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Obama's Birth Certificate

CottonCandyCurlsCottonCandyCurls Posts: 344Registered Users
I'm sure I'll get flamed for bringing it up.

But many of you may or may not be aware that there have been 16+ lawsuits filed against Obama to produce his vaulted birth certificate. The lawsuits have been piling up since the primaries.

Instead of producing the vaulted long form original at the cost of $10, Obama and the DNC have hired 3 law firms and spent around $1 million to dismiss these cases. He could make all of them look like fools if there is no problem with his records but instead his evasions look suspect.

Three of these lawsuits are on the docket for the Supreme Court. Tomorrow the justices will conference on Leo C. Donofrio vs. Nina Wells, NJ Secretary of State.

The 2008 election continues to be distrurbing and entertaining to say the least.
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Comments

  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users
    Oh, bullsh1t. You've been listening to Faux News again. Obama produced his birth certificate, long ago. That doesn't stop haters from bringing frivolous lawsuits though. Some people REALLY don't like black guys.
  • Myradella3Myradella3 Posts: 2,481Registered Users
    This has been floating around the Internet for over a year. While the RNC might have been too stupid do make it a public issue, no way the Clintons would have let this slip by had it had any real credibility. Even if he was born overseas, his mother's citizenship gave him citizenship.

    Please note that I'm not flaming you, I just don't think this has any legs. But it will be fun to see how many people think it does.
  • curlyjenn10curlyjenn10 Posts: 2,034Registered Users
    Myradella3 wrote: »
    This has been floating around the Internet for over a year. While the RNC might have been too stupid do make it a public issue, no way the Clintons would have let this slip by had it had any real credibility. Even if he was born overseas, his mother's citizenship gave him citizenship.

    Please note that I'm not flaming you, I just don't think this has any legs. But it will be fun to see how many people think it does.

    That's what I was going to say. I thought that was a widely known fact? Guess not (no offense to the OP).
  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users
    Myradella3 wrote: »
    no way the Clintons would have let this slip by had it had any real credibility.


    That's the truth. Nobody wanted the presidency more than Hillary. The Clintons dug and dug and dug for dirt, and the best they could come up with was the slight connection with Bill Ayers. If Obama was born out of the country, they would have found it.
  • CottonCandyCurlsCottonCandyCurls Posts: 344Registered Users
    Oh, bullsh1t. You've been listening to Faux News again. Obama produced his birth certificate, long ago. That doesn't stop haters from bringing frivolous lawsuits though. Some people REALLY don't like black guys.

    No this is not from fox news. So you can stop with the assumptions, hysterics and crude name calling. This actually has been a low lying story that has been avoided by the left and right news media. It is only getting mentions in the press now because there are several supreme court cases up.

    He produced a certification of live birth which is different from the document being asked for. I'm black and I have no problem with black people. But I do find it curious that he's spending so much money to avoid showing the original long form document when "natural born citizen" is a constitutional requirement.

    The Hawaii officials have also used vague legalese language when talking about his birth certificate. Again if it's nothing to see why not show it and put this to rest. Let all the people asking for it look like loons and gain some sympathy and gravitas.

    Here's a similar scenario.
    Imagine I have a slate of candidates for a job at Whitehouse Inc. Mr. Obama passes the interview and impress the committee. Then I ask him for his social security card for proof of residency to meet work requirements. He delays and delays. He left it at his grandma's house, oh he forgot to bring it in last Tuesday. I grow frustrated and tell him I can't give him the job without a proper social. Then puts a digital scan of it on his blog and sends me the link. I say that's not enough, so he decides to sue me because of course he's an American who can work at my company. I'm just an angry racist keeping him from a good job because I asked for something required for the job. Yeah that makes a hell of a lot of sense redcatwaves. You win...not.
  • SuburbanbushbabeSuburbanbushbabe Posts: 15,402Registered Users
    Snopes

