Help for curls living in a dry climate...zero humidity

My hair used to be a solid 3b when I lived on the East Coast. Corkscrew and Botticelli curls *easy*. But now, living in dry Colorado, my hair is simply wavy at best. It's really disappointing. I've tried plopping, various gels, creams, diffusing upside down, not diffusing, etc, etc. I'm at my wits end.

Is there anyone in the same situation who has a solution? Which products do you use? Which routine do you use? I would really, REALLY appreciate it!!

Never in my wildest dreams would I think I would ever say this, but I MISS the humidity.

Thank you!!
CG since 2002
True 3b, but looser curls since moving to drier climate. BSL thick, medium-course hair with some 2C/3a on canopy. Curlygirl since 2001. Devachan client NYC from 2001-2005.

-co-wash w/Devacurl No-Poo or Suave conditioner
-condition Deva One Condition or GVP Balm
-i never use a leave in
-style with KCCC or Angell or Devacurl Styling Cream
**likes: everything above. dislikes: glycerin, BRHG, KBB**
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Comments

  • DEL2CDEL2C Posts: 6,418Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Reddish Rocks is in your part of the country, you might want to check her out and see what she's using! Also specifically what products have you tried so others can assist ;)
    Discovered CG 2007

    2C Fia BSL/Thick/Med-Coarse/Low(crown)-Normal Porosity Protein and Oil Sensitive

    Link-Spritz & Condish Washing:glasses7:

    I'm aCurlJunkieJunky :love4:

    My hair LOVES Coconut DESPISES Soap Bars :tongue6:


    CJRehab or H&B Fix, Deva NO POO, EO Rose & Cham POO & Condish, CJ CurlFix, CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB, SS FHG, KCCC, BRHG, AG Mousse Gel, ACV Rinses,Shikakai Conditioning Hair Rinse.
  • LunacurlLunacurl Posts: 150Registered Users
    Thank you. I'll have to track down Reddish Rocks.

    Truthfully, I had been pretty lazy with products, just using no-poo and one-condition. I was so happy to not have frizz that I didn't bother using any product. But I'm tired of not having my real curls and just waves. So here are some of the products I have used with no success:

    Boots Curling Cream, original formula
    [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Curly-Hair-Solutions-Curl-Keeper-p-28.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=curly-hair-solutions-curl-keeper]Curl Keeper[/buylink]
    Tweek
    Fuzzy Duck gel
    JCS Hair Nourishing Cream
    Jessiecurl products

    I've quickly learned that glycerin does not work for me in this climate.

    I'm going to dig out my bottle of Angell and try that. I also just ordered [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Kinky-Curly-Curling-Custard-p-778.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=kinkycurly-curling-custard]KCCC[/buylink] and [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Kinky-Curly-Knot-Today-p-207.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=kinkycurly-knot-today-leaveindetangler]KCKT[/buylink] which are glycerin free, so hopefully I will have some luck with them.

    Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated. :toothy7:
    CG since 2002
    True 3b, but looser curls since moving to drier climate. BSL thick, medium-course hair with some 2C/3a on canopy. Curlygirl since 2001. Devachan client NYC from 2001-2005.

    -co-wash w/Devacurl No-Poo or Suave conditioner
    -condition Deva One Condition or GVP Balm
    -i never use a leave in
    -style with KCCC or Angell or Devacurl Styling Cream
    **likes: everything above. dislikes: glycerin, BRHG, KBB**
  • dulciandulcian Posts: 73Registered Users
    Have you tried adding aloe vera to your routine? It sounds like your curls are craving moisture, and AVG is one of the best moisturizers around. Some curlies use it as a leave-in, some mix it with stylers, and I think there's even a thread somewhere about making a refresher spray out of it.

    Oils will help seal moisture in. You're already avoiding glycerin, which is a good tactic; you should probably avoid other humectants as well.

    This thread might also be helpful: Calling all curlies who DO need moisture!

    Good luck!
    Hair Journal. 2b/3a, Mii, never colored, rarely heat-styled. CG since 27-Mar-08. Current favorite routine: Aloeba (co-wash), AOHR (rinse-out), KCKT mixed with AVG (leave-in), KCCC, BRHG, overnight plop, scrunch crunch with Nourish & Shine.
  • LunacurlLunacurl Posts: 150Registered Users
    I don't wash the One Condition out, so it is also used as a leave in. I haven't tried AVG since I lived on the East Coast, so thank you for the reminder. I'll see how it fairs in dry Colorado. And thank you so much for that link!!! It's *very* helpful. :blob7:
    CG since 2002
    True 3b, but looser curls since moving to drier climate. BSL thick, medium-course hair with some 2C/3a on canopy. Curlygirl since 2001. Devachan client NYC from 2001-2005.

    -co-wash w/Devacurl No-Poo or Suave conditioner
    -condition Deva One Condition or GVP Balm
    -i never use a leave in
    -style with KCCC or Angell or Devacurl Styling Cream
    **likes: everything above. dislikes: glycerin, BRHG, KBB**
  • kathymackkathymack Posts: 9,999Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    If you're only using nopoo, you may be having issues with the A-cone in Deva One building up. Most need a lowpoo to remove it.
    3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
    SE PA

    HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Aloe Fix
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MimsTXMimsTX Posts: 3,482Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Lunacurl wrote: »
    I don't wash the One Condition out, so it is also used as a leave in. I haven't tried AVG since I lived on the East Coast, so thank you for the reminder. I'll see how it fairs in dry Colorado. And thank you so much for that link!!! It's *very* helpful. :blob7:

