Newbie needs

jillipoo

This question is really for the moderators, but I think others might chime in.

Please look at this thread. There is really nothing new here but I feel like NC.com needs to do something about it. Why am I and helloitsio and kathymack and several others having to play the role of moderators by asking people to search for things before posting questions that have been asked a thousand times? The newbies get upset and put out when we do this (naturally, they are hurt) and it creates bad feelings. So we are stuck in a quandary of getting our needs met as veterans and making sure newbies get their questions answered.

Isn't it time that NC.com stepped in and did one of the following:
- responded to posts that have come up many time before by gently asking posters to search. It might also be nice for the moderators to lead newbies to the threads where the questions have been answered.
- make it much clearer to newbies when they join that they are expected to search before posting. There is a ton of information on this site and it is collecting because it isn't organized well and people (especially newbies) have trouble finding it. Moderators should help people do that.
- establish a newbie area where newcomers could safely post questions. All of us would likely visit it on ocassion and help people. Moderators would ideally be active here too.

Yes, we need to welcome new people. But NC.com also needs to recognize that the rest of us love this community and want to stay but we'll only do that if discussions meet our needs.

What do you think? Are any of these ideas viable?

DEL2C

jilipoo this is long over due! While I haven't been on here that long and don't consider myself a "veteran" I completely agree 100%. Something needs to change or newbies will only be helped by other newbies, they will miss out on valuable input by more experienced curlies. There have been many subtle approaches to this issue by suggesting people utilize Google Search but it's not working. BRAVO jilipoo for putting this out in the open!!

kathymack

THANK YOU, JILLIPOO!! I've gone through times of not posting, I'm so tired of the repetition. I took a lot of flak when I posted:

http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/showthread.php?t=59793

At the time, 18 of the 53 current threads I was subscribe to were about shampoo bars! It happens over and over. Some people got it and some people didn't. We were all new at one point and the information load can be overwhelming. Everyone doesn't approach a new task as I do, I read every hair thread in every forum prior to my first post. Yes, it did take time--my time. I don't know if I should say that there are certain types of questions that I answer and certain types I don't.

If anyone has noticed, many of the repetitive questions go unanswered or keep getting bumped or another newby asks for someone to please answer. I think we try to be nice and understanding of people who are new, but there really do need to be rules and guidelines. Maybe there could be an automatic link to some type of instruction information when you sign up? Before you can post, you need to read it (or at least check that you have.) If you "violate" the rules, your gently reminded by the moderators (and we'll be happy to help you "police" the threads) and the thread is removed. The instructions could outline how to use the search functions. That duplicate posts (how do I use [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Kinky-Curly-Curling-Custard-p-778.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=kinkycurly-curling-custard]KCCC[/buylink], what shampoo bar should I use, etc?) would be consolidated or eliminated. And an electric shock would be sent out to anyone who asked what's my type, LOL! It could inform them to at least read the sticky(s) at the top of each forum and maybe give them the links for newby thread. I'm sure others can come up with ideas.

There are too many veterans who are either not around or not posting--just lurking. I really love this site. My hair wouldn't be what it is without it--but it's not the site I started reading 18+ months ago. (I lurked and read before I even signed up.)

Nallia

Kathymac, I did similarly to what you did--I read the site for two weeks before I joined and posted. I've been an admin on another site for a few years and know it can be frustrating to weed through the same questions over and over again. I also know that most of the time the answers to my questions have already been discussed in the past. I don't start many threads because I find that I rarely have to.

Would it be helpful to have this thread stickied or create one like it? Then we could all post to it and add links that answer the most common questions. That way it's easy for everyone to find and we all only have to refer people to one thread instead of doing the searching for them.

WurlyLox

:wav:

I think all that's a great idea if the moderators can do it. Maybe there's some way newbie's could be sent an automatic greeting that provides some basic links and FAQ's? Don't know what can and can't be done within the limitations of the application.

It ought to sure cut down on duplicate posts and some of our repetitious responses.

