down.

I then squish in [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/DevaCare-Arc-AnGell-p-567.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=devacurl-devacare-arc-angell]Arc Angell[/buylink] and let air dry, scrunch out any crunch I have very gently.

Do ya'll see any problems here? Oh and I have hard water I believe, red stuff and blue? on my shower head ew.

I tried acv rinse but I can't do that daily it is drying. Lemon is the same.

TIA for any help anyone can give!
2c/3a?
Low porosity, medium texture.
http://public.fotki.com/Medusahair/

If it smells good put it in your hair, if it tastes good spit it out!
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Comments

  • internetchickinternetchick Registered Users Posts: 6,191
    If just the top os getting frizzy, perhaps that part doesn't have enough moisture? I started putting condish on the part that gets frizzy when I condition my hair, instead of only applying it upsode down. That helped a lot. I did not find the VO5 or Suave to be good for anything other than co-washing, I needed a seperate conditioner. Do you leave-in any condish? How much product do you use? Perhaps your hair is reacting to hard water. Besides getting a shower filter, you could try sulfate free pooing every so often.
  • KaiaKaia Registered Users Posts: 8,815 Curl Connoisseur
    If you are getting overconditioned, cut back on the co-washes. My hair started getting majorly overconditioned, and I have all but stopped co-washing. I use a sulfate-free poo once or twice a week, and the other days, I just rinse thoroughly and condition. Daily co-washing is just too much for my fine hair. If the top is getting overconditioned, try just putting enough condish there to detangle and just coat your ends with conditioner. HTH
    *Poster formerly known as Bailey422*

    Here's all you have to know about men and women: women are crazy, men are stupid. And the main reason women are crazy is that men are stupid. ~ George Carlin
  • medusahairmedusahair Registered Users Posts: 3,515
    Thanks for the quick replies!

    Internetchick I'm trying Elucence for a leave in but it's a bit heavy for me, I'm waiting on my [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/DevaCurl-BLeave-In-p-434.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=devacurl-bleavein]B'leave in[/buylink] to get here. When I put conditioner on the top it's like an oil slick. And my scalp isn't oily. It's like the condtioner just sits on top of my hair there.

    Both of ya'll are probably right, I'm easily over conditioned and my water is part of the problem? I hope that's it, the water I mean because I'm in search of a water filter right now.

    I can't even get a lather from soap so I guess I shouldn't expect to be able to rinse things out properly.

    Bailey422, the rinse (second day hair is eluding me right now) is my ideal but like the conditoner wash it seems like everything doesn't rinse out.

    I'll try to find a water filter for the shower today and I'll try a new leave in and see if that does it.

    What a mess my hair is, ya'll don't even want to know!

    Thanks so much for the help!
    2c/3a?
    Low porosity, medium texture.
    http://public.fotki.com/Medusahair/

    If it smells good put it in your hair, if it tastes good spit it out!
  • medusahairmedusahair Registered Users Posts: 3,515
    I'm sorry, you asked how much product do I use? If we're talkikng styler here I use two quarters of [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/DevaCare-Arc-AnGell-p-567.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=devacurl-devacare-arc-angell]Arc Angell[/buylink] in my hair. I smooth some on my underside and each side and top and squish it in.


    I did a no sulfate poo and put my vinegar water in with it and let it sit, then conditioned with Elucence MB and let it sit and then rinsed with cool water and put a pea size of the elucence back in, top and all. I hope that helped. My hair is curlier but it's not dry yet so I have to wait to see the results (takes a couple of hours to air dry)

    I did use curls souffle today under my gel, it's moisturizing so hopefully I didn't overdo it. So far so good though. Nothing feels stiff or dry or greasy, no weird frizz sticking out either.

    I don't want to no sulfate poo daily if I don't have to. I'd rather find that elusive second day hair or water rinse and condition. something so that my hair can do it's thing. It gets curlier if I water rinse but after a few days of that I got gunky and my top got stiff. My cue to wash I guess.
    2c/3a?
    Low porosity, medium texture.
    http://public.fotki.com/Medusahair/

    If it smells good put it in your hair, if it tastes good spit it out!
  • JuicyTubeJuicyTube Registered Users Posts: 2,369
    so did you use sulfates before starting?
    3b-3c CG
  • medusahairmedusahair Registered Users Posts: 3,515
    No I"ve been using a no sulfate shampoo for a while now. It's the J/A/S/O/N seaweed one, and the rosewater
    I only ever used dep sports gel in my hair and no conditioner. Nothing else actually.