    [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Kinky-Curly-Curling-Custard-p-778.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=kinkycurly-curling-custard]KCCC[/buylink] has aloe in it. It's VERY moisturizing on my hair. Maybe give that a shot and see how it does... if you notice SOME improvement but not as much as you want, then I'd look into getting an AVG for on top of the [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Kinky-Curly-Curling-Custard-p-778.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=kinkycurly-curling-custard]kCCC[/buylink] :)
    CG/Mod CG (soap bars) since 8/12/08
    CO wash/Cond: Kathymack & Flowermoon Castille soap bars, V05 Chamomile Tea, Suave Ocean Breeze, Biolage Conditioning Balm
    Styling loves: DIFFUSING! CK, KCNT, KCCC, FOTE (on dry hair only), Re:coil, Proclaim gel
    Not sure about: Boots, Tweek, KBB Milk, DMHJ
    HATE: plopping, FOTE on wet hair, BRHG
  • LunacurlLunacurl Posts: 150Registered Users
    Would an ACV rinse remove it? That's usually what I do to "clarify", but maybe I'm wrong? And I rotate my products. I started using One Condition again recently after going through a bottle of Aubrey's Honeysuckle Rose conditioner. And a month ago I used an organic, no-sulfates cleanser that got rid of build up, so I don't think that's the issue. I wish it was...that would be simple to solve. :)
    CG since 2002
    True 3b, but looser curls since moving to drier climate. BSL thick, medium-course hair with some 2C/3a on canopy. Curlygirl since 2001. Devachan client NYC from 2001-2005.

    -co-wash w/Devacurl No-Poo or Suave conditioner
    -condition Deva One Condition or GVP Balm
    -i never use a leave in
    -style with KCCC or Angell or Devacurl Styling Cream
    **likes: everything above. dislikes: glycerin, BRHG, KBB**
  • LunacurlLunacurl Posts: 150Registered Users
    MimsTX wrote: »
    Lunacurl wrote: »
    I don't wash the One Condition out, so it is also used as a leave in. I haven't tried AVG since I lived on the East Coast, so thank you for the reminder. I'll see how it fairs in dry Colorado. And thank you so much for that link!!! It's *very* helpful. :blob7:

    [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Kinky-Curly-Curling-Custard-p-778.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=kinkycurly-curling-custard]KCCC[/buylink] has aloe in it. It's VERY moisturizing on my hair. Maybe give that a shot and see how it does... if you notice SOME improvement but not as much as you want, then I'd look into getting an AVG for on top of the [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Kinky-Curly-Curling-Custard-p-778.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=kinkycurly-curling-custard]kCCC[/buylink] :)

    Thank you!! I'm *very* excited to be getting the [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Kinky-Curly-Curling-Custard-p-778.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=kinkycurly-curling-custard]KCCC[/buylink]. I hope it arrives soon. :toothy7:
    CG since 2002
    True 3b, but looser curls since moving to drier climate. BSL thick, medium-course hair with some 2C/3a on canopy. Curlygirl since 2001. Devachan client NYC from 2001-2005.

    -co-wash w/Devacurl No-Poo or Suave conditioner
    -condition Deva One Condition or GVP Balm
    -i never use a leave in
    -style with KCCC or Angell or Devacurl Styling Cream
    **likes: everything above. dislikes: glycerin, BRHG, KBB**
  • JuicebuffJuicebuff Posts: 12Registered Users
    I live in denver, here are a few of my suggestions and stuff that I use. Try using your [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Curly-Hair-Solutions-Curl-Keeper-p-28.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=curly-hair-solutions-curl-keeper]curl keeper[/buylink] followed by a strong hold gel. I find that the gel keeps the [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Curly-Hair-Solutions-Curl-Keeper-p-28.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=curly-hair-solutions-curl-keeper]curl keeper[/buylink] from vaporizing into our dry air. I am not currently following the cg method but here is what works for me. I have 3b/c fine hair. I use Jessicurl gentle lathering shampoo, wdt or aohr or one condition. then on soaking wet hair I use curls rock amplifier or else [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Curly-Hair-Solutions-Curl-Keeper-p-28.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=curly-hair-solutions-curl-keeper]curl keeper[/buylink] with herbal essence set it up or biosilk rock hard gel over the ck. I find i get a little looser curls with the curls rock. Try doing a deep conditioner every week and maybe get a humidifier for your room at night. When my hair gets flat and limp (sometimes caused by over conditioning)I do a protein treatment (nexxus emergence) followed by [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Jessicurl-Weekly-Deep-Conditioning-Treatment-p-106.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=jessicurl-weekly-deep-conditioner-treatment]Jessicurl WDT[/buylink], and that helps a ton. This is the only time I use protein, because my hair hates it. Hope this helps, oh yeah becareful on using ingrediants that are humcunats (sp) because they draw moisture out of our hair into the dry air.
    3b/c baby fine hair
  • JuicebuffJuicebuff Posts: 12Registered Users
    one more thing- when I use One C all the time I get really bad build up you might want to try using a clarifying or at least low poo to get some of the build up off. Depending what part of the state your in, you might have really hard water try getting a shower filter, it has helped my hair and skin 100%
    3b/c baby fine hair
  • LunacurlLunacurl Posts: 150Registered Users
    Thank you, Juicebuff! I agree with the shower filter 100%. I've been using one for at least 10 years.

    I just gave up on CK today and swapped it out. I dug into my products stash that I haven't used in quite sometime and found Nexxus Phyto Organics Redefining Gel, which I used to love when I lived on the East Coast, so I think I'll give it another try since it is glycerin-free and has strong hold. The over-conditioning is a very good point too. I felt that's where I was last month when I started using a mild sulfate-free clarifying "poo". I just did an Ojon treatment last night which has helped a lot and think I will take your advice on shocking my hair with some protein to shake the occasional build up.

