CurlTalk

stop me from perming my wavy hair

cmartin1cmartin1 Posts: 152Registered Users
Or not? I made the perm appointment this Monday after a long, frustrating decline of wavy 2b/3a definition. I've been cg, but I must avoid protein, and I no longer know what condish or styling products to buy to coax my curls.

Of coarse, today they look nice piled on top of my head in an up-do. It's like it knows.

I've been thinking about Abba conditioners because of the cg-factor, but I need a low-protein, moderate-moisture one that won't weigh down my 2b/3a tresses. I've considered Tigi Curls Rock Amplifier for my styling product. Clearly, I'm desperate.

Please help!

Comments

  • riotkittyriotkitty Posts: 1,307Registered Users
    I'm looking at your pictures and I think you have plenty of curl. Have you tried the Kinky Curly products? Specifically the Curling Custard ([buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Kinky-Curly-Curling-Custard-p-778.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=kinkycurly-curling-custard]KCCC[/buylink])? It worked miracles in my hair which is similar in texture to yours. The conditioner, [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Kinky-Curly-Knot-Today-p-207.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=kinkycurly-knot-today-leaveindetangler]Knot Today[/buylink], is probably the best daily conditioner I've ever used.
    Have several allergies and sensitivities.
    Current products
    Low Poo/Cowash: Rio Grande Herb Co Negrita and Amole Deep Treatment Concentrate, Magick Botanicals (MB) Shampoo (diluted)
    Rinse out/Leave in: MB with apricot kernel and jojoba oils added
    Protein Treatment: MB Conditioner for Thinning Hair, IAgirl's protien treatment
    Style: MB Gel mixed with LOTD Aloe Vera Gelly


    2b-c, need lots of moisture, likes protein in moderation.
  • curlyjenn10curlyjenn10 Posts: 2,034Registered Users
    You have beautiful curls! I understand the feeling though.

    What products have you been using? Do you know your texture/porosity? That's helped me a lot in the past few weeks in figuring out what my hair likes/doesn't like and what it needs.
  • CurlyHairedFarmerCurlyHairedFarmer Posts: 3,073Registered Users
    Why must you avoid protein? Have you done a snap test on your hair?
    Currently Loving:
    Shampoo: Giovanni 50:50

    Conditioners - CJ Strengthening, CJ Beauticurls Argan and Olive Oil, CJ Rehab, CJ Curl Fix

    Leave-in: CJ Smoothing

    Deep Conditioner: CJ Hibiscus and Banana Deep Fix

    Stylers - Tigi Curls Rock Amplifier, AG:Recoil, KCCC, Mop-C Curling Cream, Paul Mitchell Sculpting foam
  • cmartin1cmartin1 Posts: 152Registered Users
    i apologize, I forgot to add more recent pics to my Fotki. I've been perming on-and-off for the last 16 years, and those photos were taken about a year after a perm. My hair is capable of retaining a "fresh" perm for about 1 1/2 years. I'm thinking my hair has finally "let go" of the old perm after 3 years (I guess I get my moneys worth).

    I'm sorry to try everyone's patience like this, but I promise to add some more recent photos tonight. I think the decline will be more obvious then.

    I am definitely considering the thought-provoking questions you all are listing here. I never took a scientific approach to deciding just how coarse/porous my hair is, or whether it is truly protein-sensitive. I only became suspicious re: protein once I could no longer use Suave's coconut condish as a co-wash, nor Giovanni's Nutrafixx reconstruct condish. They both resulted in dry, stressed-looking, "sea-weed" tresses, not moist s-waves/curls.

