CurlTalk

I'm pretty sure my hair hates the CG method

:cry: So what do I do now? It's awful, I am losing hair (and I don't have a lot to spare anyways), the last 5-6 inches are just tangles and no amount of conditioner helps (I think I need my brush back), I still don't have any definition to my curls, and it is all dry and crunchy.

It's really depressing. Ever since I started getting interested in taking proper care of my hair (about a year and a half ago) the only thing that has improved was the length. Otherwise the quality has been shot to hell.

Are there just some people who can't do this? I tried going back to my old routine but it hates that now too. I really am stuck.
Forget not that the earth delights to feel your bare feet and the winds long to play with your hair. ~Kahlil Gibran
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Comments

  • whatsercurlwhatsercurl Posts: 4,049Registered Users
    It would be helpful to understand how long you've been CG, what routine and products you are using.
    Current Products: CJ Products: CF, DF, CT, SG, AFG, CIAB AND CK is back!
    Current Experiment: S&C by D

    Curl Fix and Daily Fix are my HGs :love4:


    Sulphate and cone free since July 2007

    wavy/curly fine texture/medium porosity/medium-low density

    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2Fwhatsercurl%2F" class="Popup

    PW: wavycurly

    Seek not to change the world. Rather seek to change your mind about the world.
  • peacepleasepeaceplease Posts: 54Registered Users
    YES, YES,YES!!! It is completely possible that the CG method does not work for you. I can honestly say that it doesn't work for me either. SInce I have been CG my hair has had very few nice days and almost zero 2nd day hair. When I was a modified curly I had far better days and frequent 2nd days. Before giving up cones and sulfates I actually had bouncy curly soft hair. I washed every 3 or 4 days and still had really nice hair. I might have had to clairify every 2 wks or so. Now though I have one good day and the next day is a bust unless I rewet and apply more product and then cross my fingers and hope that I didn't overload on stuff. Not to mention my hair feels drier now that I have gone without some cones and I have more fly aways then ever inspite of everything I do to prevent them.
    I think that some people have really good luck as a CGer and yeah for them. I don't happen to be one of those people. I felt like a failure too because of that but no more. My hair is my hair and I do what I know is best and what works!! and sometimes that included a cone or two.
    Why don't you try clairifing and DTing your hair and give it some time and moisture. That is what I had to do and still do.
    Good luck and don't be hard on yourself. You will find what is bets for you and your hair even if it includes 'cones and sulphates.
    Have a good day and don't forget to vote!!:love1:
    2b/2c--moderate porosity--normal elasticity,very coarse though, prone to puffy hair and frizz if not careful, colored and highlights. HATES: Glycerin, Wheat proteins .
    Wash: L'oreal Ever Pure , Herbal Essence (Mod.CGer), VO5 condish

    Condish: Matrix Conditioning Balm, Elucence, Terax Crema, Clairol ColorSeal
    Leave In: KCKT
    Stylers: KCCC, Paul Mitchell Styling Foam, HESMU
    HOLY GRAILS: Alterna Straightening Balm, PM Sculpting Foam, AC vinegar :toothy10:
  • kat180kat180 Posts: 6,280Registered Users
    There is nothing wrong with using shampoos and cones if it works for you. However before you give up completely why dont you tell us what products you are using and your routine-maybe its a simple problem that can be solved. Any pictures of your hair would be great too!
  • KelpieCurlsKelpieCurls Posts: 15Registered Users
    I wash on a daily basis but I don't use tons of shampoo, just enough to clean the scalp. I haven't brushed in a while now and detangeling in the shower even with loads of conditioners results in lots and lots of shedding. My products vary quite a bit, I don't have one thing I use daily because my hair changes to often.
    I use Suave Daily Clarifying shampoo, BioInfusion Organics Strengthen and repair shampoo and conditioner, V05 moisture milks conditioner, Herbal Essences moisturizing conditioner, Dove Daily moisture therapy.

