CurlTalk

help needed w/fine, thin, 2c/3a frizzy hair

I have worn my hair curly for years. However I have only been a CG for a couple of weeks. My hair has no body in it. If my hair air dries it is wavy. However, I usually use a diffuser and all of the scrunching from the diffuser curls it up more. After that it looks more like 3a. As I mentioned my hair is fine and thin. I believe my hair is med/high porosity.

I am struggling to find the right products on a budget. I am open to suggestions. I am currently trying Bioterra firm hold gel and Herbal Essences mouse. I think I may be using too much gel.

One of my biggest issues is getting my hair from the clumping stage after it has dried all the way to the way I want it to look. My hair is very thin so I can't just leave it all clumped together even if is isn't crunchy. I think I look like a wet dog. Then I wind up with frizz. I am currently using MOP pomade to scrunch.

How do I get my hair to look like all of your pictures?

I am open to product suggestions and I am sure that I am sure that my technique is wrong.

I CO-wash with Suave coconut and condition and leave-in with Eleance.

Thanks in advance for your help.
2c/3a
fine thin

still trying to find what works for my hair

Comments

  • mpgirlmpgirl Posts: 1,163Registered Users
    When you have thinner hair, once it dries and you sotc, you might need to slide your fingers up into the scalp and "scrub" gently with your fingers to loosen the dried hair at the root. Doing this upside down, if your hair is longer can help to give you a bit of volume at the root and break up the clumps at the scalp that can help to give you thicker looking hair.

    If you clip, this will work as well.

    Have you thought about using a protein treatment? Suave Coconut has some protein in it, but if your hair texture is fine you might need a regular shot to boost your curl and control frizz.
    3b spirals, fine texture, normal porosity, dense
    Picasa:
    Link
    Deva Low Poo
    Suave Naturals Coconut for detangling
    Renpure Organics conditioner/leave-in
    Homemade FSG
    KCCC
    Curl Junkie Stuff
    BRHG


    Nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect. -wabi-sabi

  • mendy789mendy789 Posts: 18Registered Users
    I do "scrub" some. Then I think I overdo it. If I have put the product in when my hair is too wet you can see way too much of my scalp. So I just rub too much. Then of course frizz.

    I did recently purchase the Generic Joico K-pac conditioner. How would you suggest that I use this? I have been following the directions.
    2c/3a
    fine thin

    still trying to find what works for my hair
  • mpgirlmpgirl Posts: 1,163Registered Users
    I follow the directions to the letter. Even fine hair can overdo protein even though it needs it. What I use says to apply to wet hair and let sit for 1-2 minutes then rinse. I do this once a week.

    I follow that with a DT or a very moisturizing conditioner and an ACV rinse (/home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.livecurlylivefree.com%2Fhome%2520remedies.htm%23Apple_Cider_Vinegar_Rinse" class="Popup)twice a month. The other times I rinse in cool water to smooth the cuticle.

    I also use conditioners that contain protein to maintain a good balance throughout the week.
    3b spirals, fine texture, normal porosity, dense
    Picasa:
    Link
    Deva Low Poo
    Suave Naturals Coconut for detangling
    Renpure Organics conditioner/leave-in
    Homemade FSG
    KCCC
    Curl Junkie Stuff
    BRHG


    Nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect. -wabi-sabi

  • mendy789mendy789 Posts: 18Registered Users
    What products would you suggest for styling? I need something that increases volume.
    2c/3a
    fine thin

    still trying to find what works for my hair
  • mendy789mendy789 Posts: 18Registered Users
    Oh and, inexpensive
    2c/3a
    fine thin

    still trying to find what works for my hair
  • mpgirlmpgirl Posts: 1,163Registered Users
    You might want to look into mousse. Do a search in the Google search function at the top of the page. There has been some recent posts about mousse vs. gel. Mousse can be less weighty on your hair than gel.

