CurlTalk

Frustrated As Can Be - Stylist Finding

henchpersonhenchperson Posts: 67Registered Users
I'm trying to find a new stylist in Chicago.

Now, I'm to blame for torturing my hair with heat products and straightironing for 20 years, but the stylists didn't help. Nearly every single stylist I've seen in the last ten years has said "Oh, what lovely thick wavy hair!" and reached for her flatiron and her thinning shears. I don't know - is it something they teach in stylist school?
So I have an appointment this coming Wednesday before a cut with a new stylist - I just need the back trimmed up to the hairline, so the rest of the hair can grow down to meet it, and then I'll wait forever and ever for the "thinned" pieces to make it down. So it's an easy cut.
Now that I"ve read the CG book, apparently wet-cutting isn't a good idea for curly OR wavy hair. And every single hair cut I've gotten in the last ten years was a wet cut - which was then blowdried and straightironed, because (I think) the stylist didn't realize I had wavy hair, or assumed I wanted straight hair, or the haircut I'd showed her that I liked was of straight hair. Do I go in to this stylist and add "dry cut" to the rest of my list, which involves no thinning, no razoring, and no heat styling, and as little product as possible?
Remember that I've only just gotten CG, so I'm still figuring things out, and that I'm not necessarily a Curly Girl - I'm a Wavy Girl, and that's different. Still, looking for a stylist who doesn't want to thin the thickness and straighten the waves seems to be difficult. I called three salons today and told them what I was looking for. All three salons assured me that everyone with wavy hair looks better with straight hair, and that thinning shears are standard for people with thick hair, etc. Oh, and that flatirons don't damage hair as long as you use product with them. Sure. And unicorns are in my living room watching CSI right now, too.
So I'm a little nervous. This salon has a good reputation, and the stylist I'm seeing is actually willing to meet with me before she cuts my hair, which is a good sign. I guess if I don't trust her, I hobble out on my crutches as fast as I can. But I'm going to need a haircut eventually - actually, I need one now. So how do I find one that's not going to do terrible things to my head?
Not curly, but wavy. Learning to love it.
Valiantly attempting to become a product minimalist.
«1

Comments

  • lushaholiclushaholic Posts: 2,180Registered Users
    I checked to see if there were any Devachan Curl Consultants in your area, but I don't see any listed on the Devachan site. But, there are serveral salons in Chicago that sell Devacurl products, so maybe one of them might have someone who specializes in curly hair? Otherwise you could check the salon review section of this site (under 'curlscene' up at the top right corner) and see what salons other curlies in your area have recommended. Good luck! :)
    3a/2c f/mii. pics added 2/3/07
    spingbannerwk6.jpghycoffeeiconuy8.gif
  • henchpersonhenchperson Posts: 67Registered Users
    I was amazed there were no Devachan consultants in Chicago - what, they have them in Cleveland, but not Chicago?
    I did check the listing of salons, but ran into the problem that you often get on a review site - what someone adores, someone else hates. For every good review of someone, there seems to be a bad review and I end up nervous.
    I did call "Arabesque" salon and leave a message for Lena.

    What I was hoping for with this post was some other Chicagoan coming in and saying "oh yes, you need to see xxxy, since they're WONDERFUL!"

    Sadly, I rarely get what I'm hoping for. :D

    And are you truly a Lushaholic? I love their skin care line and the soaps, but have been disappointed by the line of hair stuff.
    Not curly, but wavy. Learning to love it.
    Valiantly attempting to become a product minimalist.
  • stubbornirishhairstubbornirishhair Posts: 118Registered Users
    I sympathize with your plight henchperson. Finding someone willing to work with wavy hair the way it is is really difficult. The only other thing I can think of is to find a stylist who was trained in Europe, because they learn how to cut hair dry. Don't be afraid to put the whole thing off, too.
    2B wavy thick hair
    Fia=2a M iii
    modified CG since 1/12/06
  • henchpersonhenchperson Posts: 67Registered Users
    Well, Lena at Arabesque had a distinct accent on her voicemail....I can always hope.

