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CottonCandyCurls

MichelleBFTMichelleBFT Posts: 4,812Registered Users
You said,
As I said before it's problematic that blacks overwhelmingly vote Democratic but that is another topic.

Well, now it's another thread, too. Let's talk about why you believe it's "problematic" that the Black population overwhelmingly votes for Democrats.
"And politically correct is the worst term, not just because it’s dismissive, but because it narrows down the whole social justice spectrum to this idea that it’s about being polite instead of about dismantling the oppressive social structure of power.
Fun Fact: When you actively avoid being “PC,” you’re not being forward-thinking or unique. You’re buying into systems of oppression that have existed since before you were even born, and you’re keeping those systems in place."
Stolen.
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  • A_la_Nap-turalA_la_Nap-tural Posts: 409Registered Users
    How funny, I just responded to that comment in the last post... This is what I said:

    To Cotton Candy...

    Why would blacks overwhelmingly voting democratic be a problem? Maybe they see that as the party that best handles and recognizes their own needs? 4% of blacks are republicans and I'm sure they see their party as suiting their own needs. Perception is only reality to he who wants to perceive just that. In other words, IMO, the whole "blacks vote for Obama because he's black" thing is propaganda to undermine the intelligence of blacks... like we've got scratch and sniff ballots or something... (scratch here for vanilla and here for chocolate :dontknow:).

    Maybe you don't believe this... but just like perception, if you adamantly post about something, we can't help but believe that you're under this assumption as well.
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  • PoodleheadPoodlehead Posts: 6,959Registered Users
    I agree that it IS problematic.

    It is also problematic that women overwhelmingly vote Democrat.

    Why is the Republican party primarily designed for just one demographic? And why are they still so successful in spite of alienating so many?
    Minneapolis, MN
  • MimsTXMimsTX Posts: 3,482Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    How funny, I just responded to that comment in the last post... This is what I said:

    To Cotton Candy...

    Why would blacks overwhelmingly voting democratic be a problem? Maybe they see that as the party that best handles and recognizes their own needs? 4% of blacks are republicans and I'm sure they see their party as suiting their own needs. Perception is only reality to he who wants to perceive just that. In other words, IMO, the whole "blacks vote for Obama because he's black" thing is propaganda to undermine the intelligence of blacks... like we've got scratch and sniff ballots or something... (scratch here for vanilla and here for chocolate :dontknow:).

    Maybe you don't believe this... but just like perception, if you adamantly post about something, we can't help but believe that you're under this assumption as well.

    lmao, I'm sorry... just had to comment on how hilariously ridiculous i found that.
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  • mad scientistmad scientist Posts: 3,530Registered Users
    I think that its problematic that entire demographics of people feel that they aren't represented by a particular party. That party needs to reevaluate the message that it is sending out. Its particularly problematic in a 2 party system like the US.

    I can't speak for blacks in the US, but I can speak as an non-white/non-Christian American. I will never EVER vote Republican after this whole issue of targeting Obama because he might be a Muslim. It tells me that within the Republican party, if you are not white and Christian then you are second-class, worthy of distrust and quite possibly a terrorist. I don't want to be associated at all with that kind of thinking, whether it comes from the party itself or from supporters of the party. They want your vote, but they don't actually want you taking any sort of visible/influential role in the country.

    Its sad because lots of non-white, non-Christians are fiscally conservative, want less influence of government on their lives. But most of the people I know who fit this bill, will still not vote Republican because there is that underlying distrust.
  • A_la_Nap-turalA_la_Nap-tural Posts: 409Registered Users
    MimsTX wrote: »
    lmao, I'm sorry... just had to comment on how hilariously ridiculous i found that.

    I must admit, I stole that from the Chris Rock Special: Kill the Messenger... But it was fitting don't you think?
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  • lacunaCoilslacunaCoils Posts: 489Registered Users
    I wish we had another successful party that wasn't either one extreme or the next. If only the Independant "party" could be taken seriously so people actually vote for them.
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  • MimsTXMimsTX Posts: 3,482Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I wish we had another successful party that wasn't either one extreme or the next. If only the Independant "party" could be taken seriously so people actually vote for them.

    AMEN!

    I'm very 'moderate'. My opinion on various issues really varies between being 'conservative', 'liberal' or somewhere in the middle. It's always a crap shoot for me, voting-wise in an election. No one's ever really a very good fit for what i'm looking for.