    I live in Boulder, btw. I used to get my haircut at Devachan in NYC and will be looking for a deva stylist in Denver soon. I hear there's a good one in Cherry Creek.

    Thank you for all your suggestions. I love this board!!
    CG since 2002
    True 3b, but looser curls since moving to drier climate. BSL thick, medium-course hair with some 2C/3a on canopy. Curlygirl since 2001. Devachan client NYC from 2001-2005.

    -co-wash w/Devacurl No-Poo or Suave conditioner
    -condition Deva One Condition or GVP Balm
    -i never use a leave in
    -style with KCCC or Angell or Devacurl Styling Cream
    **likes: everything above. dislikes: glycerin, BRHG, KBB**
  • ReddishRocksReddishRocks Posts: 779Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    DEL2C wrote: »
    Reddish Rocks is in your part of the country, you might want to check her out and see what she's using! Also specifically what products have you tried so others can assist ;)

    You rang???? :D

    I read the thread, and I totally agree - glycerin-based products are not working right now. Any humectant is trying to equalize atmospheric moisture, and since ours is very low right now, it's just yanking it from your hair. I'm avoiding honey for that reason too (and because I'm afraid to bleach my red, LOL!). I just got KBB milk, nectar, and cream - today's my first wash with those! They contain oils that I've had some success with. The milk has jojoba, which my curls have responded to before (but I used too much... too stringy - hopefully as a rinse-out, it's not too much now!).

    I think another thing I need to be paying more attention to is dew point vs. humidity. I have a Master's degree and I'm STILL confused by that stuff, LOL! There's some argument that the dew point is more important than relative humidity, and as soon as I can make it simple enough to explain, I'll let you know. :toothy7:

    I've been using KCNT, [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Kinky-Curly-Curling-Custard-p-778.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=kinkycurly-curling-custard]KCCC[/buylink], and FOTE aloe vera gel for styling. I'm really liking the shampoo bars, but today I chose to low-poo because of some odd experiments I've been doing recently, LOL! I'm not yet sure about a rinse-out... been using the LVPNG, but I'm wanting to go more natural if possible, so that's why I'm trying the KBB (which HAS to go back - the sandalwood is just not good...).

    Stay in touch - as things get colder and drier, us Colorado Curlies have to stick together!!

    17May09GlenEyriecrop-1.jpg

    Hair is best when wabi-sabi.
    2b/2c at this length, more 3a when shorter
    M/C ii

    Mod CG: Sept 08
    Using: Suave co-wash, GVP Conditioning Balm, Lustrasilk OOC, MGA, BRHG
    Humectants: @ dew point 40+
    My blog for dry climate curlies and growing out a pixie: Colorado Curly
  • EfrizzabethEfrizzabeth Posts: 8,792Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    ~
  • redcelticcurlsredcelticcurls Posts: 17,502Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    DEL2C wrote: »
    Reddish Rocks is in your part of the country, you might want to check her out and see what she's using! Also specifically what products have you tried so others can assist ;)

    You rang???? :D

    I read the thread, and I totally agree - glycerin-based products are not working right now. Any humectant is trying to equalize atmospheric moisture, and since ours is very low right now, it's just yanking it from your hair. I'm avoiding honey for that reason too (and because I'm afraid to bleach my red, LOL!). I just got KBB milk, nectar, and cream - today's my first wash with those! They contain oils that I've had some success with. The milk has jojoba, which my curls have responded to before (but I used too much... too stringy - hopefully as a rinse-out, it's not too much now!).

    I think another thing I need to be paying more attention to is dew point vs. humidity. I have a Master's degree and I'm STILL confused by that stuff, LOL! There's some argument that the dew point is more important than relative humidity, and as soon as I can make it simple enough to explain, I'll let you know. :toothy7:

    I've been using KCNT, [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Kinky-Curly-Curling-Custard-p-778.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=kinkycurly-curling-custard]KCCC[/buylink], and FOTE aloe vera gel for styling. I'm really liking the shampoo bars, but today I chose to low-poo because of some odd experiments I've been doing recently, LOL! I'm not yet sure about a rinse-out... been using the LVPNG, but I'm wanting to go more natural if possible, so that's why I'm trying the KBB (which HAS to go back - the sandalwood is just not good...).

    Stay in touch - as things get colder and drier, us Colorado Curlies have to stick together!!

    Although PA does not get as dry as what the west does, I think this is quite important. It matters more for me in the summer.

    Personally, I feel that relative humidity does not matter as much with hair as dew point does.

    Dew point cannot be higher than the actual air temperature. So, if it is a rainy 40 degree day, the relative humidity may be near 100%, which would make some think that it is humid. But, the dew point cannot be above 40 at that point, so it won't feel humid the way a hot summer day in the southeast will. The air temperature just isn't high enough to allow for a high dew point.

    From anecdotal evidence I've seen here and from personal experience, curls seem to like dew points in the 40s-50s. When dew points hit the mid 60s (what most people would consider "sticky" for comfort purposes) people will start noticing high-humidity frizz, which could be more accurately called high dew point frizz.

    Dew points in the 30s will be ok for some, and too dry for other curlies, who start noticing limp curls from the dryness. From the low 30's and down, the air is very dry, and most will notice some loss of curl.

    Right now, the dew point in Boulder is 12, which is extremely dry. Dew points like this can really cause serious curl loss. Moisture is key in this type of climate, and most will have to experiment to see how they can add and reatin moisture in their hair.

