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Black RNC chair told, "You be da man!"

EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,389Registered Users
CNN wrote:
As he concluded his remarks, Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann — the event's moderator — told Steele he was “da man.”

"Michael Steele! You be da man! You be da man,” she said."

Michael Steele is her Black Friend (TM)

Comments

  • Myradella3Myradella3 Posts: 2,481Registered Users
    And we expect different from her because....?
  • The New BlackThe New Black Posts: 16,738Registered Users
    How did he seem to react? I've had people do similar things to me. There were times when it was obvious they assumed I spoke that way (no matter how articulate I obviously was). And there were times when they were speaking that way because it was popular slang at the time and they would have said it to me if I were White also.

    And why did you post 2 threads on it?
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  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users
    Michele Bachmann is a ridiculous human. And, unfortunately, a typical Republican.

    How about that Michael Steele sucking up and apologizing to Rush Limbaugh within an hour of saying that Rush wasn't the leader of the Repulican party...he actually said that Rush IS a leader, if not THE leader? Steele has no backbone. And Rush Limbaugh is leading the party, not Steele.
  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,389Registered Users
    Phoenix wrote: »
    There were times when it was obvious they assumed I spoke that way (no matter how articulate I obviously was). And there were times when they were speaking that way because it was popular slang at the time and they would have said it to me if I were White also.

    I didn't see his reaction. I just read the article. It's possible that Bachmann was simply trying (and failing) to be cool, since Steele recently commented that he wanted the GOP to be the hip hop party.

    However, the phrase she was referring to is "You the man"--no "be." AAVE has five different present constructions. Dropping the coppula, as in "You the man," is the plain present tense. The most maligned present construction in AAVE is "__ be __ing," which refers to habitual actions. People seem to feel that that one sounds especially "inarticulate" or "ignorant." So, people who imitate AAVE by constructing every sentence as "__ be __ing," tend to have very little respect for that dialect--or for the people who speak it.

    It wouldn't make much sense to say "You be being the man." So it sounds like "You be the man" is an adaptation of that construction. I certainly don't think that Bachmann has a reason to intentionally insult or belittle Steele. However, "You be da man" seems pretty patronizing to me.

    Phoenix wrote: »
    And why did you post 2 threads on it?

    I realized that the title of the first thread was confusing. I don't think most people know who Bachmann is. (I certainly didn't, prior to reading the article.) And given the lack of context, people may not have realized which Steele I meant.

    Plus people love "never mind, go hog wild" threads, so I figured I wasn't doing any damage.
  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,389Registered Users
    How about that Michael Steele sucking up and apologizing to Rush Limbaugh within an hour of saying that Rush wasn't the leader of the Repulican party...he actually said that Rush IS a leader, if not THE leader? Steele has no backbone. And Rush Limbaugh is leading the party, not Steele.

    The GOP's move over the past 10 years to focus on their most hardcore supporters has alienated a lot of moderate conservatives and right-leaning centrists. (Although of course, in a worldwide context, the Democratic leaders are generally right-leaning centrists.)

    Limbaugh is a polarizing figure whose views can't exactly be described as "moderate." It's expected that his increased influence will alienate even more Republicans from the party, and decrease the number of new supporters.
  • rainshowerrainshower Posts: 4,420Registered Users
    i can't stand it when white people change their vernacular and inflection when talking to black people. "you go, girl!" "all right, miss thing!" "you weren't in yesterday; were you 'chilling out' at home?" "this is my main man right here." inflection is often stressed on the bold words, which lets you know that this isn't language that they normally use.

    last night on Idol, the new judge referred to the black wild card woman as "girl" when praising her. she didn't use that term or change her inflection when talking to the white girls/women. randy calls everybody dude, the males and females alike. the girl remark was different and something that i've experienced and witness.

    particularly if you are a nonblack person who does this only when talking to black people ... stop. it's annoying and presumptuous and belittling, and you will be talked about.
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  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,389Registered Users
    ^^^ I think the fact that people deliberately do that sort of thing as an insult should be a big tip-off that it's patronizing. When making fun/insulting of a group that's associated with a certain language or dialect, people tend to incorporate snippets of that way of speaking into what they say.

