CurlTalk

Columbus Day

hadtochangemynamehadtochangemyname Posts: 628Registered Users
Does anyone else find it sad that gov't workers have the day off to celebrate genocide?
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Comments

  • MichelleBFTMichelleBFT Posts: 4,812Registered Users
    Yep.
    "And politically correct is the worst term, not just because it’s dismissive, but because it narrows down the whole social justice spectrum to this idea that it’s about being polite instead of about dismantling the oppressive social structure of power.
    Fun Fact: When you actively avoid being “PC,” you’re not being forward-thinking or unique. You’re buying into systems of oppression that have existed since before you were even born, and you’re keeping those systems in place."
    Stolen.
  • WileE-DeadWileE-Dead Banned Posts: 24,963Banned Users
    What a crock...:sad11:
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    Ever since the sports thread wars I have sensed a special connection between [edit] & Wile. Like the connection oil has to water. I almost can't speak of it. Wait....my eyes are misting. ~asq
    Let’s just stay together and tell the world to kiss our ass. ~P


  • cymprenicympreni Posts: 9,609Registered Users
    What is the point of columbus day anyways? How does one celebrate columbus day besides department store sales?
  • BoomygrrlBoomygrrl Posts: 4,940Registered Users
    I wish I had the day off.
    That's right, I said it! I wear scrunchies!!

    I am a sulfate washing, cone slabbing, curly lovin' s.o.b. The CG police haven't caught me yet.
    :blob8:

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  • NYCurlyGirlyNYCurlyGirly Posts: 1,012Registered Users
    People are actually believing this re-write of history that Columbus was nothing more than a murderer? For crying out loud, no matter how liberal you are you'd think a holiday celebrating the man who made America possible wouldn't cause so much controversy.
    "Yo, James, i'm really happy for you, i'm gonna let you finish killing Bella in a minute, but Demetri was one of the best Trackers of ALL time!"

    www.myspace.com/mimichica
  • hadtochangemynamehadtochangemyname Posts: 628Registered Users
    Revisionist?

    I was reading what was written by Columbus himself, and writings from another person who was there at the time, the priest Bartolomé de las Casas.
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  • TrenellTrenell Posts: 3,562Registered Users
    a holiday celebrating the man who made America possible wouldn't cause so much controversy.

    uh what? he was LOST. STILL called the natives ALREADY THERE Indians.

    " Hmm sir? Sir? WE aren't in the Indies"
    "SO what. I'll call them Indians anyway. Now let's kill them and steal their land"
  • eche428eche428 Posts: 2,782Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Trenell wrote: »
    a holiday celebrating the man who made America possible wouldn't cause so much controversy.

    uh what? he was LOST. STILL called the natives ALREADY THERE Indians.

    " Hmm sir? Sir? WE aren't in the Indies"
    "SO what. I'll call them Indians anyway. Now let's kill them and steal their land"

    It is really weird to celebrate a guy who thought he'd landed in the Indies but instead "discovered" the Bahamas Archipeligo. After writing about how generous and gentle the local people were proceedes to claim their land for Spain, kidnaps a bunch to take back to the queen and leaves a bunch of his men behind to pillage, plunder and riddle them with syphilis. Nice guy to celebrate. (We just watched a PBS special on the guy - very informative!)
    < member since 2006 (no idea where 1969 came from :toothy10:).

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  • SarcasmIsBeautySarcasmIsBeauty Posts: 5,640Registered Users
    Columbus didn't discover a damn thing! He encountered people on an island which he thought was near India. Plan A was to search for gold, Plan B was to use the Arawaks as slaves and we all know the outcome....

    Also fyi the word caribbean means cannibal, gee how lovely!

    ETA: they first tried to use Arawaks as slaves but then Bartolomes de las Casas suggested using Africans....
    Turtles: omg please don't put that in your moo moo

    Nej: too late... moo moo has been infiltrated.
  • yagottaloveyacurlsyagottaloveyacurls Posts: 5,766Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Ugh. such a sore subject.
    I can only imagine how truly beautiful America would be if the Native Americans had been able to flourish. I wish Columbus never landed and I wish the settlers never came. And I wish I was living in a Native world...


    speaking of all of this, this is a good place to put in a plug for a great little book:
    Native Wisdom for White Minds
    You don't have to be white to have a white mind.
    What is a white mind? As Anne Wilson Schaef learned during her travels throughout the world among Native Peoples, anyone raised in modern Western society or by Western culture can have a white mind. White minds are trapped in a closed system of thinking that sees life in black and white, either/or terms; they are hierarchical and mechanistic; they see nature as a force to be tamed and people as objects to be controlled with no regard for the future.

    This worldview is not shared by most Native Peoples, and in this provocative book, Anne Wilson Schaef shares the richness poured out to her by Native Americans, Aborigines, Africans, Maoris, and others. In the words of Native Peoples themselves, we come to understand Native ideas about our earth, spirituality, family, work, loneliness, and change. For in every area of our lives we have the capacity to transcend our white minds--we simply need to listen with open hearts and open minds to other voices, other perceptions, other cultures.

