CurlTalk

Abortion thread: 9yo victim pregnant

EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,389Registered Users
Sometimes, children become fertile at a very young age.

From AP
A 9-year-old girl who was carrying twins, allegedly after being raped by her stepfather, underwent an abortion Wednesday despite complaints from Brazil's Roman Catholic church.

Fatima Maia, director of the public university hospital where the abortion was performed, said the 15-week-old pregnancy posed a serious risk to the 80-pound (36-kilogram) girl.

"She is very small. Her uterus doesn't have the ability to hold one, let alone two children," Maia told the Jornal do Brasil newspaper.
From Radio Netherlands Worldwide
Local authorities said the [9-year-old's] procedure was entirely lawful since the pregnancy had placed the girl's life in danger...

Despite this, the Roman Catholic church has threatened to charge the mother of the girl with murder. A lawyer for the archdiocese of Olinda and Recife, which lies in the northeast of the country, says the child should have brought the twins into the world.
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  • MimsTXMimsTX Posts: 3,482Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Despite this, the Roman Catholic church has threatened to charge the mother of the girl with murder. A lawyer for the archdiocese of Olinda and Recife, which lies in the northeast of the country, says the child should have brought the twins into the world.

    That's just sick and twisted. This definitely goes back to what the pro-choicers were saying on that other thread... why are the fetus' rights SO much more important than this innocent child's???

    I'll admit, there are area of the abortion issue that are gray for me. But this is pretty black and white. It makes me sick to think that this girl's mother, who was only looking out for her child by approving the abortion could be charged with murder. Was she just supposed to sit back and watch her child die otherwise???
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  • iaraiara Posts: 1,199Registered Users
    Despite this, the Roman Catholic church has threatened to charge the mother of the girl with murder. A lawyer for the archdiocese of Olinda and Recife, which lies in the northeast of the country, says the child should have brought the twins into the world.

    :sad3:

    I think the RCC should work on addressing our street children epidemic first. I would like to write more, but I probably would end up offending people.


    ETA: And what about the stepfather? If they want to charge anyone, I think he should be charged with murder if he did indeed rape this child. Doubt that would happen since the little girl probably asked for it. :roll:
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  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,389Registered Users
    ^^^ Are you in Brazil?
  • iaraiara Posts: 1,199Registered Users
    Eilonwy wrote: »
    ^^^ Are you in Brazil?
    I am in the U.S. now.
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  • The New BlackThe New Black Posts: 16,738Registered Users
    IMO a fetus is still a human life...It's hard to say who's more "important." However, another side of me says if someone should die, I would not mind if it were the stepfather.
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  • YolyCYolyC Posts: 3,758Registered Users
    Despite this, the Roman Catholic church has threatened to charge the mother of the girl with murder. A lawyer for the archdiocese of Olinda and Recife, which lies in the northeast of the country, says the child should have brought the twins into the world.


    Charge her as in a court of law? how is that possible if the law says:

    Local authorities said the procedure was entirely lawful since the pregnancy had placed the girl's life in danger. In Brazil, abortion is only permitted in cases of rape or when pregnancy threatens the life of the mother


    And I agree if anyone should be charged it should be the step-father. For the rape. If they want to call the abortion murder, then yeah that charge should fall on him too.
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  • fraufrau Posts: 6,130Registered Users
    wow, well that sure is a great example of why abortions should remain legal.
  • Gemini13Gemini13 Posts: 5,000Registered Users
    If it's legal, what gives the RCC the right to charge the girl's mother with murder? Or is this just a case of wanting the publicity?

    My god, this whole situation disgusts me on so many levels.
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  • ScarletScarlet Posts: 3,125Registered Users
    frau wrote: »
    wow, well that sure is a great example of why abortions should remain legal.

    Not only legal, but private. To me, it's not a political issue. It's an intenesly private medical( and yes, moral) decision that should not be open to public debate.
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  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users
    MimsTX wrote: »
    Despite this, the Roman Catholic church has threatened to charge the mother of the girl with murder. A lawyer for the archdiocese of Olinda and Recife, which lies in the northeast of the country, says the child should have brought the twins into the world.

    That's just sick and twisted. This definitely goes back to what the pro-lifers were saying on that other thread... why are the fetus' rights SO much more important than this innocent child's???

    I'll admit, there are area of the abortion issue that are gray for me. But this is pretty black and white. It makes me sick to think that this girl's mother, who was only looking out for her child by approving the abortion could be charged with murder. Was she just supposed to sit back and watch her child die otherwise???


