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Yes, You Do Need Protein

I read through the threads and most of them are about avoiding protein for the protein sensitive. Lots of people are afraid to use products with protein. In the Spring, Jillipoo discussed the fact that she avoided protein without reason--and then looked to add products with protein.

I have had more frizz of late, no matter what products I've been using--[buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Kinky-Curly-Curling-Custard-p-778.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=kinkycurly-curling-custard]KCCC[/buylink], WSP, Donna Marie and Innersense QCCC. Even adding gel didn't help. My old HGs just weren't responding as they had--I even removed some from the list! After reviewing the ingredients lists from my more natural products, I figured out that I had gone almost protein free. One product had wheat protein, one wheat germ oil as the the last ingredient before fragrance and preservative.

I it up. The last time I did a protein treatment with Nexxus Emergencee was 7/27/08. Instead of making it a big deal, I did two minutes in the shower as per package directions. I could feel the difference in the shower! My hair is almost dry and I have nicely defined curls, good volume and almost no frizz--also no gel! Today I used Donna Marie CCB and WSP.

Bottom line, if you aren't protein sensitive. Make sure you have it in your regime.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Aloe Fix
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Comments

  • MimsTXMimsTX Posts: 3,482Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    very very very true. I accidentally did the same thing for awhile, and ended up overconditioned with limp, lifeless icky hair until I clued in.

    So glad you chimed in on this kathymack :) Might help save another curly several weeks of frustration while they try to figure out what's wrong.
    CG/Mod CG (soap bars) since 8/12/08
    CO wash/Cond: Kathymack & Flowermoon Castille soap bars, V05 Chamomile Tea, Suave Ocean Breeze, Biolage Conditioning Balm
    Styling loves: DIFFUSING! CK, KCNT, KCCC, FOTE (on dry hair only), Re:coil, Proclaim gel
    Not sure about: Boots, Tweek, KBB Milk, DMHJ
    HATE: plopping, FOTE on wet hair, BRHG
  • Curly Girl FlaCurly Girl Fla Posts: 1,834Registered Users
    I really think protein has been treated unfairly on this forum, lol! Those that are protein-sensitive bring the issues to the forefront, which is a good thing since others can experience the same problems. But, all in all, I think most people can handle "normal" amounts of protein fairly regularly. There usually just needs to be a good protein/moisture balance. My hair has always loved protein, but I cut back a bit when I started using henna months ago. Henna initially had a drying effect, and I didn't want to exacerbate the situation. A few weeks ago I began using things with different proteins, not all-natural, but good ingredients mixed with natural ones. My hair is loving it :)! Good post, as usual ;) Kathymack ...
  • onethousandcurlsonethousandcurls Posts: 1,118Registered Users
    My hair does noticably better with KBB Nectar than Giovanni DLI, and I was using Giovanni for a long time, so I think it's the protein. But I should have some protein, even if I might be sensitive to it?
    3b/c, CG 9/18/08
    Last process: 04/05/08 Big Chop: 08/08/09
    Currently: Herbal Essences Hello Hydration, Herbal Essences Set Me Up gel (summer only), Boots Curl Creme (winter only)
  • kathymackkathymack Posts: 9,999Registered Users
    My hair does noticably better with KBB Nectar than Giovanni DLI, and I was using Giovanni for a long time, so I think it's the protein. But I should have some protein, even if I might be sensitive to it?

    I think rcc found that she could reintroduce certain proteins into her regime.

    I was having several issues beside more frizz. My curls weren't quite as tight and my crown/canopy was really dry and disgusting. Today, it looks like I got a haircut my curls are so tight and my crown/canopy is fine--no dryness, just nice tight corkscrews.

    I might even revisit avocado oil in my soap bars. Maybe that wasn't an issue??
    3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
    SE PA

    HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Aloe Fix
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • LoloDSMLoloDSM Posts: 3,778Registered Users
    Good thread, Kathy Mack. My hair LOVES protein, so I try to use my protein conditioners once or twice a week. They make a huge difference. :love7:
    Loose botticelli curls and waves
    No silicones/no sulfates since March 2008
  • CurlygoddessCurlygoddess Posts: 287Registered Users
    very true Kathymack
    I did not think about how lack of protein can cause frizz
    With our hair being made up mostly of protein if we keep depleting it and never adding it our strands will eventually end up falling apart. Frizz probably being the first stage and then eventually leading to beakage.
    Thick coarse 4b hair. Holy Grail: Kinky-Curly Curling Custard. Trying to grow it to bra strap length. Currently collar bone length.
  • msgibletmsgiblet Posts: 5,825Registered Users
    Absolutely ITA!! Protein is important for keeping the hair strong. Luckily, my hair loves it and I always make sure it's somewhere in my routine, although I don't use it daily. I also believe very strongly in doing protein treatments about 10 days before and 10 days after coloring & highlighting whether I think I need a DT or not. Coloring and highlighting is going to cause some damage no matter how careful one is.
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2Fmsgiblet%2F" class="Popup - pw: gibber -- Pics Added 7/10/11
    Fine, Thick, Normal Porosity, Normal Elasticity

