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Photo ID to vote - thoughts?

eche428eche428 Posts: 2,782Registered Users Curl Neophyte
I was listening to MPR (Minnesota Public Radio) yesterday and they were talking about a movement here by some group to institute showing a picture ID to vote. I don't really know much if anything about this and was wondering what you all think of the idea. I know that some are against it because they say it disenfranchises low income and elderly voters.

I don't understand how we can have a national security computer system that works to safeguard critical government information but we don't have a system that is equally safe for our votes. Seems like our votes are as vital to our security as anything.

Why do you think showing ID disenfranchise voters? And how could a system like this be structured to help citizens/legal voters obtain picture IDs so voting can be more controlled?
< member since 2006 (no idea where 1969 came from :toothy10:).

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Comments

  • YolyCYolyC Posts: 3,758Registered Users
    We have to show a picture Id here in Chicago. Honestly I think it's a good idea. If, the DMV can verify all the person's info. As for the cost. Here an ID is 20.00 and is valid for 5 years. Maybe have some program set up to pay for it. Say seniors get them for free and low income folks can get them at a discount.


    Don't people need Id's and such to apply for SSI, public assistance or to cash checks? We do here. I'm wondering what identification is acceptable in other parts of the country?
    Location: Chicago

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    "If you don't stand for something you will fall for anything."
    Malcolm X
  • geminigemini Posts: 3,325Registered Users
    I don't have a problem with the concept of a national I.D. but I've already experienced the "everyone must have an I.D. card" thing after being in the military.
  • eche428eche428 Posts: 2,782Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I think if we could set it up as a public service/not for profit type of thing it could create jobs because we'd need someone to manage it and maintain the program. It would be a great way to help people that would have trouble obtaining ID. My MIL who's paralyzed and doesn't drive but needs pic ID for certain things. She's OK because she had us to help her get to the DMV. Not everyone has that ability.

    It would help to speed things along at polling places and add another layer of safety for people that want to steal our votes.

    What are the downsides?
    < member since 2006 (no idea where 1969 came from :toothy10:).

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  • scrillsscrills Posts: 6,700Registered Users
    Downsides?
    • Homeless
    • If you move (and your ID on your address doesn't match the book, you move to provisional"
    • More provisional ballots means more ppl needed to verify the results, delaying results
    • Some states are pushing those who voted provisionally to come back with ID
    • What happens if you loose ur ID
    • Passports don't count as valid ID (they don't have ur address on them)
    • Requiring ID does not prevent fake IDS (the whole purpose of the program)
    • We have a bad history when it comes to adding "extra layers" in order to vote
  • geminigemini Posts: 3,325Registered Users
    I'm going to play devil's advocate--
    • Homeless
    How would this be a factor any more than it is now? You need a current address to register. How many homeless people are registered to vote? How many do vote? This seems like a more general issue that an I.D. card would not really effect.
    • If you move (and your ID on your address doesn't match the book, you move to provisional"
    If you move to a new state and don't register in time, you still vote provisional. It is on you to change your own record. If you are responsible enough to vote, you should be responsible enough to change your information. People do this now.
    • More provisional ballots means more ppl needed to verify the results, delaying results
    I don't see how there would be more provisional ballots with an I.D. vs. what we have now.
    • Some states are pushing those who voted provisionally to come back with ID
    Big deal?
    • What happens if you loose YOur ID
    Get a new one (much like getting a new driver's license)
    • Passports don't count as valid ID (they don't have YOur address on them)
    Okay (sow hat?)? And also not everyone has a passport.
    • Requiring ID does not prevent fake IDS (the whole purpose of the program)
    I'm guessing people checking them will be able to recognize fake IDs. you need an I.D. for plane travel and that is for security reasons.
    • We have a bad history when it comes to adding "extra layers" in order to vote
    I can see this point to a degree, but where do you draw the line? Voting is a right, but it comes with rules like anything else. I don't think this is *that* big of a deal. i don't see the outrage when someone needs a driver's license to drive or a passport to travel internationally. Those are "rights" too but they require ID's as well.
  • eche428eche428 Posts: 2,782Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    scrills wrote: »
    Downsides?
    • Homeless
    • If you move (and your ID on your address doesn't match the book, you move to provisional"
    • More provisional ballots means more ppl needed to verify the results, delaying results
    • Some states are pushing those who voted provisionally to come back with ID
    • What happens if you loose ur ID
    • Passports don't count as valid ID (they don't have ur address on them)
    • Requiring ID does not prevent fake IDS (the whole purpose of the program)
    • We have a bad history when it comes to adding "extra layers" in order to vote

    NOT trying to argue with you, scrills, because I do find this a very interesting idea. Just tossing out thoughts So, that said:

    Let's say we could set up a non-profit that could manage this.