    Anne Wilson Schaef often heard Elders from a wide variety of Native Peoples say, "Our legends tell us that a time will come when our wisdom and way of living will be necessary to save the planet, and that time is now." Anyone ready to move from feeling separate to a profound sense of connectedness, from the personal to the global, will find the path in this mind-expanding, deeply spiritual book.

  • SarcasmIsBeautySarcasmIsBeauty Posts: 5,640Registered Users
    Ugh. such a sore subject.
    I can only imagine how truly beautiful America would be if the Native Americans had been able to flourish. I wish Columbus never landed and I wish the settlers never came. And I wish I was living in a Native world...


    speaking of all of this, this is a good place to put in a plug for a great little book:
    Native Wisdom for White Minds
    You don't have to be white to have a white mind.
    What is a white mind? As Anne Wilson Schaef learned during her travels throughout the world among Native Peoples, anyone raised in modern Western society or by Western culture can have a white mind. White minds are trapped in a closed system of thinking that sees life in black and white, either/or terms; they are hierarchical and mechanistic; they see nature as a force to be tamed and people as objects to be controlled with no regard for the future.

    This worldview is not shared by most Native Peoples, and in this provocative book, Anne Wilson Schaef shares the richness poured out to her by Native Americans, Aborigines, Africans, Maoris, and others. In the words of Native Peoples themselves, we come to understand Native ideas about our earth, spirituality, family, work, loneliness, and change. For in every area of our lives we have the capacity to transcend our white minds--we simply need to listen with open hearts and open minds to other voices, other perceptions, other cultures.

    Anne Wilson Schaef often heard Elders from a wide variety of Native Peoples say, "Our legends tell us that a time will come when our wisdom and way of living will be necessary to save the planet, and that time is now." Anyone ready to move from feeling separate to a profound sense of connectedness, from the personal to the global, will find the path in this mind-expanding, deeply spiritual book.


    I couldn't agree more with you yagotta! It's a damn shame the Natives were virtually wiped out by the Europeans...

    That sounds like an interesting book, I'm going to look into that. Thanks for sharing
    Turtles: omg please don't put that in your moo moo

    Nej: too late... moo moo has been infiltrated.
  • yagottaloveyacurlsyagottaloveyacurls Posts: 5,766Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    That sounds like an interesting book, I'm going to look into that. Thanks for sharing

    :)
  • NYCurlyGirlyNYCurlyGirly Posts: 1,012Registered Users
    Ugh. such a sore subject.
    I can only imagine how truly beautiful America would be if the Native Americans had been able to flourish. I wish Columbus never landed and I wish the settlers never came. And I wish I was living in a Native world...


    You wish we still lived in the woods and trees with no technology, and we had stayed hunters and gatherers? Interesting...
    "Yo, James, i'm really happy for you, i'm gonna let you finish killing Bella in a minute, but Demetri was one of the best Trackers of ALL time!"

    www.myspace.com/mimichica
  • yagottaloveyacurlsyagottaloveyacurls Posts: 5,766Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Ugh. such a sore subject.
    I can only imagine how truly beautiful America would be if the Native Americans had been able to flourish. I wish Columbus never landed and I wish the settlers never came. And I wish I was living in a Native world...


    You wish we still lived in the woods and trees with no technology, and we had stayed hunters and gatherers? Interesting...

    Are you freaking kidding me?
    I hope so. Otherwise, you are seriously ignorant.
  • TrenellTrenell Posts: 3,562Registered Users
    Ugh. such a sore subject.
    I can only imagine how truly beautiful America would be if the Native Americans had been able to flourish. I wish Columbus never landed and I wish the settlers never came. And I wish I was living in a Native world...


    You wish we still lived in the woods and trees with no technology, and we had stayed hunters and gatherers? Interesting...

    OH MY GOD!
  • SuburbanbushbabeSuburbanbushbabe Posts: 15,402Registered Users
    I just enjoyed not having to slog through traffic. Does that make me shallow?
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  • hadtochangemynamehadtochangemyname Posts: 628Registered Users
    Ugh. such a sore subject.
    I can only imagine how truly beautiful America would be if the Native Americans had been able to flourish. I wish Columbus never landed and I wish the settlers never came. And I wish I was living in a Native world...


    You wish we still lived in the woods and trees with no technology, and we had stayed hunters and gatherers? Interesting...

    Some people are okay with genocide. As long is it isn't "their" people.

    I personally believe that those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it.

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    (from A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn, another great book)
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  • RheannaRheanna Posts: 2,614Registered Users
    Uhhhhh, I think what was done to the Native Americans was horrible too. I think that's just a fact. I have Cherokee ancestry and even though it has never had an impact on me, it breaks my heart to think of how some of my ancestors treated the others, ya know?

    But... I hardly think Columbus was solely responsible for all that happened. And I also won't go so far as to say I wish he had never came here. America probably would have been more beautiful, that is true. Of course, it probably wouldn't be America, and most of us would not be here. So I can't really go back and say that I wish it hadn't happened.