    It was the pro-choicers, not the anti-choicers, who value the already-born woman's (or in this case child's) life. Anti-choicers don't tend to think of the pregnant woman at all. Tough sh*t for her if she dies in pregnancy or birth.

    And EVERY pregnancy risks a woman's life, not just a twin pregnancy in a 9 year old. Every.Single.Pregnancy.Risks.A.Woman's.Life. The pregnant woman should be the only one making the decision to take the risk of pregnancy...or not...not some celibate man sitting on a religious throne wearing a silly hat. If men could get pregnant, abortion would be legal in every country.
  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users
    Gemini13 wrote: »
    If it's legal, what gives the RCC the right to charge the girl's mother with murder? Or is this just a case of wanting the publicity?



    The RCC still runs many countries. The RCC is no better than the Taliban.
  • MimsTXMimsTX Posts: 3,482Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    MimsTX wrote: »
    Despite this, the Roman Catholic church has threatened to charge the mother of the girl with murder. A lawyer for the archdiocese of Olinda and Recife, which lies in the northeast of the country, says the child should have brought the twins into the world.

    That's just sick and twisted. This definitely goes back to what the pro-lifers were saying on that other thread... why are the fetus' rights SO much more important than this innocent child's???

    I'll admit, there are area of the abortion issue that are gray for me. But this is pretty black and white. It makes me sick to think that this girl's mother, who was only looking out for her child by approving the abortion could be charged with murder. Was she just supposed to sit back and watch her child die otherwise???


    It was the pro-choicers, not the anti-choicers, who value the already-born woman's (or in this case child's) life.

    Sorry, just mispoke. it's early yet. Editting my original post :)
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  • iaraiara Posts: 1,199Registered Users
    Scarlet wrote: »
    Not only legal, but private. To me, it's not a political issue. It's an intenesly private medical( and yes, moral) decision that should not be open to public debate.
    I wish more people thought like this.
    You cannot invite someone to your house in the Hamptons and when she arrives, not let her stay. Tacky. Very Tacky. ~ East Village hipster.

    People in Ward Three disdain three things: cleavage, hunting and dumb people who are richer than they are. ~ David Brooks

    Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it. ~Armaments 2:9-21
  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,389Registered Users
    The RCC still runs many countries. The RCC is no better than the Taliban.

    Let's see who takes the bait.

    Although I have to admit, for many countries that's not too much of an exaggeration when it comes to women's rights. The choice of forced motherhood or forced celibacy (which could mean poverty, if women can't generally support themselves) is incredibly limiting.

    I think, though, that the RCC is less likely to execute a man because his pants are longer than Jesus' were. (The Taliban in Pakistan recently killed a man because his pants were longer than Mohammad's.)

    EDIT: Just wanted to add that the pants thing is not an actual Islamic rule. It's unique to the taliban.
  • Oregano  (formerly babywavy)Oregano (formerly babywavy) Posts: 5,297Registered Users
    MimsTX wrote: »
    Despite this, the Roman Catholic church has threatened to charge the mother of the girl with murder. A lawyer for the archdiocese of Olinda and Recife, which lies in the northeast of the country, says the child should have brought the twins into the world.

    That's just sick and twisted. This definitely goes back to what the pro-lifers were saying on that other thread... why are the fetus' rights SO much more important than this innocent child's???

    I'll admit, there are area of the abortion issue that are gray for me. But this is pretty black and white. It makes me sick to think that this girl's mother, who was only looking out for her child by approving the abortion could be charged with murder. Was she just supposed to sit back and watch her child die otherwise???


    It was the pro-choicers, not the anti-choicers, who value the already-born woman's (or in this case child's) life. Anti-choicers don't tend to think of the pregnant woman at all. Tough sh*t for her if she dies in pregnancy or birth.

    And EVERY pregnancy risks a woman's life, not just a twin pregnancy in a 9 year old. Every.Single.Pregnancy.Risks.A.Woman's.Life. The pregnant woman should be the only one making the decision to take the risk of pregnancy...or not...not some celibate man sitting on a religious throne wearing a silly hat. If men could get pregnant, abortion would be illegal in every country.


    I think you mean legal, right? If men could get pregnant abortion would be legal in every country.
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  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users
    Eilonwy wrote: »
    The RCC still runs many countries. The RCC is no better than the Taliban.

    Let's see who takes the bait.


    It's not bait. It's true. So many christians are on a high horse, thinking they are oh-so-much better than that terrible Taliban and Islam, when in reality, the christian religion is every bit as oppressive to women as Islam.
  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users
    babywavy wrote: »
    MimsTX wrote: »

    That's just sick and twisted. This definitely goes back to what the pro-lifers were saying on that other thread... why are the fetus' rights SO much more important than this innocent child's???