    For example, I've seen anti-semitic conspiracy theorists write things like: "Oy vey, more evidence that the Zionist banking conspiracy is trying to destroy us goyim." (I'm Jewish so I'm allowed to write that etc. etc.)
  • shellibeanshellibean Posts: 4,500Registered Users
    So, say I say stuff like "girl", chill", etc. to everyone. should I make an effort NOT to say it in front of my black friends? Well, they know I talk that way to everyone, so I guess that's not a good question... Okay, should I make an effort NOT to talk like that in front of black people that don't know me? I don't want anyone thinking I am saying certain words b/c I'm in their presence.... I mean, I want to not have to worry about what I say (obviously unless it is rude, inappropriate, offensive, etc). I just want to talk like I talk. And, since when are "girl" and chill" black only words?

    ETA: My post is completely sincere. I agree how dumb it is to say stuff just because of who you are around. I didn't want anyone to think I was defending that.
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  • Nappy_curly_crownNappy_curly_crown Posts: 4,162Registered Users
    Michele Bachmann is a ridiculous human. And, unfortunately, a typical Republican.

    How about that Michael Steele sucking up and apologizing to Rush Limbaugh within an hour of saying that Rush wasn't the leader of the Repulican party...he actually said that Rush IS a leader, if not THE leader? Steele has no backbone. And Rush Limbaugh is leading the party, not Steele.

    Don't EVEN get me started on this one!!!!

    Micheal Steele actually said that he was "inarticulate" and that's why his words came out differently than what he intended. WTF are you SERIOUS? There's no way in HE!! anyone would ever get me to say that ish about my self...i don't care who I pissed off. I may not like the man's politics...but I can't BELIEVE that he is kissing Rush's fat pale a$$. Steele might as well bend over and take it like a man cause Rush is gonna give it to him right up the rear.
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  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,389Registered Users
    I may not like the man's politics...but I can't BELIEVE that he is kissing Rush's fat pale a$$.

    Well, I think the consensus is that this is good for the Democrats.
  • geminigemini Posts: 3,325Registered Users
    particularly if you are a nonblack person who does this only when talking to black people ... stop. it's annoying and presumptuous and belittling, and you will be talked about.

    I agree. I hate this. My manager does this once in a blue moon, and my hackles would raise because of it--until I noticed he talked the same way to his boss's wife. She is an older white woman. He is just being friendly.
  • Nappy_curly_crownNappy_curly_crown Posts: 4,162Registered Users
    shellibean wrote: »
    So, say I say stuff like "girl", chill", etc. to everyone. should I make an effort NOT to say it in front of my black friends? Well, they know I talk that way to everyone, so I guess that's not a good question... Okay, should I make an effort NOT to talk like that in front of black people that don't know me? I don't want anyone thinking I am saying certain words b/c I'm in their presence.... I mean, I want to not have to worry about what I say (obviously unless it is rude, inappropriate, offensive, etc). I just want to talk like I talk. And, since when are "girl" and chill" black only words?

    ETA: My post is completely sincere. I agree how dumb it is to say stuff just because of who you are around. I didn't want anyone to think I was defending that.

    Shelli

    I have white friends that speak in urban slang and what most people consider "ebonics" and you can just tell that it is not forced or that they are trying to be "cool"....it is just the way that they speak. The inflection is different...the sentence structure is different (so are the word combinations), and its not as if they are "translating" in thier mind what they want to say into a different language (does that make sense?).