ETA: When I started this response, no one had answered Jillipoo yet. Got sidetracked and by the time I saved it there were all those others, LOL.

ITA that I almost never start a thread myself because I first do a search and can usually find what I'm looking for. I've only had to start maybe 3 or 4 ever. And like ya'll I lurked around and read up forever before I ever actually jumped in at all. I was a newbie not so long ago and I remember both Jillipo and Kathymack helping me out a lot and I so appreciate it. Because of that, I try to pay it forward, but I feel like a broken record a lot of times.

I've gotten to where I never subscribe to anything. I just do a search everyday for my own posts, scan thru them and follow-up on those that interested me, then if I have time, I go to New Posts and scan thru and see if anything new jumps out and interests me. I seldom even go to an individual forum unless I'm looking for something in particular.

DEL2C

there were a lot of suggestions here http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/showthread.php?t=63067 and they didn't seem to get addressed. I hope this time it does.

Nallia

I meant to add that I think the easiest solution to this is to create a "newbie" forum where these questions can be asked with impunity. As frustrating as it is, it is impossible to keep threads from being repeated on a board this size with this many members (the board I admin has about 10,000 members).

My board also has created Form Guides. They are not moderators but have a few of their powers (we don't have moderators--the admins take care of that side of things). They can move, merge, and close threads (though they are only allowed to close threads in an emergency and only of an admin is unavailable). They only have their powers in their specific forums and help keep things running smoothly. They do a lot of the cleanup of their forums and also help keep things interesting by starting new threads that help keep discussion going in the right direction in their forums. Our forum uses the same software as this one, and while it needed a hack to create the Forum Guides and adjust their powers it can be done.

Repetitive threads get merged almost right away and things posted in the wrong area get moved quickly. If a thread needs to be moved to a different forum a forum guide will PM an admin and ask one of us to move it.

I don't know if this is something the moderators or admins here want to consider, but it's kept the number of repetitive threads to a minimum for us.

kathymack

Nallia, I think that's a great idea.


Del, I do think there could have been good ideas in that thread. I do have to say that I took the original post as a "slap in the face." I thought it was insulting to all of us who have spent hours of time mentoring new people through the initiation. There were several of us who had "private" conversations about that post. None of us took to it very kindly! I found it so offensive, that I didn't have anything to do with it--reading posting, etc.

helloitsio

Thank you jillipoo. We can definitely understand the burning need to have a newbie question answered right away but it seems as though most of the time, they tend to forget that even the "veterans" were newbies at some point and probably had the same questions.

Like most of us here have mentioned, I also lurked a lot before posting because there was already a wealth of information on the site.

loewin

As a newbie, one of the things that first entered my mind on the boards was "where are all the stickies?". Now granted I've seen people ignore stickies, but I think most of the time they are used and very helpful.
I think even the most basic of stickies like "products" "techniques" etc would be good.

WurlyLox

Nallia wrote: »

I meant to add that I think the easiest solution to this is to create a "newbie" forum where these questions can be asked with impunity. As frustrating as it is, it is impossible to keep threads from being repeated on a board this size with this many members (the board I admin has about 10,000 members).

My board also has created Form Guides. They are not moderators but have a few of their powers (we don't have moderators--the admins take care of that side of things). They can move, merge, and close threads (though they are only allowed to close threads in an emergency and only of an admin is unavailable). They only have their powers in their specific forums and help keep things running smoothly. They do a lot of the cleanup of their forums and also help keep things interesting by starting new threads that help keep discussion going in the right direction in their forums. Our forum uses the same software as this one, and while it needed a hack to create the Forum Guides and adjust their powers it can be done.

Repetitive threads get merged almost right away and things posted in the wrong area get moved quickly. If a thread needs to be moved to a different forum a forum guide will PM an admin and ask one of us to move it.

I don't know if this is something the moderators or admins here want to consider, but it's kept the number of repetitive threads to a minimum for us.