    1) Couldn't the homeless be allowed to use the address of the non-profit as an address? Do you not have to have a SS to get any benefits? The registration could be tied to that number. That way you could vote without having a personal address.

    2) Could there be a provision that if you move your vote goes with you as long as you re-register within a certain number of hours before the election? If this was a national computerized system then you could do what MN allows which is same day registration at the polls. Works really well here and you aren't provisional.

    3) If it was computerized then the database would verify you immediately. For instance: we moved from CO to MN. Once we registered with MN CO's system new we were hear and can't vote there.

    4) If you lose your ID? Hmmm, don't know what to do about that one.

    5) If you have a Passport didn't you have to show some kind of ID to get it? I can't remember it's been too long since I applied for mine.

    6) You're right, people could use a fake ID. But how do people register to vote if you don't have ID to begin with? A Current utility bill with your address on it? But couldn't you be paying a utility bill but be illegal? How else would you get registered?

    I understand the bad history and would hate to see going back to those horrible old days. We cannot let that happen. I was just thinking that there must be some way to create a stable, safe, updated system that would ensure that no one's vote could be stolen.
    < member since 2006 (no idea where 1969 came from :toothy10:).

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  • geminigemini Posts: 3,325Registered Users
    I was just thinking that there must be some way to create a stable, safe, updated system that would ensure that no one's vote could be stolen.

    This is how I feel too. I know this is paranoid, but I feel unsettled that there isn't any kind of tracking system for votes. Sure, I vote, I get my sticker and drive away, but who really knows if it actually counted.
  • eche428eche428 Posts: 2,782Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    gemini wrote: »
    I was just thinking that there must be some way to create a stable, safe, updated system that would ensure that no one's vote could be stolen.
    This is how I feel too. I know this is paranoid, but I feel unsettled that there isn't any kind of tracking system for votes. Sure, I vote, I get my sticker and drive away, but who really knows if it actually counted.

    Exactly! I feel this way and I'm white. I can't imagine how someone who's not white must feel right now. I know I'm repeating myself but I don't understand how we can safeguard other critical government information but can't seem to tackle this one. That's why I'm thinking if there was a non-profit, non-governmental, inclusive type organization that was nation wide and computerized we could take out all the partisan fear that exists in our voting process. I never again want to go through what we have in the past. I hate that I fear for this election, both for people's rights but also for their safety. If we knew it was a safe and fair system that seems like it would take a lot of the rancor out of the process.
    < member since 2006 (no idea where 1969 came from :toothy10:).

    [FONT=&quot]Med/high porosity; color treated; med [FONT=&quot]d[/FONT]ensity 2c/3a.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Summer: (high dew point) co-wash [FONT=&quot]& leave-in [/FONT]Matrix Biolage Cleansing Conditioner for Curly Hair[FONT=&quot]. [/FONT]Ouidad Climate Control Heat & Humidity Gel.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Spring and Fall: (perfect dew point) co-wash & leave-in Curl Junkie Repair Me! or [FONT=&quot]CJ [/FONT]BeautiCurls Strengthening Hair Conditioner; f[FONT=&quot]ollo[/FONT]wed by [FONT=&quot]CJ Pattern Pusha & [/FONT]Curl Queen.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot] W[/FONT]inter: (low dew point) add in [FONT=&quot]CJ [/FONT]Coffee-Coco Curl Creme Lite[FONT=&quot].[/FONT][/FONT]
  • geminigemini Posts: 3,325Registered Users
    gemini wrote: »
    I was just thinking that there must be some way to create a stable, safe, updated system that would ensure that no one's vote could be stolen.
    This is how I feel too. I know this is paranoid, but I feel unsettled that there isn't any kind of tracking system for votes. Sure, I vote, I get my sticker and drive away, but who really knows if it actually counted.

    Exactly! I feel this way and I'm white. I can't imagine how someone who's not white must feel right now. I know I'm repeating myself but I don't understand how we can safeguard other critical government information but can't seem to tackle this one. That's why I'm thinking if there was a non-profit, non-governmental, inclusive type organization that was nation wide and computerized we could take out all the partisan fear that exists in our voting process. I never again want to go through what we have in the past. I hate that I fear for this election, both for people's rights but also for their safety. If we knew it was a safe and fair system that seems like it would take a lot of the rancor out of the process.