    It would be a much more stimulating discussion if posters could post debatable facts that are true. I realize true and fact and redundant, but it seems to be needed here.
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  • afrosheenqueenafrosheenqueen Posts: 5,400Registered Users
    I read about this in my local paper. One of the people suing is a former lawyer in the North East somewhere I think. It is amazing the level of hatred this presidential election uncovered from seemingly normal folks.
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  • TrenellTrenell Posts: 3,562Registered Users
    Myradella3 wrote: »
    This has been floating around the Internet for over a year. While the RNC might have been too stupid do make it a public issue, no way the Clintons would have let this slip by had it had any real credibility. Even if he was born overseas, his mother's citizenship gave him citizenship.

    Please note that I'm not flaming you, I just don't think this has any legs. But it will be fun to see how many people think it does.

    That's what I was going to say. I thought that was a widely known fact? Guess not (no offense to the OP).

    Me, too. I was born in Germany. My parents are American. I didn't have to get "my papers" I was automatic.
  • CottonCandyCurlsCottonCandyCurls Posts: 344Registered Users
    Myradella3 wrote: »
    This has been floating around the Internet for over a year. While the RNC might have been too stupid do make it a public issue, no way the Clintons would have let this slip by had it had any real credibility. Even if he was born overseas, his mother's citizenship gave him citizenship.

    Please note that I'm not flaming you, I just don't think this has any legs. But it will be fun to see how many people think it does.

    I understand what your saying but the problem is the DNC joined in the dismissal of these lawsuits. They have not been impartial in their behavior whether it is the unusual act of moving their headquarters to Chicago. Or the redistribution of delegates from other candidates to Obama. So while the Clintons might have tried to use it, assuming it's true, remember she avoided more strategies then one. Ask Mark Penn. And she was cocky enough to think she would have glided through the election process, hence her avoiding advice from many political consultants on caucus strategy among other things.

    And I'm afraid that you are incorrect that if he was born overseas he would have natural born citizenship. Those are the key words: natural born.
  • CottonCandyCurlsCottonCandyCurls Posts: 344Registered Users
    Snopes

    It would be a much more stimulating discussion if posters could post debatable facts that are true. I realize true and fact and redundant, but it seems to be needed here.

    I'm sorry but Snopes is not an authority on this issue they are neither experts in constitutional law nor are they investigative reporters. I have been to that website before and have found some of their "debunking" incorrect. They are like Wikipedia, take with grains of salt.
  • TrenellTrenell Posts: 3,562Registered Users
    And I'm afraid that you are incorrect that if he was born overseas he would have natural born citizenship. Those are the key words: natural born.

    Natural born means you were born a citizen. You didn't become a citizen through naturalization. I think it's about possible loyality issues.
  • sew and sewsew and sew Posts: 3,443Registered Users
    Yeah I started to follow that a while ago, and as fringe/lunatic as it may sound, there seems to be area for some questions. It's not because of his skin color either, and I'm actually really glad that you're proving that CottonCandyCurls. It's hard for me, being a white girl, to say the reason for entertaining this isn't about race. Guess it also helps that Alan Keyes, who has a PhD. in Constitutional law is willing to say there's reason for wanting answers.

    John McCain's citizenship was also called into question since he was born in the Panama Canal Zone, and he released all necessary information. From a NYT article:
    Mr. McCain’s citizenship was established by statutes covering the offspring of Americans abroad and laws specific to the Canal Zone as Congress realized that Americans would be living and working in the area for extended periods. But whether he qualifies as natural-born has been a topic of Internet buzz for months, with some declaring him ineligible while others assert that he meets all the basic constitutional qualifications — a natural-born citizen at least 35 years of age with 14 years of residence.
    The best material in Obama's favor is an announcement of his birth placed in the Honolulu paper by his grandparents nine days after his birth date. That's not proof, but if it's a valid report which it seems to be, and he wasn't born here, it would mean that his family took steps early on to ensure he would be considered an American citizen. Hawaii state law actually allows for multiple birth certificates to come about in the context of adoption taking place. It's a bit convoluted but it's possible for an individual to actually have more than one certificate of birth from the state of Hawaii. That's one of many caveats about this. Based off that Berg (the Philly lawyer) and others contend that there may be differences between records, casting all the records into question, and what's been shown is not an answer in of itself. As mentioned all this fuss begs the question of why the simplest solution-releasing the information, hasn't been done.
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  • CottonCandyCurlsCottonCandyCurls Posts: 344Registered Users
    Trenell wrote: »
    And I'm afraid that you are incorrect that if he was born overseas he would have natural born citizenship. Those are the key words: natural born.