    If it were me, I'd play with aloe & oil combos. One to give moisture, and oils to retain it. But, I live in the east, so my advice is worth little when it comes to real life application of low dew points.

    I used to want to be a meteorologist, so I do get dew points. :)

    If I had to make it simple, I'd start with these guidelines

    Dew point mid 30's and below - more moisture, less humectants. Find a balance between appropriate moisture and overconditioning.

    Dew points 40-50's into low 60s. Opitmal curl formation. Easier maintenance and can balance moisture and humectants.

    Dew points mid 60's and up. Humectants as tolerated, thought they can backfire for some in extreme high dew points. Generalloy, less moisture is needed than for the low dew points.

    Of course, no curly guidlines hold true for all curlies, so YMMV.
    Kiva! Microfinance works.

    Med/Coarse, porous curly.
  • breezybabybreezybaby Posts: 347Registered Users
    *looking at the above post in awe*
    :notworthy:

    :read2:*going to go read up on dew points now*
    3a/3b/3c hair all on one head :thumright:

    public.fotki.com/breezybaby
    youtube.com/joyfulbree

    Staples (used in many ways):
    Coconut milk
    Castor oil
    Coconut oil
    Honey
    Shea butter
  • LunacurlLunacurl Posts: 150Registered Users
    Although PA does not get as dry as what the west does, I think this is quite important. It matters more for me in the summer.

    Personally, I feel that relative humidity does not matter as much with hair as dew point does.

    Dew point cannot be higher than the actual air temperature. So, if it is a rainy 40 degree day, the relative humidity may be near 100%, which would make some think that it is humid. But, the dew point cannot be above 40 at that point, so it won't feel humid the way a hot summer day in the southeast will. The air temperature just isn't high enough to allow for a high dew point.

    From anecdotal evidence I've seen here and from personal experience, curls seem to like dew points in the 40s-50s. When dew points hit the mid 60s (what most people would consider "sticky" for comfort purposes) people will start noticing high-humidity frizz, which could be more accurately called high dew point frizz.

    Dew points in the 30s will be ok for some, and too dry for other curlies, who start noticing limp curls from the dryness. From the low 30's and down, the air is very dry, and most will notice some loss of curl.

    Right now, the dew point in Boulder is 12, which is extremely dry. Dew points like this can really cause serious curl loss. Moisture is key in this type of climate, and most will have to experiment to see how they can add and reatin moisture in their hair.

    If it were me, I'd play with aloe & oil combos. One to give moisture, and oils to retain it. But, I live in the east, so my advice is worth little when it comes to real life application of low dew points.

    I used to want to be a meteorologist, so I do get dew points. :)

    If I had to make it simple, I'd start with these guidelines

    Dew point mid 30's and below - more moisture, less humectants. Find a balance between appropriate moisture and overconditioning.

    Dew points 40-50's into low 60s. Opitmal curl formation. Easier maintenance and can balance moisture and humectants.

    Dew points mid 60's and up. Humectants as tolerated, thought they can backfire for some in extreme high dew points. Generalloy, less moisture is needed than for the low dew points.

    Of course, no curly guidlines hold true for all curlies, so YMMV.

    This is absolutely PHENOMENAL information!!! Thank you SO MUCH!!! When I first started reading your post I thought it would go way over my head, but as I read on I understood thanks to your excellent description. No wonder my curls have turned into waves at best. Darn dew point! Now I know what to keep an eye on and hope for 40's and 50's dew point days. And in the meantime I'll have to moisturize and seal.

    I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. Thank you!! :notworthy:
    CG since 2002
    True 3b, but looser curls since moving to drier climate. BSL thick, medium-course hair with some 2C/3a on canopy. Curlygirl since 2001. Devachan client NYC from 2001-2005.

    -co-wash w/Devacurl No-Poo or Suave conditioner
    -condition Deva One Condition or GVP Balm
    -i never use a leave in
    -style with KCCC or Angell or Devacurl Styling Cream
    **likes: everything above. dislikes: glycerin, BRHG, KBB**
  • LunacurlLunacurl Posts: 150Registered Users

    You rang???? :D

    I read the thread, and I totally agree - glycerin-based products are not working right now. Any humectant is trying to equalize atmospheric moisture, and since ours is very low right now, it's just yanking it from your hair. I'm avoiding honey for that reason too (and because I'm afraid to bleach my red, LOL!). I just got KBB milk, nectar, and cream - today's my first wash with those! They contain oils that I've had some success with. The milk has jojoba, which my curls have responded to before (but I used too much... too stringy - hopefully as a rinse-out, it's not too much now!).

    I think another thing I need to be paying more attention to is dew point vs. humidity. I have a Master's degree and I'm STILL confused by that stuff, LOL! There's some argument that the dew point is more important than relative humidity, and as soon as I can make it simple enough to explain, I'll let you know. :toothy7:

    I've been using KCNT, [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Kinky-Curly-Curling-Custard-p-778.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=kinkycurly-curling-custard]KCCC[/buylink], and FOTE aloe vera gel for styling. I'm really liking the shampoo bars, but today I chose to low-poo because of some odd experiments I've been doing recently, LOL! I'm not yet sure about a rinse-out... been using the LVPNG, but I'm wanting to go more natural if possible, so that's why I'm trying the KBB (which HAS to go back - the sandalwood is just not good...).

    Stay in touch - as things get colder and drier, us Colorado Curlies have to stick together!!

    Thank you for chiming in. I now feel that I am on the right track thanks to all these great posts and feel very optimistic in receiving the KC products.