    Countess Balashi of Divi Beach in the Order of the Curly Crusaders :occasion5:

    If I'm Going To Have A Bad Hair Day, It Might As Well Be In Aruba!

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • NarniaNarnia Posts: 1,770Registered Users
    msgiblet wrote: »
    I also believe very strongly in doing protein treatments about 10 days before and 10 days after coloring & highlighting

    What would be something that is considered a "protein treatment," that isn't something I have to order online (I'm feeling like all the good stuff has to be ordered!)
    "Life is full of beauty. Notice it. Notice the bumble bee, the small child, and the smiling faces. Smell the rain, and feel the wind. Live your life to the fullest potential, and fight for your dreams.”
  • msgibletmsgiblet Posts: 5,825Registered Users
    Narnia wrote: »
    msgiblet wrote: »
    I also believe very strongly in doing protein treatments about 10 days before and 10 days after coloring & highlighting

    What would be something that is considered a "protein treatment," that isn't something I have to order online (I'm feeling like all the good stuff has to be ordered!)

    I'm not a good one to ask because I'm using up one I got on-line and haven't tried a local one yet. I think a lot like the one kathymack mentioned above -- Nexxus Emergencee.
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2Fmsgiblet%2F" class="Popup - pw: gibber -- Pics Added 7/10/11
    Fine, Thick, Normal Porosity, Normal Elasticity

    Countess Balashi of Divi Beach in the Order of the Curly Crusaders :occasion5:

    If I'm Going To Have A Bad Hair Day, It Might As Well Be In Aruba!

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • redcelticcurlsredcelticcurls Posts: 17,502Registered Users
    My hair does noticably better with KBB Nectar than Giovanni DLI, and I was using Giovanni for a long time, so I think it's the protein. But I should have some protein, even if I might be sensitive to it?

    It depends on the serverity of your sensitivity. You may be able to use the DLI occasionally, but probably not all of the time. You could rotate the KBB with the DLI and see how that works for you.

    I can use keratin, and only keratin, once a week, and that's it. My hair is naturally strong and coarse, so it has plenty of its own protein. I don't need to add much. Stereotypically, finer haired curlies will need more protein than coarse haired curlies. YMMV.

    Kathymack, wheat germ oil, if it is processed properly, is protein free because it is 100% fat. Fats are protein free.
    Kiva! Microfinance works.

    Med/Coarse, porous curly.
  • starg2008starg2008 Posts: 219Registered Users
    is aogpb a protein conditoner? i thought that i was protein sensitive until i started using karen's,my hair got extra mushy then i tried the aogpd and my hair got mushier i was so scared to even touch my hair it was so mushy. so i did a clarifying shampoo and it felt much better. now im confused,should i try a stronger protein treatment when my hair gets like that again.? i may be just sensitive to some ingredients and not protein,sorry to make your heads spin.
  • SariaSaria Posts: 15,963Registered Users
    It's great you posted this. I do see a lot of new posters thinking/wondering if they're protein sensitive. It does seem like protein gets a little vilified around here. :)
    por-que-no-te-callas.jpg
  • redcelticcurlsredcelticcurls Posts: 17,502Registered Users
    IIRC, mushy hair usually means that you need more protein.

    GPB is a fairly protein heavy regular conditioner. I don't know if I'd call it a protein treatment per se. It was too much for me.

    If your hair is still mushy after protein, you might need a stronger treatment like the Aphogee one.

    A more protein tolerant person can answer you more properly. I just watned to chime in about the mushy part.
    Kiva! Microfinance works.