    I think the point that rainshower is making is that when it is not the normal speech pattern and snyx of the person...it is quite obvious.
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  • shellibeanshellibean Posts: 4,500Registered Users
    BTW- slighlty off the main topic: I think it is HILARIOUS when older peopel try to speak "HIP"! :) My friends dad works in an office with several young girls and she said he is awlways trying to say stuff to be "cool" and it is sooooooo funny! (To her it is horrifying, I'm sure). He told her to get "out of his kool-aid" one day!!! She is in her early 30s and so he must be in his like late 50s....Mind you he is a short, fat white man who dresses like a cowboy. It is hilarious b/c he is not making fun of those girls; he really thinks he is young & cool b/c he knows the young lingo! :)
    A closed mind is a wonderful thing to lose.

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  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,389Registered Users
    what most people consider "ebonics"

    You can call it AAVE (African American Vernacular English), and then you won't have to use scare quotes :)

    The only problem with that name is that AAVE is the native dialect of a lot of people who are not African American, including White people.
  • shellibeanshellibean Posts: 4,500Registered Users
    Ah! I get it. Like, when they make it soudn all awkward? Or mess it up? Haha! My part-time boss does this! He is a fun/funny guy but man... He's the kind of guy that says, "What's up GangstER?" Hahaha!
    A closed mind is a wonderful thing to lose.

    "...you could have a turd on your head and no one would notice."~Subbrock

    "I had an imaginary puppy, but my grandpa ate him."~Bailey
  • The New BlackThe New Black Posts: 16,738Registered Users
    Eilonwy wrote: »
    Phoenix wrote: »
    There were times when it was obvious they assumed I spoke that way (no matter how articulate I obviously was). And there were times when they were speaking that way because it was popular slang at the time and they would have said it to me if I were White also.

    I didn't see his reaction. I just read the article. It's possible that Bachmann was simply trying (and failing) to be cool, since Steele recently commented that he wanted the GOP to be the hip hop party.

    However, the phrase she was referring to is "You the man"--no "be." AAVE has five different present constructions. Dropping the coppula, as in "You the man," is the plain present tense. The most maligned present construction in AAVE is "__ be __ing," which refers to habitual actions. People seem to feel that that one sounds especially "inarticulate" or "ignorant." So, people who imitate AAVE by constructing every sentence as "__ be __ing," tend to have very little respect for that dialect--or for the people who speak it.

    It wouldn't make much sense to say "You be being the man." So it sounds like "You be the man" is an adaptation of that construction. I certainly don't think that Bachmann has a reason to intentionally insult or belittle Steele. However, "You be da man" seems pretty patronizing to me.

    You're one of the very few people I know who'd break it down like that. I agree it seemed particularly patronizing.

    And I didn't know Ebonics included 5 different present tenses. This reminds me of the time I corrected my Jewish friend on how to spell yarmulke. She seemed perturbed. I'm not, but it just feels weird. Hope you're not offended...
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  • Nappy_curly_crownNappy_curly_crown Posts: 4,162Registered Users
    Eilonwy wrote: »
    what most people consider "ebonics"

    You can call it AAVE (African American Vernacular English), and then you won't have to use scare quotes :)

    The only problem with that name is that AAVE is the native dialect of a lot of people who are not African American, including White people.

    I used ebonics because that's the common term that most people know (i has to look up AAVE to be honest the first time u used it...lol). And you're right...it IS the native dialect of a lot of white people...that's why for those that it is....it doesn't sound all fake. I'm curious though...are there certain parts of the country that this is more common in? You seem to be well versed in this topic so I thought I'd ask.
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  • AmberWavesAmberWaves Posts: 231Registered Users
    Phoenix wrote: »
    How did he seem to react? I've had people do similar things to me. There were times when it was obvious they assumed I spoke that way (no matter how articulate I obviously was). And there were times when they were speaking that way because it was popular slang at the time and they would have said it to me if I were White also.