    Yes, we'll definitely have to stay in touch. We can send each other dew point alerts if we *ever* see the dew point rise above 40. :happy5:
    CG since 2002
    True 3b, but looser curls since moving to drier climate. BSL thick, medium-course hair with some 2C/3a on canopy. Curlygirl since 2001. Devachan client NYC from 2001-2005.

    -co-wash w/Devacurl No-Poo or Suave conditioner
    -condition Deva One Condition or GVP Balm
    -i never use a leave in
    -style with KCCC or Angell or Devacurl Styling Cream
    **likes: everything above. dislikes: glycerin, BRHG, KBB**
  • CurlyminxCurlyminx Posts: 5,581Registered Users
    DEL2C wrote: »
    Reddish Rocks is in your part of the country, you might want to check her out and see what she's using! Also specifically what products have you tried so others can assist ;)

    You rang???? :D

    I read the thread, and I totally agree - glycerin-based products are not working right now. Any humectant is trying to equalize atmospheric moisture, and since ours is very low right now, it's just yanking it from your hair. I'm avoiding honey for that reason too (and because I'm afraid to bleach my red, LOL!). I just got KBB milk, nectar, and cream - today's my first wash with those! They contain oils that I've had some success with. The milk has jojoba, which my curls have responded to before (but I used too much... too stringy - hopefully as a rinse-out, it's not too much now!).

    I think another thing I need to be paying more attention to is dew point vs. humidity. I have a Master's degree and I'm STILL confused by that stuff, LOL! There's some argument that the dew point is more important than relative humidity, and as soon as I can make it simple enough to explain, I'll let you know. :toothy7:

    I've been using KCNT, [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Kinky-Curly-Curling-Custard-p-778.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=kinkycurly-curling-custard]KCCC[/buylink], and FOTE aloe vera gel for styling. I'm really liking the shampoo bars, but today I chose to low-poo because of some odd experiments I've been doing recently, LOL! I'm not yet sure about a rinse-out... been using the LVPNG, but I'm wanting to go more natural if possible, so that's why I'm trying the KBB (which HAS to go back - the sandalwood is just not good...).

    Stay in touch - as things get colder and drier, us Colorado Curlies have to stick together!!

    Although PA does not get as dry as what the west does, I think this is quite important. It matters more for me in the summer.

    Personally, I feel that relative humidity does not matter as much with hair as dew point does.

    Dew point cannot be higher than the actual air temperature. So, if it is a rainy 40 degree day, the relative humidity may be near 100%, which would make some think that it is humid. But, the dew point cannot be above 40 at that point, so it won't feel humid the way a hot summer day in the southeast will. The air temperature just isn't high enough to allow for a high dew point.

    From anecdotal evidence I've seen here and from personal experience, curls seem to like dew points in the 40s-50s. When dew points hit the mid 60s (what most people would consider "sticky" for comfort purposes) people will start noticing high-humidity frizz, which could be more accurately called high dew point frizz.

    Dew points in the 30s will be ok for some, and too dry for other curlies, who start noticing limp curls from the dryness. From the low 30's and down, the air is very dry, and most will notice some loss of curl.

    Right now, the dew point in Boulder is 12, which is extremely dry. Dew points like this can really cause serious curl loss. Moisture is key in this type of climate, and most will have to experiment to see how they can add and reatin moisture in their hair.

    If it were me, I'd play with aloe & oil combos. One to give moisture, and oils to retain it. But, I live in the east, so my advice is worth little when it comes to real life application of low dew points.

    I used to want to be a meteorologist, so I do get dew points. :)

    If I had to make it simple, I'd start with these guidelines

    Dew point mid 30's and below - more moisture, less humectants. Find a balance between appropriate moisture and overconditioning.

    Dew points 40-50's into low 60s. Opitmal curl formation. Easier maintenance and can balance moisture and humectants.

    Dew points mid 60's and up. Humectants as tolerated, thought they can backfire for some in extreme high dew points. Generalloy, less moisture is needed than for the low dew points.

    Of course, no curly guidlines hold true for all curlies, so YMMV.

    Hands down the best explanation of dew point yet! I found a thread before that sort of goes into it, if I find it I will let you know which one it is, but I wasn't sure what a good range was. You have completely answered my questions.

    Thank you so very much! :notworthy: :thumbup:
    tumblr_mk2chrdnQe1qzwi58o1_500.gif
    Mix of 3s, thick, coarse, medium porosity

    Current hair styling technique: rake with a scrunch at the end. (works with my coarse hair)

    http://public.fotki.com/curlymix/
    pw: curls

    Known HGs: KCCC, homemade fsg, honey
  • ReddishRocksReddishRocks Posts: 779Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Personally, I feel that relative humidity does not matter as much with hair as dew point does.

    Dew point cannot be higher than the actual air temperature. So, if it is a rainy 40 degree day, the relative humidity may be near 100%, which would make some think that it is humid. But, the dew point cannot be above 40 at that point, so it won't feel humid the way a hot summer day in the southeast will. The air temperature just isn't high enough to allow for a high dew point.

    I think what bothered me the most was WHY. WHY is it that this is true, and WHY does it matter? Then it hit me (I think, LOL)! I'm an elementary school teacher, and we're currently talking about the water cycle and weather. As the air temperature increases, that allows for more water molecules to be held in the air, am I right? (Weather is definitely NOT my teaching strength, LOL! :silent: Give me planetary motion and eclipses any day...)