    Med/Coarse, porous curly.
  • kathymackkathymack Posts: 9,999Registered Users
    I really like the Nexxus Emergencee because it's easy. Not sure if the Aphogee is the one I saw at Sally's or there's a Sally's version. You need to read the ingredients, I know I saw mineral oil when I read the ingredients for one I looked at when visiting Sally's. Just a caution--you still have to be ingredient savvy.
    3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
    SE PA

    HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Aloe Fix
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • curlymaybecurlymaybe Posts: 354Registered Users
    Thank you for this thread. Jillipoo's blog entry made me re-evaluate my haircare routine and my hair has been so happy since I've incorporated protein. Also, the Curl Chemist blog on this site had a great article explaining how protein works.
    Hair loves: aloe vera juice, cocoa butter, camellia oil

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Never forget, justice is what love looks like in public." ~ Cornel West
  • redcelticcurlsredcelticcurls Posts: 17,502Registered Users
    I mentioned Aphogee since there was a huge thread over on 4a about how it well it worked, especially for the tighter curl patterns.

    I do use a protein tx with mineral oil. I wouldn't recommend it for the mineral oil sensitive, but it shouldn't hurt on occasion for the non-sensitive.
    Kiva! Microfinance works.

    Med/Coarse, porous curly.
  • LoloDSMLoloDSM Posts: 3,778Registered Users
    Narnia wrote: »
    msgiblet wrote: »
    I also believe very strongly in doing protein treatments about 10 days before and 10 days after coloring & highlighting

    What would be something that is considered a "protein treatment," that isn't something I have to order online (I'm feeling like all the good stuff has to be ordered!)

    It isn't a protein treatment per se, but I use Aubrey Organics' GPB conditioner when I need protein and Korres' Color Conserve Conditioner after coloring my hair. They both do the job and are available locally - AO at a health food store and Korres at Ulta or Sephora.
    Loose botticelli curls and waves
    No silicones/no sulfates since March 2008
  • curlymaybecurlymaybe Posts: 354Registered Users
    Aubrey Organics Swimmer's Conditioner is a light protein that is vegan, paraben-free, and cruelty-free for our eco-conscious curlies.
    Hair loves: aloe vera juice, cocoa butter, camellia oil

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Never forget, justice is what love looks like in public." ~ Cornel West
  • CurlyHairedFarmerCurlyHairedFarmer Posts: 3,073Registered Users
    I am sensitive to certain proteins. However, I still do a protein treatment every so often because otherwise my hair gets gross feeling and begins to break.
    Currently Loving:
    Shampoo: Giovanni 50:50

    Conditioners - CJ Strengthening, CJ Beauticurls Argan and Olive Oil, CJ Rehab, CJ Curl Fix

    Leave-in: CJ Smoothing

    Deep Conditioner: CJ Hibiscus and Banana Deep Fix

    Stylers - Tigi Curls Rock Amplifier, AG:Recoil, KCCC, Mop-C Curling Cream, Paul Mitchell Sculpting foam
  • CurlygoddessCurlygoddess Posts: 287Registered Users
    IIRC, mushy hair usually means that you need more protein.

    yes, that's very true

    and brittle dry hair can mean too much protein.

    Aubry GPB is good because of the natural protein it uses and the enzymes in them penetrate the hair shaft better than synthetic ones.

    Nexus emergencee is acidifying and helps close the cuticle after the protein is deposited.

    Aphoghee is heavy duty stuff and does well with people who do chemical treatments (relaxers, very drastic color or bleach) I liked it when I permed but now it is too much for my hair.

    I think most of us pay close attention to our hair and I think protein is one of those things that should be used depending on the things we do to our own hair. Someone who colors and flat irons will need more protein that some who does wash and go all the time.

    we should take all that into consideration instead of just feeling we are protein sensitive. also look at what else you are doing in our hair care regimen.
    Thick coarse 4b hair. Holy Grail: Kinky-Curly Curling Custard. Trying to grow it to bra strap length. Currently collar bone length.
  • starg2008starg2008 Posts: 219Registered Users
    thank you, i noticed every thing that i used before that didn't work for my hair had some form of protein(thinking that i was protein sensitive), and also the products ive used before were not natural,since ive changed my routine using natural products my hair is much better and i know that every once in a while i do need some sort of protein. and with karen's im with km i haven't had to deep condition in a long time.but i still need to balance moist/protein, thanks km for this thread and to the ladies who've contributed, it helps alot with clarification when some one is not sure.
  • CurlygoddessCurlygoddess Posts: 287Registered Users
    Kathymack, wheat germ oil, if it is processed properly, is protein free because it is 100% fat. Fats are protein free.