This is the only board I've ever really participated in, so I don't know much about how they generally work, but these sound like great suggestions, Nallia, if this one has those capabilities.

I had never seen the thread that Del linked to above. I can see how it PO'd a lot of you, LOL.

There are so many New Members :laughing6: that I never even look at most of them. Every once in a while one's location or something about it will catch my eye, but not often. I have one in particular that I seem to have adopted by default right now just because no one else has responded to her at all, but I can't make it too much of a habit because of the time it takes - I already spend too much time here in Curly World, LOL.

DEL2C

I had never seen the thread that Del linked to above. I can see how it PO'd a lot of you, LOL.

Yeah reading it again I can see how it would PO a lot of people too. The idea was still there though that there needs to be a way to help newbies while keeping everyone else happy. There were lots of suggestions for a newbie forum where there could be stickies, etc. to familiarize themselves. It's been a problem for a while now......

ETA: sorry if I PO'd anyone by bumping that thread :confused1: I mainly just wanted to bring attention to the ideas presented many months ago..that didn't get addressed back then.

Also: is it possible that the site has grown so much that more mods are needed???

Gretchen

If someone will EMAIL me ([email protected]) a list of threads that make sense to be stickied cuz they contain basic info, I will do that, copying them to a Newbies forum.

Let's start there.

Nallia

Gretchen, you're AWESOME!

kathymack

Thanks Gretchen. That would great. Thanks for being responsive to our needs, as usual.

whatsercurl

I am either a serial poster or lurker on multiple forums. Most of the others are fitness or nutrition related. This is the ONLY forum I'm a member of that does not have a section for New Members.

In the other forums, it is stipulated to search for information before posting but if you really can't what you're looking for as a new member to go the Newbie Section. In there you can ask whatever you like and you will be answered - maybe not as quickly as some would like but eventually. Veterans are expected to not participate in that particular forum if it bothers them to see repetitive posts.

A common line I read on other forums is - " This is a very common topic. Please perform a search."

I don't mind seeing duplicate threads persay but it does bother me when there are several new threads with the same topic within the same week and even same day in some cases. Not very hard to find those .. some of the older ones are more difficult but the Google search function is simply amazing for getting results.

I spent almost 8 months lurking on this forum as a Guest digesting as much information as I could before I joined and submitted my first post. The information contained in this board can be simply overwhelming to some which is why rather than search a new thread is started. I appreciate that not everyone can or will go through the exercise of finding out what is already here. I know everyone is different which is why I choose to just ignore posts that I know will "annoy" me. However, I don't feel veterans ignoring posts is a benefit to anyone.

jwill112876

Ok ladies!

Just let me begin by saying that I am a newbie! I have been treated with nothing but respect and have received so much help from the vets here. As a newbie, there is a definite learning curve to this blog (and many others), and I would hope that the vets remember how it was to be new here too and I think that one I've talked to do!

This being said, I must say that I can see how it would become frustrating and a bit repetitive to say the same things with every post. As I said in a previous thread, I am on this site CONSTANTLY!! I work from home and so I have free time that alot of members don't have. I spend alot of time reading the threads, and welcoming newbies. I try to direct them to blogs that help explain the CG method and just say what a great place this is to come for all your curly/wavy advice. I personally think that it makes a newcomer feel welcome when at least someone says 'Hi and we are glad you are here...'. It also makes the whole board less stressful when you have some direction about where to go for your specific issue (someone with 2a hair looking thru 4b thread and getting nothing that will be helpful to them might turn off someone who has no time to search thru and read specifics at that time.) Someone who is searching at work and runs across this site, might not have time to do more than post a quick hello and a question. Wouldn't it be nice to have someone that replied to that quick post with a welcome and then a 'road map' to follow?