    Should we start a sub-forum for Wavy Thick Crazy Irish Hair? :P
    Not curly, but wavy. Learning to love it.
    Valiantly attempting to become a product minimalist.
  • henchpersonhenchperson Posts: 67Registered Users
    Lena called back - apparently, she's purchased the salon and it's no longer Arabesque. Seems to have been some staff changes, too. And this is very recent - I got the feeling that it's been maybe a week since it happened. The name change to Lena Cyrus Salon hasn't been published anywhere, and there isn't even a sign on her door, she says.
    Wow, was I reassured after talking to her. She says that thinning shears are horrible, that wavy hair is often curly hair just waiting to be set free, and that I should never shampoo more than twice a week. And that I should remember that conditioner is my friend, oil is good for my hair, and that while it's nice to comb your hair every once in a while, finger-styling is the best idea to get really good curls.
    I have an appointment on the 10th - she says between now and then, not to let heat touch my head because she needs to get a really good idea of how badly it's been damaged before she even thinks about cutting it. Recent heat styling = new damage, and the new damage could mask old damage, apparently. She sounded like she really knew what she was talking about. Says she's got kinky-curly hair and that once the "thinned" pieces grow out, my hair is going to be gorgeous. And if I cut down on the shampoo, probably curly, too.
    So I'm reassured. And I'll report back on the 10th.
    Not curly, but wavy. Learning to love it.
    Valiantly attempting to become a product minimalist.
  • back2natureback2nature Posts: 37Registered Users
    Hi Henchperson!

    Just wanted to say good luck with your hair cut. It sounds like you were really fortunate to find someone so knowledgable about wavy hair.

    I checked out your hair journal, and I think we might be hair twins! I've been waiting a year for my hair twin to come along :D Sadly, I have no pictures. But once your hair gets longer, I'll be able to tell for sure.
    Please update us ASAP on your hair cut!

    ETA: Hmm...I scrolled down and saw your older picture...I'm afraid we might not be twins after all :( But I'm still anxious to hear about your hair cut!
    2b/2c M iii
    Haven't straightened since 4/1/06!
    Proud to be a Product Minimalist (PM)
    PW: wavy
  • henchpersonhenchperson Posts: 67Registered Users
    We might be twins - my hair varies from day to day and from picture to picture, because I've been futzing around with styling products and conditioners and all those exciting things. The most recent pictures are the more accurate ones of what my hair really looks like, since the light in the bathroom I normally take my pictures in really washes out my hair color (and face color), and my husband took the pictures in the living room. Reluctantly. While saying "you're going to post pictures of your hair to the web? you've clearly lost your mind, honey."

    I'm really interested to find out what my hair is really like. Because I don't know. I've been straightening, blow-drying, dying, bleaching, streaking, etc. for the last twenty years. Seriously. When I grew my hair out to my natural color about a year and half ago, it came as a shock to me and everyone else that I was a brunette with red highlights. Because it had been that long since anyone had seen my natural haircolor. When I started dying it (high school), I'd peroxide the HELL out of it, then layer a Manic Panic color over it to get a really vibrant purple or maroon. My dad just dropped off some family photos - I'll have to see if I can find one of those, because they were priceless. When I hit college, I went nearly-platinum-blonde and stayed that way, more or less, for ten years. And then I went red. And back to blonde. And sort of maroon. Etc.
    That whole time, too, I've been trying to CHANGE my hair. Change the curls, change the thickness, change whatever I could about it. Make it different.
    Now I'm trying to just make it mine. And I'm having way too much fun with the Hair Journal (could you tell)? The Hair Boutique system was nice, but wow, was it unstable, so LiveJournals are free and much more stable. Copying over the posts and pictures were pain, but it's much easier to update now.
    The next set of pix will be prior to the 10th - day of haircut - and we'll see if we're near-twins or actual twins!
    Not curly, but wavy. Learning to love it.
    Valiantly attempting to become a product minimalist.
  • stubbornirishhairstubbornirishhair Posts: 118Registered Users
    This new stylist sounds promising! I am going to be having the same frustration as you soon, my hair is getting to the point where its looking worse, and I wasn't thrilled with it when I first got it cut either. The stylist cut it wet, telling me it was straight, and then was surprised when it sprang to life after styling. The shortest layers were cut right about jaw length, so my hair looks messy with waves fighting each other and its not getting any better as it gets longer. I work at a university and it would be nice if it looked good for commencement, so I am going to be hunting around Boston for a stylist soon I fear.
    By the way I have to confess, the reason I don't have pics is because I'd have to borrow a digital camera, take them in secret, and figure out how to get them on the web. The reason for secrecy is that it seems vain and I'm embarassed to be vain because it is a venial sin. The old catechism dies hard!
    2B wavy thick hair
    Fia=2a M iii
    modified CG since 1/12/06
  • henchpersonhenchperson Posts: 67Registered Users
    Oh, that Catholic indoctrination, it goes deep.