    Natural born means you were born a citizen. You didn't become a citizen through naturalization. I think it's about possible loyality issues.

    I'm not going to claim to be some legal scholar. But there is the jus soli argument of citizenship due to being born on soil of US jurisdiction and then there is the jus sanguinis argument of citzenship by blood.

    The phrase "natural born citizen" is constitutionally unique. And most would gather jus soli applies. Either way we will see how things pan out. I'm just puzzled at why no one is allowed to see his birth records. And the only people who have put out artfully constructed statements regarding it. Sealing some of his other records while it raises eyebrows, I can shrug it off. But you must be a natural born citizen to be president. The founders even grandfather-claused themselves because they did not want the highest office of the land to be held by someone with divided loyalties. If that is disregarded then country will open up a pandora's box.

    By the way the D'Onofrio case also argues that several other presidential contenders are not eligible, including McCain.
    As I said before this electoral cycles gets weirder and weirder but I've got my popcorn.
  • afrosheenqueenafrosheenqueen Posts: 5,400Registered Users
    McCain had his own issues. He was born in the Panama Canal zone to U.S. citizens. A Federal judge had to go to bat for him just this past September.
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  • CottonCandyCurlsCottonCandyCurls Posts: 344Registered Users
    McCain had his own issues. He was born in the Panama Canal zone to U.S. citizens. A Federal judge had to go to bat for him just this past September.

    Yes and his natural born citizen status could be questioned as well. This would be a very strange constitutional crisis if it was found that Obama was born in Mombasa like some people are alleging. And if McCain was challenged as well. I suppose Biden would then act as President until someone qualifies. Haha, I'm sure Palin will show up in DC and raise her hand.
  • TrenellTrenell Posts: 3,562Registered Users
    McCain had his own issues. He was born in the Panama Canal zone to U.S. citizens. A Federal judge had to go to bat for him just this past September.

    so even if Obama was born out of the country, it'll be all good.

    I just remember being a teen and very concerned that I couldn't become president. A teacher told me that since my parents were citizens, I was fine. Maybe he was wrong. At any rate, if it's not the case, it should be.
  • journotravelerjournotraveler Posts: 2,816Registered Users
    these two links are from factcheck.org. factcheck.org is the site for t[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]he annenberg political fact check, a project of the annenberg public policy center of the university of pennsylvania. it's a non-partisan group. their findings:

    [/FONT]
    FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.factcheck.org%2Felections-2008%2Fborn_in_the_usa.html" class="Popup

    and:

    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.factcheck.org%2Faskfactcheck%2Fhas_obamas_birth_certificate_been_disclosed.html" class="Popup


    [/FONT]
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  • sew and sewsew and sew Posts: 3,443Registered Users
    Annenberg's input is cast into question because of the foundation's interests with Obama. In '95 he served as Board Chairman and President of the Annenberg Chicago Challenge and directed how their money was spent (around $60 mil). If you're willing to entertain skepticism with factcheck itself, check out objections taken with their findings.
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  • CottonCandyCurlsCottonCandyCurls Posts: 344Registered Users
    these two links are from factcheck.org. factcheck.org is the site for t[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]he annenberg political fact check, a project of the annenberg public policy center of the university of pennsylvania. it's a non-partisan group. their findings:

    [/FONT]
    FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.factcheck.org%2Felections-2008%2Fborn_in_the_usa.html" class="Popup

    and:

    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.factcheck.org%2Faskfactcheck%2Fhas_obamas_birth_certificate_been_disclosed.html" class="Popup


    [/FONT]

    I'm sorry I've looked at those close-ups and they are not satisfactory to me. I'm not a digital specialist but I use photoshop almost every other day. But when I click on the blow-up of the certificate number all the lettering that is not in the border looks unnecessarily strange. Regardless I would want a judge and a forensic expert to have it in hand to look at. In 2008, digital images don't pass muster for me. And if I was in his position I would release it, silence my critics and point out how foolish they have been. Instead it's avoid avoid avoid. That is what creates some doubts.

    I also don't know if I would classify Annenberg as non-partisan. The Brookings Institute refers to itself as non-partisan but it's quite clear they lean left. Which is fine, the Brookings Institute produces some good work. But that is not the issue. Every lawsuit that has been put forward is different and has different arguments and angles. And many focus on more than just the birth certificate. I'm sure more details about the cases will come out as things proceed. And it will be interesting to say the least.

    Also "factcheck" doesn't discuss at all what westcoastcurls brought up. Hawaii's unique history and their provision that allows for the registration of out-of-state births. Those "out of state births" could become naturalized citizens and they are allowed to have a certification of live birth which is different document all together than the birth certificate being asked for.

    Again, if there is nothing there, then there is nothing to worry about. We have entrusted him to protect and defend the country. I don't think it's too much to ask for proof of meeting the requirements. He's over 35 as Bill Clinton slyly pointed out, but the question now is, is he a "natural-born-citizen"?
  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users
    Funny thing is...the Constitution doesn't stipulate what "natural born citizen" actually means. If one wants to be an ass, one could contend that anyone born by cesarian section isn't "natural born". Or if mommy had an epidural. Oops, sorry Mr/Ms Candidate, you mother had drugs during your delivery, so you can't be president.

    The dirt diggers found a newspaper birth announcement from 1961 in a Hawaii newspaper with his parent's address. Kalanianaole Hwy? Sure sounds like a Hawaiian address to me. There is such an address listed in Honolulu. I googled it. Maybe his parents were clairvoyant and placed the ad just in case he wanted to be president someday. How forward thinking of them. They must have been in on the conspiracy.

    announcementclose-up.jpg

    Honestly, drop the nonsense, you're looking foolish.
  • yogawavesyogawaves Posts: 368Registered Users
    quite frankly, I think it should be left alone. If there wasn't anything made of it when he was running, and by that I mean , if it wasn't clearly found that he wasn't a citizen before, it shouldn't be drudged up again.
    He's President now, let's see how he fares.
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  • MichelleBFTMichelleBFT Posts: 4,812Registered Users
    This is just silly. Seriously.

    From /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usconstitution.net%2Fconsttop_citi.html" class="Popup

    "Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)"

    So even if we're trying to argue that he wasn't born in the US (which is bunk, but hey, I'll play), his mother was a born-and-bred Kansas girl. Endgame.

    US Code Title 8, section 1401 defines Constitutional natural-born citizenship. It's not vague nonsense, which is why the cases being filed have no merit. The people filing them should be ashamed of wasting taxpayer money pursuing this tripe.
    "And politically correct is the worst term, not just because it’s dismissive, but because it narrows down the whole social justice spectrum to this idea that it’s about being polite instead of about dismantling the oppressive social structure of power.
    Fun Fact: When you actively avoid being “PC,” you’re not being forward-thinking or unique. You’re buying into systems of oppression that have existed since before you were even born, and you’re keeping those systems in place."
    Stolen.
  • Myradella3Myradella3 Posts: 2,481Registered Users
    ^^^^One of the cases though says that his Mom wasn't citizen because she was so young when he was born.