    Please keep the thoughts coming, and I'll post pics late tonight. Thank you!
  • Jess the MessJess the Mess Posts: 5,844Registered Users
    I avoid protein but I do like to do a protein treatment followed by a moisture DT when my hair starts to lose it's curl. Every few months or so it really perks up my hair. ACV rinses once a week after a shampoo bar really help too. Kathymack doesn't cowash anymore, just uses poo bars, and her curl has really tightened up. You might PM her and ask some questions if you are interested. Her soap bars are great for hair and body.
    High Priestess JessMess, follower of the Goddess of the Coiling Way and Confiscator of Concoctions in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

  • rudeechickrudeechick Posts: 6,726Registered Users
    I had a perm appt pending when I found this site - I even went in for the test strands.

    But the girls from here talked me off the ledge and I am SO GLAD I DIDNT DO IT.

    HTH
    Curls,Coils,Waves & WhatKnot:geek:
    3miii/My HGs tame bulk&frizz/Give definition w/o crunch
    My Photobucket Album
  • KinkyKeeperKinkyKeeper Posts: 963Registered Users
    Don't do it. Embrace your curl/wave pattern as it is. Trying to fight your texture is a losing battle. Hair never stops growing. If you just want a change that's one thing (and I still would no longer abide caustic chemicals in my head) but it sounds like you are frustrated with your natural texture and that's a bad mentality to go off of.
  • cmartin1cmartin1 Posts: 152Registered Users
    I've finally added those new pics I promised. One is my new avatar, and the others are on my Fotki under May2009hair. I took the pics tonight, after letting my hair out from my up-do. It doesn't normally balloon up like that.

    The pics do a good job of depicting how my hair can be smooth in some sections, and curly in others. I also did not use anything other than Abba Moisturizing Scentzation Shampoo and White Rain conditioner this morning, along with VO5's new Glossy Curls Gel Spray.

    Thank you for your patience and good advice. I really do appreciate it all!
  • curlyjenn10curlyjenn10 Posts: 2,034Registered Users
    My hair kind of looked like that a few days ago, and I think it was because I had just clarified with a sulfate shampoo (always kills my curls) and I didn't use a hard-hold gel. I'd start with re-examining your products. I also add extra gel and scrunch more in areas that have trouble curling and that seems to help.

    Here's the texture/porosity thread:

    http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/showthread.php?t=67218
  • CurlyEyesCurlyEyes Posts: 2,983Registered Users
    It's your hair. We can't make the descision for you. If you want to perm it, perm it.
    made up of 98.822% silliness!!

    beautiful_wonderful_fabulous_jade_antm.gif
  • cmartin1cmartin1 Posts: 152Registered Users
    Curlyjenn, what is GVP Conditioning Balm? I've visited your blog and seen your hair pics...your hair seems a bit like mine.

    I figure I can purchase some of the higher-performance cg conditioners and stylers, if I don't part with the $$$ that a perm would be.

    Thank you!
  • hockeymomof3hockeymomof3 Posts: 2,159Registered Users
    I would really work with what you have! Maybe try plopping and see if that gives you a more consistent curl all around. My hair is similar in that it's less curly around the front and the back is really curly. My hair is just getting long enough to plop and I think it enhances the curl. Also try using a hard hold gel and scrunch the front to bring up the curl. Your hair is gorgeous - no need to change it!
    3b/a
    Cowash - No Poo
    Conditioner - One Condition
    Gel - Light Defining Gel

    Looking to try Devacurl Decadence line next! Can't wait to try it.
  • cmartin1cmartin1 Posts: 152Registered Users
    I did the snap test and the floating in water test. My hair snaps like it has enough protein, and needs more (light, not weighing-down type) moisture. My hair floats, which is a victory for me. It didn't used to, and stylists would say that meant I had really unhealthy hair. I raked my hands through my hair to perform a cursory porosity test. It never felt like something was catching, although my hair tangles pretty easily.

    I've been jotting down what each poster on this thread uses for a conditioner and styler. I've committed myself to about $20 each. I'm considering ordering some [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Kinky-Curly-Curling-Custard-p-778.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=kinkycurly-curling-custard]KCCC[/buylink], but I'm at a loss about where to start with a condish. So please suggest away, my wallet is open!
  • curlyjenn10curlyjenn10 Posts: 2,034Registered Users
    cmartin1 wrote: »
    Curlyjenn, what is GVP Conditioning Balm? I've visited your blog and seen your hair pics...your hair seems a bit like mine.