    What I use depends on how my hair is acting.

    This was when I didn't really care about my hair, it was shorter, had better definition and was much thicker. I have lost quite a big of hair since this!
    Kestrel_3.jpg

    Maybe a month after starting to care (ex. oiling, leaving it up a lot, gentler brushing)
    Photo6.jpg


    These are pictures from today, about a year after the last one. I plop my hair every morning but I can't let it finish drying down or it will get frizzy and have loads of knots. After I take it out of the towel it goes up into a bun/twist/knot of some form to protect it all. These pictures were taken after about an hour of having my hair down, so it is now back up.
    DSCN0054.jpg

    DSCN0049.jpg

    These pictures are very different from how it would look if I let it dry down and didn't put it up. Unfortunately I don't have one of those. For me this would be a great hair day if it would stay like that all day long but it doesn't, if I were to leave it down it would eventually just be a fluffy mass and very prone to tangles. You can also see "layers" in the last two pictures. I don't have layers but that is the hair from the base of my head, it is a lot more curly and way more crunchy that everything else and pretty short compared to the rest of it. Since I have lost so much hair the nicer hair on top can't cover the bad stuff underneath and it looks worse.
    Forget not that the earth delights to feel your bare feet and the winds long to play with your hair. ~Kahlil Gibran
  • KelpieCurlsKelpieCurls Posts: 15Registered Users
    Oh yeah, forgot:

    I have been doing CG for about a month but I have been growing out my hair and getting more interested in caring for it for about a year now. I am a member of the Long Hair Community forums. So I don't think I am a total newbie to it but I things aren't going as smoothly as I would like.
    Forget not that the earth delights to feel your bare feet and the winds long to play with your hair. ~Kahlil Gibran
  • newcurlynewcurly Posts: 1,310Registered Users
    If you are washing your hair daily (even your scalp) you aren't CG. You need to at least go to a low-poo (Suave clarifying is VERY harsh) and then extend the interval between shampoos - every other day, then twice a week, then once a week.

    Most of the Herbal Essences conditioners have 'cones, I believe (but some of them are being reformulated and may not in the next few months). The Hello Hydration Moisturizing conditioner has cyclopentosiloxane (the WORST cone) in it.

    You probably need to start over and re-read about WHAT going curly girl is. Here's a start: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/showthread.php?t=14702

    Also, you aren't using any styling products? Most people need at least some.
    "Well I love that dirty water. Oh, Boston, you're my home!"
  • KelpieCurlsKelpieCurls Posts: 15Registered Users
    I have tried not washing daily and I can't find a way to make it work. I really can't see my self getting up to a week between washings. I workout almost everyday and not washing after that would really leave me stinky and feeling like crud. The most I can get to is every other day, past that everything gets oily, kinda waxy and my scalp gets gunky.

    I have been trying to keep away from cones (I know they are really bad for curlies) but they are the only thing that allow me to detangle the knots. Other conditioners just don't have the slip to get everything out. I know they are bad but if someone can recommend a conditioner that has slip and no cones I am all ears.

    No I don't use styling products, I don't really know what kinds to look for and finding one is hard (and it doesn't help that there are so many it just makes my head spin!). Either they are too drying or to thick. Besides, don't they just make build up?
    Forget not that the earth delights to feel your bare feet and the winds long to play with your hair. ~Kahlil Gibran
  • kat180kat180 Posts: 6,280Registered Users
    From the routine and product you have listed, you aren't cg. I can see why you might be having some problems- for two main reasons, shampooing your hair everyday is going to really dry it out, plus hardly anyone gets away without some sort of styler to tame the frizz. I agree with the newcurly has said, to phase out the shampoo slowly, using one that is not as harsh, and try out co-washing in between. You dont want to co-wash everyday however, every 3rd day is about right for most people. Suave natural conditioners or VO5 moisture milks are popular ones for this. If you get a little greasy from co-washing (it can take time to adjust-your scalp is used to all your natural oils being stripped by shampoo and over-produces) a few drops on lemon juice in the conditioner will fix it. Dont worry about loosing hair when you co-wash/shampoo I always loose loads on these days, but now loose hardly any on other days when I just condition and style. Once your hair gets in better conditioner it shouldn't shred as much, I rake through conditioner everyday and I barely loose any hair.