    I'll admit, there are area of the abortion issue that are gray for me. But this is pretty black and white. It makes me sick to think that this girl's mother, who was only looking out for her child by approving the abortion could be charged with murder. Was she just supposed to sit back and watch her child die otherwise???


    It was the pro-choicers, not the anti-choicers, who value the already-born woman's (or in this case child's) life. Anti-choicers don't tend to think of the pregnant woman at all. Tough sh*t for her if she dies in pregnancy or birth.

    And EVERY pregnancy risks a woman's life, not just a twin pregnancy in a 9 year old. Every.Single.Pregnancy.Risks.A.Woman's.Life. The pregnant woman should be the only one making the decision to take the risk of pregnancy...or not...not some celibate man sitting on a religious throne wearing a silly hat. If men could get pregnant, abortion would be illegal in every country.


    I think you mean legal, right? If men could get pregnant abortion would be legal in every country.



    Crap...yes, legal. I'll fix the OP.
  • YolyCYolyC Posts: 3,758Registered Users
    If men could get pregnant, abortion would be illegal in every country.


    I think the opposite would be true. I think if it were men who would face all these risk associated with pregnancy, labor and delivery, they'd make sure it was legal. I don't think it's about the fetus, it's about wanting to control women.
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  • journotravelerjournotraveler Posts: 2,816Registered Users
    Eilonwy wrote: »
    The RCC still runs many countries. The RCC is no better than the Taliban.

    Let's see who takes the bait.


    It's not bait. It's true. So many christians are on a high horse, thinking they are oh-so-much better than that terrible Taliban and Islam, when in reality, the christian religion is every bit as oppressive to women as Islam.

    i grew up catholic and am no longer catholic or christian for a myriad of reasons, particularly the catholic church's retrograde treatment of women. and i agree that americans, in general, and christians in particular, can be incredibly smug and condescending when it comes to islam.

    but i've been to afghanistan, right after the fall of the taliban. i've spent a lot of time talking to afghani women. trust me when i tell you that the taliban is far, far worse than the RCC. for starters, under the taliban, it was illegal for women to be educated. a woman unaccompanied by a male relative would be beaten, etc., etc.
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  • BoomygrrlBoomygrrl Posts: 4,940Registered Users
    The stepfather will not be charged with murder, because God-forbid in a patriarchal belief system that he should be at fault for the consequences of his actions. He might or might not be guilty of rape in their eyes...perhaps they can show in their sick and twisted minds that the girl wanted it or asked for it...but even if they think he's guilty of rape...they are still going to go after the woman for protecting her child. Shame on her for making such a tough decision and wanting to protect her child, even though it was the gutless, sick jerk who put them in the situation to begin with.

    I'm pro-choice, but I can respect many pro-lifers who honestly think abortion is killing someone. However, the ones that value the fetus over the woman (or in this case, child) to the point of not caring about the woman's life...that to me is sick and immoral. My mother is pro-life but she takes the woman's health into consideration. My brother is one of those sick pro-lifers who values fetuses to the exclusion of the mother, if need be.
    I respect my mother's difference of opinion, but not my brother's.
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  • CynaminbearCynaminbear Posts: 4,476Registered Users
    I agree that abortion is a personal and private matter, and shouldn't be politicized. The RCC has overstepped itself.

    I am pro-life and do not think the pregnant woman's life means squat, so RCW, I think your comment is unfair. That's grossly distorted to say the pro-lifers don't care about the mother and only care about the baby.

    I want to know what was done to the stepfather. Did they dna test the babies to determine he was the father? Has he been prosecuted? And if so, was it a slap on the wrist or a charge of child rape? What are Brazil's laws regarding child rape?
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  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,389Registered Users
    *Cricket* wrote: »
    I am pro-life and do not think the pregnant woman's life means squat, so RCW, I think your comment is unfair.

    Cricket, just so you know, "...do not think the pregnant woman's life means squat" makes it sound like you think it's worth less than squat. What you really meant became clear from the context. However, you may want to edit it, as someone may hastily respond.
  • BoomygrrlBoomygrrl Posts: 4,940Registered Users
    Oh yes, abortion would be legal if men were all of a sudden the ones to get pregnant. You better believe it.
    And, yep, the abortion issue more times than not seems to be about controlling women's sexuality/lives. Again, not all pro-lifers are trying to control women, but I think a lot really get disgusted that women can be sexual, have the power to give birth, and decide for themselves whether they want to or not.
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  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users
    Eilonwy wrote: »

    Let's see who takes the bait.


