Hitting....

deedlesdeedles Posts: 2,467Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
Liam has now fully "up to his ears" in the "terrible 2's" (where'd my sweet baby go?)

anyway, when I tell him no or take something away from him or I do something he doesn't like he starts to scream "no, mommy, no..." and wacks me on the arm or leg...

I have tried not to spank back because they say that's counterproductive...

I hold his arms down at his sides and get in his face and firmly tell him no...

I also have realized that if I give him "time out" it will calm him down but he doesn't get the point of it )

Tell me I am not the only mom going through this..

Do you have any tips that you have tried that have worked!
Liam: 6 years old
Colin: 3 years old
Location: Williamsburg, Virginia
Member Since: August 2000

Comments

  • PixieCurlPixieCurl Posts: 5,656Registered Users
    Sol's still a bit younger than Liam, so I may be talking out of my @$$, but I think I would keep doing what you're doing, but maybe instead of a time-out, you could walk into another room and say something like "I won't let you hit me, so I'm going into another room until you calm down."
    Faith, 3Aish redhead
    Mama to two wild superheroes and a curly-headed baby boy :love5:
  • LoloDSMLoloDSM Posts: 3,778Registered Users
    We got our technique from DD's daycare:

    When she hits, we say to her "We don't hit. Nice touches." and then stroke her face. Sometimes she looks away or tries to be cute by smiling, but we then use a finger to turn her chin to face us and say it again. She also gets a time out in the pack n' play when she hits. I've read that one minute for each year is appropriate.

    She was smacking me this morning, so I can empathize. It's hard to be patient when they're acting like that. Good luck!
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  • mad scientistmad scientist Posts: 3,530Registered Users
    KARAN WAS A BIG TIME HITTER. Yes, that statement deserved all caps. It was miserable time.

    So the good news - its a phase, they grow out of it. Karan hit from 1.5 to 2 and then just stopped. Mainly because he started talking and could communicate better. And he developed some impulse control.

    We did all the same things as you do - "gentle touch", making a big drama of "Ouch, that hurt!! I don't want to play with you anymore" etc... When he was still in his crib, he would get dropped in there.

    And of course we'd watch him like a hawk when he played with other kids (although he didn't hit kids - he mainly hit me and DH)

    Timeouts only started working with him after 2.5 years. If he ever does hit now, he goes straight to time out.
  • deezee02deezee02 Posts: 1,509Registered Users
    we have figured that timeouts did not work well for us. the ONLY thing that works is to stop what you are doing and put him down/stop playing.

    Much of stevens hitting comes from frustration of not being able to communicate...I have found that if I work with him to figure out what he needs/wants, the hitting stops.
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  • deedlesdeedles Posts: 2,467Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Thanks Ladies.. keep em coming!
    Liam: 6 years old
    Colin: 3 years old
    Location: Williamsburg, Virginia
    Member Since: August 2000
  • rainshowerrainshower Posts: 4,420Registered Users
    deedles wrote: »
    Liam has now fully "up to his ears" in the "terrible 2's" (where'd my sweet baby go?)

    anyway, when I tell him no or take something away from him or I do something he doesn't like he starts to scream "no, mommy, no..." and wacks me on the arm or leg...

    I have tried not to spank back because they say that's counterproductive...

    I hold his arms down at his sides and get in his face and firmly tell him no...

    I also have realized that if I give him "time out" it will calm him down but he doesn't get the point of it )

    Tell me I am not the only mom going through this..

    Do you have any tips that you have tried that have worked!

    we grabbed his hands, said "NO hitting!" if he persisted, we'd repeat it and also sit him in "the yellow chair" or take away a toy that he may have been playing with. after a couple of minutes, we'd say again, "do not hit." i'd also take his hand and make him touch softly where he hit me.

    he didn't get it at first, but he eventually got it.

    and do not let him hit others and not admonish him. nor should you let others tell you "that's ok, he's just a baby." you've got to be consistent, no matter who he's lashing out at.
    "Dogs stink too, but I like dog stink." ~ rileyb
  • shellibeanshellibean Posts: 4,500Registered Users
    How do all of you "Time Out" enforcers do it? Like literally- how? I have tried to put River in time out and he instantly gets up and runs of. I'm not sure he "gets" that he is supposed to stay there until I say. I spend the whole time physically holding him in time-out.
    A closed mind is a wonderful thing to lose.