    I didn't become a PJ until I started encouraging my curl instead of just letting it poof out from lack of moisture.
    2c/3a?
    Low porosity, medium texture.
    http://public.fotki.com/Medusahair/

    If it smells good put it in your hair, if it tastes good spit it out!
  • medusahairmedusahair Registered Users Posts: 3,515
    I just realized I used KMS curl conditioner when I first started doing a rinse out, I wonder if that had something in it.
    2c/3a?
    Low porosity, medium texture.
    http://public.fotki.com/Medusahair/

    If it smells good put it in your hair, if it tastes good spit it out!
  • medusahairmedusahair Registered Users Posts: 3,515
    In case anyone is watching and having similar problems,,,,,,,, I checked KMS, seems ok?

    I got some weird crispy hair in a spot but I think this time it could be the combination of my gel and the curls souffle so I'll try it tomnorrow without gel.

    I have worn the CS without getl, and the gel without it fine so maybe it's that.
    Now if I can rinse it out and my hair be fine I'd be one happy camper. I've done this in the past with other products so I know it's possible.

    The quest goes on :D
    2c/3a?
    Low porosity, medium texture.
    http://public.fotki.com/Medusahair/

    If it smells good put it in your hair, if it tastes good spit it out!
  • mayimmayim Registered Users Posts: 2,301
    suave coconut and kms condish both have significant amounts of protein in them. elucence has protein too. it may indeed be protein build up.

    m
    coarse, thick 3a
    modified cg



    weight.png



  • medusahairmedusahair Registered Users Posts: 3,515
    Dang and I thought I finally found a conditioner I might like.
    I have [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/DevaCurl-BLeave-In-p-434.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=devacurl-bleavein]B'leave in[/buylink] coming. I sure hope it doesn't have it in there so I can use that and tell if that's what's going on.

    It's like umm sticky straw. Kind of tangley. I could sure do without it.

    Thanks for the help, I need to study the protein names more so I can identify them in the conditioner looks like
    2c/3a?
    Low porosity, medium texture.
    http://public.fotki.com/Medusahair/

    If it smells good put it in your hair, if it tastes good spit it out!
  • mayimmayim Registered Users Posts: 2,301
    medusahair wrote:
    It's like umm sticky straw. Kind of tangley.


    yup, that's exactly what protein build up feels like.

    m
    coarse, thick 3a
    modified cg



    weight.png



  • medusahairmedusahair Registered Users Posts: 3,515
    Ahhh well that explains a lot.
    Can I get the protein off without clarfying shampoo or should I clarify and start CG over with fresh hair?

    Man I'm glad it's just that, I was starting to think my hair was a freak of nature.
    2c/3a?
    Low porosity, medium texture.
    http://public.fotki.com/Medusahair/

    If it smells good put it in your hair, if it tastes good spit it out!
  • mayimmayim Registered Users Posts: 2,301
    whenever i had protein build up (perhaps it was just overload?) i found that just laying off the protein resolved things fairly quickly. you might try a clarifying rinse like diluted acv, or lemon with condish, or even very diluted baking soda - any of these followed by a dt. hopefully it will resolve, if that's what it is.

    m
    coarse, thick 3a
    modified cg



    weight.png



  • RedCurly1RedCurly1 Registered Users Posts: 14
    I was gonna mention the protien thing, my hair did the exact same thing with the Suave Coconut condish, once I stopped using it the problem went away.
    I remember when I lost my mind - there was something so pleasant about that place - gnarles barkley
    3a with 3b underneath CG since end of July 2006
    Current favorites - CK, HE SMU, ACV Rinces, Honey
  • medusahairmedusahair Registered Users Posts: 3,515
    I'll acv and baking soda today and leave off the Co with the proteins in it. I wonder if I can rotate them in now and then? I so love the way Elucence leaves the bottom part of my hair but boy the top canopy is sure not good. Ah trial and error.

    I'll find a new condish to wash with too. I have VO5 lime something, it's a clarifying one. I just got some low poo on the swap board to be safe.