    To me it's not a race related thing, but I get what you mean. The truly disadvantaged are new voters who are completely unfamiliar (and sometimes intimidated) with the process. I don't want to see any extra votes being counted, I don't want my vote or anyone else's discarded and I don't want to see false information being spread. I just want it to be a fair process. It shouldn't be difficult in theory, but when there's power involved, people can do some pretty corrupt things on both sides.
  • YolyCYolyC Posts: 3,758Registered Users
    gemini wrote: »
    I was just thinking that there must be some way to create a stable, safe, updated system that would ensure that no one's vote could be stolen.
    This is how I feel too. I know this is paranoid, but I feel unsettled that there isn't any kind of tracking system for votes. Sure, I vote, I get my sticker and drive away, but who really knows if it actually counted.


    I'm confused are saying you want your vote linked to your id?


    Here we show our ID sign in in the book and then get a long sheet. Once we vote, we feed our own ballot into this scanner like counter. At the end of the day all those votes are downloaded. Our picture ID is just to show we really are joe blow living at 123 main st.
    Location: Chicago

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    "If you don't stand for something you will fall for anything."
    Malcolm X
  • geminigemini Posts: 3,325Registered Users
    YolyC wrote: »
    gemini wrote: »
    I was just thinking that there must be some way to create a stable, safe, updated system that would ensure that no one's vote could be stolen.
    This is how I feel too. I know this is paranoid, but I feel unsettled that there isn't any kind of tracking system for votes. Sure, I vote, I get my sticker and drive away, but who really knows if it actually counted.


    I'm confused are saying you want your vote linked to your id?


    Here we show our ID sign in in the book and then get a long sheet. Once we vote, we feed our own ballot into this scanner like counter. At the end of the day all those votes are downloaded. Our picture ID is just to show we really are joe blow living at 123 main st.

    I just want a record that I voted--basic count, but not specifically how I voted. Voting in my area is completely computerized. I guess the only record would be the paper at the voting site where I signed my name.
  • mad scientistmad scientist Posts: 3,530Registered Users
    We require photo ID and confirmation of address to vote in Canada. If you don't have a drivers license, you can use a passport + utility bill (something with your address on it). If you don't have any ID, you can have someone come with you and sign a "testament to your identity".

    We had the lowest turnout ever for our last election (60%) and some speculate that it was because all of these rules having recently been put in place. I can see the validity of having the rules, but there needs to be better organization in educating people beforehand and having systems set up for those who may not easily meet all the requirements.
  • YolyCYolyC Posts: 3,758Registered Users
    gemini wrote: »
    YolyC wrote: »
    gemini wrote: »
    This is how I feel too. I know this is paranoid, but I feel unsettled that there isn't any kind of tracking system for votes. Sure, I vote, I get my sticker and drive away, but who really knows if it actually counted.


    I'm confused are saying you want your vote linked to your id?


    Here we show our ID sign in in the book and then get a long sheet. Once we vote, we feed our own ballot into this scanner like counter. At the end of the day all those votes are downloaded. Our picture ID is just to show we really are joe blow living at 123 main st.

    I just want a record that I voted--basic count, but not specifically how I voted. Voting in my area is completely computerized. I guess the only record would be the paper at the voting site where I signed my name.


    Aha, got it. That's how the early voting thing is here. It was my first time using that machine and I didn't like either. My choices show up on the side of the screen and then I don't know where. I made a comment to my daughter about it.

    Personally, I like the paper ballots. I like that if the computer malfunctions they could be hand counted. Hanging chads or not it's better than nothing.
    Location: Chicago

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    "If you don't stand for something you will fall for anything."
    Malcolm X
  • geminigemini Posts: 3,325Registered Users
    Personally, I like the paper ballots. I like that if the computer malfunctions they could be hand counted. Hanging chads or not it's better than nothing.

    I feel the same way. No matter how techie our society is getting, I don't think we will ever get rid of paper entirely.
  • curlyjenn10curlyjenn10 Posts: 2,034Registered Users
    I don't see it as an "extra layer to vote." I think if someone is voting in our presidential election, they should be able to prove that they're actually citizens of this country.
  • MarMar Posts: 3,003Registered Users
    My son makes it a point never to show his ID-it is NOT the law here-and they roll thier eyes and make him sign a little slip of paper.
    He is such a smart-ass
    "what's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?"