    Still, I'd rather not throw my vote away on someone that i know won't get elected...
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  • KindaWavyKindaWavy Posts: 383Registered Users
    I find it discouraging that any person, group, sex, or race bases their vote solely on which party a candidate represents.
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  • KindaWavyKindaWavy Posts: 383Registered Users
    MimsTX wrote: »
    I wish we had another successful party that wasn't either one extreme or the next. If only the Independant "party" could be taken seriously so people actually vote for them.

    AMEN!

    I'm very 'moderate'. My opinion on various issues really varies between being 'conservative', 'liberal' or somewhere in the middle. It's always a crap shoot for me, voting-wise in an election. No one's ever really a very good fit for what i'm looking for.

    Still, I'd rather not throw my vote away on someone that i know won't get elected...


    ITA with both posters.
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    Shampoo bars w/Organic ACV rinses
    KBB milk wash out, Super Silky leave-in
    Donna Marie CCB, KCCC, FSG, and Cocoa Hemp Buttercream to scrunch the crunch.

    2C/3A, slightly past BSL.
  • A_la_Nap-turalA_la_Nap-tural Posts: 409Registered Users
    MimsTX wrote: »
    I wish we had another successful party that wasn't either one extreme or the next. If only the Independant "party" could be taken seriously so people actually vote for them.

    AMEN!

    I'm very 'moderate'. My opinion on various issues really varies between being 'conservative', 'liberal' or somewhere in the middle. It's always a crap shoot for me, voting-wise in an election. No one's ever really a very good fit for what i'm looking for.

    Still, I'd rather not throw my vote away on someone that i know won't get elected...

    Darn tootin'! I'm a bit of a conservative liberal if that makes sense. I'm conservative in making decisions for myself, but I realize that not everyone feels the same way. I usually vote in a way that will allow me to choose what's best for me without imposing on others. Like in the case of abortion... I might not do it, but that doesn't mean that I should vote that you're deemed a criminal if you do it.
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  • MimsTXMimsTX Posts: 3,482Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    MimsTX wrote: »
    I wish we had another successful party that wasn't either one extreme or the next. If only the Independant "party" could be taken seriously so people actually vote for them.

    AMEN!

    I'm very 'moderate'. My opinion on various issues really varies between being 'conservative', 'liberal' or somewhere in the middle. It's always a crap shoot for me, voting-wise in an election. No one's ever really a very good fit for what i'm looking for.

    Still, I'd rather not throw my vote away on someone that i know won't get elected...

    Darn tootin'! I'm a bit of a conservative liberal if that makes sense. I'm conservative in making decisions for myself, but I realize that not everyone feels the same way. I usually vote in a way that will allow me to choose what's best for me without imposing on others. Like in the case of abortion... I might not do it, but that doesn't mean that I should vote that you're deemed a criminal if you do it.

    EXACTLY. Yep, we're on the same page.

    As for people voting for someone because they're a certain race/sex/religion... yeah, it bothers me to no end. I just have to trust that MOST people are at least bothering to look up the facts and know what's what before casting their vote. Still... I mean, I guess if they want to vote for someone because they think he's pretty, that's their own right. Even if it ticks me off. lol
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  • A_la_Nap-turalA_la_Nap-tural Posts: 409Registered Users
    MimsTX wrote: »
    EXACTLY. Yep, we're on the same page.

    As for people voting for someone because they're a certain race/sex/religion... yeah, it bothers me to no end. I just have to trust that MOST people are at least bothering to look up the facts and know what's what before casting their vote. Still... I mean, I guess if they want to vote for someone because they think he's pretty, that's their own right. Even if it ticks me off. lol

    I dunno... Obama is kinda cute... Maybe that swayed me a little. I'm a sucker for sexy!
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  • YolyCYolyC Posts: 3,758Registered Users
    I think that its problematic that entire demographics of people feel that they aren't represented by a particular party. That party needs to reevaluate the message that it is sending out. Its particularly problematic in a 2 party system like the US.

    <snip>

    Its sad because lots of non-white, non-Christians are fiscally conservative, want less influence of government on their lives. But most of the people I know who fit this bill, will still not vote Republican because there is that underlying distrust.


    ITA. I'd hadn't noticed how little diversity there was in the Republican party on a national level. On a local level the Republican party (at least here in Illinois) is a bit more inclusive.

    I watched the Republican convention. I was really disheartened by the lack of minorities there. I had too look really hard to find them in the crowd. It seemed like the camera would pan on the same 4-5 faces when they wanted to show some diversity.