    Thanks so much for your help!
    2c/3a?
    Low porosity, medium texture.
    http://public.fotki.com/Medusahair/

    If it smells good put it in your hair, if it tastes good spit it out!
  • mayimmayim Registered Users Posts: 2,301
    medusahair wrote:
    I'll acv and baking soda today and leave off the Co with the proteins in it. I wonder if I can rotate them in now and then? I so love the way Elucence leaves the bottom part of my hair but boy the top canopy is sure not good. Ah trial and error.

    I'll find a new condish to wash with too. I have VO5 lime something, it's a clarifying one. I just got some low poo on the swap board to be safe.

    Thanks so much for your help!

    i would not do acv and baking soda in one day. that would be way too harsh for your hair. i would do one or the other. be careful about clarifying too much. i have heard that the v05 kiwi lime can be drying to some, so i would watch that.

    what i would do is eliminate all proteins, see if things improve (that way you can pin it down to that), then add one thing back in to see how your hair responds. elimintating variables usually helps me pinpoint problems.
    i have found that it doesn't take long for my hair to reject protein if i add it back in. since cg, my hair is just too healthy to need it.

    m
    coarse, thick 3a
    modified cg



    weight.png



  • medusahairmedusahair Registered Users Posts: 3,515
    I guess I best go in search of a new conditioner to wash with.
    Thanks for the warning about over clarifying and the conditioner.

    Man that so sucks about the protein in Elucence. I'll try it a while without it and see if that does the trick before I send it to the swap board. I'd hate to lose it but I'd love to have good hair days. A good hair day just makes my entire day.

    Thanks again!
    2c/3a?
    Low porosity, medium texture.
    http://public.fotki.com/Medusahair/

    If it smells good put it in your hair, if it tastes good spit it out!
  • mayimmayim Registered Users Posts: 2,301
    like i said, many people have had no problems with the protein in elucence, so you might eliminate all proteins for a while (to pinpoint that as the cause) then add only it back in to see if your hair does okay with it. if it starts to have the same symptoms again, you will know that your hair can't deal with that particular protein either.

    i think there is a list on the board somewhere of protein-free cg friendly conditioners, so you can find something to wash with.

    right now i am using nature's gate herbal condish. it is protein free.

    hth!

    m
    coarse, thick 3a
    modified cg



    weight.png



  • internetchickinternetchick Registered Users Posts: 6,191
    When you do add protein back, do only 1 at a time. You may find yoruself sensitive to some but not other.
  • medusahairmedusahair Registered Users Posts: 3,515
    I coudn't hang with the nasty hair anymore so I did a jasons poo.
    the spot on the back of my head isn't as stiff and frizzy but still there so I bet ya'll are right it's buildup.
    I guess I'll follow the wavy routine for a bit until I figure out my routine.

    I have more contioner for a rinse out coming but it hasn't gotten here yet dang it! Everything BUT that got here. I'll see if I can refresh my hair for the next few days or just water rinse until it gets here.

    In the mean time Saturday I'll be on the hunt for a protein free conditioner to use to cleanse...
    Any suggestions?
    2c/3a?
    Low porosity, medium texture.
    http://public.fotki.com/Medusahair/

    If it smells good put it in your hair, if it tastes good spit it out!
  • internetchickinternetchick Registered Users Posts: 6,191
    White Rain regular line is great for cleaning(was not fond of the Naturals).
  • medusahairmedusahair Registered Users Posts: 3,515
    Thanks so much, I'll look for that!
    2c/3a?
    Low porosity, medium texture.
    http://public.fotki.com/Medusahair/

    If it smells good put it in your hair, if it tastes good spit it out!
  • EilonwyEilonwy Registered Users Posts: 12,391 Curl Connoisseur
    Have you checked if Jason shampoos have silicones? I know their conditioners do. BTW, I like Pantene's clarifying poo, if you can't find any White Rain.
  • medusahairmedusahair Registered Users Posts: 3,515
    The shampoo doesn't have silicones. I'm hoping my no poo and low poo hurries up and I can use those, the jessicurl cleansers seemd to put oils into my hair which I didn't need.