    My Hair Journal is largely for my own use, to see how my hair changes. Under my "real" LJ name, I have a whole scrapbook of my hair from 2002 to now. I'll have to put it up on the hair journal.

    Especially the picture of me with maroon hair. :roll:
    Not curly, but wavy. Learning to love it.
    Valiantly attempting to become a product minimalist.
  • henchpersonhenchperson Posts: 67Registered Users
    Tonight, I realized that in the short time I've been experimenting with the CG system, my scalp has adapted. Seriously.
    I oiled up my hair yesterday to get rid of some dry, frizzy spots, and then (wouldn't you know it) got sent to the ER at 11pm. So I ran a bunch of baking soda through my hair to soak up the oil. My hair wasn't shiny, but it wasn't oily, either. Besides, they weren't looking at my hair.
    So today I washed my hair with California baby tea tree/lavender shampoo, which is really gentle and uses only vegetable clensers. I had to give my hair and scalp a good scrub, since the oil and the baking soda had formed into a kind of gunk at scalp-level. I conditioned with the Aubrey Island Naturals and left it in for a while, then rinsed and did the whole blot-scrunch-gel-scrunch thing that's outlined in the book.
    Point A: My hair is curly. Like, boom, I have curls. Not wavy. Curly.
    Point B: My scalp is itchy. Really itchy. I've tried scratching, I've tried lotion, I've tried jojoba, and the only thing I can come up with is that my scalp is mad that I stripped it of oil during the shampoo. Seriously. I've been doing this for what, two weeks, and I haven't been shampoo-free at all, just very sparing and gentle. But today I had to scrub. And I've managed to strip out all the oils, just the way I used to every day when I'd wash my hair. My scalp? Does not like this.
    So despite the fact that I have to go to the orthopedic surgeon tomorrow, I may get up earlyish and do a CO-wash to placate my scalp. Otherwise I'm going to spend my entire trip to the doctor scratching my head, and that's never a good look on anyone.

    I did take pictures of my curls tonight, which I will post once I'm a little less...um. In an air cast and on crutches. :wink:
    Not curly, but wavy. Learning to love it.
    Valiantly attempting to become a product minimalist.
  • back2natureback2nature Posts: 37Registered Users
    I'm sorry to hear you were rushed to the ER! Hope everything is all right. :(

    Isn't it sort of exciting when you finally let your hair be its natural self and stop fighting with it? People (outside of this board, of course) look at you like you're crazy when you say these things...but setting my hair free has affected so many other areas of my life. Keep going strong! Maybe soon you'll discover you're a curly and not a wavy! Plus your hair is going to be very healthy, and that's the main goal.
    By the way I have to confess, the reason I don't have pics is because I'd have to borrow a digital camera, take them in secret, and figure out how to get them on the web. The reason for secrecy is that it seems vain and I'm embarassed to be vain because it is a venial sin. The old catechism dies hard!
    stubbornirishhair I know what you mean! I have my own digital camera, but I have no earthly clue how to get pictures onto the web. Not to mention that good ol' Catholic guilt. LOL
    2b/2c M iii
    Haven't straightened since 4/1/06!
    Proud to be a Product Minimalist (PM)
    PW: wavy
  • stubbornirishhairstubbornirishhair Posts: 118Registered Users
    I agree that this CG way of taking care of my hair is really liberating! I'm thrilled. My hair is so much healthier.
    Sorry also to hear you have been having health problems, henchperson.
    2B wavy thick hair
    Fia=2a M iii
    modified CG since 1/12/06
  • henchpersonhenchperson Posts: 67Registered Users
    "Rushed" is rather a misnomer. "Hustled" would be a better term. I sprained my ankle last week, saw a doctor, got told it wasn't broken, and that was the extent of the medical care he gave me. So I've been walking about on a severely sprained ankle for a week. And I called a friend of mine who's a massage therapist to talk to her about the way things were popping and moving and swelling and she did the Darth Vader Voice Of Doom and sent me to the ER. I didn't know they taught the Voice of Doom in massage therapist school, but apparently they do. So today, after a trip to the orthopedic specialist, I'm in a walking cast with a sort of mix of a ligament tear and the overstretching of everything on the outside of my ankle. Hooray. Or, you know. Not.