    There are loads of conditioners mentioned on here, it shouldn't be to hard to find one that is easy for you to get hold of that is cg. I'd limit your products at first so you can work out whether one is working for you or not.

    As for stylers-most curlies need a gel to control the frizzies, once the hair is completely dry you scrunch out the nasty crunchy feel and should be left with soft bouncy curls. Aagin, there are loads of recommendations on this site. I personally make the Homemade Flaxseed gel, very very cheap and natural.
  • kat180kat180 Posts: 6,280Registered Users
    Conditioners that have good slip- Vo5 has a nice slip, Karen's Body Beautiful apparently has very good slip and is great for de-tangling, [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Kinky-Curly-Knot-Today-p-207.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=kinkycurly-knot-today-leaveindetangler]Kinky Curly Knot Today[/buylink]. There will be loads more but thats all I can think of for now.

    Stylers you have to get the right ones, some can build up-some are also very drying because they have alcohol in. I personally find all shop bough gels to be drying on my hair, which is why I make the flaxseed gel, which is really moisturizing. As you make it yourself you can play with how thick you want it. I scrunch it into soaking wet hair.

    You may also benefit from a honey rinse-my hair loves this, a little honey in a jug of water poured over the hair and left in (I do it right before using gel)-it helps with frizz and gives great shine. Some people find it only works for them in summer. Again it is all about trial and error, it took me a while to find out what works best with my hair.
  • whatsercurlwhatsercurl Posts: 4,049Registered Users
    I agree with kat and newcurly. The shampooing daily is most likely drying your hair. I understand if you're currently using products with cones that you would need shampoo to remove them and prevent the buildup that occurs.

    I work out almost every day and do not co-wash my hair more than once a week. And I sweat - ALOT! I have not had an issue with the oil or sweat and I have oily skin. But my hair is dry so the extra oil gets distributed through my hair. This doesn't work for everyone but many have success cutting back to co-washes every 3 day or so. When I started CG, I co-washed alot. But gradually cut back over the course of a year.

    I love Kenra which has a lot of slip and is very moisturizing (probably a little too moisturizing for my hair actually) but it's probably a little more expensive than many other conditioners that would work fine.

    Any of the Sauve Naturals I have also have good slip properties. Recently, because it takes 20 min or more in the shower to detangle, I've been finger detangling dry. I'm sure this is a no-no but my hair is incredibly tangled only doing it once a week.

    Botticellibabe had a thread a while back looking for a product with good slip. I think she found something but I don't recall what. She also detangles her hair with an Ouchless brush while dry.
    Current Products: CJ Products: CF, DF, CT, SG, AFG, CIAB AND CK is back!
    Current Experiment: S&C by D

    Curl Fix and Daily Fix are my HGs :love4:


    Sulphate and cone free since July 2007

    wavy/curly fine texture/medium porosity/medium-low density

    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2Fwhatsercurl%2F" class="Popup

    PW: wavycurly

    Seek not to change the world. Rather seek to change your mind about the world.
  • MimsTXMimsTX Posts: 3,482Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    You should stalk Botticelli Babe's posts. She has similar issues with tangles, and was mod-CG for awhile though I think she's back to full CG now. Maybe PM her and ask what kind of products she would reccomend, I'm sure she wouldn't mind helping.