    I have silicone free products or water soluable ones (devacurl) It seems to be the protein I'm wrestling with

    Thanks for the silicone reminder though :D
    2c/3a?
    Low porosity, medium texture.
    http://public.fotki.com/Medusahair/

    If it smells good put it in your hair, if it tastes good spit it out!
  • Oregano  (formerly babywavy)Oregano (formerly babywavy) Registered Users Posts: 5,297 Curl Neophyte
    Just wanted to let you know that [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/DevaCurl-BLeave-In-p-434.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=devacurl-bleavein]B'Leave In[/buylink] DOES have proteins in it. You may find that you can do okay w/ proteins as long as you rinse them out. I don't always notice proteins unless they're left in my hair.

    Another suggestion, even when you're co-washing, you're still conditioning your hair, so you may not want to co-wash every day, and you may not want to leave it on your scalp if your not scrubbing.

    Certain areas of your hair are going to absorb moisture slower than others. If you're trying to flood your hair w/ moisture all at once to compensate for drying you've done in the past, your going to have areas that get built up b/c it can't absorb quick enough.
    ~ the artist formerly known as babywavy ~

    Please excuse any typos. For the time being, we are blaming it on my computer.
  • medusahairmedusahair Registered Users Posts: 3,515
    thanks for the heads up about [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/DevaCurl-BLeave-In-p-434.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=devacurl-bleavein]B'leave in[/buylink]. No one smack me but I poo'd with a sulfate shampoo to get the weird freaky crisp area out. That did the trick. So I'll have to make a fresh start on CG dang it. My hair is dryer but at least that stuff is gone.

    I used [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/DevaCurl-BLeave-In-p-434.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=devacurl-bleavein]B'leave in[/buylink] and [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/DevaCare-Arc-AnGell-p-567.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=devacurl-devacare-arc-angell]Arc Angell[/buylink] today so I'll get to see if it builds up. I'm dry the next day but I think I can spritz with something finally to get second day hair, I'll find out tomorrow.

    I rinse most days and co wash about every fourth day. Sometimes I'm lucky and water doesn't have to hit my head at all.

    Thanks for reminding me not all my hair will soak up stuff the same, it makes sense I guess I just didn't think about that. I overdid my Curl Junkie conditioner, the rinse out kind just a tad today compensating for the sulfate poo but I just have less curl, nothing too drastic.

    Whew I'll be glad when I get a routine down. Thanks for your help babywavy and man does your hair look good! I'll take a head of hair like that please :D
    2c/3a?
    Low porosity, medium texture.
    http://public.fotki.com/Medusahair/

    If it smells good put it in your hair, if it tastes good spit it out!
  • internetchickinternetchick Registered Users Posts: 6,191
    I shampooed several times before getting the hang of CG and getting a routine down. No biggie :wink:
  • medusahairmedusahair Registered Users Posts: 3,515
    Very cool, cause I"m back in the swing today. I rinsed my hair rather than try to smooth down the frizz and conditioned and used a creme styler (man I hope bumble and bumble curl creme is ok, I knew the iso bouncy creme wasn't) and Auro hypo gel. So far so good whew! Nice to be back!
    2c/3a?
    Low porosity, medium texture.
    http://public.fotki.com/Medusahair/

    If it smells good put it in your hair, if it tastes good spit it out!
  • medusahairmedusahair Registered Users Posts: 3,515
    Just an update, Ok so I made it ONE day doing the water rinse and now I CW with the lime squeeze and put a heavier conditioner in. My hair seems happier with that if I can just not overdo it.
    The top of my hair has some wave now so I assume it needed the conditioner. I have got to learn to use one or two products in my hair and not try and make a better hair day later with things oy! Hence the CW wash today :oops:

    Anyway I just wanted to update since ya'll have been so cool about helping me.
    So far so good. I'd like to get the sebum to coat my hair, the hair undrneath is so nice but I'm not sure how to do that and still have products in my hair and still wet it some of the time. I noticed even on a CW wash day it seems to wash it away. Maybe I'll just tough it out a week and then CW and see how it goes. I'll have to see if I'm that brave :)
    2c/3a?
    Low porosity, medium texture.
    http://public.fotki.com/Medusahair/

    If it smells good put it in your hair, if it tastes good spit it out!
  • internetchickinternetchick Registered Users Posts: 6,191
    Well that's good that you're getting some preogress. Maybe scalp massage might help to get the sebum to coat your hair.

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