    I will check around and get back to you.
    3b spirals, fine texture, normal porosity, dense
    Picasa:
    Link
    Deva Low Poo
    Suave Naturals Coconut for detangling
    Renpure Organics conditioner/leave-in
    Homemade FSG
    KCCC
    Curl Junkie Stuff
    BRHG


    Nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect. -wabi-sabi

  • mendy789mendy789 Posts: 18Registered Users
    Thank you for all of your advice. I am using a mousse now, but I keep just chose the inexpensive one off of the "best" list on nc. I have been changing gels hoping to get the results I need. I am currently using a mousse and a gel. I hear so much about layering products, and then basically I don't know what I am doing.
    2c/3a
    fine thin

    still trying to find what works for my hair
  • mpgirlmpgirl Posts: 1,163Registered Users
    I don't know if you saw this thread link but there are a lot of mousse/gel options talked about.
    3b spirals, fine texture, normal porosity, dense
    Picasa:
    Link
    Deva Low Poo
    Suave Naturals Coconut for detangling
    Renpure Organics conditioner/leave-in
    Homemade FSG
    KCCC
    Curl Junkie Stuff
    BRHG


    Nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect. -wabi-sabi

  • PrettyMedusaPrettyMedusa Posts: 619Registered Users
    Mendy, would you mind posting a pic of your hair? This might help me envision what could be right for you. My hair is fine, as well. I found that getting a bob really helped with the volume and controlling clumpage so I don't look like a wet dog.
    Fine, porous 3a with some 3b...
    Co-wash: Suave Tropicals Coconut Conditioner (with shampoo bars 2x a month) Rinse-out: L'oreal Vive Pro Nutri Gloss Leave-in: Lustrasilk Styling: CK, Pink Boots, KCCC, AOMM, HESMU, BRHG, CJ Aloe Fix Gel Post-Styling: Apply product to wet hair, scrunch out water with Curls Like Us, diffuse for 5-7 minutes Treatments: Vatika coconut oil, Kama Brahmi oil
  • mendy789mendy789 Posts: 18Registered Users
    That is helpful. I do need to concentrate more on mousse (and my typing, I have made several mistakes today). There were some helpful hints in there too.

    I haven't been using a comb on my hair, but I think that a comb would help to break up the curls more. Big clumps are bad for me because I just don't have enough hair for that.

    Would I need the AVC if I loo-poo occasionally? I do have hard water.

    It's funny because I can't wait until the next day to try something new in hopes of getting it right!
    2c/3a
    fine thin

    still trying to find what works for my hair
  • LoloDSMLoloDSM Posts: 3,778Registered Users
    I have thin/fine hair too. One thing that helps me with volume is to use a Denman 3 brush on my soaking wet hair. It helps lift hair away from the root. It does break up my clumps, so I have to choose between volume or chunkier curls.

    After rinsing out my conditioner and while still in the shower, I apply leave-in, brush it through with the Denman, and then apply stylers.

    You can find the Denman at Sally Beauty Supply. I think it was about $6.
    Loose botticelli curls and waves
    No silicones/no sulfates since March 2008
  • mendy789mendy789 Posts: 18Registered Users
    My husband helped me take a picture and the file was too large (the setting on my camera). So after he went to sleep I took this one by myself with a mirror. I'm so sorry for the bad quality. My hair isn't the only thing I need help with. LOL!

    So anyway, you can see the frizz. I think it actually looks better in the picture than in real life. I put a little leave in on, used a microfiber towel to get some water out, and then I put the mousse in. Last I raked in some gel.
    2c/3a
    fine thin

    still trying to find what works for my hair
  • mendy789mendy789 Posts: 18Registered Users
    My picture isn't very large. So if you can tell me how to get it bigger let me know. I will post a better picture tomorrow. I apologize.
    2c/3a
    fine thin

    still trying to find what works for my hair
  • kathymackkathymack Posts: 9,999Registered Users
    Mendy, would you mind posting a pic of your hair? This might help me envision what could be right for you. My hair is fine, as well. I found that getting a bob really helped with the volume and controlling clumpage so I don't look like a wet dog.