This being said, how about having someone who is like 'The Director Of First Impressions.'? This person would be "responsible" for welcoming new comers to the site and just saying Hi...also, they could alert newbies to the things that are important (ie: great blogs, abbreviation sticky, important threads on where to begin, hair type section...) Not saying that noone else could welcome a newcomer, but it would be lovely to have someone who's main function would be to answer newcomers in a timely fashion so at least they could begin to be led in the right direction? Just speaking for myself, it would have been great to post my intro, and then have someone who immediately gave me a starting point and directed me to the place I needed to be, and let me in on all the little tips...:hello2:

I also think that a newbie section is a great idea as that would encompass these things all in one convenient place...

Just my thoughts...

Jenn

jillipoo

Oh, this is great! Thanks, everyone, for your input. It's so obvious that we really care about this little community!

Gretchen, thanks for stepping in. Have you already started to receive threads that could be stickied? We don't want to overwhelm you or give you duplicate threads (!), so just holler if you'd rather have the information come from one or two people who could "sift" the links first.

jillipoo

Jenn, I just read your post. You have presented pretty much exactly what was in the back of my mind for what newbies should have here -- thank you for expressing it so well!

This site is no longer small and there are loads of new people all the time. It's unfair to just throw them into the fray and not expect that there will be disappointments and frustrations for them as well as people who've been around a while. Newbies really do need to be properly introduced and slowly eased into this site. Plus, the site and its reams of information need to be organized.

jwill112876

Jilli~

Glad you liked it! I hoped that it was clear!

I just remember the first day I came and logged on and started looking around. The abbreviations themselves made my head hurt! I was like WTH are all these letters for? My immediate thought was, 'How am I ever gonna be able to stay and post if I can't even read what someone is saying?' :confused1:

I must say, it was the ever-sweet Jess the Mess that clued me in to where I needed to be and I thank her for that b/c I would still be staring at BRHG scratching my head!!!

I just love this site and want everyone who comes here to feel welcome. Before coming here, we have enough frustration just by trying to fix our hair!!! NC.com is here to reduce stress and make our lives easier. I just feel that if this site is going to be discussed in magzines (yay!) then we need to have a place for the new comers to feel good and immediately feel like..."Ahhh, where has this site been all my life?" And someone who takes the time to say "We're glad you have found us!" would make even the most stressed person feel like they are well, home!

(OK, didn't mean to sound like I found Jesus for the first time, but I swear, when I found this site, that is almost what it felt like!) HAHA!

Again, just my 2 cents!

Jenn

rudeechick

I for one was clueless as a newbie... and I'm not talking about curls. I had never navigated a site like this, had no clue that I could "search", no less how to.

I think maybe a mandatory Tutorial on basic operations when a new member signs on would be helpful.

That having been said, I personally will simply ignore repititious threads - I know there was no premeditation or knowledge of the redundancy.

Jess the Mess

jwill112876 wrote: »

I must say, it was the ever-sweet Jess the Mess that clued me in to where I needed to be and I thank her for that b/c I would still be staring at BRHG scratching my head!!!

You are very welcome. One of the reasons I have answered so many of Jenn's questions and WavyWonder's questions, etc. is that they posted in the 2s board where it is easier to have a one on one type conversation where I can direct them to helpful links. I always try to say read all this then come back if you have questions. Then it becomes easier for me to answer questions because I now know what they have and haven't read and how better to address their questions. A newbie board like this would be great. I personally would visit it often and answer questions. I still consider myself a newbie. Ingredients confuse me and I just figured out texture and porosity a week ago (I think).

I know that I didn't always search before I posted in the beginning either and I now see how annoying I might have been, maybe still am sometimes. A new thread started on [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Kinky-Curly-Curling-Custard-p-778.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=kinkycurly-curling-custard]KCCC[/buylink] when this one http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/showthread.php?t=72340 was up and referenced in more than one post in the last week was just one example of repeat posts. If there was a way to separate all the [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Kinky-Curly-Curling-Custard-p-778.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=kinkycurly-curling-custard]KCCC[/buylink] threads on a board or maybe a techniques board that could be really helpful too. A sticky explaining what plopping, pixiecurl diffusing, etc would be amazing.