    If I shampooed every day and didn't put any products in, I don't even want to THINK what my hair would look like. it'd be frightening. if yours looks as good as it does after all that, the right products should really do wonders on your hair. Cg-friendly products won't build up either... they're water soluable, and rinse out when you wash :)

    And keep in mind... just because you're not using shampoo doesn't mean you're not washing. Conditioner can cleanse just as well as shampoo, if you use it right :)
    CG/Mod CG (soap bars) since 8/12/08
    CO wash/Cond: Kathymack & Flowermoon Castille soap bars, V05 Chamomile Tea, Suave Ocean Breeze, Biolage Conditioning Balm
    Styling loves: DIFFUSING! CK, KCNT, KCCC, FOTE (on dry hair only), Re:coil, Proclaim gel
    Not sure about: Boots, Tweek, KBB Milk, DMHJ
    HATE: plopping, FOTE on wet hair, BRHG
  • BoomygrrlBoomygrrl Posts: 4,940Registered Users
    CO washing is a very effective way of washing your hair...and it doesn't require harsh shampoo. I like to use VO5 conditioner to CO wash my hair...there is a thread on how to CO wash hair here...can someone link it to her? Not sure where I saw it. I think it's in the Going Shampoo-less sub-forum. Anyways, I CO wash my hair a few times a week...but you can CO wash everyday if you need to. You can use your shampoo for days when you need to clarify your hair (due to product build up...usually once every two weeks...more or less depending on your hair).
    I use a shampoo without sulfates occasionally to wash my hair in between my CO washes...just to make sure I"m getting my hair clean. It's a gentle shampoo.

    Conditioners without dimethicone, amodimethicone, cyclopentasiloxane, etc are good in conditioning your hair. Read up on 'cones and 'xanes to see what to avoid.

    You can successfully use the CG method, but you need to educate yourself on what all is involved in it.

    Psst...I brush/comb my hair. It's okay to use conditioner in the shower and comb your hair with it....then rinse it and voila...soft, tangle free hair.

    Hope that helps!!!
    That's right, I said it! I wear scrunchies!!

    I am a sulfate washing, cone slabbing, curly lovin' s.o.b. The CG police haven't caught me yet.
    :blob8:

    3a/3b
  • kat180kat180 Posts: 6,280Registered Users
    Boomygrrl wrote: »

    Psst...I brush/comb my hair. It's okay to use conditioner in the shower and comb your hair with it....then rinse it and voila...soft, tangle free hair.

    Just be aware that sometimes doing this can lead to frizz- I have quite tight ringlets, but if I comb at all I loose them all and get a big tangled frizzy mess! Yep thats right- I get MORE tangles when I brush/comb even when wet!

    Hey. No one said this was easy! :tongue5:
  • KelpieCurlsKelpieCurls Posts: 15Registered Users
    Thanks for all your help guys!

    I thought a modified CG routine was plopping, lots of conditioner, no brushing and letting it dry down, so what is a real modified CG routine like, cause that's what I thought I was doing.

    I know conditioner can clean, I've done CO washes in the past, but that and not washing everyday still freaks me out. For those of you who do workout do you just let the sweat dry or do you do a rinse in plain water? What do you DO with your hair on days you don't wash? I know it is called second day hair for a reason but if I just bounced out of bed and started going my hair would look pretty bad, how do you style it on no wash days?
    Forget not that the earth delights to feel your bare feet and the winds long to play with your hair. ~Kahlil Gibran
  • MimsTXMimsTX Posts: 3,482Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    sorry! Somewhere along the line i missed where you said you were mod-cg versus CG. That's what I get for reading the title and not reading the rest very carefully >.<

    Mod-cg would be someone who uses a low-poo (coco-betaine or similar detergents that don't strip like SLS does). Really, that's the only difference. Some who clarify on a semi-regular basis (once or twice a month) might call themselves mod too.
    CG/Mod CG (soap bars) since 8/12/08
    CO wash/Cond: Kathymack & Flowermoon Castille soap bars, V05 Chamomile Tea, Suave Ocean Breeze, Biolage Conditioning Balm
    Styling loves: DIFFUSING! CK, KCNT, KCCC, FOTE (on dry hair only), Re:coil, Proclaim gel
    Not sure about: Boots, Tweek, KBB Milk, DMHJ
    HATE: plopping, FOTE on wet hair, BRHG
  • mrl234mrl234 Posts: 548Registered Users
    I recommend trying to go CG - without sulfates and silicones - for awhile. Give it a chance, see how it works, and if after a few weeks you're still having issues, you can go back to your previous methods. Go ahead and clarify-shampoo one more time to get rid of silicones, then try to find a light conditioner to co-wash with as well as possibly a thicker moisturizing conditioner and a light styling product both without silicones. You shouldn't overwhelm your hair with products, especially when starting out, but a light one can help define/defrizz.