    I didn't catch every minute of the entire convention, so I can not say there absolutely were no minority women there, but honestly I didn't see not a single one during the time I watched.
    Location: Chicago

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    "If you don't stand for something you will fall for anything."
    Malcolm X
  • CottonCandyCurlsCottonCandyCurls Posts: 344Registered Users
    I find any kind of lopsided voting problematic because people are much more complex than that. If two parties didn't dominate the system, people would be free to vote all over the map and address more specific issues. I don't fault black people for staying in their comfort zone. But it's hard to have your issues seriously addressed by a party that assumes you have nowhere else to go. I'm a black woman and I vote for Greens, Democrats, Libertarians and Republicans.
  • CottonCandyCurlsCottonCandyCurls Posts: 344Registered Users
    YolyC wrote: »
    I think that its problematic that entire demographics of people feel that they aren't represented by a particular party. That party needs to reevaluate the message that it is sending out. Its particularly problematic in a 2 party system like the US.

    <snip>

    Its sad because lots of non-white, non-Christians are fiscally conservative, want less influence of government on their lives. But most of the people I know who fit this bill, will still not vote Republican because there is that underlying distrust.


    ITA. I'd hadn't noticed how little diversity there was in the Republican party on a national level. On a local level the Republican party (at least here in Illinois) is a bit more inclusive.

    I watched the Republican convention. I was really disheartened by the lack of minorities there. I had too look really hard to find them in the crowd. It seemed like the camera would pan on the same 4-5 faces when they wanted to show some diversity.

    I didn't catch every minute of the entire convention, so I can not say there absolutely were no minority women there, but honestly I didn't see not a single one during the time I watched.

    I know a couple of black and hispanic people who specifically chose not to go to the convention because they already get harassed in their own communities for supporting McCain. It sounds silly but they just keep their political stuff to themselves. The convention really was a sea of old white men and which is also disheartening. Diversity is good. Both parties need some new solutions, ideas and people.
  • geminigemini Posts: 3,325Registered Users
    YolyC wrote: »
    I think that its problematic that entire demographics of people feel that they aren't represented by a particular party. That party needs to reevaluate the message that it is sending out. Its particularly problematic in a 2 party system like the US.

    <snip>

    Its sad because lots of non-white, non-Christians are fiscally conservative, want less influence of government on their lives. But most of the people I know who fit this bill, will still not vote Republican because there is that underlying distrust.


    ITA. I'd hadn't noticed how little diversity there was in the Republican party on a national level. On a local level the Republican party (at least here in Illinois) is a bit more inclusive.

    I watched the Republican convention. I was really disheartened by the lack of minorities there. I had too look really hard to find them in the crowd. It seemed like the camera would pan on the same 4-5 faces when they wanted to show some diversity.

    I didn't catch every minute of the entire convention, so I can not say there absolutely were no minority women there, but honestly I didn't see not a single one during the time I watched.

    I saw one black woman, but we watched every night. At the start of it, I told my husband that we were going to know every "minority" face in the crowd because the camera kept panning to them. The 36 black people there only made up 1.5% of the delegates.

    article
  • YolyCYolyC Posts: 3,758Registered Users
    [
    I know a couple of black and hispanic people who specifically chose not to go to the convention because they already get harassed in their own communities for supporting McCain. It sounds silly but they just keep their political stuff to themselves. The convention really was a sea of old white men and which is also disheartening. Diversity is good. Both parties need some new solutions, ideas and people.

    See, They should have gone. I would have loved to see more minorities there. I want to hear a minority like me tell me why they think the way they do and why they are choosing who they choose. I was willing to listen to the folks who spoke at the convention, but honestly an old, rich, suburban white man or woman can't really relate to a middle-income, minority, inner-city single mom.


    I don't care much for the Democratic party either. I like that they seem to understand the problems of the poor people. My problem with them is that they seem to think just throwing money at the problems will solve them. An even bigger problem is that the money they are throwing is my tax dollars. I wouldn't have such a problem with it if they had clear plans and there was accountability for where my money is going instead of here take this 50 million and just let me know what you're going to do with it- Oh you don't feel like it, it's ok we'll just say it's for education.
    Location: Chicago

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    "If you don't stand for something you will fall for anything."
    Malcolm X
  • YolyCYolyC Posts: 3,758Registered Users
    This is kind of a random thought but, those few blacks I saw there reminded me of Bush's nephew during the 2004 elections. I was like hey where'd he come from? Maybe it's just my issue, but I felt like they just brought him out to show us that "see we like brown people. We even have some in our family."
    Location: Chicago

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    "If you don't stand for something you will fall for anything."
    Malcolm X
  • CottonCandyCurlsCottonCandyCurls Posts: 344Registered Users
    YolyC wrote: »
    [
    I know a couple of black and hispanic people who specifically chose not to go to the convention because they already get harassed in their own communities for supporting McCain. It sounds silly but they just keep their political stuff to themselves. The convention really was a sea of old white men and which is also disheartening. Diversity is good. Both parties need some new solutions, ideas and people.

