CurlTalk

Porousity article

In a word, WOW! What an amazingly informative and detailed article! A great intersection of science and layman's terms!

http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/curlchemist-porosity-and-curly-hair
2b w/ some 3a
product tester geek
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Comments

  • LoloDSMLoloDSM Posts: 3,778Registered Users
    I agree. It was very interesting and finally cleared up my confusion about porosity. Her description of low porous hair as being shiny and difficult to wet sounds like mine.

    I also thought it was interesting about the soap bars.
    Loose botticelli curls and waves
    No silicones/no sulfates since March 2008
  • StarmieStarmie Posts: 6,677Registered Users Curl Dabbler
    I agree too, it finally makes sense to me (always a bit slow on the uptake here!). I think I can safely say my hair is porous, maybe now I can start doing something right for it.
    3b in South Australia.
  • curry curlscurry curls Posts: 969Registered Users Curl Dabbler
    Starmie wrote: »
    I agree too, it finally makes sense to me (always a bit slow on the uptake here!). I think I can safely say my hair is porous, maybe now I can start doing something right for it.

    Same here. Great article!
    Started CG July 8, 2008 :)


    3[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Co-wash: Trader Joe's Tea Tree Tingle or Trader Joe's Nourish Spa
    Rinse out: Ion Effective Care Treatment
    Leave-in/Styling: Alba Botanica leave in with Kenra Moisturizing Conditioner :love2: on top
  • jillipoojillipoo Posts: 3,795Registered Users
    Yes, an excellent article, for sure. I wonder what impact the soap bar information will have on the community here?
    3a and strictly CG since August 2007. Porous and on the fine side. No to magnesium sulfate and glycerin. Yes to protein! Favorites:
    CO-WASHES: Suave Coconut
    CONDITIONERS and LEAVE-INS: Mop Top Daily Conditioner, KBB Nectar, Aubrey GPB or Island Naturals, Robert Craig, Any Jessicurl
    CURL ENHANCERS/CREMES/MOUSSES: KCCC, JoiWhip
    GELS: Fuzzy Duck, B5 Design, MGA Scultping, BRHG


    Fotki password: chuckle
    Blog: /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fjillipoo.blogspot.com%2F" class="Popup
    Twitter: nopoojillipoo
  • DEL2CDEL2C Posts: 6,418Registered Users
    GREAT ARTICLE!!! :thumbup:

    I think those that are using soap bars without any issues will continue to do so unless they experience problems. For me, I'm done. I haven't used a bar or DW in a very long time and I don't miss it. In the colder weather they tightened my curl pattern which I loved but it's just not worth any future damage to my hair. A lot of us have done away with the CG label and have concentrated instead on doing what's healthy for our hair. For those who haven't tried them they need to educate themselves and weigh the consequences. If you are already porous, have damaged or dry hair it's not a good idea..:sad3: knowing your hair properties is the only way to make informed decisions about how to care for your locks.
    Discovered CG 2007

    2C Fia BSL/Thick/Med-Coarse/Low(crown)-Normal Porosity Protein and Oil Sensitive

    Link-Spritz & Condish Washing:glasses7:

    I'm aCurlJunkieJunky :love4:

    My hair LOVES Coconut DESPISES Soap Bars :tongue6:


    CJRehab or H&B Fix, Deva NO POO, EO Rose & Cham POO & Condish, CJ CurlFix, CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB, SS FHG, KCCC, BRHG, AG Mousse Gel, ACV Rinses,Shikakai Conditioning Hair Rinse.
  • jillipoojillipoo Posts: 3,795Registered Users
    DEL2C wrote: »
    GREAT ARTICLE!!! :thumbup:

    I think those that are using soap bars without any issues will continue to do so unless they experience problems. For me, I'm done. I haven't used a bar or DW in a very long time and I don't miss it. In the colder weather they tightened my curl pattern which I loved but it's just not worth any future damage to my hair. A lot of us have done away with the CG label and have concentrated instead on doing what's healthy for our hair. For those who haven't tried them they need to educate themselves and weigh the consequences. If you are already porous, have damaged or dry hair it's not a good idea..:sad3: knowing your hair properties is the only way to make informed decisions about how to care for your locks.