    I was really skeptical, too, and I had some issues because I didn't realize that the first conditioner I tried had silcones in it and had to start over a couple times. I figured out what I was doing, though, and my hair has begun to improve considerably. My hair and scalp have always been dry, so cowashing every few days works for me, but if you think you need something a little stronger than conditioner, consider shampoo bars, which are a lot less harsh since they don't have sulfates.

    The CG method doesn't work for everyone's curls, but it's definitely worth a shot.
    :happy10:
    fia 2C/3A-F-iii, sensitive to some proteins
    CGish since 10-16-08
    Low-poo: Yes to Carrots Daily Pampering Shampoo (1-2x/week)
    Rinse outs: Yes to Carrots Pampering Mud Conditioner
    Styling: a little bit of leave in and a little bit of KCCC, diffusing
    Olive oil DTs, honey rinses in the summer :)
  • whatsercurlwhatsercurl Posts: 4,049Registered Users
    Thanks for all your help guys!

    I thought a modified CG routine was plopping, lots of conditioner, no brushing and letting it dry down, so what is a real modified CG routine like, cause that's what I thought I was doing.

    I know conditioner can clean, I've done CO washes in the past, but that and not washing everyday still freaks me out. For those of you who do workout do you just let the sweat dry or do you do a rinse in plain water? What do you DO with your hair on days you don't wash? I know it is called second day hair for a reason but if I just bounced out of bed and started going my hair would look pretty bad, how do you style it on no wash days?

    If I feel my scalp is gross I might water wash but I've typically not had a problem. Even in the middle of summer. I do an almost pineapple when I work out so I think a lot of the sweat makes it down my neck and back. Yes I know that's TMI. :laughing6:

    On non-wash days, I pineapple the night before. Your hair is so long you'd probably be better off doing a plopped pineapple (once again Botticellibabe is an authority on that) to keep from crushing your curls. I just take my pineapple down, dampen my hair, smooth and scrunch in some CK and/or gel and then I'm done.
    Current Products: CJ Products: CF, DF, CT, SG, AFG, CIAB AND CK is back!
    Current Experiment: S&C by D

    Curl Fix and Daily Fix are my HGs :love4:


    Sulphate and cone free since July 2007

    wavy/curly fine texture/medium porosity/medium-low density

    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2Fwhatsercurl%2F" class="Popup

    PW: wavycurly

    Seek not to change the world. Rather seek to change your mind about the world.
  • T_Curly08T_Curly08 Posts: 31Registered Users
    Im new to this site and I'm trying to learn as much as possible about my new curly hair. What does CG stand for?
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    3C/3B (ish...) hair
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Last Chemical Straightener: Sept 2007
    First Big Chop: May 2008
    Next cut: September 2008 (1 inch)
    Last Chop: January 2009
    YAY NO MORE RELAXED ENDS!!!!