    Anyway - to make this a relevant post - after I washed it today (brown sugar/conditioner scrub because of the itchies from the shampoo, Suave Naturals Aloe conditioner as a "shampoo" and Aubrey Island Naturals as a conditioner, I realized I was have to going to pin my hair back now, while it was wet, or my doctor was going to think he was treating the Medusa for a sprained ankle. The CO washing has made me CURLY LIKE WOW.
    Not curly, but wavy. Learning to love it.
    Valiantly attempting to become a product minimalist.
  • henchpersonhenchperson Posts: 67Registered Users
    Well, crud.
    Here I am, looking forward to my Ouidad's order. People keep telling me how great it is, how fantastic.
    My UPS guy brings it today. I open the box.
    And then I read the ingredients.
    Wow, what a disappointment. 'cones, for one thing, in the conditioner AND the shampoo, plus harsh chemical cleansers in the shampoo. This stuff might be "volumizing," but it's not very nice to your hair.

    I put the bottles right back in the box and will ship them back to Ouidad tomorrow. Pity they don't post the ingredients of the line on the website.
    Not curly, but wavy. Learning to love it.
    Valiantly attempting to become a product minimalist.
  • stubbornirishhairstubbornirishhair Posts: 118Registered Users
    Somewhere on this board, probably in the general section, is a pretty good list of products with no sulfates, silicones or proteins. It was a little wrong in that I got the Trader Joe's Refresh, and it has a somewhat harsh sulfate in it called something 12-14 olefin sulfate, but we've been using it diluted with distilled water. Anyway, maybe you could do a search for that list.
    2B wavy thick hair
    Fia=2a M iii
    modified CG since 1/12/06
  • henchpersonhenchperson Posts: 67Registered Users
    I've got enough for the moment, I think. I just heard such great things about Ouidad that I wanted to try it.
    But not bad enough to put 'cones on my head (boy, that sounds weird).

    Today I got a box of essential oils, including lavender, so I should be able to make that lavender mist stuff. That is, when I'm allowed to stand up. Because right now, my left leg looks like this:
    cast03.jpg and I'm not really allowed to walk much.
    *sigh*

    Why can't we have titanium unbreakable bones like X-men? Huh? They have great hair, too.
    Not curly, but wavy. Learning to love it.
    Valiantly attempting to become a product minimalist.
  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users
    "Rushed" is rather a misnomer. "Hustled" would be a better term. I sprained my ankle last week, saw a doctor, got told it wasn't broken, and that was the extent of the medical care he gave me. So I've been walking about on a severely sprained ankle for a week. And I called a friend of mine who's a massage therapist to talk to her about the way things were popping and moving and swelling and she did the Darth Vader Voice Of Doom and sent me to the ER. I didn't know they taught the Voice of Doom in massage therapist school, but apparently they do. So today, after a trip to the orthopedic specialist, I'm in a walking cast with a sort of mix of a ligament tear and the overstretching of everything on the outside of my ankle. Hooray. Or, you know. Not.


    I'm sure you're finding out right about now exactly HOW much you need your ankles. I used to think ankle sprains and breaks were no-big-deal types of injuries, until it happened to ME, LOL.

    I broke my ankle very badly a few years ago...as bad as you can break it and have it still attached to leg. I had reconstructive surgery and had a bunch of plates/pins/screws put in (which are still in there). It was a VERY long, very painful recovery...8 weeks no-weight-bearing, then 2 years of rehab. At times, I wished they had just amputated my foot, as it would have been easier. It will never be the same as it was...but I can't complain, as I can walk normally now, and even run.

    ANYWAY...I do know how hard and frustrating it is to be laid up, especially if you're an active person. Get better soon.
  • henchpersonhenchperson Posts: 67Registered Users
    Aww, thanks.
    I'm no stranger to orthopedic injuries (not to TOTALLY hijack the thread or anything). I've had 12, mostly on my knee and hip, after a train/car accident in which the train rather clearly won. I was in the car.

    The thing that frustrates me the MOST is that I went to a doctor the day after I injured it, who x-rayed it, said "it's sprained" and told me to wear an ace bandage. And then I wind up in the ER and then at a specialist's office. I did what I was supposed to do! I went to the doctor! And apparently - it wasn't enough, because the doctor wasn't paying any attention to anything but whether my ankle was broken.
    My lawyer-husband has forbidden me from calling the original doctor up and making malpractice noises at him. He says it's mean. We're not going to sue, we're just going to let people know who he is and the kind of medical care he gives.