    Saw your picture and totally agree with PrettyMedusa. If you look at my fotki pictures, my hair started out a lot like yours. The bob helped. When you don't have a lot of hair, long hair just makes it look skimpier.

    My hair likes the more natural products. I get tighter curl and more volume from using the natural soap bars rather then cowashing.
    3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
    SE PA

    HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Aloe Fix
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • mpgirlmpgirl Posts: 1,163Registered Users
    I agree with KM on the hair cut. Fine/thin hair is too easily weighed down by products and itself. A good trim or cut might help. The frizz might lessen with a good dose of protein.

    If you choose to use a shampoo bar, yes, you will need to use an ACV rinse to rebalance the pH levels. I have fine hair and I use an ACV rinse every other week or so after a protein and deep treatment to shut down the cuticle. I don't use it more often because it can be drying to fine hair. I depend more on protein and a good gel to manage frizz. Rinsing hair in cool water will also smooth the hair shaft.
    3b spirals, fine texture, normal porosity, dense
    Picasa:
    Link
    Deva Low Poo
    Suave Naturals Coconut for detangling
    Renpure Organics conditioner/leave-in
    Homemade FSG
    KCCC
    Curl Junkie Stuff
    BRHG


    Nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect. -wabi-sabi

  • mendy789mendy789 Posts: 18Registered Users
    Alright, the haircut I understand. Although I will have to think about that. I like being able to put it up in a ponytail. Especially in the summer. I had short hair once and what I remember is that I always had to fix my hair. There was no just throwing it up. I don't put it up much, but it is nice when I take the kids to the pool, stuff like that. But you are right, and I will think about it.

    Kathymack, just to be sure that I understand, you are saying that you us shampoo bars instead of CO-washing. How often do you do that, and how is that different from sulfate free shampoo? What do you use to style your hair? If it is homemade what is the recipe? I will look up more on shampoo bars in the mean time.

    This might be good for my daughter. She has wavy hair. She is eleven, and like most girls her age finds it easier to put her hair up every day rather than fix it. (She does like her hair.) She has tried CO-washing, but her scalp itches. I have heard that this is common for those with wavy hair.

    Although I have to tell you I have several bottles of sulfate-free shampoo laying around. I am an unintended PJ who would like to be a minimalist, just waiting to find the right products. Ha Ha!
    2c/3a
    fine thin

    still trying to find what works for my hair
  • mpgirlmpgirl Posts: 1,163Registered Users
    Mendy- Have your read Tiffany's website through yet? (/home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.livecurlylivefree.com" class="Popup) I think if you haven't, it would be valuable to do so. Purchasing her e-book, Live Curly, Live Free - Unlocking the Secrets Behind the World of Beautiful Curls would also be beneficial for you and your daughter. I don't believe that curl type has anything to do with what ingredients you should be using on your hair. Reading what Tiffany has to say might help to clarify things for you.

    I know everything on this site seems complicated, but understanding the science of hair might help to uncomplicated things.:smile:
    3b spirals, fine texture, normal porosity, dense
    Picasa:
    Link
    Deva Low Poo
    Suave Naturals Coconut for detangling
    Renpure Organics conditioner/leave-in
    Homemade FSG
    KCCC
    Curl Junkie Stuff
    BRHG


    Nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect. -wabi-sabi

  • kathymackkathymack Posts: 9,999Registered Users
    mendy789 wrote: »

    Kathymack, just to be sure that I understand, you are saying that you us shampoo bars instead of CO-washing. How often do you do that, and how is that different from sulfate free shampoo? What do you use to style your hair? If it is homemade what is the recipe? I will look up more on shampoo bars in the mean time.