    Right now I'm all about henna/indigo! Just LOVE my new super dark hair!
    :wav:
  • whatsercurlwhatsercurl Posts: 4,049Registered Users
    There are more acronyms around here than you can shake a stick at. Here's the sticky with a lot of them.

    http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/showthread.php?t=58468

    ETA: Oops and CG stands for Curly Girl ... the method described in the first post in the Going Shampooless forum.
    Current Products: CJ Products: CF, DF, CT, SG, AFG, CIAB AND CK is back!
    Current Experiment: S&C by D

    Curl Fix and Daily Fix are my HGs :love4:


    Sulphate and cone free since July 2007

    wavy/curly fine texture/medium porosity/medium-low density

    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2Fwhatsercurl%2F" class="Popup

    PW: wavycurly

    Seek not to change the world. Rather seek to change your mind about the world.
  • T_Curly08T_Curly08 Posts: 31Registered Users
    omg Thank you! you just answered about 50 of my first questions!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    3C/3B (ish...) hair
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Last Chemical Straightener: Sept 2007
    First Big Chop: May 2008
    Next cut: September 2008 (1 inch)
    Last Chop: January 2009
    YAY NO MORE RELAXED ENDS!!!!

    Right now I'm all about henna/indigo! Just LOVE my new super dark hair!
    :wav:
  • kat180kat180 Posts: 6,280Registered Users
    I have never managed 2nd day hair. I always shower and condition my hair every morning.
  • CBETHCBETH Posts: 23Registered Users
    1
  • CBETHCBETH Posts: 23Registered Users
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  • ReddishRocksReddishRocks Posts: 779Registered Users
    Thanks for all your help guys!

    I thought a modified CG routine was plopping, lots of conditioner, no brushing and letting it dry down, so what is a real modified CG routine like, cause that's what I thought I was doing.

    I know conditioner can clean, I've done CO washes in the past, but that and not washing everyday still freaks me out. For those of you who do workout do you just let the sweat dry or do you do a rinse in plain water? What do you DO with your hair on days you don't wash? I know it is called second day hair for a reason but if I just bounced out of bed and started going my hair would look pretty bad, how do you style it on no wash days?

    Okay, modified CG in MY mind (and others may have other opinions) are people who don't just co-wash. The CG method really advocates getting rid of sulfates and 'cones, and I think it's safe to say you're "CG" if you've done that, but I think saying "modified' helps clear up some confusion. I use soap bars to wash with. They don't have sulfates/harsh detergents. I get to lather and feel like I'm cleansing, LOL! Still, I only wash every 2-3 days.

    I'm an Irish stepdancer - extreme workouts, LOL! I time my washings around my practice schedule. Yep. Just gotta suck it up and do it. And conditioner DOES clean just fine. You can put all the soap and detergent you want on your hair, but if you don't SCRUB, you're not doing any good. It's just like how we teach kids to wash their hands - soap may help, but it's the scrubbing that counts!

    For second day hair, I spray my 50/50 mix of water and gel into my hair, scrunch, and pin up my roots. I let it dry, then crunch it out. Nope, doesn't look as good as day 1, but life must go on. :D Search for BoticelliBabe's post on how she pins/clips her roots.

    One month on the CG method isn't nearly enough time to tell whether or not your hair will like it, in my opinion. I'm on month 2.5, and I'm only now really seeing the awesome benefits. I read that it can take up to 6 months for your curls to firmly establish.

    If you choose not to go CG, you're not a "failure" or any other idea that might be floating in your head! :) :) I hope it works for you only because it has worked so well for me!

    17May09GlenEyriecrop-1.jpg

    Hair is best when wabi-sabi.
    2b/2c at this length, more 3a when shorter
    M/C ii

    Mod CG: Sept 08
    Using: Suave co-wash, GVP Conditioning Balm, Lustrasilk OOC, MGA, BRHG
    Humectants: @ dew point 40+
    My blog for dry climate curlies and growing out a pixie: Colorado Curly
  • marinacurlzmarinacurlz Posts: 1,720Registered Users
    Homemade flaxseed gel-

    2 tablespoons of flaxseeds
    1 cup water
    Boil for ten minutes
    Pour mixture through a strainer.
    Once cooled, place in airtight container in fridge for up to a week.

    Some people add aloe vera gel, or essential oil to the gel.
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2FTLGuerrero%2F" class="Popup

    password: curly

    3B w/3A underneath

    Medium texture
    Average porosity

    Crazy-picky hair; likes some oils and proteins, but not others, can tolerate some glycerin.