    "If you judge people,you have no time to love them"
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  • redcelticcurlsredcelticcurls Posts: 17,502Registered Users
    I don't see it as an "extra layer to vote." I think if someone is voting in our presidential election, they should be able to prove that they're actually citizens of this country.

    I agree with this. But, I am too am colored by military experience and used to having an ID for everything.
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  • scrillsscrills Posts: 6,700Registered Users
    We require photo ID and confirmation of address to vote in Canada. If you don't have a drivers license, you can use a passport + utility bill (something with your address on it). If you don't have any ID, you can have someone come with you and sign a "testament to your identity".

    We had the lowest turnout ever for our last election (60%) and some speculate that it was because all of these rules having recently been put in place. I can see the validity of having the rules, but there needs to be better organization in educating people beforehand and having systems set up for those who may not easily meet all the requirements.

    I agree. This is something that has to be really thought out. I look at it as another layer to vote, that requires another agency, more rules, etc

    No need to apologize, I was just giving you some thoughts from the other side. I just happened to be listening to NPR that morning and someone from the Board of Elections was on.



    More thoughts....
    - if you barely had time to make it to polls the first time, what makes you think people are going to show back up again if they forgot their IDS

    - If you move, you have 6 months to update your ID. if that time occurs during an election and you've re-registered at ur new address, you have to vote provisionally

    - If ur homeless, an ID may not be ur #1 priority. #2, you have no address for your ID

    - What if you loose your ID on Election Day? or the week before?

    - you do not need an ID to travel. you can travel without but it requires extra screening (think about those who loose their wallets on vacation)

    - what if you get out of jail the day before the election and aren't able to get an ID in time?

    - What if you turn 18 on election day?

    - According to the lady on the radio, voter fraud is not an issue as bad registrations don't result in double votes
  • geminigemini Posts: 3,325Registered Users
    if you barely had time to make it to polls the first time, what makes you think people are going to show back up again if they forgot their IDS

    --it is on them. And perhaps those who don't return have the option to fill out a provisional ballot under the condition that they return to the polling place (or local with their ID (maybe within 24 hours)

    - If you move, you have 6 months to update your ID. if that time occurs during an election and you've re-registered at ur new address, you have to vote provisionally

    You already have to do this in today's system if your address is not updated.


    - If ur homeless, an ID may not be YOur #1 priority. #2, you have no address for your ID

    I'm guessing if you're homeless, VOTING may not be your first priority either.

    - What if you lose your ID on Election Day? or the week before?

    Replace it. I don't see this being an extensive process like getting a passport, more like a driver's license where you go in and walk out with a new I.D.

    - you do not need an ID to travel. you can travel without but it requires extra screening (think about those who loose their wallets on vacation)

    -Okay, why can't the "extra screening" apply to voters too? Having an ID just makes the process easier.

    - what if you get out of jail the day before the election and aren't able to get an ID in time?

    -Far fetched, but I'm guessing there is a transition period for people getting out. What if you get out of jail the day before the election (with our current system)? Registration cut off was weeks ago.

    - What if you turn 18 on election day?

    How is this any different than the current system? Give IDs to people who will be eligible by election day. Not a big deal. 17 YO's who will be 18 by the time of the general election can vote in primaries.

    - According to the lady on the radio, voter fraud is not an issue as bad registrations don't result in double votes

    Of course--the "lady on the radio." :) No, but people might cast votes in multiple juristictions if someone's clever enough.

    Again, I don't see how an extra check (I.D.) would vastly change the current system as is. Many of your examples are applicable to today's system or else they're reaching.
  • MichelleBFTMichelleBFT Posts: 4,812Registered Users
    I don't have a very strong opinion on this issue, but I did just want to share that this thread inspired me to double check the laws in my county. I moved last year, and while I'm in the same state I switched counties. I've changed my address but have not gotten a new drivers' license yet, and have (of course) lost my change of address card from the DMV. I've even gotten a new voter registration card.

    It didn't occur to me until last week or so that if I"m asked for photo ID when I vote (I can't remember if that's the case in Maryland) my ID and my voter reg card would have different addresses, and based on that I could be put on provisional. But I checked the laws in my county and confirmed my suspicion that a pay stub or utility bill with the correct name and address will be sufficient.