    Now to bring this back on topic, your sig says you use DevaCare. How do you like that? I'm tempted to buy some - I am SUCh a product junkie.
    Not curly, but wavy. Learning to love it.
    Valiantly attempting to become a product minimalist.
  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users
    The thing that frustrates me the MOST is that I went to a doctor the day after I injured it, who x-rayed it, said "it's sprained" and told me to wear an ace bandage. And then I wind up in the ER and then at a specialist's office. I did what I was supposed to do! I went to the doctor! And apparently - it wasn't enough, because the doctor wasn't paying any attention to anything but whether my ankle was broken.
    My lawyer-husband has forbidden me from calling the original doctor up and making malpractice noises at him. He says it's mean. We're not going to sue, we're just going to let people know who he is and the kind of medical care he gives.

    Now to bring this back on topic, your sig says you use DevaCare. How do you like that? I'm tempted to buy some - I am SUCh a product junkie.

    As a nurse, I can tell you that doctors make mistakes every single day. Call me jaded, but I take all doctorly-advice as personal opinion only, not as gospel, and then make my own decisions.

    I LOVE Deva products. I prefer the [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/DevaCurl-No-Poo-p-53.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=devacurl-devacurl-nopoo]DevaCURL No-Poo[/buylink] and One Conditioner, to the DevaCARE, but i need to use up what I have before I buy more of the DevaCURL stuff. The No-Poo gets my hair cleaner than any other conditioner-wash I've used.
  • henchpersonhenchperson Posts: 67Registered Users
    Once I'm out of my Aubrey, I'm going to try DevaCurl.
    Because CO washing has made my head kind of explode into waves. My husband said "You look a little like a dandelion." the other night. He meant it nicely, I assure you, it's just a little....out of control.
    Not curly, but wavy. Learning to love it.
    Valiantly attempting to become a product minimalist.
  • henchpersonhenchperson Posts: 67Registered Users
    I got my hair cut today, by Lena at what used to be the Arabesque Salon but is now the Lena Cyrus Salon. The place is so new that there isn't even a sign on the door yet.
    It was a really good experience. She told me that no, my hair is not actually curly. I have wavy hair. And my thick hair is actually just a lot of fine hair. Surprise!

    I was kind of hoping that behind my wavy hair were curls trying to break free, and apparently that's not the case. I also learned that wavy hair really does have different needs than curly hair, and that while she likes the Curly Girl system for actual curly girls, she thinks that much conditioner may weigh down someone's natural waves, especially if we use (as I was using) a heavy conditioner. But hey - she didn't think I was crazy for having read Curly Girl, or for considering going shampoo-free, and she's either read the book herself or had the system explained to her in detail, because she knew what I was talking about. Her advice to me was that I not do it, though, because of my hair type.
    I also found out that she thinks having me get a trim every six weeks when I'm growing my hair out is only useful for the stylist to make money. I go back in three months, when she says I'll have enough hair to actually do something with and get a better idea of my wave pattern. She said that in a month, I'm going to think she's crazy, because I'll be desperate for a haircut, but if I really want to grow it out, I have to let it grow and not keep trimming bits off. I assured her that I've invested in hairpins, headbands and barettes.
    FWIW, she only cut the back of my hair ( from the earlobes down) because that was length without shape that just made me look untidy, and she cut that wet. Then she dried everything with a diffuser and cut the wave pattern, which was kind of neat. All she did to the top was nip off a few split ends, and she says my hair looks very healthy.
    So I'm quite pleased by having found this stylist - via the referral system here, although one person really didn't like her, but hey, you can't get good recommendations from everyone. The salon she was at - Arabesque, on Sheffield - she's purchased from the owner and is calling it the Lana Cyrus Salon. I'll update the notes on her in the referral section.

    It was interesting to talk to a professional about the differences between wavy and curly and where the line is between wavy and curly, and how someone with hair my type may actually get less curl if we try to treat our hair like it's curly. The CO washing would have worked for a while for me, she said, and probably given me more curl, but it would have dulled out and gotten less curly as time went on, because of my hair type. Apparently, if I use a really gentle shampoo, I can wash my hair a few times a week if I need to without worrying about stripping anything out, and to be careful of using any conditioner that's too heavy because my thick hair is actually pretty fine. She had a line of hair products, but didn't even suggest I use or buy any of them, saying I probably had plenty if I've been experimenting with the best way to get the best results. She did say Aubrey conditioners tend to be very heavy and I might want to try something else (again with the fine wavy hair), even just to switch to something lighter for a week to see if there's a change. If there isn't, she says that I may be fine with Aubrey. And as I thought - now that I've stopped bleaching my hair, it's not dry, so using products made for dry hair will just weigh it down.