    Thanks, I did not know that

    Also RCC, what is this GVP conditioner you say you use in your signature?
    Thick coarse 4b hair. Holy Grail: Kinky-Curly Curling Custard. Trying to grow it to bra strap length. Currently collar bone length.
  • redcelticcurlsredcelticcurls Posts: 17,502Registered Users
    IIRC, mushy hair usually means that you need more protein.

    yes, that's very true

    and brittle dry hair can mean too much protein.

    Aubry GPB is good because of the natural protein it uses and the enzymes in them penetrate the hair shaft better than synthetic ones.

    Nexus emergencee is acidifying and helps close the cuticle after the protein is deposited.

    Aphoghee is heavy duty stuff and does well with people who do chemical treatments (relaxers, very drastic color or bleach) I liked it when I permed but now it is too much for my hair.

    I think most of us pay close attention to our hair and I think protein is one of those things that should be used depending on the things we do to our own hair. Someone who colors and flat irons will need more protein that some who does wash and go all the time.

    we should take all that into consideration instead of just feeling we are protein sensitive. also look at what else you are doing in our hair care regimen.

    True, that and the hair texture. I color and heat style and should need protein going by that. But, having coarse hair strands, I still go low protein because my hairs natural texture compensates for the processes that I use.
    Kiva! Microfinance works.

    Med/Coarse, porous curly.
  • redcelticcurlsredcelticcurls Posts: 17,502Registered Users
    Kathymack, wheat germ oil, if it is processed properly, is protein free because it is 100% fat. Fats are protein free.

    Thanks, I did not know that

    Also RCC, what is this GVP conditioner you say you use in your signature?

    I use Generic Value Products version of the K-pak reconstructor from Sallys. I like it because it works for me and it's cheap - the only cheap thing I use, lol.

    It does contain mineral oil for those who avoid it.
    Kiva! Microfinance works.

    Med/Coarse, porous curly.
  • CurlygoddessCurlygoddess Posts: 287Registered Users
    I use Generic Value Products version of the K-pak reconstructor from Sallys. I like it because it works for me and it's cheap - the only cheap thing I use, lol.

    hey as long as it works...and your hair is amazing BTW

    I thought GVP was a giovanni product and I was trying to figure it out for the longest.....Thanks RCC
    Thick coarse 4b hair. Holy Grail: Kinky-Curly Curling Custard. Trying to grow it to bra strap length. Currently collar bone length.
  • wildwoodflowrwildwoodflowr Posts: 63Registered Users
    Protein confuses me a lot since I've only been curly for a few months and am taking in tons of great information from this forum.

    Right now for me it seems to be about balance, like others were saying. I've been trying a low protein conditioner whenever my curls seem to be losing their curliness. Also noticing that my damaged ends (from everyday flat-ironing) react different than the first inch or so of healthy hair. The super damaged parts of my hair get super brittle while the healthy parts feel stronger, curlier, and just happier.

    When I started out with CG, all my conditioners were loaded with protein. My hair loved it for a good while but it freaked out after a few months, even the healthy parts.

    Is there a difference between being protein sensitive and just overloaded with protein? Or are those the same thing? Good thread! There's so much to learn from all of you!
    3a to 3b Medium/Coarse iii, Protein Sensitive

    Occasional Cleanser: EO Products Sweet Orange Shampoo
    Conditioners: VO5 or Suave Conditioners (Co-wash), GVP Conditioning Balm (Rinse Out/Leave In), AOHR (Deep Treat)
    Stylers: Herbal Essences Set Me Up Gel, Karen's Body Beautiful Hair Nectar (SOTC)

  • ZigaZagaZigaZaga Posts: 473Registered Users
    As I mentioned on a thread I started yesterday (since it did not get much in the way of responses I am hopping over here to this duplicate thread which appears nice and active!....hope you don't mind! :)) I think my hair needs some protein because the parts under the canopy seem unusually fine, tending to knot, and wayyyyyy less curl than usual. I had been avoiding protein because my hair would get real crispy, especially with wheat proteins. I was using a product with silk protein my hair seemed to like but I have not been able to find the product a few months now. So I have actually not used anything with protein all this time.

    Since I don't live in North America I don't have your same products so I have to go by methods and ingredients.

    Would you say it would be best to do a DT using a high protein restructuring hair mask......or I have some leave in keratine fiales I could use. Or would you just suggest a quick conditioning with a protein conditioner after co-washing? This last seems more like something better for maintenence to be used every now and then once I get my hair back on track. I think right now I could use a quick fix. Thoughts?