    I didn't realize this was such a hated holiday. I don't think any country has a purely peachy keen history. People don't acquire lands by being nice and caring. Sad but true. The entire world's history has lots and lots of rough spots, obviously.
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  • TrenellTrenell Posts: 3,562Registered Users
    Columbus set the stage. When making the natives failed, they went for Africans. Fast forward a few hundred years: there's like 7 Natives left and the blacks are still catching hell.

    To say "that how it goes" does a great injustice to the souls that where murdered enslaved and raped out of greed, racism, and fear. All most of us are saying is to accept the ENTIRE history.
  • NYCurlyGirlyNYCurlyGirly Posts: 1,012Registered Users
    I just enjoyed not having to slog through traffic. Does that make me shallow?

    Nah, we all wish that!

    Yagotta, I am dead serious. I'm just confused by what you said.
    "Yo, James, i'm really happy for you, i'm gonna let you finish killing Bella in a minute, but Demetri was one of the best Trackers of ALL time!"

    www.myspace.com/mimichica
  • yagottaloveyacurlsyagottaloveyacurls Posts: 5,766Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Yagotta, I am dead serious. I'm just confused by what you said.

    I'm confused over you being confused.... What exactly do you know about Native Americans? That they live in the woods and trees and hunt and gather? Come on now.... are YOU serious?

    Not all tribes are the same of course, but there is a common thread. I'm talking about their way of life, their respect and love and reverence for this earth and for each other. For their spirituality. Soooo many beautiful things, so many beautiful ways they could have taught those that came over. But their way of life was violently trampled over. What could have been a truly beautiful society....became the USA.

    The settlers saw "savage" and felt fear at what was different from theirselves. Fear leads to hate. History repeats itself. over and over and over and over. When the hell are we going to learn?

    Yeah, I wish columbus never landed and I wish the settlers never INVADED. What if that meant me not being born? so be it. I'm sure my soul would have managed to get here somehow.
  • RheannaRheanna Posts: 2,614Registered Users
    Trenell wrote: »
    Columbus set the stage. When making the natives failed, they went for Africans. Fast forward a few hundred years: there's like 7 Natives left and the blacks are still catching hell.

    To say "that how it goes" does a great injustice to the souls that where murdered enslaved and raped out of greed, racism, and fear. All most of us are saying is to accept the ENTIRE history.

    I do. I never said I was all "woo freakin' hoo, it's Columbus day! He's great and wonderful! We should build a statue for him!" I don't think that at all. I think it's a frickin' stupid holiday, actually, and just an excuse for people to have a day off (not me! but lots of people). Regardless, I don't think it's fair to hate the day or the man.

    That IS how it goes, and all countries have horrible aspects of their history as well. He may have set the stage, but he did not personally kill all Native Americans. I don't see any need to celebrate him though, so I'm pretty neutral on this subject I suppose. I am still glad to be here.
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  • hadtochangemynamehadtochangemyname Posts: 628Registered Users
    Besides, Columbus wasn't even the first European to travel to North America.

    Just the first one to bring slaves back.
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  • TrenellTrenell Posts: 3,562Registered Users
    Besides, Columbus wasn't even the first European to travel to North America.

    Just the first one to bring slaves back.

    Happy Lief Erikkson Day! (sp)
  • CurlyDadCurlyDad Banned Posts: 122Banned Users
    They were savages who refused to accept the word of God.
  • SarcasmIsBeautySarcasmIsBeauty Posts: 5,640Registered Users
    CurlyDad wrote: »
    They were savages who refused to accept the word of God.

    Yes because the Europeans weren't savages either, they were all saints!:roll:
    Turtles: omg please don't put that in your moo moo

    Nej: too late... moo moo has been infiltrated.
  • CurlyDadCurlyDad Banned Posts: 122Banned Users
    No they were on a mission from God.
  • StephSStephS Posts: 352Registered Users
    They were savages who refused to accept the word of God.

    By that logic, if a group of people came to your land where you had been living with your community peacefully, and you refused to accept their concept or beliefs in a god or something similar, it would be justified for them to then fight you and take over your land.

    Alrighty, then.
  • SarcasmIsBeautySarcasmIsBeauty Posts: 5,640Registered Users
    CurlyDad wrote: »
    No they were on a mission from God.

    Yes just keep using that excuse to justify their atrocious actions and their greed.

    Religion always seems to be the scapegoat, what a surprise!
    Turtles: omg please don't put that in your moo moo

    Nej: too late... moo moo has been infiltrated.
  • susancnwsusancnw Posts: 1,366Registered Users
    People are actually believing this re-write of history that Columbus was nothing more than a murderer? For crying out loud, no matter how liberal you are you'd think a holiday celebrating the man who made America possible wouldn't cause so much controversy.

    You'd not think it would, but I can remember this BS about it starting shortly after I was out of college. Apparently it is fine in every other nation in the world to celebrate whatever they want, but God forbid that we celebrate Columbus Day.

    It's really easy to sit back in judgment on a person and events 500+ years in the past. Look what they are doing to Jefferson and Washington and that was not 300 yrs ago.

    But some people have to complain about everything and take offense at everything...we have to ALL be politically correct at all times...even our history. OTOH, that's something great about our nation. We can be as petty and nitpicky as we want ;D
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