    17May09GlenEyriecrop-1.jpg

    Hair is best when wabi-sabi.
    2b/2c at this length, more 3a when shorter
    M/C ii

    Mod CG: Sept 08
    Using: Suave co-wash, GVP Conditioning Balm, Lustrasilk OOC, MGA, BRHG
    Humectants: @ dew point 40+
    My blog for dry climate curlies and growing out a pixie: Colorado Curly
  • ReddishRocksReddishRocks Posts: 779Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Lunacurl wrote: »
    Thank you for chiming in. I now feel that I am on the right track thanks to all these great posts and feel very optimistic in receiving the KC products.

    Yes, we'll definitely have to stay in touch. We can send each other dew point alerts if we *ever* see the dew point rise above 40. :happy5:

    LMAO - yep. That'll be the day... I know there's a site that will predict the dew points for the day...

    http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=80902

    That's, of course, for Colorado Springs. If you look on the right side, there's a link to hourly information for each day. Click on that, and there's a neato graph that shows humidity AND dew point. :D Kathymack posted that in the humidity vs. dew point thread from yore.

    17May09GlenEyriecrop-1.jpg

    Hair is best when wabi-sabi.
    2b/2c at this length, more 3a when shorter
    M/C ii

    Mod CG: Sept 08
    Using: Suave co-wash, GVP Conditioning Balm, Lustrasilk OOC, MGA, BRHG
    Humectants: @ dew point 40+
    My blog for dry climate curlies and growing out a pixie: Colorado Curly
  • redcelticcurlsredcelticcurls Posts: 17,502Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Personally, I feel that relative humidity does not matter as much with hair as dew point does.

    Dew point cannot be higher than the actual air temperature. So, if it is a rainy 40 degree day, the relative humidity may be near 100%, which would make some think that it is humid. But, the dew point cannot be above 40 at that point, so it won't feel humid the way a hot summer day in the southeast will. The air temperature just isn't high enough to allow for a high dew point.

    I think what bothered me the most was WHY. WHY is it that this is true, and WHY does it matter? Then it hit me (I think, LOL)! I'm an elementary school teacher, and we're currently talking about the water cycle and weather. As the air temperature increases, that allows for more water molecules to be held in the air, am I right? (Weather is definitely NOT my teaching strength, LOL! :silent: Give me planetary motion and eclipses any day...)

    Essentially, yes. The air can only hold its temperature worth in water. If there is a high dew point, and the temperature cools too much, you see dew, or fog and whatnot.

    http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gh)/guides/maps/sfcobs/dwp.rxml

    http://www.wmur.com/askthemeteorologist/2920693/detail.html

    I put in a couple of interesting links that are strictly weather related. No hair. :)

    The graph/chart is just something I made up this morning while typing, but I feel somewhat comfortable with it to use as a beginning guideline. I hope to hear more input from the werstern curlies because I base it on my experience as an eastern curly, and by what I read here. We do seem to have more eastern curlies actively posting though.

    If enough of us give input, the chart can be tweaked.

    It's not unlike the humidity graph on the nc homepage, but I am guessing that it is more relative humidity based. I may be wrong. It wasn't working for me right now, so I couldn't check.

    I'm glad that the info was useful. I worried that I couldn't explain it clearly. I have a predeliction for run-on sentences. Combine that with explaining science, and there can be trouble!

    I think the planetary system is quite cool! I get so excited to see an eclipse, lol.
    Kiva! Microfinance works.

    Med/Coarse, porous curly.
  • ReddishRocksReddishRocks Posts: 779Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Personally, I feel that relative humidity does not matter as much with hair as dew point does.

    Dew point cannot be higher than the actual air temperature. So, if it is a rainy 40 degree day, the relative humidity may be near 100%, which would make some think that it is humid. But, the dew point cannot be above 40 at that point, so it won't feel humid the way a hot summer day in the southeast will. The air temperature just isn't high enough to allow for a high dew point.

    I think what bothered me the most was WHY. WHY is it that this is true, and WHY does it matter? Then it hit me (I think, LOL)! I'm an elementary school teacher, and we're currently talking about the water cycle and weather. As the air temperature increases, that allows for more water molecules to be held in the air, am I right? (Weather is definitely NOT my teaching strength, LOL! :silent: Give me planetary motion and eclipses any day...)

    Essentially, yes. The air can only hold its temperature worth in water. If there is a high dew point, and the temperature cools too much, you see dew, or fog and whatnot.

    http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gh)/guides/maps/sfcobs/dwp.rxml

    http://www.wmur.com/askthemeteorologist/2920693/detail.html

    I put in a couple of interesting links that are strictly weather related. No hair. :)

    The graph/chart is just something I made up this morning while typing, but I feel somewhat comfortable with it to use as a beginning guideline. I hope to hear more input from the werstern curlies because I base it on my experience as an eastern curly, and by what I read here. We do seem to have more eastern curlies actively posting though.

    If enough of us give input, the chart can be tweaked.

    It's not unlike the humidity graph on the nc homepage, but I am guessing that it is more relative humidity based. I may be wrong. It wasn't working for me right now, so I couldn't check.

    I'm glad that the info was useful. I worried that I couldn't explain it clearly. I have a predeliction for run-on sentences. Combine that with explaining science, and there can be trouble!

    I think the planetary system is quite cool! I get so excited to see an eclipse, lol.

    Thanks for the reply - I found the second link especially useful. I'm constantly telling my students - We learn Math so we can do Science! No one ever asked me why we do Science... and now I know. We do Science so we can do our HAIR! :D

    The dew point was atrociously low earlier this week. I mean, single digits and I even saw a negative in there. :puker: I'm going to try to make a habit of watching the dew point, and I'll report back if I have any interesting findings. :)

    17May09GlenEyriecrop-1.jpg

    Hair is best when wabi-sabi.
    2b/2c at this length, more 3a when shorter
    M/C ii

    Mod CG: Sept 08
    Using: Suave co-wash, GVP Conditioning Balm, Lustrasilk OOC, MGA, BRHG
    Humectants: @ dew point 40+
    My blog for dry climate curlies and growing out a pixie: Colorado Curly
  • SunshineGrrlSunshineGrrl Posts: 3,823Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Again, I'm late to the party but I'm going to throw my 2 cents in anyway. I live in Utah and have my whole life, so I've never known anything but arid weather. Here is what I've discovered as my products that consistently work well for me.