    Current products-
    Co-wash: Suave/Vo5/TJ Refresh
    Rinse out & Leave in: Suave Tropical Coconut/Garnier Triple Nutrition
    Gel: Herbal Essences Set Me Up/Aussie Tizz No Frizz
  • BotticelliBabeBotticelliBabe Posts: 1,574Registered Users
    Oooh wow - you were pointed to me? Little ol' me? I'm honored! Let's see if I can do anything to help.

    First, let me say that not everybody can do CG - myself included - so don't feel like a failure for that. I think my hair is just too long to be truly CG, and the old ends still have a lot of "baggage". So, I now use bars on my hair (castile, handmade, organic, or even just sulfate free), along with ACV or plain white vinegar rinses once a week to combat buildup. I don't use sulfates anymore - even when I'm clarifying, I use a low poo with coco-betaine, because that gets out as much as sulfates do, but much more gently.

    Ok, let me go through your routine and I'll just tell you what I would do. First, stop with so much shampoo - I think you're clarifying too often and stripping your hair of all it's natural oils, and that's why you're having so much trouble with tangling. The sulfates are lifting the cuticle of your hair and you're not sealing or shutting them back down, and then when your hair dries, the little scales act like velcro and just stick to each other rather than sliding. If you MUST poo, use a diluted vinegar rinse before getting out of the shower to shut your cuticles back down and help with the tangling issue, and rinse that out with cold water (also helps to shut the cuticle down).

    Second, I think you need more moisture than the VO5 is giving you. Try L'oreal Vive Pro Nutri Gloss for medium to long hair that's wavy or curly - for many of the curlies who have tried it, it detangles REALLY well, and the detangling effect lasts long after the hair is dry. Plus, it has no cones (unless you're in the UK or Australia, then you need to get the treatment in the jar rather than the conditioner). We have a pretty big but rather informative thread going about it that you might want to read.

    http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/showthread.php?t=58875

    And like whatsercurl said, I brush. Dry. I have to. But I do it carefully, and only before showering or wetting my hair - not to style, unless I'm about to wear it up, or else it encourages tangling. I use a Goody Ouchless paddle brush, and I seriously only lose maybe 20-30 hairs each time I do it. Now, I also use a Denman brush in the shower when my hair is drenched in conditioner, and then once more after my final rinse just before I get out of the shower. This helps to keep the tangles out while I put my product in, and it dries much smoother and clumpier this way. Also, seriously consider using that L'oreal Nutri Gloss conditioner as a leave in - just smooth a little (maybe a quarter sized glob for you) through your dripping wet hair before you get out of the shower and brush it through. It sounds like you really need the added moisture.

    Next, you really need to try a styler. I know a lot of them are gooey and thick, but sometimes that's just what you need. :compress: What I finally found was L'oreal Lightheaded Melting Gel - it's a little runnier than most gels, but it has slip, which only one other styler that I've used has...and that's not even a real styler - it's KY jelly. Yes, the LUBE. Sheesh - it better have slip! *rofl* But while the KY has slip, it doesn't have hold, so keep that in mind if you want to try it. I use the Wal Mart generic stuff because it's only $1.75 for 4 oz. Now, the melting gel does have a PEG/PPG modified cone in it, but that makes it water soluble, so it's safe for CG.

    Put your gel in VERY wet (nearly dripping) hair, and scrunch a little upward from the bottom, making a fairly tight fist and squeezing a few times until you hear a "gooshing" sound. That's the gel mixing with the water in your hair, and it helps distribute it evenly. Do this until your entire head has been "gooshed" up to the roots. That's how you keep from having some sections that are crunchy and crisp, and others just underneath it or next to it that are bone dry and frizzy.