    I figure I can purchase some of the higher-performance cg conditioners and stylers, if I don't part with the $$$ that a perm would be.

    Thank you!

    It's the generic version of the Matrix conditioner and is sold at Sally's under the Generic Value Product brand. It's great at detangling and moisturizing! I think I got it for around $5-6.

    ETA: And if you haven't already, you should try the icequeen method! It's really brought out my curls and I have root curl now, which is nice.

    http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/showthread.php?t=69033
  • TooSenseTooSense Posts: 229Registered Users
    If you want to see what chemicals will do to your hair, take a look at my picture trail. The pic at the very bottom is the picture that speaks a thousand words.
  • rbbrbb Posts: 4,089Registered Users Curl Dabbler
    cmartin1 wrote: »
    I did the snap test and the floating in water test. My hair snaps like it has enough protein, and needs more (light, not weighing-down type) moisture. My hair floats, which is a victory for me. It didn't used to, and stylists would say that meant I had really unhealthy hair. I raked my hands through my hair to perform a cursory porosity test. It never felt like something was catching, although my hair tangles pretty easily.

    I've been jotting down what each poster on this thread uses for a conditioner and styler. I've committed myself to about $20 each. I'm considering ordering some [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Kinky-Curly-Curling-Custard-p-778.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=kinkycurly-curling-custard]KCCC[/buylink], but I'm at a loss about where to start with a condish. So please suggest away, my wallet is open!

    i think if you pm kathymack she sells sample sizes of [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Kinky-Curly-Curling-Custard-p-778.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=kinkycurly-curling-custard]KCCC[/buylink] so you don't have to spend too much to try it. i would definitely try different products. i also thought i had wavy hair until i became cg, started using deva products, and found carlos flores (deva stylist) to cut my hair. i have 3a and even a few 3b curls!!
    in my opinion, i would try other things first before i had the perm.
    even if your hair is wavy rather than curly, that is also very pretty -- i think the key with any type is moisturizing and a good cut.

    3a, some 2c & 3b, medium texture, porosity normal, low elasticity :-(
    washing/cowashing, conditioning, protein tx: curl junkie products
    leave in:cj conditioners and treatments as leave in
    styling: cj aloe fix gel, cj pattern pusha, cj honey butta leave in, cj cccc, cj ciab.
    sealants - jane carter nourish & shine
  • riotkittyriotkitty Posts: 1,307Registered Users
    cmartin1 wrote: »
    I did the snap test and the floating in water test. My hair snaps like it has enough protein, and needs more (light, not weighing-down type) moisture. My hair floats, which is a victory for me. It didn't used to, and stylists would say that meant I had really unhealthy hair. I raked my hands through my hair to perform a cursory porosity test. It never felt like something was catching, although my hair tangles pretty easily.

    I've been jotting down what each poster on this thread uses for a conditioner and styler. I've committed myself to about $20 each. I'm considering ordering some [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Kinky-Curly-Curling-Custard-p-778.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=kinkycurly-curling-custard]KCCC[/buylink], but I'm at a loss about where to start with a condish. So please suggest away, my wallet is open!