    "...you could have a turd on your head and no one would notice."~Subbrock

    "I had an imaginary puppy, but my grandpa ate him."~Bailey
  • sarah42sarah42 Posts: 4,034Registered Users
    shellibean wrote: »
    How do all of you "Time Out" enforcers do it? Like literally- how? I have tried to put River in time out and he instantly gets up and runs of. I'm not sure he "gets" that he is supposed to stay there until I say. I spend the whole time physically holding him in time-out.

    We put him in his room and close the door for time-out. That's also what is recommended in the book 1-2-3 Magic. Otherwise, he would do exactly what River does. I think as children get older they will understand more and be able to stay in a chair or whatever, but we're not to that point yet.
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  • geekygeeky Posts: 4,995Registered Users
    In my experience the "gentle touch" thing works with young toddlers who hit out of enthusiasm or experimentation. When they are two they hit out of anger and frustration and gentle touch does not address the anger.
    I didn't do traditional time out but something similar to deezee. When Ben hit I would say somehting simple like "You are mad at me but you may not hit me. Hitting hurts" and I would leave the room and tell him "I will be in the living room. When you are ready to be gentle you can come and we will play more" or whatever. We also started doing positive time outs, saying "You are upset. You need to go into your room and come out when you feel better" when he would start to get upset but before it came to hitting or a full meltdown. It worked pretty well. He even put himself in time out like that a few times.
    To Trenell, MizKerri and geeky:
    I pray none of you ever has to live in a communist state.

    Geeky is my hero. She's the true badass. The badass who doesn't even need to be a badass. There aren't enough O's in cool to describe her.
  • LoloDSMLoloDSM Posts: 3,778Registered Users
    We have a pack n' pack set up that is only for time out. We put her in it, set a timer, and leave the room. She would never sit in a chair if she was upset.
    Loose botticelli curls and waves
    No silicones/no sulfates since March 2008
  • subbrocksubbrock Posts: 8,212Registered Users
    LoloDSM wrote: »
    We got our technique from DD's daycare:

    When she hits, we say to her "We don't hit. Nice touches." and then stroke her face. Sometimes she looks away or tries to be cute by smiling, but we then use a finger to turn her chin to face us and say it again. She also gets a time out in the pack n' play when she hits. I've read that one minute for each year is appropriate.

    She was smacking me this morning, so I can empathize. It's hard to be patient when they're acting like that. Good luck!

    when majerle was in her hitting people phase thats what i did. as soon as she hit i would tell her that we dont hit and that we have to be gentle and then stroke her arm to show her what i meant by gentle.
    she has quite the temper so now she doesnt hit people if something doesnt go her way. but she will hit inanimate objects. the nearest table, a toy, etc. i ignore it and dont give her any reaction at all.


    as far as time out goes, the first few times i gave her a time out, i had to keep sitting her down and telling her that she had to sit because she was in timeout. i didnt hold her down or anything because i knew that would make her even more mad. but the second she stood up and tried to scurry away i would sit her back down. we dont have a special timeout room or chair or anything but the fact that she has to sit down for 1 minute always drives the point home.
  • shellibeanshellibean Posts: 4,500Registered Users
    Yeah, I tried to have the hallway as "time out". I sat him down. He ran off. I caught him and sat him down again.... Repeat until it was eventually just a wrestling match of me holding a wiggling, screaming kid.
    A closed mind is a wonderful thing to lose.

    "...you could have a turd on your head and no one would notice."~Subbrock

    "I had an imaginary puppy, but my grandpa ate him."~Bailey
  • deezee02deezee02 Posts: 1,509Registered Users
    I have found time outs at this younge of an age to be ineffective...it is more stressful on the parent to keep them their, and I am not quite sure what they get out of it.
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  • rainshowerrainshower Posts: 4,420Registered Users
    deezee02 wrote: »
    I have found time outs at this younge of an age to be ineffective...it is more stressful on the parent to keep them their, and I am not quite sure what they get out of it.

    time out for toddlers this age should only last about a minute. the whole point is that they are being immediately taken away from whatever bad activity they were engaged in and made to sit in one spot: a chair, a place on the floor, step, whatever.

    when it's consistently done and when parents are patient and clear-headed when they implement it, it can be quite effective.

    toddlers do get something out of it because they learn to correlate their unfavorable actions with sitting in time out and can begin to check themselves. also, right after time out is over, parents have to explain again the bad behavior that they do not like and if possible make the child correct that behavior.