    Ok, pineapple. This is easy, actually - it's a really high, loose ponytail on top of your head that you put in just before going to bed, and it's to protect your curls from your pillow while you sleep. Your head looks like a pineapple with your hair being the leafy top. :geek: I started plopping my pineapples when I realized my hair was just too damn long (my pineapple always flops over to one side or the other), and I found out by accident that it really enhances my end curl. All I do is put my pineapple in, then wet the ends either with plain water or a refresher spray, scrunch (or brush and scrunch, depending on how tangled I am that day), and then plop into a breatheable cap before bed (there are pics of this in my fotki in the deviations album to help you understand how I do it). The next morning, I take it all down, shake, and voila! My hair is done! If you don't believe me, look at my sig pics. Those three pics are all second day hair from a plopped pineapple, and they are the same pics I took the morning I did my plopped pineapple pics for my fotki. I didn't even have a mirror. :tongue5:

    Ok, I'll stop there for now, and let you absorb all of that. It'll give me a chance to get some sleep while you decide if you want to ask any questions I've not yet managed to cover. ;)
    BB

    35ncsigpic-vi.jpg
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.BotticelliBotanicals.etsy.com" class="Popup
    BSL/Mid Back, thick 3a/b

    Botticelli Botanicals Meringue
    Botticelli Botanicals Smoothie
    Botticelli Botanicals Styling Mudd w/ double avocado oil and double agave
    Botticelli Botanicals Lime in the Coconut Butter
  • kat180kat180 Posts: 6,280Registered Users
    Homemade flaxseed gel-

    2 tablespoons of flaxseeds
    1 cup water
    Boil for ten minutes
    Pour mixture through a strainer.
    Once cooled, place in airtight container in fridge for up to a week.

    Some people add aloe vera gel, or essential oil to the gel.

    What she said lol!
  • KelpieCurlsKelpieCurls Posts: 15Registered Users
    BotticelliBabe, thanks for all the great information!! I now have some new things for my shopping list.:tongue5:

    I'm still a little confused about pineapple plopping but I'm going to look around and see if I can find any step by step directions with pictures. :thumright:
    Forget not that the earth delights to feel your bare feet and the winds long to play with your hair. ~Kahlil Gibran
  • BotticelliBabeBotticelliBabe Posts: 1,574Registered Users
    BotticelliBabe, thanks for all the great information!! I now have some new things for my shopping list.:tongue5:

    I'm still a little confused about pineapple plopping but I'm going to look around and see if I can find any step by step directions with pictures. :thumright:

    No problem! If you check my fotki under the deviations album, I have some pics of my hair in the morning as I take out the plopped pineapple - maybe that will help you to see it being deconstructed. :smile:

    Let me know if you have any more questions - I'm here to help!
    BB

    35ncsigpic-vi.jpg
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.BotticelliBotanicals.etsy.com" class="Popup
    BSL/Mid Back, thick 3a/b

    Botticelli Botanicals Meringue
    Botticelli Botanicals Smoothie
    Botticelli Botanicals Styling Mudd w/ double avocado oil and double agave
    Botticelli Botanicals Lime in the Coconut Butter
  • BoomygrrlBoomygrrl Posts: 4,940Registered Users
    Although sulfate is contributing to your hair problem, before trying these new suggestions (which are excellent, by the way!!!), you will need to do one last wash with your sulfate shampoo to get out any cones and other build-up...you want to start with a fresh slate. Then, after you wash with the harsh shampoo, condition with the Nutrigloss or other cone-free conditioner...and then from there on, you can go CG (or modified if you want to use water soluble cones...those are the kind that wash out with conditioner). Good luck with all that and hope it works. Again, if it doesn't...don't worry, you're not a failure. You'll find threads from many curlies who "rebelled" (LOL) against the CG method and they can also provide you tips...that's if you plan to go to the dark side bwahahaha.
    That's right, I said it! I wear scrunchies!!

    I am a sulfate washing, cone slabbing, curly lovin' s.o.b. The CG police haven't caught me yet.
    :blob8:

    3a/3b
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