    See, They should have gone. I would have loved to see more minorities there. I want to hear a minority like me tell me why they think the way they do and why they are choosing who they choose. I was willing to listen to the folks who spoke at the convention, but honestly an old, rich, suburban white man or woman can't really relate to a middle-income, minority, inner-city single mom.


    I don't care much for the Democratic party either. I like that they seem to understand the problems of the poor people. My problem with them is that they seem to think just throwing money at the problems will solve them. An even bigger problem is that the money they are throwing is my tax dollars. I wouldn't have such a problem with it if they had clear plans and there was accountability for where my money is going instead of here take this 50 million and just let me know what you're going to do with it- Oh you don't feel like it, it's ok we'll just say it's for education.

    Well this is the comfort zone issue that works both ways. The only young black female conservative I can think of who articulates her viewpoint reasonably well is Amy Holmes. She's not from the slash and burn school of punditry that can exist on both sides of the aisle. And I think she has really cute hair. Shallow I know but she has cute little corskcrew curls.

    What I find interesting is the out there black conservatives who left the democratic party hesitate to out and out call themselves republicans even if they mostly vote for them. They are always independents or conservatives or conservative libertarians. Hmm.
  • CottonCandyCurlsCottonCandyCurls Posts: 344Registered Users
    YolyC wrote: »
    This is kind of a random thought but, those few blacks I saw there reminded me of Bush's nephew during the 2004 elections. I was like hey where'd he come from? Maybe it's just my issue, but I felt like they just brought him out to show us that "see we like brown people. We even have some in our family."

    They did and don't think he won't be back. He's affectionately known as the little brown one by Papa Bush. What's worse I actually know someone who voted for Bush solely because they thought his nephew was hot like Ricky Martin. These are the people our democracy hinges on. Haha.
  • YolyCYolyC Posts: 3,758Registered Users
    YolyC wrote: »
    This is kind of a random thought but, those few blacks I saw there reminded me of Bush's nephew during the 2004 elections. I was like hey where'd he come from? Maybe it's just my issue, but I felt like they just brought him out to show us that "see we like brown people. We even have some in our family."

    They did and don't think he won't be back. He's affectionately known as the little brown one by Papa Bush. What's worse I actually know someone who voted for Bush solely because they thought his nephew was hot like Ricky Martin. These are the people our democracy hinges on. Haha.


    Hee! Sad isn't it.

    I googled Amy Holmes. I agree, VERY cute hair. I'll read about her and see what she thinks.
    Location: Chicago

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    "If you don't stand for something you will fall for anything."
    Malcolm X
  • Myradella3Myradella3 Posts: 2,481Registered Users
    If you support a candidate, but are afraid to say so, do you really support that candidate?

    To choose not to choose is to choose.
  • AmandacurlsAmandacurls Posts: 6,252Registered Users
    Myradella3 wrote: »
    If you support a candidate, but are afraid to say so, do you really support that candidate?

    To choose not to choose is to choose.

    I think so. I've been called out for not voting for Obama several times on facebook and other places, by supposed friends of mine. I do think people should be able to keep their political leanings or the candidate of their choice to themselves if they want. I know most of us don't mind talking about the candidate we support, but it is rather nosy to demand to know who someone is voting for and why, if that person wants to keep it to themselves.

    ETA: And voting doesn't involve having to raise your hand, voting is a private matter, so why shouldn't people be able to keep that to themselves?
  • A_la_Nap-turalA_la_Nap-tural Posts: 409Registered Users
    I actually think it's best to keep your political opinion to yourself. Online blogs are fine, but in person... forget about it. Politics is a passionate subject and the discussions tend to get very heated. I, for one, don't discuss it in mixed company. I remember once i was waiting for the train and reading a political article in the paper. This lady leans over and goes, I supported Hillary because Obama doesn't have experience. Of course this was after Hillary had dropped out of the race. I had a lot of rebuttals for this lady, but I decided not to even go there. I just said politely, I've always supported Obama.
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    "And if you don't want to be down with me, you don't want to pick from my appletree."-Erykah Badu


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  • medussamedussa Posts: 12,993Registered Users
    Myradella3 wrote: »
    If you support a candidate, but are afraid to say so, do you really support that candidate?

    I've met people who are not only afraid to say who they support, but they outright lie about who they are voting for.