    I cowashed for six months and it was fine. Last summer, when the soap/shampoo bars became the rage--it took me two months to try one I got free with my cassia order. It was WOW!! Pictures in my fotki. After trying some other bars, and having disastrous results with CV bars, I did a lot of research looking for great bars to use. Found a company that makes them for resellers and buy them in bulk. Started with their organic bars that don't have castor or avocado oils, or shea butter. I've since added their bars with shea butter and avocado (they don't use much avocado anymore.) If you research soap and/or shampoo bars--you'll come up with tons of threads.

    End of last summer, I started to use more natural products--my hair responded well. I used to have 3a curls in the summer and waves in the winter. My hair now looks like my signature picture every day. The products I use are in my signature. I experiment with new natural products all of the time. Right now, I'm trying out the new Donna Marie and Darcy's Botanicals products.
    3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
    SE PA

    HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Aloe Fix
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • mendy789mendy789 Posts: 18Registered Users
    My hair looks better today. I remembered to rinse with cool water. Using a comb to get smaller clumps helped also. Then I didn't mess with it as much when it was dry. It already looked the way I wanted it to look. I just scrunched the crunch out and "scrubbed" a little.

    I read some about homemade flax gel. I will try that. Thanks for all of your help.

    I have looked at the sites that everyone has suggested and have found a lot of helpful information! I have so much to learn!
    2c/3a
    fine thin

    still trying to find what works for my hair
  • mendy789mendy789 Posts: 18Registered Users
    I wanted to report my hair happenings.

    I went on a short vacation this weekend. While staying in the hotel my hair looked great. It had no frizz and lots of body. In fact, as I remember every time I have stayed at a hotel I have had very nice hair. I am guessing this is because they have soft water.

    So this morning I was back home, same products, same procedure, frizz. My water is the problem.

    I just had a chance to go out and buy the vinegar tonight so I haven't had an opportunity to try that yet.
    2c/3a
    fine thin

    still trying to find what works for my hair
  • Courtney11405Courtney11405 Posts: 45Registered Users
    Hi Mendy. You and I have VERY similar hair, I might even go as far as to say you could be my hair twin (the only one I have found so far). My hair is also fine/thin, with med-high porosity but it has become more curly with the CG method, there are pics in my fotki (see below).

    Here are some tips that work with my hair...maybe something will be of help!

    My hair LOVES protein and I do a protein treatment (Nexus Emergencee) about twice per month followed by a DT (usually a heavy conditioner unless I am more motivated and I use coconut milk, honey, and olive oil which makes my hair so shiny and bouncy). I had success for awhile with ACV rinses but not in a long time.

    I co-wash with suave coconut, rinse out with TIGI Moisture Maniac, and use the TIGI as a leave in as well (a pea sized drop). I always thought my hair was weighed down with too much moisture but I have found a balance it seems.

    I love [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Kinky-Curly-Curling-Custard-p-778.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=kinkycurly-curling-custard]KCCC[/buylink] for styling (raked then scrunched through soaking wet hair then scrunch out the excess water with a t-shirt) followed by HETT mousse lightly scrunched in upside down. I check out my scalp for any obvious cowlicks or large parts of my scalp exposed and twist curls together to cover those parts, I also twist the curls on the canopy to ensure they aren't going to dry too crazy. I then let it air dry until it is about 90% dry and scrunch out the crunch. I have found that although I look awful when it is drying (bits of scalp showing and a real drowned rat look to me) it looks so much better dry when I just leave it alone before scrunching. In the winter I scrunched with JCN&S but in the summer I have been just scrunching with bare hands then lightly scrunching with a bit of water to re-activate the product and lay the fly-aways back down.

    It took about a year to figure out what works and I still go through phases of not liking the results and having to try something new. I too believe that a shorter cut gives more volume but I also want the luxury of pulling it back so I fight with the flat head issues!

    Good luck and let me know if you find some new methods that work! I too like to travel for the hair benefits, not so much the water but my hair gets so thick with the humidity...I need to move to Florida.
    Fine/Thin/Med Porosity 3a-b
    CG since 7-2008
  • mendy789mendy789 Posts: 18Registered Users
    Wow, it is great to hear from you Courtney! Many people have fine hair, but they do not have thin hair. Thank you so much for responding.