    I'll post pictures to my journal once my ankle gets over being pissed at me for leaving the house, even if I was on crutches. She spent a full hour with me, looking at my hair and showing me the growth pattern, the wave pattern, and what it would be doing if it were curly and not wavy. The actual haircut only took a few minutes, because I didn't need much hair cut off. But I'd recommend her to anyone in Chicago.
    Not curly, but wavy. Learning to love it.
    Valiantly attempting to become a product minimalist.
  • back2natureback2nature Posts: 37Registered Users
    Thank you so much for that in-depth review! It does sound like we have very similar hair afterall. Mine is definitely wavy not curly, and it is very thick in volume, but thin to medium in texture. So your stylist's advice can apply to me as well. Though, most of that, I've kind of realized on my own because I've been doing this for a year. But it was really great to have it confirmed by a professional! Thanks again. :D And I'm glad you had such a positive experience! For us wavies, those can be hard to come by, as I'm sure well know.

    P.S. Did Lena talk to you about styling techniques and/or product?
    2b/2c M iii
    Haven't straightened since 4/1/06!
    Proud to be a Product Minimalist (PM)
    PW: wavy
  • SnarlsSnarls Posts: 2,537Registered Users
    Whoo hoo! Congratulations on finding a great stylist!

    (so...back to ME now :D )
    You said you would recommend her to anyone in Chicago. I'm definitely a curly, not a wavy, and I have never ever had a good salon experience. I live in Madison, WI. I would be willing to go to Chicago for a good cut and styling advice...if the person really "got" my hair and could give me the help I need. Would you go so far as to recommend her to someone who would have to put in several hours driving time?

    I've never heard of a good curly stylist in town and I have lots of curly friends. We just kind of...cope.

    You've got me all excited now. I'm so glad for YOU that you got information about your hair from someone who can really analyze it and suggest styling and care methods suitable to YOU. And I hope your darn ankle gets over itself--remind it that it is support staff! key word being support :D
    formerly Castella
    (my dogs aren't snarly, my hair is)
  • stubbornirishhairstubbornirishhair Posts: 118Registered Users
    I'm so glad you found this great stylist who "gets" wavy hair! My hair is also similar to yours, probably medium thick strands but tons of them, and I know that I can over-condition if use something heavy. I use either the Suave Naturals or the Giovanni conditioners and both are light enough for me. I only shampoo once a week though and that seems to work well.
    I'm not so sure she's exactly right about the styling aspect of CG though, I think that method can work for wavies. Of course I never did much styling at all before I tried CG, so I don't really know anything different.
    Its reassuring to find a stylist who tells you not to come back for 3 months too!
    2B wavy thick hair
    Fia=2a M iii
    modified CG since 1/12/06
  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users
    I do agree with the stylist that the way to grow hair out is to leave it grow, rather than getting constant trims. I have grown out short cuts several times and would go much longer than even 3 months between trims.

    I disagree with her that wavies shouldn't use CG. My hair is 2C...coarse individual hairs, and lots of them, and I've had great success with going no-poo. My hair is getting wavier/curlier since I gave up shampoo completely, and it's shinier, not dull. My daughter is a thick straightie...fine hair and lots of them...and she has been shiny and clean using no-poo also. The trick with both of us is not to use too much conditioner. After washing with No-Poo, I only use conditioner on the ends, and I rinse it all out. My daughter doesn't need conditioner at all after using No-Poo. The No-Poo itself is enough of a conditioner for her. I won't go back to shampoo, no matter how many "professionals" tell me that I need to...because I've seen the dramatic improvement in my hair by giving up detergents.
  • henchpersonhenchperson Posts: 67Registered Users
    I think I was a little misunderstood with what the stylist said to me - it wasn't that the CG regime didn't work on wavies, it's that it wasn't really working with me. Which, you know, it wasn't. But she does seem to "get" the whole CO washing thing - and says hey, if it works for you, go for it. But my hair was getting visably (which I could see, when she pointed to it) weighed down by the conditioners I was using, and she said that the CG system just might not be right for me.
    However, she did say that if no-poo is what works for you, then more power to you for not having to invest in shampoo! Definitely not a product-pusher.
    Not curly, but wavy. Learning to love it.
    Valiantly attempting to become a product minimalist.
  • henchpersonhenchperson Posts: 67Registered Users
    P.S. Did Lena talk to you about styling techniques and/or product?