    Well said, deltoosie!
    3a and strictly CG since August 2007. Porous and on the fine side. No to magnesium sulfate and glycerin. Yes to protein! Favorites:
    CO-WASHES: Suave Coconut
    CONDITIONERS and LEAVE-INS: Mop Top Daily Conditioner, KBB Nectar, Aubrey GPB or Island Naturals, Robert Craig, Any Jessicurl
    CURL ENHANCERS/CREMES/MOUSSES: KCCC, JoiWhip
    GELS: Fuzzy Duck, B5 Design, MGA Scultping, BRHG


    Fotki password: chuckle
    Blog: /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fjillipoo.blogspot.com%2F" class="Popup
    Twitter: nopoojillipoo
  • bak2wavybak2wavy Posts: 69Registered Users
    Great article! I only used the soap bars in my hair maybe 2x a month, but I've decided I'm retiring them from my hair and will use them up as body bars :)

    2 B/C Coarse Normal to High Porosity


    Low Poo/Condish: CJ Daily Fix, CJ CR, CJ CA Gentle Cleansing Shampoo, CJ CA Smoothing Lotion
    Styling: HESMU, BRHG, CJ CCCC-lite, CJ CIAB, CJ AFL, Ecostyler Krystal
  • curlyjenn10curlyjenn10 Posts: 2,034Registered Users
    jillipoo wrote: »
    DEL2C wrote: »
    GREAT ARTICLE!!! :thumbup:

    I think those that are using soap bars without any issues will continue to do so unless they experience problems. For me, I'm done. I haven't used a bar or DW in a very long time and I don't miss it. In the colder weather they tightened my curl pattern which I loved but it's just not worth any future damage to my hair. A lot of us have done away with the CG label and have concentrated instead on doing what's healthy for our hair. For those who haven't tried them they need to educate themselves and weigh the consequences. If you are already porous, have damaged or dry hair it's not a good idea..:sad3: knowing your hair properties is the only way to make informed decisions about how to care for your locks.

    Well said, deltoosie!

    Ditto! Too bad I found that out the hard way!
  • kathymackkathymack Posts: 9,999Registered Users
    jillipoo wrote: »
    Yes, an excellent article, for sure. I wonder what impact the soap bar information will have on the community here?

    Sept 1 will be one year using soap bars for me. I've experienced no problems to date. I feel that they are the single most important thing I've done for my hair and will continue to use them.
    3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
    SE PA

    HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Aloe Fix
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • DeodandDeodand Posts: 159Registered Users
    Thanks for the linky. One thing the author referred to is that lower porosity hair is hard to style. I've struggled with this my whole life - and learned that I have to go in the direction my hair is taking me, not the other way around. No amount of styling product will keep my hair from returning to its native state.:angry5:
    2B low porosity low elasticity fine texture
    I'm not CG - tried it and failed for two years. My scalp hates it.
  • wavycurly40+wavycurly40+ Posts: 2,017Registered Users
    That was a really good article.... but I still don't know how to tell for sure if I have normal or high porosity.

    That information about what percent of your hair's overall weight it can absorb in water was interesting, but what am I gonna do: weigh myself with wet and dry hair and subtract? (wait: that's not a bad idea....)

    I think I just need to find somebody with a microscope, so I can look at my hair under it! Does anybody know someone?? Send them my way! :toothy10:

    Wurly and proud!
    Modified CG since 2008.
  • redcelticcurlsredcelticcurls Posts: 17,502Registered Users
    That was one of the best articles ever, and that is saying something as all of her articles are good.
    Kiva! Microfinance works.

    Med/Coarse, porous curly.
  • redcelticcurlsredcelticcurls Posts: 17,502Registered Users
    jillipoo wrote: »
    Yes, an excellent article, for sure. I wonder what impact the soap bar information will have on the community here?

    I suppose those that love them will still use them, and some non-porous folks will still experiment with them.

    Me? I'm porous enough; so I'll stay with what I have.
    Kiva! Microfinance works.