    I will try some of the products that you mentioned. I know that everyone raves about [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Kinky-Curly-Curling-Custard-p-778.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=kinkycurly-curling-custard]KCCC[/buylink], but the product description says something about helping to control body. That concerned me so I haven't tried it yet. So I will give that a try.

    I thinking very seriously about shorter hair. My other big concern is a stylist. I am unhappy with my current one. I found someone with nice curly hair (happened to be a CG) and she recommended someone. I'm just not sure if I should take a bold move with a new stylist. Well, I'll think about it some more.

    My biggest problem is still frizz and the hair cut won't fix that.

    The homemade DT that you make. What is the recipe, and (I probably should know this, but) where do you get coconut milk (from a coconut)?
    2c/3a
    fine thin

    still trying to find what works for my hair
  • Courtney11405Courtney11405 Posts: 45Registered Users
    I was a little concerned trying the [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Kinky-Curly-Curling-Custard-p-778.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=kinkycurly-curling-custard]KCCC[/buylink] for the same reason but my hair loves moisture and wasn't responding well to many drugstore products so I figured it was worth a shot. Thanks to fine/thin hair I have had the same jar for about 6 months and I still have about two inches left of product in the jar to get through. So it isn't nearly as expensive as it first appears (in my opinion). I do have to be careful about not using too much as for me it doesn't feel like I have any in my hair when I am applying it but if I get too much then I get weighed down and almost wet looking. Took me a few applications to get it just right.

    For the DT: I buy a can of coconut milk (look in the ethnic food section with the soy sauce and other thai spices, try to find something that is all coconut milk with just water added, "Taste of Thai" or something close to that is the brand I buy) and pour 1/4 into a cup mix it with about a tablespoon of honey and a tablespoon of olive oil. I apply it to dry hair (I figure dry hair soaks up more) then wrap my head in plastic wrap to keep the goo in. I use a hair dryer to lightly warm it to help the mixture soak in or yesterday I put a tshirt on my head over the plastic and sat in the sun for a few hours. I co-wash it out and just add a leave in. Sometimes my hair is a little greasy day one but day two it is always looking its best. You can save the rest of the coconut milk in ziploc bags and put them in the freezer. Then I can just pull out a ziploc the night before a DT and let it defrost in the fridge.
    Fine/Thin/Med Porosity 3a-b
    CG since 7-2008
  • chgurlsngchgurlsng Posts: 137Registered Users
    mendy789 wrote: »

    I thinking very seriously about shorter hair. My other big concern is a stylist. I am unhappy with my current one. I found someone with nice curly hair (happened to be a CG) and she recommended someone. I'm just not sure if I should take a bold move with a new stylist. Well, I'll think about it some more.

    Hmm... You could just go and get a nice trim/reshape to see if you like the hairdresser and then the next time you could make a bold move. Sometimes all you need is a reshape anyway.
    Personally, I don't think I'd cut off a whole bunch until I found out what my hair needed. Your hair could look great at your length if you just found the right stuff... You never know.
  • mendy789mendy789 Posts: 18Registered Users
    Courtney thank you for the DT recipe and chgurlsng that is a good suggestion about a trim. I really appreciate your advice.

    I made and tried homemade flax gel yesterday. It was nice, but I still had frizz.

    Today I did a ACV and a DT (I haven't gotten out to buy the coconut milk. I don't get to the store much. I used what I had Jessicurl Weekly DT and added some honey). Definitely an improvement, but not what I ultimately want.

    Maybe my hair is just really dry. Maybe I should purchase a heavier daily conditioner to use until my hair recovers from the use of silicone styling products.

    I'll just keep putting moisture on my hair and experimenting!
    2c/3a
    fine thin

    still trying to find what works for my hair