    And why did you post 2 threads on it?
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  • BoomygrrlBoomygrrl Posts: 4,940Registered Users
    Mr. Steele kissing up to Limbaugh is pretty disturbing. I thought Steele was the leader of the Republican party, not Rush. He needs to stand up for himself here. Really, if they want to claim LImbaugh as their leader, be my guest. It will alienate more mainstream conservatives. I really think the repub party is out of touch and getting to be more so. When you hear what they want to do to revitalize their party, I think "yeah, go ahead and try that but don't be surprised if the dems win again during the next election."
    I personally think the republican party needs to stand true to being fiscally conservative and they need to market that concept better to people. They need to make sure they don't come across as tryng to steel from the underprivileged children, as they've been portrayed by the left. But they need to show how being fiscally conservative can help America, and yadda yadda yadda. They need to shut their mouths (if they want to be elected) about more "moralistic" view points. They need to come up with "conservative" solutions to problems rather than show that they are willing to take away people's personal rights and freedoms. Rather than running a pro-life platform, they can talk about wanting to provide education to prevent (or minimize at least) unwanted pregnancies. Of course, the religious-right side of the conservative party will not go for that...but they really need to distance themselves from the religious-right. That's not to say they cannot be personally religious, but if they want mainstream Americans with various viewpoints to vote for them, they really need to be careful how they come across.
    I think they tried to look more diverse with Steele...and maybe that can be a good thing for them. I just wish Steele didn't kiss up to Limbaugh. This was the time for him to show that he is revitalizing the conservative party and trying to shake things up. He didn't succeed in doing that.
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  • snappynappysnappynappy Posts: 1,262Registered Users
    rainshower wrote: »
    i can't stand it when white people change their vernacular and inflection when talking to black people. "you go, girl!" "all right, miss thing!" "you weren't in yesterday; were you 'chilling out' at home?" "this is my main man right here." inflection is often stressed on the bold words, which lets you know that this isn't language that they normally use.

    last night on Idol, the new judge referred to the black wild card woman as "girl" when praising her. she didn't use that term or change her inflection when talking to the white girls/women. randy calls everybody dude, the males and females alike. the girl remark was different and something that i've experienced and witness.

    particularly if you are a nonblack person who does this only when talking to black people ... stop. it's annoying and presumptuous and belittling, and you will be talked about.


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  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,389Registered Users
    I used ebonics because that's the common term that most people know (i has to look up AAVE to be honest the first time u used it...lol). And you're right...it IS the native dialect of a lot of white people...that's why for those that it is....it doesn't sound all fake. I'm curious though...are there certain parts of the country that this is more common in? You seem to be well versed in this topic so I thought I'd ask.

    LOL, I had no idea this thread got moved here!

    Basically, non-Black people are more likely to speak AAVE if they frequently interact with African Americans, and if those African Americans frequently speak in AAVE to non-Black people. I don't know which specific parts of the country that would be.

    Anyway, I wouldn't say that I'm "well versed" in this topic. After all, it's not a dialect that I can speak. Most of what I know comes from the book Spoken Soul: The Story of Black English. The book covers the history and development of AAVE; its sounds/accent, syntax, and vocabulary; its stigmatized status and the Oakland Unified School District controversy; rhetorical styles that use AAVE, from preaching to rap; and the reproduction of AAVE in various media.

    The authors' overall argument is that, while it's important to be able to speak and write in Standard American English (SAE), you can't get African American children to learn SAE by telling them that their native dialect is "lazy" or "bad" English. Therefore, teachers should be well versed in AAVE, and use it as a starting point for teaching SAE. This is what the Oakland Unified School District proposed, but it turned into a massive controversy because of the stigma against AAVE and the accompanying racism.

    The book is a little controversial, because its authors argue that AAVE is a distinct language, rather than a dialect of English. In order to support this idea, they attribute some features of AAVE to African languages, when those features could also have come from British English dialects. However, while saying that AAVE is a distinct language is not the mainstream appraisal, it's not unfounded or "out there."

    Anyway, there's information on Spoken Soul, and excerpts from it, all over the internet. You can google it if you want to know more about it.

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