    Med/Coarse, porous curly.
  • misspammisspam Posts: 5,318Registered Users
    Excellent article. I do use the Whispering Windz Jar Soap on my hair 2 - 3 times a month and wonder how that product compares to the soap/shampoo bars? Since the jar soap is not saponified, does that make a difference? My hair is medium porosity, and my stylist always says my hair is very healthy. :-?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • DiamondsCurlsDiamondsCurls Posts: 167Registered Users
    so i think im a low to normal but im not 100% its still a bit confusing...i wish i could get a curl consultation
    :afro:
    Hair Type: 3b-c/m/i
    HGs:KCKT KCCC
    Using:cowash VO5, TJ Nurish, orGVP PM Detandler condish/l.i. KCKT, stylers EcoStyler or ORS L&T, SheaButter Coconut Oil or EVOO seal, DT amla or brahmi powder ,DC AOHR, Henna, Multi+Biotin+FishOil+Probiotic
    Want 2 Try: Qhem Curls
    formerly KinkzNCurlz
  • goobernutgoobernut Posts: 2,317Registered Users
    I was just wondering about this today. I've noticed that my hair curls better after doing an acidic type rinse (or use Roux Porosity control). I was wondering if it was because I have hard water, or if I have perhaps mis-diagnosed myself. I think the hair that grows out the top of my head is easily highly porous. Everything else -- above my ears, and back of head is normal. I have noticed the hairs out of the top of my head are also flat :)

    This is fascinating stuff.

    So, RCC, since you've known you're a porous, how often do you use an acidifiying rinse? I know that some people suggest only doing an ACV rinse at most 2x a month, and others do it all the time.

    How many of you porous girlies add lemon juice or ACV to your conditioner to add acidity?
    Grand Goobah Caedran, Aqueous Infusion of Demulcents, Order of the Curly Crusaders

    Fia 2cFi, fine texture, med porosity CG 5-29-09 * My hair loves protein! Currently using : DermOrganics Shampoo and IHM, G2B Kinkier Mousse, Re:Coil VMM, Anything Spiral Solutions! MO Sealing. Coconut Oil Pre-Poo, once a month Hard Water shampoo. Avoiding Glycerin in finishing products.
  • redcelticcurlsredcelticcurls Posts: 17,502Registered Users
    I do it once a week. It really, really, help, especially in the higher humidity I can get in the summer. I pulled of third day hair yesterday with dews around 70.
    Kiva! Microfinance works.

    Med/Coarse, porous curly.
  • StarmieStarmie Posts: 6,677Registered Users Curl Dabbler
    goobernut - I put ACV in with my conditioner sometimes as I find it less smelly and messy than doing a rinse. It seems to help smooth things down, I really should do it more often but I forget to take the stuff into the shower with me (sooo not a morning person!).
    3b in South Australia.
  • laurabeth33laurabeth33 Posts: 1,443Registered Users
    That was a really good article.... but I still don't know how to tell for sure if I have normal or high porosity.

    That information about what percent of your hair's overall weight it can absorb in water was interesting, but what am I gonna do: weigh myself with wet and dry hair and subtract? (wait: that's not a bad idea....)

    I think I just need to find somebody with a microscope, so I can look at my hair under it! Does anybody know someone?? Send them my way! :toothy10:

    I was just thinking that I needed to go by some science-type store or educational supply store to see if I could find a microscope display.
    2b w/ some 3a
    product tester geek
  • Curly83Curly83 Posts: 140Registered Users
    I am so confused now. I've been reading about porosity on another site and it has a few opposite facts. www.livecurlylivefree.com

    For instance, she mentions on the site above that it's good to know the texture of your hair and the porosity. On the other site, if you have low porosity and fine hair proteins are good for your hair. Also, I've seen somewhere that it mentioned that Humectants can do the totally opposite of moisturizing you hair.