    for example, if our son threw his toys, we'd tell him to stop and that he could hurt someone or break something. if he did it again, we'd put him in the yellow chair for a minute. a minute is as long as time out needs to last for a 2 year old. he'd cry and whine and fuss. then we'd ask him if he was ready to getup and put his toys away? of course he'd say yes because he wants to get up. then we'd escort him to the toys that were still strewn across the floor so that he could put them away himself, or help him if there were lots of toys that would take too long for him to clean up. but the point is that he'd play a role in correcting the effect of his unfavorable behavior.

    and we'd have to be consistent. because the first time you let him throw toys and ignore it, you'd be sending mixed messages. and that wouldn't be fair.
    "Dogs stink too, but I like dog stink." ~ rileyb
  • curly_keltiecurly_keltie Posts: 791Registered Users
    shellibean wrote: »
    How do all of you "Time Out" enforcers do it? Like literally- how? I have tried to put River in time out and he instantly gets up and runs of. I'm not sure he "gets" that he is supposed to stay there until I say. I spend the whole time physically holding him in time-out.

    You just keep putting them back in the time out spot and they only come out of time out once they have stayed for the allotted time. Even if it takes 100 times - you cannot let them win. I went through this with DS - and now once I put him in time out, he stays.

    To the original poster - when DS hits me out of anger or frustration, I get down to his level and tell him "No hitting" and tell him if he hits again he gets a time out. I'm also working on getting him to use words. Telling him that instead of hitting he should say "I'm mad" and I have him say that back to me.
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  • deezee02deezee02 Posts: 1,509Registered Users
    rainshower wrote: »
    deezee02 wrote: »
    I have found time outs at this younge of an age to be ineffective...it is more stressful on the parent to keep them their, and I am not quite sure what they get out of it.

    time out for toddlers this age should only last about a minute. the whole point is that they are being immediately taken away from whatever bad activity they were engaged in and made to sit in one spot: a chair, a place on the floor, step, whatever.

    when it's consistently done and when parents are patient and clear-headed when they implement it, it can be quite effective.

    toddlers do get something out of it because they learn to correlate their unfavorable actions with sitting in time out and can begin to check themselves. also, right after time out is over, parents have to explain again the bad behavior that they do not like and if possible make the child correct that behavior.

    for example, if our son threw his toys, we'd tell him to stop and that he could hurt someone or break something. if he did it again, we'd put him in the yellow chair for a minute. a minute is as long as time out needs to last for a 2 year old. he'd cry and whine and fuss. then we'd ask him if he was ready to getup and put his toys away? of course he'd say yes because he wants to get up. then we'd escort him to the toys that were still strewn across the floor so that he could put them away himself, or help him if there were lots of toys that would take too long for him to clean up. but the point is that he'd play a role in correcting the effect of his unfavorable behavior.

    and we'd have to be consistent. because the first time you let him throw toys and ignore it, you'd be sending mixed messages. and that wouldn't be fair.


    See for us, we have found that redirection still works best for us. We were doing one min. time-outs, but they were not effective at all...we spent more time and energy putting him back.

    I found for us, we remove him from the situation. For example, if he is throwing toys, we explain to him that he cannot do that. If he does not listen, we take that toy away and move on to something else.

    One method that I learned from another site that I LOVE is GOYBP

    The big things that I liked when reading was their thoughts on time outs...

    (1) Time Out is typically thrown at a child in the absence of actual teaching. A child who seems to need a Time Out more likely needs some instruction, guidance, role playing or re-direction.

    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif](2) Time Out usually involves isolation, causing a child to experience stress and discomfort. Isolation teaches nothing of value and does not impart knowledge or experience.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif](3) Time Out is rarely related to the issue of concern, and a child is unable to relate the discipline to the event that precipitated it.[/FONT]

    We have started following the "time in" philosophy from the site also. When I see Steven starting to have a breakdown, I have him pick out a book and we sit and read and cuddle for a while.
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  • subbrocksubbrock Posts: 8,212Registered Users
    deezee02 wrote: »
    The big things that I liked when reading was their thoughts on time outs...

    (1) Time Out is typically thrown at a child in the absence of actual teaching. A child who seems to need a Time Out more likely needs some instruction, guidance, role playing or re-direction.