    The first time, it was a white school teacher who lied to me about voting for Obama. She was well informed about the issues and she sounded like she was a huge supporter--turns she's actually voting for McCain (I found out from a mutual friend who has been trying in vain, to get her to vote for Obama).

    The other incident happened this past weekend. I was at a party and one of the guests, a Latino, kept going on and on about how he was voting Obama. I found out later that he's actually voting for McCain and that he hates black people. There were 4 of us talking politics (2 staunch Republicans, me and this guy), so I'm not sure why he felt he had to lie.

    It makes me nervous that there could be lot more people like these two individuals I met. What if there is a significant amount of people lying to the pollsters or to themselves, about voting for Obama?

    I almost don't want to think about it. :cwm10:

    Edited to say that I really do think it's a personal matter, much like one's income. It's really nobody's business. But I do have a big problem with people lying about who they're voting for. Just say, "I don't want to talk politics" and call it a day.
  • wavezncurlzwavezncurlz Posts: 1,814Registered Users
    ...one reason I cannot relate to the Republican party is that they do not relate or care about me as an African American woman.

    I think this blog entry sums it up nicely

    ...that by focusing so exclusively on the needs of the Joe Plumbers and the Joe Six Packs, all those who fall outside of this category (women, people of color, non-Christians, etc) are of no value to the GOP.

    Source: /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fprincetonprofs.blogspot.com%2F2008%2F10%2Fare-you-kidding-me.html" class="Popup

    The Kitchen Table, Conversations with Dr. Melissa Harris-Lacewell, Associate Professor of Politics and African American Studies at Princeton University and Dr. Yolanda Pierce, Associate Professor of African American Religion and Literature at Princeton Theological Seminary

    Note: Harris-Lacewell is a regular on Rachel Maddow's show. I love her comments and general sensibility.
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  • CottonCandyCurlsCottonCandyCurls Posts: 344Registered Users
    medussa wrote: »
    I've met people who are not only afraid to say who they support, but they outright lie about who they are voting for.

    Edited to say that I really do think it's a personal matter, much like one's income. It's really nobody's business. But I do have a big problem with people lying about who they're voting for. Just say, "I don't want to talk politics" and call it a day.

    I've encountered the lying thing as well. Which is weird because they could just leave the subject alone. All the fake Obama supporters I've met are white men, so who knows. Maybe they are worried about being seen as racist or maybe they want to seem hip. I find the situation weird and wonder how many more fake supporters are out there. Lying is taking it too far.
  • CottonCandyCurlsCottonCandyCurls Posts: 344Registered Users
    ...one reason I cannot relate to the Republican party is that they do not relate or care about me as an African American woman.

    I think this blog entry sums it up nicely

    ...that by focusing so exclusively on the needs of the Joe Plumbers and the Joe Six Packs, all those who fall outside of this category (women, people of color, non-Christians, etc) are of no value to the GOP.

    Source: /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fprincetonprofs.blogspot.com%2F2008%2F10%2Fare-you-kidding-me.html" class="Popup

    The Kitchen Table, Conversations with Dr. Melissa Harris-Lacewell, Associate Professor of Politics and African American Studies at Princeton University and Dr. Yolanda Pierce, Associate Professor of African American Religion and Literature at Princeton Theological Seminary

    Note: Harris-Lacewell is a regular on Rachel Maddow's show. I love her comments and general sensibility.

    What are the exclusive needs of Joe the Plumber, Six Pack, Bricklayer whoever? I thought I'd find it at the article but didn't. I'll disclose that I'm not a fan of the author.
  • YolyCYolyC Posts: 3,758Registered Users
    But my question for Obama for tonight would be: why pull back from the issue of racism in the GOP campaign? Why not acknowledge that taunts of "kill him" directed to you are a throwback to the legacy of lynching in this country? Why not say that when one is labeled a terrorist or called a Muslim, it is actually code for racial slurs. We are kidding ourselves by not publicly having that part of the campaign aired and deconstructed during these debates.



    I think while Obama and a lot of us see that they are racial slurs. Obama is choosing not to focus on it at the moment. My thought is this. He takes the high road, lets them keep up their race baiting and eventually folks see through it and it back fires on the McCain Palin team.

    He's looking ahead. There is much more he could do to deal with the problem of racism in America as President than he can as the democratic nominee for president.
    Location: Chicago

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    "If you don't stand for something you will fall for anything."
    Malcolm X
  • Myradella3Myradella3 Posts: 2,481Registered Users
    You say that you support Mr. ABC but don't want people to know it for fear of criticism or retribution.

    or

    You feel your vote is private and don't choose to share.


    Are those situations the same thing?
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