    "
    Humectants
    Humectants promote moisture retention within the hair shaft by absorbing water from the atmosphere, and also slow down the evaporation of liquid. Under idealconditions, humectants help curly hair to retain its hydration and spring.
    In less than ideal conditions, however, humectants can cause a world of problems. In low moisture areas or dry climates, humectants can actually dry the hair out further by absorbing water from the hair itself when there is no moisture in the surrounding atmosphere to be found. In high
    moisture areas or wet climates, humectants will
    force porous hair to continuously “drink” water
    from the atmosphere until the hair shaft is swollen,
    bloated and tangled. Both overly dry and overly
    swollen hair can become frizzy and/or lose their wave pattern due to improper use of humectants.
    Depending on your hair type, humectants should not be used in very dry or very wet climates, or when dew points indicate there is too little or too much moisture in the
    atmosphere"
    BC Oct 08
    3c/4a
    Protein Sensitive
    Poo: SheaMoisture Retention Shampoo
    Co-wash: SheaMoisture Raw Shea Condish
    DT: Qhemet AOHC
    Stylers: Qhemet Honey Bush Gel or SheaMoisture Deep Masque Treatment
  • SheBrosSheBros Posts: 332Registered Users
    Thanks Laura for posting this info. I found it very informative. I believe my hair is normal to high porosity (normal underneath, higher on top). It responds very well to ACV rinses. I was only doing the rinses every 3-4 weeks, but I think I'm going to lessen the intervals to 2 weeks. I've been having a heck of a time with frizz this summer. It might be because my hair needs a good protein DT. Thanks again!:thumbright:
    3B Fine (lots of it), Normal to High Porosity
    Low Poo: Elucence Moisture Poo, Renpure Organics
    Co-Wash: Tresseme Naturals, Giovanni TT
    Rinse Out: Biologe Cond Balm, SS Deeply Decadent Moisturizing Treatment
    Leave-In: Oyin Hair Dew, CJ Beautiful Curls,
    Stylers: SS Curl Enhancing Jelly, SS Firm Holding Styling Gel, Jessicurl RR and CC, BRHG, Biolage Gelee
    Extras: ACV rinses every couple of months
  • DiamondsCurlsDiamondsCurls Posts: 167Registered Users
    Curly83 wrote: »
    I am so confused now. I've been reading about porosity on another site and it has a few opposite facts. www.livecurlylivefree.com

    For instance, she mentions on the site above that it's good to know the texture of your hair and the porosity. On the other site, if you have low porosity and fine hair proteins are good for your hair. Also, I've seen somewhere that it mentioned that Humectants can do the totally opposite of moisturizing you hair.

    im glad im not the only one confused
    :afro:
    Hair Type: 3b-c/m/i
    HGs:KCKT KCCC
    Using:cowash VO5, TJ Nurish, orGVP PM Detandler condish/l.i. KCKT, stylers EcoStyler or ORS L&T, SheaButter Coconut Oil or EVOO seal, DT amla or brahmi powder ,DC AOHR, Henna, Multi+Biotin+FishOil+Probiotic
    Want 2 Try: Qhem Curls
    formerly KinkzNCurlz
  • lovemycurlzlovemycurlz Posts: 330Registered Users
    This article that Laurabeth post was a true eye opener!! For sooooooo LONG I have been stalking this site trying to find a solution and or routine for my hair mostly without a lot of luck. Now that I know that my hair has a HIGH porousity and I do mean HIGH (thanks to coloring grays every 3 to 4 weeks and just having super dry hair anyway) I can actually find a way without guilt to care for my hair. This article was amazing. Thanks so much!!:headbang:
    Coarse--M. Porosity--Frizz Prone--3/3b hair. HATES: Glycerin , Mineral Oil,various proteins,silicones.

    Wash: L'oreal Ever Pure for color treated hair
    Condish : Terax Crema (simply the best)
    Leave-In: KCKT
    Prep: ? Looking for the HG
    Curl Enhancer: Alterna Hemp Straightening Balm
    Stylers: PM Foam
    Love: ACV rinses and baking soda washes. :flower:

  • DEL2CDEL2C Posts: 6,418Registered Users
    Curly83 wrote: »
    I am so confused now. I've been reading about porosity on another site and it has a few opposite facts. www.livecurlylivefree.com

    For instance, she mentions on the site above that it's good to know the texture of your hair and the porosity. On the other site, if you have low porosity and fine hair proteins are good for your hair. Also, I've seen somewhere that it mentioned that Humectants can do the totally opposite of moisturizing you hair.

    im glad im not the only one confused
    Don't let that confuse you. The article doesn't get into texture and you do need to take that into consideration. You also have to do what's right for your hair. A lot of fine haired curlies have benefited greatly from adding more protein to their regime so you should experiment as well.