I agree that a lot more organization is needed to meet the needs of both newbies and veterans and I'm willing to do what I can.

Steenie

Hi ladies, I'm one of those newbies, yet I've made very good use of the search function to learn a lot here for a couple of months now. What I've discovered is that the search function is a bit inadequate. For example, I started a thread just 2 days ago entitled, in part, "second day hair", yet when I do a thread title search for "second", my own thread doesn't even show up in the results! I can't find any search guidelines anywhere on this site, such as whether 3-letter words are not searched (as is the case on other forums). It also seems impossible to search for two words in a thread title.

I'm no forum expert by any stretch, so I may be missing something obvious, but that's my 2 cents' worth... There's so much information here, it would be great if it were more easily searched....

curlygirl18

I am sort of a newbie..I did lurk for quite awhile before joining. I agree wholeheartedly with Jenn from page 1. When I first signed up, I will admit that I did post before searching a few times, or quickly gave up the search. I did that for the simple reason that I was so excited to have found this site, and as someone mentioned earlier, wanted instant gratification! I usually got it from the "vets" or from other long-time members and felt like everyone cared. Eventually, I realized that I didn't need a hand to hold every second and have been reading a lot more and trying so many new things just by utilizing the Google search function.

I also know that when I first signed up, it would have been awesome to get an email or a PM with, as Jenn said, something telling me what to do or where to go depending on my needs. I was so SO overwhelmed, I can't even describe it! This place was fricken' awesome and I wanted to just know everything right away and I couldn't get enough! (Sound weird!) But either way, having a little guidance would have been great.

My sister has been exploring this site as a guest and has told me that she is so overwhelmed but has been utilizing the search function and found a lot of good things. She said the abbreviations confuse her, but I directed her on what to do. Which kind of leads me to this idea...

This may be far-fetched but perhaps having a "hair buddy" could work (as Mickey stated previously). There could be volunteers to "work with" a newbie. That way the newbie has someone to ask questions to when they have them or go to them instead of continuously posting or feeling so overwhelmed.

I don't want anyone to feel turned off or afraid to post questions because of repeats so consolidating the information would be awesome.

I am grateful to everyone who has helped me...I have felt nothing but wisdom!

Gretchen

jillipoo wrote: »

Oh, this is great! Thanks, everyone, for your input. It's so obvious that we really care about this little community!

Gretchen, thanks for stepping in. Have you already started to receive threads that could be stickied? We don't want to overwhelm you or give you duplicate threads (!), so just holler if you'd rather have the information come from one or two people who could "sift" the links first.

I haven't rec'd any emails with threads yet. I'll keep an eye out.

DEL2C

http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/forumdisplay.php?f=60

Thanks Gretchen! :happy6:

WurlyLox

Thanks, Gretchen, Del, Jilli and everyone else involved! Looks like a very good jumping in place for new members.

I'm gonna look thru it all and see if any of my own hit or miss education fell thru the cracks!

morrighu

This is EXACTLY why I want to set up a CurlWiki where all that stuff is housed in one place instead of in various threads.

Heck, I'd even set up the Wiki software if the peeps here would run it. You can go to wikimatrix and see which one will fit with whatever else you guys are using to run the site.

cutiepatootie

As a newbie, I have to say, this site is all over the place to me. I'm finding great advice but it's very time consuming looking for answers to my own specific questions. I've been all over the boards and the topics are too broad. They leave a lot of room for the same questions and the same answers on more than one thread. I would like the newbie section to have more sticky's on information we (the newbie) usually ask about. Also, I am getting a headache trying to figure out what the acronyms everyone's writing mean....I don't have a clue what veterans are talking about and those are the answers I could be looking for....

The New Black

wow

Gretchen

A Curly Wiki is definitely on our list! We just don't have the staff to do it at the moment.

For now, finding stuff just takes some patience and some good searching skills!