    The DevaCurl line work okay, but I only saw waves out of them. Now that I've gone more natural (not completely), my hair is more like 3a instead of 2b/2c/with a little 3a thrown in now and again.

    I love shampoo bars. They are by far the best thing for me ever to have tried. I don't always do an ACV rinse. I'm just too lazy some days. Didn't notice much difference one way or another.

    I also love the KBB products. I end up using more than recommended. I use about 4 pumps of the milk as a rinse-out and about 1 1/2-2 pumps of the nectar as a leave-in. I left my Cream up in Seattle and it won't be back here until Tuesday, so I don't have any experience to add to that.

    I also use Nature's Gate conditioners for a switch-up.
    For stylers I like [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/AG-Recoil-p-24.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=ag-hair-cosmetics-recoil-curl-activator]re:coil[/buylink], Alagio Crazy Curl Balm, [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Kinky-Curly-Curling-Custard-p-778.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=kinkycurly-curling-custard]KCCC[/buylink], Set it Free, and occasionally use Angell and ArcAngell with B-Leave In.

    For DT's I like [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Mop-Top-Deep-Conditioner-p-719.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=moptop-deep-conditioner]Moptop Deep Conditioner[/buylink], Deva Heaven in Hair, Biolage (or knockoff) Conditioning Balm, Joico (or knockoff) KPak Reconstructor (I use this only for a protein treatment, not a DT, but beware, this has mineral oil, so you will have to shampoo it out. I just love what it does to my hair so much I deal with having to shampoo.

  • CurlykeyCurlykey Posts: 1,540Registered Users Curl Novice
    Lunacurl wrote: »
    My hair used to be a solid 3b when I lived on the East Coast. Corkscrew and Botticelli curls *easy*. But now, living in dry Colorado, my hair is simply wavy at best. It's really disappointing. I've tried plopping, various gels, creams, diffusing upside down, not diffusing, etc, etc. I'm at my wits end.

    Is there anyone in the same situation who has a solution? Which products do you use? Which routine do you use? I would really, REALLY appreciate it!!

    Never in my wildest dreams would I think I would ever say this, but I MISS the humidity.

    Thank you!!



    Hello! I also live in Colorado. I have noticed a huge difference in my hair since going cg. I am currently using shampoo bars from chagrin valley and totally loving them! I usually condish after washing and then do a leave in and gel.. Hope this helps!
    $5 off first order at iherb use code KEY066
  • ReddishRocksReddishRocks Posts: 779Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Curlykey wrote: »
    Hello! I also live in Colorado. I have noticed a huge difference in my hair since going cg. I am currently using shampoo bars from chagrin valley and totally loving them! I usually condish after washing and then do a leave in and gel.. Hope this helps!

    Yay! Another Colorado Curly! :D What conditioner, leave-in and gel are you using?

    Edit: DUH, in your signature! Do you think the LVPNG is enough?? I can't decide... :)

    17May09GlenEyriecrop-1.jpg

    Hair is best when wabi-sabi.
    2b/2c at this length, more 3a when shorter
    M/C ii

    Mod CG: Sept 08
    Using: Suave co-wash, GVP Conditioning Balm, Lustrasilk OOC, MGA, BRHG
    Humectants: @ dew point 40+
    My blog for dry climate curlies and growing out a pixie: Colorado Curly
  • DEL2CDEL2C Posts: 6,418Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Lunacurl wrote: »
    Although PA does not get as dry as what the west does, I think this is quite important. It matters more for me in the summer.

    Personally, I feel that relative humidity does not matter as much with hair as dew point does.

    Dew point cannot be higher than the actual air temperature. So, if it is a rainy 40 degree day, the relative humidity may be near 100%, which would make some think that it is humid. But, the dew point cannot be above 40 at that point, so it won't feel humid the way a hot summer day in the southeast will. The air temperature just isn't high enough to allow for a high dew point.

    From anecdotal evidence I've seen here and from personal experience, curls seem to like dew points in the 40s-50s. When dew points hit the mid 60s (what most people would consider "sticky" for comfort purposes) people will start noticing high-humidity frizz, which could be more accurately called high dew point frizz.

    Dew points in the 30s will be ok for some, and too dry for other curlies, who start noticing limp curls from the dryness. From the low 30's and down, the air is very dry, and most will notice some loss of curl.

    Right now, the dew point in Boulder is 12, which is extremely dry. Dew points like this can really cause serious curl loss. Moisture is key in this type of climate, and most will have to experiment to see how they can add and reatin moisture in their hair.

    If it were me, I'd play with aloe & oil combos. One to give moisture, and oils to retain it. But, I live in the east, so my advice is worth little when it comes to real life application of low dew points.

    I used to want to be a meteorologist, so I do get dew points. :)

    If I had to make it simple, I'd start with these guidelines

    Dew point mid 30's and below - more moisture, less humectants. Find a balance between appropriate moisture and overconditioning.

    Dew points 40-50's into low 60s. Opitmal curl formation. Easier maintenance and can balance moisture and humectants.

    Dew points mid 60's and up. Humectants as tolerated, thought they can backfire for some in extreme high dew points. Generalloy, less moisture is needed than for the low dew points.