    So... yeah. Thanks.
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  • geminigemini Posts: 3,325Registered Users
    gemini wrote: »
    Personally, I like the paper ballots. I like that if the computer malfunctions they could be hand counted. Hanging chads or not it's better than nothing.
    I feel the same way. No matter how techie our society is getting, I don't think we will ever get rid of paper entirely.

    Maryland is going back to paper after this election.
  • redcelticcurlsredcelticcurls Posts: 17,502Registered Users
    Have any of you Americans here ever voted *without* showing an ID? Aside from when I voted absentee, I haven't, so I wonder why this seems so new or redundant.
    Kiva! Microfinance works.

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  • YolyCYolyC Posts: 3,758Registered Users
    I don't have a very strong opinion on this issue, but I did just want to share that this thread inspired me to double check the laws in my county. I moved last year, and while I'm in the same state I switched counties. I've changed my address but have not gotten a new drivers' license yet, and have (of course) lost my change of address card from the DMV. I've even gotten a new voter registration card.

    It didn't occur to me until last week or so that if I"m asked for photo ID when I vote (I can't remember if that's the case in Maryland) my ID and my voter reg card would have different addresses, and based on that I could be put on provisional. But I checked the laws in my county and confirmed my suspicion that a pay stub or utility bill with the correct name and address will be sufficient.

    So... yeah. Thanks.


    I checked mine too, and found out legally I don't have to show an photo ID, unless I'm voting early. I swore it was the law. I don't have a problem showing it, so it's not a big deal.
    Location: Chicago

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    "If you don't stand for something you will fall for anything."
    Malcolm X
  • geminigemini Posts: 3,325Registered Users
    When voting, I'm always asked to show my driver's license.
  • MarMar Posts: 3,003Registered Users
    This year's primary election was the first time I have ever been asked to show my ID.
    "what's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?"



    "If you judge people,you have no time to love them"
    -Mother Theresa
  • MizKerriMizKerri Posts: 1,701Registered Users
    Have any of you Americans here ever voted *without* showing an ID? Aside from when I voted absentee, I haven't, so I wonder why this seems so new or redundant.

    I have never been asked for my ID when voting.
    Location: Southern NH

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  • eche428eche428 Posts: 2,782Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I've never had to show ID except for the first time I registered in MN when I moved here form another state. We have same day registration and if you don't have ID you can bring a utility bill or a registered neighbor that will vouch for you in writing.
    < member since 2006 (no idea where 1969 came from :toothy10:).

    [FONT=&quot]Med/high porosity; color treated; med [FONT=&quot]d[/FONT]ensity 2c/3a.[/FONT]

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  • Gemini13Gemini13 Posts: 5,000Registered Users
    I don't have a very strong opinion on this issue, but I did just want to share that this thread inspired me to double check the laws in my county. I moved last year, and while I'm in the same state I switched counties. I've changed my address but have not gotten a new drivers' license yet, and have (of course) lost my change of address card from the DMV. I've even gotten a new voter registration card.

    It didn't occur to me until last week or so that if I"m asked for photo ID when I vote (I can't remember if that's the case in Maryland) my ID and my voter reg card would have different addresses, and based on that I could be put on provisional. But I checked the laws in my county and confirmed my suspicion that a pay stub or utility bill with the correct name and address will be sufficient.

    So... yeah. Thanks.

    Yeah, I'm in the same position- I moved and never changed the address on my ID. But my voter reg. card has my new address on it. I'll bring along a utility bill just in case, but I doubt it will be an issue because:
    Have any of you Americans here ever voted *without* showing an ID? Aside from when I voted absentee, I haven't, so I wonder why this seems so new or redundant.

    I've never been asked for any kind of ID. We'll see if that's the case at my new polling site.
    Brooklyn, NY

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  • curlyjenn10curlyjenn10 Posts: 2,034Registered Users
    Have any of you Americans here ever voted *without* showing an ID? Aside from when I voted absentee, I haven't, so I wonder why this seems so new or redundant.

    I haven't either. I voted during the midterm elections, the primaries, and then today. They take my ID, enter some info, then print out my access code for the computer and a sticker with my name and address. Then I initial to say I showed my ID and sign below the sticker before moving on to the voting machines.
  • CottonCandyCurlsCottonCandyCurls Posts: 344Registered Users
    I posted this in another thread but "Mexico requires every voter to prove citizenship and eligibility by presenting a federally issued Mexican voter ID card that bears the voter's picture, fingerprint, a holographic image to prevent tampering and a barcode. This is a very simple and elegant solution. And the Democratic party would most likely oppose it."
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