    As far as humectants you'll see the curly chemist article has talked about them before and yes they can cause issues in less then ideal weather conditions. However, there are so many different humectants that it is almost impossible to avoid them all and it's not necessary. Try a Google search for the Curl Chemist Articles or get the link in the Newbie Forum. This will explain a lot for you.
    Discovered CG 2007

    2C Fia BSL/Thick/Med-Coarse/Low(crown)-Normal Porosity Protein and Oil Sensitive

    Link-Spritz & Condish Washing:glasses7:

    I'm aCurlJunkieJunky :love4:

    My hair LOVES Coconut DESPISES Soap Bars :tongue6:


    CJRehab or H&B Fix, Deva NO POO, EO Rose & Cham POO & Condish, CJ CurlFix, CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB, SS FHG, KCCC, BRHG, AG Mousse Gel, ACV Rinses,Shikakai Conditioning Hair Rinse.
  • Swirlycurly ChemistSwirlycurly Chemist Posts: 335Registered Users
    Hey ladies! Thanks for reading and for the great discussion. I agree that humectants, humidity, hair texture and other variables must be taken into consideration and that in the end, as I always say - one must find what works for themselves! Everyone's hair and environemtn and perceptions are different, so what works for you might be a disaster for another. There are, of course, some basic scientific facts, but some folks seem to enjoy great success even when choosing to go againts what the science seems to be telling us.

    One note on liquid or jar sopas - I am not overly familiar with those, but a quick search showed the first ingredients are usually coconut oil soap or olive oil soap? If so, then these are still going to be potentially problematic when it comes to preserving your cuticular cellular mebrane complex. However, if you get your cut often or have lower porosity hair, perhaps it is not a problem. I have also wondered if the pH of some soaps and products are lower due to inclusion of other ingredients.

    Regarding looking at your hair in a microscope or weighing it before and after immersion to determine porosity, this might be something I could do for some folks. It would take some planning and time and probably (possibly) money, but if there is interest I can look into it. You would have to mail me some hair though, LoL - if willing. :)
    3A canopy with 3B underneath
    Low poo, not afraid of amine-based silicones or polyquats, silk proteins are good as well.
  • redcelticcurlsredcelticcurls Posts: 17,502Registered Users
    Hey ladies! Thanks for reading and for the great discussion. I agree that humectants, humidity, hair texture and other variables must be taken into consideration and that in the end, as I always say - one must find what works for themselves! Everyone's hair and environemtn and perceptions are different, so what works for you might be a disaster for another. There are, of course, some basic scientific facts, but some folks seem to enjoy great success even when choosing to go againts what the science seems to be telling us.

    One note on liquid or jar sopas - I am not overly familiar with those, but a quick search showed the first ingredients are usually coconut oil soap or olive oil soap? If so, then these are still going to be potentially problematic when it comes to preserving your cuticular cellular mebrane complex. However, if you get your cut often or have lower porosity hair, perhaps it is not a problem. I have also wondered if the pH of some soaps and products are lower due to inclusion of other ingredients.

    Regarding looking at your hair in a microscope or weighing it before and after immersion to determine porosity, this might be something I could do for some folks. It would take some planning and time and probably (possibly) money, but if there is interest I can look into it. You would have to mail me some hair though, LoL - if willing. :)

    I bet you get bombarded. :pl:
    Kiva! Microfinance works.