    It's not bait. It's true. So many christians are on a high horse, thinking they are oh-so-much better than that terrible Taliban and Islam, when in reality, the christian religion is every bit as oppressive to women as Islam.

    i grew up catholic and am no longer catholic or christian for a myriad of reasons, particularly the catholic church's retrograde treatment of women. and i agree that americans, in general, and christians in particular, can be incredibly smug and condescending when it comes to islam.

    but i've been to afghanistan, right after the fall of the taliban. i've spent a lot of time talking to afghani women. trust me when i tell you that the taliban is far, far worse than the RCC. for starters, under the taliban, it was illegal for women to be educated. a woman unaccompanied by a male relative would be beaten, etc., etc.



    It's just a matter of degree. Oppression is oppression is oppression. Western women have fought against many of the more flagrant treatments. It wasn't so long ago that American women couldn't be educated or own property or vote. I never lose sight of the fact that if we weren't constantly fighting to keep those rights, religious-minded folks would try to take those rights away from women, and oppress them to the point of Afghani women.
  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users
    *Cricket* wrote: »
    I am pro-life and do not think the pregnant woman's life means squat, so RCW, I think your comment is unfair. That's grossly distorted to say the pro-lifers don't care about the mother and only care about the baby.


    If you truly cared about the plight of women, you wouldn't want to take away their rights and give them to a fetus.
  • SpringcurlSpringcurl Posts: 8,002Registered Users
    *Cricket* wrote: »
    I am pro-life and do not think the pregnant woman's life means squat, so RCW, I think your comment is unfair. That's grossly distorted to say the pro-lifers don't care about the mother and

    If I'm being honest, I have to say that from my perspective, when I talk to other anti-choice people, I don't get the feeling that they care at all about the mother.

    I say this simply because whenever I've talked to them about abortion, if it comes down to the baby or the mother, they choose the baby every time unless it's a VERY clear cut case that the mother's going to die.
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  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,389Registered Users
    When abortion is illegal, girls women who can't afford to travel resort to back-alley abortions. These procedures often kill both the pregnant girls and women and the fetuses.

    If you take the phrase literally, virtually everyone is "pro life." And virtually everyone wishes that abortions occurred less frequently. I think the best way to prevent abortion is to increase access to other options. We need better prophylactic education for teens, and better social services to assist pregnant women and mothers.
  • ScarletScarlet Posts: 3,125Registered Users


    It's not bait. It's true. So many christians are on a high horse, thinking they are oh-so-much better than that terrible Taliban and Islam, when in reality, the christian religion is every bit as oppressive to women as Islam.

    i grew up catholic and am no longer catholic or christian for a myriad of reasons, particularly the catholic church's retrograde treatment of women. and i agree that americans, in general, and christians in particular, can be incredibly smug and condescending when it comes to islam.

    but i've been to afghanistan, right after the fall of the taliban. i've spent a lot of time talking to afghani women. trust me when i tell you that the taliban is far, far worse than the RCC. for starters, under the taliban, it was illegal for women to be educated. a woman unaccompanied by a male relative would be beaten, etc., etc.



    It's just a matter of degree. Oppression is oppression is oppression. Western women have fought against many of the more flagrant treatments. It wasn't so long ago that American women couldn't be educated or own property or vote. I never lose sight of the fact that if we weren't constantly fighting to keep those rights, religious-minded folks would try to take those rights away from women, and oppress them to the point of Afghani women.

    First you say the Catholic Church is just like the Taliban, now it's a matter of degree (and the post I just quoted really seems to contradict your initial comments). But anyway, your dislike for anything having to do with Christianity is pathological. Whether you like religion or not is your prerogative, but any rational, well-thought out arguments you make go right out the window when this sort of stuff comes in.
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  • CynaminbearCynaminbear Posts: 4,476Registered Users
    Eilonwy wrote: »
    *Cricket* wrote: »
    I am pro-life and do not think the pregnant woman's life means squat, so RCW, I think your comment is unfair.

    Cricket, just so you know, "...do not think the pregnant woman's life means squat" makes it sound like you think it's worth less than squat. What you really meant became clear from the context. However, you may want to edit it, as someone may hastily respond.

    Are you for real?
    I had no idea you were so detail minded and nitpicky.
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  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,389Registered Users
    ^^^ I have often copped on these boards to being detail-minded and nitpicky.

    I was trying to be helpful, not bossy. Several other people in this thread have pointed out similar ambiguities or typos in other posts. It's a very controversial topic, and a simple misinterpretation on the part of a reader can quickly spin out of hand. However, I was not telling you to edit that post, or even saying that you should.