    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif](2) Time Out usually involves isolation, causing a child to experience stress and discomfort. Isolation teaches nothing of value and does not impart knowledge or experience. [/FONT]

    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif](3) Time Out is rarely related to the issue of concern, and a child is unable to relate the discipline to the event that precipitated it.[/FONT]

    We have started following the "time in" philosophy from the site also. When I see Steven starting to have a breakdown, I have him pick out a book and we sit and read and cuddle for a while.

    maybe im not understanding you right, but why did you like these parts?
  • deezee02deezee02 Posts: 1,509Registered Users
    subbrock wrote: »
    deezee02 wrote: »
    The big things that I liked when reading was their thoughts on time outs...

    (1) Time Out is typically thrown at a child in the absence of actual teaching. A child who seems to need a Time Out more likely needs some instruction, guidance, role playing or re-direction.

    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif](2) Time Out usually involves isolation, causing a child to experience stress and discomfort. Isolation teaches nothing of value and does not impart knowledge or experience. [/FONT]

    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif](3) Time Out is rarely related to the issue of concern, and a child is unable to relate the discipline to the event that precipitated it.[/FONT]

    We have started following the "time in" philosophy from the site also. When I see Steven starting to have a breakdown, I have him pick out a book and we sit and read and cuddle for a while.

    maybe im not understanding you right, but why did you like these parts?

    Children at that age (2 year olds) do not have the impulse control, that many parents expect them to have. I believe that many times, parents put their children in time-outs at such a younge age, due to unrealistic expectations of what the child can and cannot due.

    I also believe that time outs are used in the absence of actually parenting a child.

    For example, Steven is touching the TV, we ask him not to, if he continues, I give him a new toy to play with, if it still continues, I get up and sit between him and the TV and discract him with a new game.

    Do really believe that time-outs cause unnessisary stress on the parents and children, it seems like a quick fix, that many times does not relate to the issue at hand
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  • shellibeanshellibean Posts: 4,500Registered Users
    Well, I do believe that he understands some things and has control over some things he shouldn't do but does anyway. And, aren't I supposed to TEACH him impulse control? After he does whatever a few times and I re-direct/distract him and he keeps on after I tell him, "No _____ing, I them tell him, I know you WANT to do _______, but you may NOT b/c __________. If you do it again, I am going to ___________. Then, I follow through & the next time he does it, he goes to time out. (But, liek I said, getting him IN TO time out is hard. I mean, I sit him down in the spot and he doesn't even get fully seated before he is running off. Like, i can't even get him to stay there long enough to count. Usually, I end up sitting in time out wrestling him while I count to 60 outloud. Them I tell him to please mind me and we hug. Then go play. But yeah, he is smart- he knows thigns he isn't allowed to do. I have seen him look around to see if anyone is watching and then sneaking over to the dishwasher to press buttons. All I have to do is look at him and he will point to the dishwasher , shake his head and say,"no-no." Hee hee!
    A closed mind is a wonderful thing to lose.

    "...you could have a turd on your head and no one would notice."~Subbrock

    "I had an imaginary puppy, but my grandpa ate him."~Bailey
  • geekygeeky Posts: 4,995Registered Users
    I'm with deezee. Impulse control is definintely something that should be taught, but it is also something that is developmentally linked. You can tell an 18 month old "No don't do that" and he may understand it on some level, but actually being able to obey when he really really really wants to do it is beyond his developmental capacities. Being smart and knowing what is not allowed has nothing to do with the capacity to control oneself.
    I am 37, I know damn well what is right and what is wrong, what is good for me and what is bad for me, and I still do the wrong thing sometimes (yeah, I am talking about you, German chocolate cake), so why should I have higher expectations for a toddler?
    To Trenell, MizKerri and geeky:
    I pray none of you ever has to live in a communist state.

    Geeky is my hero. She's the true badass. The badass who doesn't even need to be a badass. There aren't enough O's in cool to describe her.
  • deezee02deezee02 Posts: 1,509Registered Users
    "No _____ing, I them tell him, I know you WANT to do _______, but you may NOT b/c __________. If you do it again, I am going to ___________.

    This seems like WAY to much detail to get into with an 18 month old. I like to keep things really simple, Just a "no" and a redirect. yes, I redirection takes a lot of time and energy sometimes.
    Today for example, DH and I were getting our room ready for our new mattress...Steven wanted to "help" but we wanted to make sure he did not get hurt. Every time he came in, I just asked him to do something else... "can you go get mommy something square" and we had about 5-10 min's of him looking for something square. Then I would move on to a new shape or color.
    Does he have his own kitchen toys? I have a few of my old cooking bowls and stuff for Steven, when he wants to be in the kitchen with me, I grab those out to distract him...kitchen time is the only time he gets those.
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  • mad scientistmad scientist Posts: 3,530Registered Users
    We are still talking about 18 month olds, right? We didn't use time outs back then. To me time outs should be "think about what you've done". 18 months old aren't really ready for that kind of introspection, in my experience.