    Med/Coarse, porous curly.
  • goobernutgoobernut Posts: 2,317Registered Users
    I bet you get bombarded. :pl:

    Oh yeah I bet she does. I was just waiting until I took biology next semester and had access to the lab before I did the same thing heh.
    Grand Goobah Caedran, Aqueous Infusion of Demulcents, Order of the Curly Crusaders

    Fia 2cFi, fine texture, med porosity CG 5-29-09 * My hair loves protein! Currently using : DermOrganics Shampoo and IHM, G2B Kinkier Mousse, Re:Coil VMM, Anything Spiral Solutions! MO Sealing. Coconut Oil Pre-Poo, once a month Hard Water shampoo. Avoiding Glycerin in finishing products.
  • DEL2CDEL2C Posts: 6,418Registered Users
    Hey ladies! Thanks for reading and for the great discussion. I agree that humectants, humidity, hair texture and other variables must be taken into consideration and that in the end, as I always say - one must find what works for themselves! Everyone's hair and environemtn and perceptions are different, so what works for you might be a disaster for another. There are, of course, some basic scientific facts, but some folks seem to enjoy great success even when choosing to go againts what the science seems to be telling us.

    One note on liquid or jar sopas - I am not overly familiar with those, but a quick search showed the first ingredients are usually coconut oil soap or olive oil soap? If so, then these are still going to be potentially problematic when it comes to preserving your cuticular cellular mebrane complex. However, if you get your cut often or have lower porosity hair, perhaps it is not a problem. I have also wondered if the pH of some soaps and products are lower due to inclusion of other ingredients.

    Regarding looking at your hair in a microscope or weighing it before and after immersion to determine porosity, this might be something I could do for some folks. It would take some planning and time and probably (possibly) money, but if there is interest I can look into it. You would have to mail me some hair though, LoL - if willing. :)
    Thanks so much for checking in Tonya! I think this will clear up a lot of questions. We love your scientific explanations and value your input I e-mailed whispering windz to double check if their Jar soap is saponified or not, I'll be sure to let you know if it isn't so you can indulge ;) I predict you will get bombarded with hair samples in the mail also!
    Discovered CG 2007

    2C Fia BSL/Thick/Med-Coarse/Low(crown)-Normal Porosity Protein and Oil Sensitive

    Link-Spritz & Condish Washing:glasses7:

    I'm aCurlJunkieJunky :love4:

    My hair LOVES Coconut DESPISES Soap Bars :tongue6:


    CJRehab or H&B Fix, Deva NO POO, EO Rose & Cham POO & Condish, CJ CurlFix, CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB, SS FHG, KCCC, BRHG, AG Mousse Gel, ACV Rinses,Shikakai Conditioning Hair Rinse.
  • laurabeth33laurabeth33 Posts: 1,443Registered Users
    Regarding looking at your hair in a microscope or weighing it before and after immersion to determine porosity, this might be something I could do for some folks. It would take some planning and time and probably (possibly) money, but if there is interest I can look into it. You would have to mail me some hair though, LoL - if willing. :)

    I have an image of Miracle on 32nd St with the bags and bags of mail being delivered to Chris Cringle.

    Similarly, I can see bags and bags of hair samples sent to Tonya.

    Would there be a difference in cut hair's vs yanking a few strands at the root when testing for porousity?
    2b w/ some 3a
    product tester geek
  • CurlyCowgirlyCurlyCowgirly Posts: 295Registered Users
    One note on liquid or jar sopas - I am not overly familiar with those, but a quick search showed the first ingredients are usually coconut oil soap or olive oil soap? If so, then these are still going to be potentially problematic when it comes to preserving your cuticular cellular mebrane complex. However, if you get your cut often or have lower porosity hair, perhaps it is not a problem. I have also wondered if the pH of some soaps and products are lower due to inclusion of other ingredients.

    I know AO products are popular on this forum, so I figured I'd mention this: AO GPB Shampoo's third ingredient is coconut oil-corn oil soap with quillaya bark (saponin). However it also contains a lot of moisturizing and protein ingredients, so maybe this doesn't create as much of a problem...?
    Low/Med porosity, very fine, low/med elasticity & density, 3A
    AKA hard to work with hair!


    Low-Poo: Kenra Volumizing shampoo, AG Fast Food shampoo
    CO: AG Ultramoist, AO GPB, Nature's Gate Aloe Vera
    Gel: GFCC mousse, HETT, Aquage Megagel
    Also: Aloe Vera juice or Alba Leave-in. Weekly ACV rinse.
    Wishlist: YTC low-poo, Elucence poo, Bioterra Curl Creme, AGEbeautiful Strengthening trtment, SS Repairing Protein Trtment, LuxyHair ext's
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