    Of course, no curly guidlines hold true for all curlies, so YMMV.

    This is absolutely PHENOMENAL information!!! Thank you SO MUCH!!! When I first started reading your post I thought it would go way over my head, but as I read on I understood thanks to your excellent description. No wonder my curls have turned into waves at best. Darn dew point! Now I know what to keep an eye on and hope for 40's and 50's dew point days. And in the meantime I'll have to moisturize and seal.

    I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. Thank you!! :notworthy:
    ITA- I really DIDN'T want to have to understand this :laughing7: It seemed way to complicated and my obsession with hair is already out of control. I think understanding this info will actually HELP to be LESS obsessed in a way because it actually explains WHY products seem to stop working. In reality, it may not be the products themselves just user error in reaching for the wrong stuff at the wrong time.

    THANK YOU RCC!!! I will be watching the DEW and I've saved your simple explanation cuz it's gonna take a while for me to memorize this!!
    Discovered CG 2007

    2C Fia BSL/Thick/Med-Coarse/Low(crown)-Normal Porosity Protein and Oil Sensitive

    Link-Spritz & Condish Washing:glasses7:

    I'm aCurlJunkieJunky :love4:

    My hair LOVES Coconut DESPISES Soap Bars :tongue6:


    CJRehab or H&B Fix, Deva NO POO, EO Rose & Cham POO & Condish, CJ CurlFix, CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB, SS FHG, KCCC, BRHG, AG Mousse Gel, ACV Rinses,Shikakai Conditioning Hair Rinse.
  • LunacurlLunacurl Posts: 150Registered Users
    Curlykey wrote: »
    Lunacurl wrote: »
    My hair used to be a solid 3b when I lived on the East Coast. Corkscrew and Botticelli curls *easy*. But now, living in dry Colorado, my hair is simply wavy at best. It's really disappointing. I've tried plopping, various gels, creams, diffusing upside down, not diffusing, etc, etc. I'm at my wits end.

    Is there anyone in the same situation who has a solution? Which products do you use? Which routine do you use? I would really, REALLY appreciate it!!

    Never in my wildest dreams would I think I would ever say this, but I MISS the humidity.

    Thank you!!



    Hello! I also live in Colorado. I have noticed a huge difference in my hair since going cg. I am currently using shampoo bars from chagrin valley and totally loving them! I usually condish after washing and then do a leave in and gel.. Hope this helps!

    Thank you!! I've been CG since 2002, so I shutter to think what my hair would be like in Colorado if I wasn't CG. :wink:

    I haven't used any of the poo bars that everyone seems to be talking about. I think I'll have a look at the chagrin valley you recommend. I'm always up for trying new products!!:toothy7:
    CG since 2002
    True 3b, but looser curls since moving to drier climate. BSL thick, medium-course hair with some 2C/3a on canopy. Curlygirl since 2001. Devachan client NYC from 2001-2005.

    -co-wash w/Devacurl No-Poo or Suave conditioner
    -condition Deva One Condition or GVP Balm
    -i never use a leave in
    -style with KCCC or Angell or Devacurl Styling Cream
    **likes: everything above. dislikes: glycerin, BRHG, KBB**
  • CurlykeyCurlykey Posts: 1,540Registered Users Curl Novice
    I am using L'oreal vive pro nutri-gloss condish for long/wavy hair. I use the generic of sebastian potion #9 as a leave in, and I am using the biotera gel but also like the HEBE....I just bought some aloe vera gel and am thinking of making my own gel--flaxseed and jojoba....I'll let you know how it turns out (it may take me a while to post )
    $5 off first order at iherb use code KEY066
  • CurlykeyCurlykey Posts: 1,540Registered Users Curl Novice
    Curlykey wrote: »
    Hello! I also live in Colorado. I have noticed a huge difference in my hair since going cg. I am currently using shampoo bars from chagrin valley and totally loving them! I usually condish after washing and then do a leave in and gel.. Hope this helps!

    Yay! Another Colorado Curly! :D What conditioner, leave-in and gel are you using?

    Edit: DUH, in your signature! Do you think the LVPNG is enough?? I can't decide... :)
    Have you tried the LVPNG? Yes it is definitely enough for me....sometimes I leave some of it in and still add the other leave-in.
    $5 off first order at iherb use code KEY066
  • ReddishRocksReddishRocks Posts: 779Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Curlykey wrote: »
    Curlykey wrote: »
    Hello! I also live in Colorado. I have noticed a huge difference in my hair since going cg. I am currently using shampoo bars from chagrin valley and totally loving them! I usually condish after washing and then do a leave in and gel.. Hope this helps!

    Yay! Another Colorado Curly! :D What conditioner, leave-in and gel are you using?

    Edit: DUH, in your signature! Do you think the LVPNG is enough?? I can't decide... :)
    Have you tried the LVPNG? Yes it is definitely enough for me....sometimes I leave some of it in and still add the other leave-in.

    I have tried it a few times, but then I got my KBB stuff. I'm reeeeeally coarse and dry right now, so I'm looking for serious moisture at the moment. I just bought Lustrasilk Olive Oil Cholesterol treatment... gonna give that a shot as a DT tonight. Guess we'll see! :geek:

    17May09GlenEyriecrop-1.jpg

    Hair is best when wabi-sabi.
    2b/2c at this length, more 3a when shorter
    M/C ii

    Mod CG: Sept 08
    Using: Suave co-wash, GVP Conditioning Balm, Lustrasilk OOC, MGA, BRHG
    Humectants: @ dew point 40+
    My blog for dry climate curlies and growing out a pixie: Colorado Curly

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