    I've had really good luck with my own deep conditioner I've made from adding coconut oil and honey to Suave Coconut Conditioner. It doesn't get cheaper than that. I posted the recipe on the Recipe board.
    Have several allergies and sensitivities.
    Current products
    Low Poo/Cowash: Rio Grande Herb Co Negrita and Amole Deep Treatment Concentrate, Magick Botanicals (MB) Shampoo (diluted)
    Rinse out/Leave in: MB with apricot kernel and jojoba oils added
    Protein Treatment: MB Conditioner for Thinning Hair, IAgirl's protien treatment
    Style: MB Gel mixed with LOTD Aloe Vera Gelly


    2b-c, need lots of moisture, likes protein in moderation.
  • Jess the MessJess the Mess Posts: 5,844Registered Users
    I love the GVP condish balm. And you can't beat the price. It's def my HG condish. I would also order some stuff from kathymack if I were you. She has all kinds of samples and her soap bars are amazing. She has also seen a huge difference in her curls since she stopped cowashing and started using soap bars on a regular basis. You can see what she has in her fotki and she is really helpful and willing to answer any questions you might have. I recommend samples of the CJ coffee coco curl cream, DM coco curly butter, [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Kinky-Curly-Curling-Custard-p-778.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=kinkycurly-curling-custard]KCCC[/buylink], and my fave right now Komaza coconut pudding...and a soap bar of course :)
    High Priestess JessMess, follower of the Goddess of the Coiling Way and Confiscator of Concoctions in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

  • rbbrbb Posts: 4,089Registered Users Curl Dabbler
    I love the GVP condish balm. And you can't beat the price. It's def my HG condish. I would also order some stuff from kathymack if I were you. She has all kinds of samples and her soap bars are amazing. She has also seen a huge difference in her curls since she stopped cowashing and started using soap bars on a regular basis. You can see what she has in her fotki and she is really helpful and willing to answer any questions you might have. I recommend samples of the CJ coffee coco curl cream, DM coco curly butter, [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Kinky-Curly-Curling-Custard-p-778.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=kinkycurly-curling-custard]KCCC[/buylink], and my fave right now Komaza coconut pudding...and a soap bar of course :)

    i think the soap bars are particularly good if you have fine hair. also, you need to do a periodic vinegar rinse if you use soap bars. there is a thread on here about it, or if pm kathymack, she can fill you in on that. i don't use them as my hair is medium to coarse texture, so i can't give you details. they also might work well with truly wavy hair.

    3a, some 2c & 3b, medium texture, porosity normal, low elasticity :-(
    washing/cowashing, conditioning, protein tx: curl junkie products
    leave in:cj conditioners and treatments as leave in
    styling: cj aloe fix gel, cj pattern pusha, cj honey butta leave in, cj cccc, cj ciab.
    sealants - jane carter nourish & shine
  • morrighumorrighu Posts: 707Registered Users
    Part of the problem may also be the water where you live. If you live in an area with especially hard water, you might need to do an ACV rinse every time you wash. I do (on both counts) because it keeps the minerals from building up in my hair. That seems to have a lot to do with it being dry and not curling well.

    You can check with your local municipal water supplier - city , co-op, etc. to see what your water is like.
  • Gabriel02031990Gabriel02031990 Posts: 1Registered Users
    you should not perm your hair constantly. It will damaged your hair. Love your wavy hair just the way it is by using the right products :) If I may recommend, you could use :
    elseve by loreal anti-frizz- the color of the bottle is yellow
    my hair is 2b type and since I use that product from the shampoo, conditioner, and the mask also, my hair is shinier and also manageable ;)
    for cream you could use makarizo intensive care product - golden gloss, it smells great and also style and conditions your hair at the same time
    or if it's not availabe
    try kerastase oleo relax serum

    good luck :)
  • cmartin1cmartin1 Posts: 152Registered Users
    Thank you for the methodical approach to becoming acquainted with my hair porosity and type (fine). Thank you too for product recommendations, etc: I have a shipment arriving from Kathymack soon ([buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Kinky-Curly-Curling-Custard-p-778.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=kinkycurly-curling-custard]KCCC[/buylink]!).

    I dumped my old coconut/protein condish, bought some Aquelle from Sally's and Suave Green Apple, and my curls seem better than before. I'll post pics when I can.

    I'm holding off on recommending the Aqualle - we'll see.

    Thanks again everyone :)