    She said that at the length I'm at right now - barely to my earlobes - the less product, the better. With us fine-wavies, the heavier gels can weigh down hair. So my routine of spraying in some of the Aubrey conditioner/detangler and ignoring it was approved of as perfectly acceptable. I told her that it seemed like my hair got straighter with the Aubrey gel, and she said that's kind of a heavy one, and I might try dilluting it and using it as a gel-mist. Like I said - she's not a product pusher, she figured if I already owned it, I should get some mileage out of it if I could.
    I didn't get any more styling tips, sorry, because my hair is so short that "styling" for me is a headband. Or maybe a barette.
    She did say that with some product and scrunching and a diffuser, I could have curls, but that I'd have to want to put the time into it, and I'd have to do heat styling. But everything she's told me is preliminary because, remember, barely any hair to work with right now.
    Not curly, but wavy. Learning to love it.
    Valiantly attempting to become a product minimalist.
  • henchpersonhenchperson Posts: 67Registered Users
    Castella wrote:
    You said you would recommend her to anyone in Chicago. I'm definitely a curly, not a wavy, and I have never ever had a good salon experience. I live in Madison, WI. I would be willing to go to Chicago for a good cut and styling advice...if the person really "got" my hair and could give me the help I need. Would you go so far as to recommend her to someone who would have to put in several hours driving time?

    That's a looooong drive to get your hair cut - but a friend of mine in Toronto has had so many bad experiences with haircuts there that she only gets her hair cut here in Chicago by a friend of ours. Of course, my Toronto friend works for a Chicago company that brings her here every few months for staff meetings and suchlike, but still.

    I liked her. That's all I can say. But someone who's a committed CG or doesn't like having a very opinionated hairdresser or having someone tell you (as she did to me) "bangs will make you look twelve - you have a perfectly nice forehead. no more cutting bangs, especially if you're going to be wavy." which I thought was hysterical, but someone else might be offended about.
    Aren't you fairly (I mean a less-mileage) close to Milwaukee? My husband and I have been there (okay, yes, our vacations are pathetic) and it seemed like a real "city." Maybe look into trying a Milwaukee stylist before driving to Chicago for a cut? Because that seems like a big hike for a haircut.
    Then again, I just had someone recently sleep overnight on my couch driving in from Green Bay one afternoon to see Brokeback Mountain that night and drive home the next morning.
    I did a lot of pre-screening before I chose Lana. There was a lot of poking around on the references on this site, then doing a search on some other "rating" sites like yelp.com and metromix to see if there were any other reviews of the same people. And one of Lana's reviews on this site wasn't positive at all. So it wasn't a matter of just stumbling onto her - I did make phone calls to stylists and talk to them and decide with most that they weren't people I wanted anywhere near my hair with scissors. Lana's salon is just getting off the ground, so she was a little late in calling me back, but she was really willing to talk about curls and how she cuts them and that she's got long curly hair herself that she's had people cut badly in the past. She cuts people with straight hair, too. And she's not cheap - $60 for a haircut may be out of some people's price range, but I know the Chicago market for hairstyling can get a little out of control. One stylist wanted to charge me $125 for the initial cut and consultation - he got dropped from my list pretty quick. But before I drove to Chicago, no matter how much I like my stylist (and I've only seen her once, remember), I'd do some more investigation of people closer to home. Even if it's just calling up salons and asking if they've got someone who specializes in curly hair.
    Not curly, but wavy. Learning to love it.
    Valiantly attempting to become a product minimalist.
  • velvet pawsvelvet paws Posts: 1,250Registered Users
    Henchperson - how long did you try CG? It can take a while for your hair to adjust (I think it took me six weeks), and the conditioner you use to co wash can make a huge difference. I went to a Deva cut and color class last week and one of the things Lorraine Massey said is that when you are trying CG, a single shampoo can set you back for weeks, especially in the beginning.