    Now with my 3 year old, there is definitely room for "time outs" and "time ins" in our arsenal of discipline strategies. A time out tells my son that "Your behaviour is not acceptable. Think about what you did and when you are ready to behave then come back and join us". I don't use a timer. DS can come back whenever he's cooled down. We use it for anti-social behaviour - hitting, talking back, yelling etc...

    But I don't use time-outs if I know that the behavior is brought on by tiredness, hunger etc... Then we use the "time-in". He's a bit old to be redirected (sometimes it still works), but I will usually declare "snack time" or "bedtime" and move him away to a quiet area. I know in theory even if something is bothering him, he should know not to hit/yell etc... but that's where I think that's where we reach the limit of his 3-yo impulse control. I can be a b**** when I'm tired and hungry.
  • subbrocksubbrock Posts: 8,212Registered Users
    deezee02 wrote: »
    subbrock wrote: »
    deezee02 wrote: »
    The big things that I liked when reading was their thoughts on time outs...

    (1) Time Out is typically thrown at a child in the absence of actual teaching. A child who seems to need a Time Out more likely needs some instruction, guidance, role playing or re-direction.

    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif](2) Time Out usually involves isolation, causing a child to experience stress and discomfort. Isolation teaches nothing of value and does not impart knowledge or experience. [/FONT]

    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif](3) Time Out is rarely related to the issue of concern, and a child is unable to relate the discipline to the event that precipitated it.[/FONT]

    We have started following the "time in" philosophy from the site also. When I see Steven starting to have a breakdown, I have him pick out a book and we sit and read and cuddle for a while.

    maybe im not understanding you right, but why did you like these parts?

    Children at that age (2 year olds) do not have the impulse control, that many parents expect them to have. I believe that many times, parents put their children in time-outs at such a younge age, due to unrealistic expectations of what the child can and cannot due.

    I also believe that time outs are used in the absence of actually parenting a child.

    For example, Steven is touching the TV, we ask him not to, if he continues, I give him a new toy to play with, if it still continues, I get up and sit between him and the TV and discract him with a new game.

    Do really believe that time-outs cause unnessisary stress on the parents and children, it seems like a quick fix, that many times does not relate to the issue at hand

    oh i see. my daughter has impulse control. shes 19 months and i was shocked and surprised to first see her exhibit her impulse control earlier this summer. i even posted about it when we were having a discussion about how much fun fake food was.
    plenty of times ive seen her start to do something she knows shes not supposed to do and then she'll check herself (she shakes her head "no") and will stop dead in her tracks. she does this when she doesnt realize im watching.
  • curly_keltiecurly_keltie Posts: 791Registered Users
    We use it for anti-social behaviour - hitting, talking back, yelling etc...

    I only use time-outs for anti-social behaviour as well, and they've been effective for DS. He gets a 2 minute time out, comes to me and says why he was in time out (kind of - he says 'no hitting' or 'no pushing') then he says sorry and gives a hug and a kiss to the person he's commited the offence against.

    If he's just getting in the way when I'm trying to do something - I either try and figure out a way to involve him or distract him with a "mission" (like a previous poster sending her son to find something shaped like a square)
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  • CGNYCCGNYC Posts: 4,938Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    oh i see. my daughter has impulse control. shes 19 months and i was shocked and surprised to first see her exhibit her impulse control earlier this summer. i even posted about it when we were having a discussion about how much fun fake food was.
    plenty of times ive seen her start to do something she knows shes not supposed to do and then she'll check herself (she shakes her head "no") and will stop dead in her tracks. she does this when she doesnt realize im watching.

    Don't be shocked when that goes away for a while or when you tell her to stop or don't or go get and she balks. It's just going to happen sooner or later. I've seen my daughter do the same thing and for the most part, she listens pretty well but she still (at nearly three) has to be reminded about some things over and over and over.

    I've seen and heard so many people complain that their child "understands no" and "shakes her head no and stops" and then suddenly isn't doing that anymore. It's just a thing they go through.
  • Brown_Eyed_GirlBrown_Eyed_Girl Posts: 1,353Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Deezee, what site did those points about time-outs come from? I'd like to explore those ideas a little more for future reference.

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