    Thanks in advance. Appreciate your suggestions! Tomorrow is the day. :)
    -3A?
    -Fine, ii (almost iii) thickness
    -salon pintura and natural sun-made highlights combo
    -CG since October 2007, rare occasional low poo.
    -Growing it out
    click here for fotki pics
    -pw: ziggy
  • jillipoojillipoo Posts: 3,795Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Well, needless to say, I am pro-protein! For myself, anyway. That discovery and aloe vera one were hella-significant for me in understanding how this whole hair thing works.

    It's funny that this is coming up right now because I recently blogged about *re*discovering protein just a couple of weeks ago. I had let my periodic Emergencee treatments go and as a result, my hair was getting droopy. One treatment later, and all was well again. I'm thinking that, for me, Emergencee every few weeks is a must.

    But I also wanted to direct all of you to a really great site that a little birdie told me is actually the work of our very own StruttsWife! She talks about hair structure in easy-to-read detail:
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.livecurlylivefree.com%2Fcurly%2520hair%2520basics.htm" class="Popup

    and she also debunks the silly hair classification system that Curly Girl promotes. (The type of curl you have has virtually no bearing on how to care for your hair.) Anyway, with regard to protein, she points out that fine-haired curlies are better off opting for protein-rich conditioners rather than emollient and humectant-based ones, and I found myself nodding in agreement because that's definitely been the experience on this particular head.

    Anyway, it's a great site and I urge everyone (especially newbies) to check it out!

    Thanks for this post, Kathymack. It's a topic that never gets old!
    3a and strictly CG since August 2007. Porous and on the fine side. No to magnesium sulfate and glycerin. Yes to protein! Favorites:
    CO-WASHES: Suave Coconut
    CONDITIONERS and LEAVE-INS: Mop Top Daily Conditioner, KBB Nectar, Aubrey GPB or Island Naturals, Robert Craig, Any Jessicurl
    CURL ENHANCERS/CREMES/MOUSSES: KCCC, JoiWhip
    GELS: Fuzzy Duck, B5 Design, MGA Scultping, BRHG


    Fotki password: chuckle
    Blog: /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fjillipoo.blogspot.com%2F" class="Popup
    Twitter: nopoojillipoo
  • wild_sasparillawild_sasparilla Posts: 4,306Registered Users
    I do remember being a newbie and wondering if I might be protein sensitive, so it's definitely big on here - but at the same time, when I tried that blue Sally's version of a Paul Mitchell leave-in, there was no questioning what was up. The instant, almost splintery, dry hair when wet clued me in that it was time to give that conditioner away to a friend.

    I do wonder if maybe I need a protein treatment right now because of all the evil sulfate attacks I've subjected my hair to lately without a suitably rich conditioner to follow. But then, when I grab a hair off the top of my head and feel it, it feels coarse and plenty able to hack it on its own. (This coarseness isn't true for the hair at the nape of my neck, but that's just how it goes.) Well, pickings are slim here, so I'd have to wait till Thanksgiving break to do it anyway.

    Maybe when I get there, I can just slather my hair with the [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/AG-Recoil-p-24.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=ag-hair-cosmetics-recoil-curl-activator]re:coil[/buylink] I'm planning on swapping.:glasses7:
    OMG, LOOK!!

    ...It's a siggie. :shock:
  • MagooMagoo Posts: 2,173Registered Users
    I used to be able to use tons of protein products with no problem years ago and then suddenly became protein sensitive so I avoided protein like the plague for quite a while.
    My curls started to become limp and lose definition.
    After reading RCC's post about experimenting with protein a few months ago, I decided to add some protein to my routine. I tried the GVP treatment and it really made a big difference in my hair. My curls popped back and I got back my definition (thanks, RCC:wave:) But I still have to be careful about not going overboard or my hair starts to get dry and tangly. My hair only seems to be able to tolerate the occasional use of a conditioner with protein and I've only been brave enough to use ones with Keratin since I've had good results with it.

    I have some of the Nexxus Emergencee but I'm not brave enough to experiment with that again yet. I used to be able to use it with no problems but the last time I used it a couple of years ago my hair turned into a dried out straw mess.
    3b/c fine, thick, porous, protein sensitive
    Modified CG, CJ Rehab, JCWDT, KCKT, VO5 Chamomile Tea Therapy, CJDF, HEBE Gel/Mousse, Bioinfusion Rosemary Mint shampoo, occasional protein

    Experimenting with BRHG

    "If you want the rainbow, you've gotta put up with the rain"
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