I hesitate to post this...

RheannaRheanna Registered Users Posts: 2,614
yet I do so anyway. ;)

Thoughts?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

At about the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution, in the year 1787, Alexander Tyler (a Scottish history professor at The University of Edinborough) had this to say about "The Fall of The Athenian Republic" some 2,000 years prior.

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship."

"The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years,these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage."
DPTFm5.png

Comments

  • CurlyGina2CurlyGina2 Registered Users Posts: 1,048
    Ehh. His opinion.

    I wouldn't really pay much attention to chain e-mails.

    ETA: I really don't understand people who think that we will be led into a dictatorship. Not that the original post said anything about that. Just what I've heard around.
  • EfrizzabethEfrizzabeth Registered Users Posts: 8,792 Curl Neophyte
    I received that one too & immediately deleted it. I got it from the same people who had everything bad to say about Obama, who also sent e-mails with racial undertones. And they're the same ones who sent **** about how while democrats were in office there were more rapes, murders, abortions, etc. & so on. :roll:
  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Registered Users Posts: 31,259 Curl Connoisseur
    Here's what Wiki says about that "quote":
    This passage actually comprises two quotations. The first paragraph being one and the second paragraph and list, commonly known as the "Tytler cycle", or more anonymously as the "Fatal Sequence", being the other. Both can be traced back to the 1950's, and they began to appear together in the 1970's. No original author can reliably be determined for either quotation.

    It's probably a good idea to vet these things before posting them as true on a message board. Otherwise, well...you kinda look like Bush picking Palin...all show, no substance.
  • afrosheenqueenafrosheenqueen Registered Users Posts: 5,400 Curl Connoisseur
    4a/b Texlaxed hair w/ highlights. Medium texture & high porosity.

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  • RheannaRheanna Registered Users Posts: 2,614
    Um, I didn't get it as an e-mail... I had heard parts of the quote several times from several different sources (and well before the last election) and I looked it up the other day and found that. Hmmm. I had heard since probably middle school, or maybe even elementary school, about how the average lifespan of a democracy was close to 200 years. I didn't read the rest of the e-mail when I searched for it though, as far as the Bush vs. Gore stuff.
    DPTFm5.png
  • rouquinnerouquinne Registered Users Posts: 13,737 Curl Connoisseur
    Rhiannon wrote: »
    ... the average lifespan of a democracy was close to 200 years.

    um.... considering that democracies have only existed for little more than 200 years, how would anyone know that they only last that long?

    the ancient Athenian system certainly wasn't democracy as we know it, so that hardly applies.
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  • afrosheenqueenafrosheenqueen Registered Users Posts: 5,400 Curl Connoisseur
    Rhiannon wrote: »
    I had heard since probably middle school, or maybe even elementary school, about how the average lifespan of a democracy was close to 200 years.

    Your quote says this though:
    The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years,these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

    Not all civilizations are democracies. It's either one or the other. My opinion on the quote in your OP is that it just seems to be bits of quotes strung together to make a point but I don't think it does.
    4a/b Texlaxed hair w/ highlights. Medium texture & high porosity.

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  • cymprenicympreni Registered Users Posts: 9,609 Curl Neophyte
    I'm having a hard time with the "great civilizations lasted an average of 200 years" line. I can think of a lot civilizations off the top of my head that lasted beyond 200 years. The ancient Egyptians last 3 millenia or if you prefer something closer to democracy then there was the roman empire. Then more modern examples would be England's first elected parliament in early 13th century, Poland's Noble's democracy in the 16th century.

    Maybe my definition of civilization is different from the whoever wrote that. The way I see it, pretty much all the civilizations that are around today, have been around for a very long time. There have been changes over the years, but their civilization still exists.
  • SleighSleigh Registered Users Posts: 1,226
    it is an interesting concept - like that one idea that if you're not worrying about food/shelter, you worry about unimportant stuff instead (ack - cant remember the name).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy

    yeah i know it's wikipedia.

    and i guess athenians did have a version of a democracy -

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athenian_democracy

    don't know that i agree with the 200 years...but interesting none the less.
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  • sew and sewsew and sew Registered Users Posts: 3,443
    Rhi, I also wound up coming upon that quote (except an older form I guess). It wasn't on a partisan site either.

    I do believe it's two different quotes put together.

    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over lousy fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average of the world's great civilizations before they decline has been 200 years. These nations have progressed in this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; from faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependency; from dependency back again to bondage"

    It was reused by a guy in the 1950s who gave credit to Tytler from 1870. I think his words are the gray.

    This wasn't something that was put out there to oppose Obama, and we've been long seeing government's place as a dispensary of "largesse". Some of doing so happens because of practicality, but we've been on the described route for quite a while-where the approach to what government's rightful role is has shifted. "Rightful" depends on your political philosophy of course, but the idea is a philosophy that successfully supports liberty and prosperity for all would consider the shift described to be negative.

    Cympreni-I have spotty knowledge of history so I'll defer to you, do you think the fact those civilizations supposedly begin to decline after 200 years is a feasible thought? So they didn't just fold at that time, but it's when the process of decline began to be visible?

    I have a conspiracy theory like suspicion that we will follow that course. Only we won't find ourselves under a U.S. style dictatorship, but more a collection of nations merging and then a centralization of economic and policy power with a few. We actually already have the former nationally, under the fed reserve system. There's a good reason why Thomas Jefferson said "I sincerely believe the banking institutions having the issuing power of money, are more dangerous to liberty than standing armies."

    Also the system won't strike people as being created for despotic purposes; it will have been welcomed to enough of an extent that it was allowed to be legitimized in the first place.
    “It was only a sunny smile and little it cost in the giving but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living.” - F. Scott Fitzgerald

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  • mycolorfulheartmycolorfulheart Registered Users Posts: 158
    The Six Nations (or Iroquois Confederacy) lasted 800 years. http://www.ratical.org/many_worlds/6Nations/

    Pretty cool, no? I've heard the US likened to the fall of the Roman Empire, but I've never heard that democracy has to fail because it has an expiration date.

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