    Does anyone know if either of the Bush presidents had to show their vault copy of their birth certificate? If I were Obama, I would go to the vault to make sure then not show the kind people asking for it.
  • MichelleBFTMichelleBFT Posts: 4,812Registered Users
    Myradella3 wrote: »
    ^^^^One of the cases though says that his Mom wasn't citizen because she was so young when he was born.

    Does anyone know if either of the Bush presidents had to show their vault copy of their birth certificate? If I were Obama, I would go to the vault to make sure then not show the kind people asking for it.

    Age hasn't got anything to do with citizenship. If you're born a citizen, you're a citizen. If you procreate as a citizen, your kids are citizens.
    "And politically correct is the worst term, not just because it’s dismissive, but because it narrows down the whole social justice spectrum to this idea that it’s about being polite instead of about dismantling the oppressive social structure of power.
    Fun Fact: When you actively avoid being “PC,” you’re not being forward-thinking or unique. You’re buying into systems of oppression that have existed since before you were even born, and you’re keeping those systems in place."
    Stolen.
  • xcptnlxcptnl Posts: 15,678Registered Users
    This type of stuff just annoys the CRAP outta me! Why are they allowed to waste my $ making the supreme court look at cases like this?? WHYYYY? Any $ spent on this case by the US Government should be charged back to the people who are bringing this foolishness up. :angry1:
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  • TrenellTrenell Posts: 3,562Registered Users
    I think there are just some people out there who want so badly for for Obama to be proven to not be natural born .
  • MichelleBFTMichelleBFT Posts: 4,812Registered Users
    Trenell wrote: »
    I think there are just some people out there who want so badly for for Obama to be proven to not be natural born .

    I don't think it's really even about his citizenship, I think it's about hating him for whatever reason and grabbing at whatever minuscule straw to discredit him. It's pathetic.
    "And politically correct is the worst term, not just because it’s dismissive, but because it narrows down the whole social justice spectrum to this idea that it’s about being polite instead of about dismantling the oppressive social structure of power.
    Fun Fact: When you actively avoid being “PC,” you’re not being forward-thinking or unique. You’re buying into systems of oppression that have existed since before you were even born, and you’re keeping those systems in place."
    Stolen.
  • AmandacurlsAmandacurls Posts: 6,252Registered Users
    Honestly I don't care one way or the other, I just want the rule to be set, so there are no questions.
  • KookyCurlKookyCurl Posts: 1,980Registered Users
    It's a relatively moot point anyway because if they somehow convince people it's true and they declare him unfit to serve the Vice-Pres. elect will take office and serve out that elected term. We won't have new elections nor will Congress appoint someone.

    [/I]Section 3 of the 20th Amendment:

    3. If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.[/I]

    So basically Joe would take over and I'm willing to bet Congress would find him fit to serve and appoint him President (as fulfilling the voice of the people who are already exausted from a long election cycle and probably wouldn't stand for another one).

    Anyway....it's moot point and I completely agree that it's a waste of Supreme Court time and money. But maybe they just want to put the issue to bed in a time of increasing immigration and such so choose to use this as a time to make an early interpretation. Either way I don't anticipate it going anyway other than smoothly. Obama himself is a Constitutional Scholar. If he thought there would be any question as to his citizenship he probably wouldn't have run.
  • southrncurlssouthrncurls Posts: 152Registered Users
    Myradella3 wrote: »
    This has been floating around the Internet for over a year. While the RNC might have been too stupid do make it a public issue, no way the Clintons would have let this slip by had it had any real credibility. Even if he was born overseas, his mother's citizenship gave him citizenship.

    Please note that I'm not flaming you, I just don't think this has any legs. But it will be fun to see how many people think it does.

    That's what I was going to say. I thought that was a widely known fact? Guess not (no offense to the OP).

    I know it doesn't matter any more because he won but did you guys take American Government? Unless the law has changed in the last 5 years in order to be the President of the United States you MUST have been born in AMERICA! Not just a US citizen. I'm not saying he wasn't born him I'm just stating a fact!
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