    When I first started CG a few years ago, I tried using Suave naturals coconut as my washing conditioner. It was way too heavy - combine that with my scalp freaking out and greasiness, my hair looked like total crap. For whatever reason (stubbornness, probably), I was determined to stick with it. I did the lemon-aid washes and switched my washing conditioners around until I found something that worked for me (unfortunately, it was $12 No Poo vs. $1.99 Suave lol). I had about six months where I strayed from CG (I had been pregnant and my hair flipped out on me), but I'm back on the wagon again and my hair is happy (and my hair responds well enough to CG now that I can use cheapy Suave conditioners to co wash if I want to) ;)

    My might not be all that different from yours once you get some more length - My hair is fine, but there's a ton of it. When it's short, it doesn't curl at all, just waves. Now that I've got longer hair, it is a mixture of very loose spirals, S waves and some classic tighter 3A type curls underneath. I definitely get more curl formation as I get more length. I've got a "character-building" side of my head too, with one side being more wavy and one side being more curly. CG has really brought out the curls and changed the whole texture of my hair. It's worth sticking it out for a few more weeks just to see if you can get it work for you. Maybe switch your products around. You can always do something else if it doesn't.

    It's awesome that you found a stylist you trust and got good results from. I'm scared to ever move away from here because I don't know what I'd do without being able to get to the mothership for an appointment ;)
    3A / 2B / 2C wavicelli

    .png

    .png
  • henchpersonhenchperson Posts: 67Registered Users
    velvet paws, I didn't actually try the "actual" CG system for that long - the hair types in the book were so radically different than mine that "wavy" was the closest I could find, and shampoo was okay for a "wavy."
    Now I'm thinking that I need to go back to trying just conditioner, because my scalp is back to being itchy. And instead of doing what I used to do (rubbing the scalp with oils, then having to shampoo them out the next morning), it might be a better idea to just ditch the shampoo again. Not to mention that those waves I had seem to disappeared.
    I realize now that was using incorrect conditioners. My assumption was that if it was on the "list" of conditioners that fit with the CG system, it didn't matter which ones I used. A conditioner was a conditioner, right? Except not, apparently, since Suave Naturals was the conditioner I was using to wash with, and I was using the Aubrey Island Naturals for conditioning. And since the book said a gentle shampoo was okay every so often, I used the California Baby teatree/lavender shampoo on my roots and scalp when I felt like it was needed. Now I've learned that both the Suave and the Aubrey are really heavy conditioners that were making my hair all weighed down, which is probably why the stylist said that CG didn't really seem to be working for me. It's possible that it wasn't CG that wasn't working, it was just those conditioners. Not to mention that the products I was using were also too heavy for my hair, because as I said, I persisted in thinking I had thick hair when what I have is a lot of fine hair.
    It's frustrating. I simply don't have enough hair to see any consistent results, and there's no way to suddenly grow more. The top of my hair is just long enough to tuck behind my ears. Most of the time it doesn't seem to matter whether my hair is wavy, straight, or curly, because it's going to end up held back by a bandana or headband or pinned up in barettes to get it out of my face. I may try following the system and actually order the Deva products to give them a try. Until this stylist visit, I'd been under the impression that I needed certain kinds of products (thick, dry hair) and now I've learned that I've got entirely different needs (fine, normal hair). So I found a friend who actuallyhas thick, dry hair and gave her most of my hair products. Along with a copy of CG, by the way. She's thrilled, and I suddenly have a bunch of space in the cabinet right outside my bathroom. She says she has curls instead of waves for the first time since she was about five years old.
    I figured a gentle shampoo a few times a week and a light conditioner should keep my hair in fairly good shape until it's long enough to try to encourage the curl. Between the length and the fact that I can't leave the house (ankle tendon damage) to go shopping, it just seemed a lot easier to get into the CG system gradually, rather than abruptly switching. I figured if I used up the rest of my shampoo slowly and don't buy more, that's one way to go CO.
    I've been back to every-other-day shampooing for not even a full week and wow, big difference. My scalp is itchy and my hair is nearly straight. Now my problem is which conditioners do I use? Do I just bite the bullet and order the Deva stuff - which is really kind of expensive - or do I futz around some more with the drugstore conditioners? I'm leaning towards the Deva products, because at least now I know what type of hair I have, so I can pick the right products.

    So now I've found a stylist....but I'm back to being frustrated, this time because of product confusion. Wah!

    :lol:
    Not curly, but wavy. Learning to love it.
    Valiantly attempting to become a product minimalist.
«1