Homeschooling banned in California

KaiaKaia Posts: 8,815Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
http://www.naturalnews.com/024287.html

"A primary purpose of the educational system is to train school children in good citizenship, patriotism and loyalty to the state and the nation," Croskey wrote".

Really? Teaching them math and reading is secondary then?

Critical, independent thinking is probably forbidden then...?
According to the law center's executive director, Leslie Heimov, children should not be educated at home, because they need to be "in a place daily where they would be observed by people who had a duty to ensure their ongoing safety."

Yikes! Hello Big brother. :thumbdown:
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Comments

  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Yet another civil right lost.

    Having spent some time as a homeschooler myself, and been involved with the homeschooling community...the gov't might have a point. Some homeschooling families are kinda scary.
  • KaiaKaia Posts: 8,815Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Doesn't the first quote scare you a bit though? They're basically admitting that they're making public schools mandatory, so they can brainwash all the kids to be the state's mindless followers.
    *Poster formerly known as Bailey422*

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  • sarah42sarah42 Posts: 4,034Registered Users
    Bailey422 wrote: »
    Doesn't the first quote scare you a bit though? They're basically admitting that they're making public schools mandatory, so they can brainwash all the kids to be the state's mindless followers.

    Um.....YES! That is scary!

    I don't have any plans myself to homeschool my kids, but I think people should have the right and the choice to do it.
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  • nynaeve77nynaeve77 Posts: 7,135Registered Users Curl Novice
    Wow. While I agree some homeschooling familes are scary (in college, I used to work for a curriculum company in their homeschool dept. as an advisor and yikes!), it should be the right of the parents to decide how best to educate their children. That's really frightening.

    I have no desire to homeschool because I live in an area that has a good school district. But if I didn't, I can absolutely see homeschooling as an alternative to sending my kids to a crappy school. I'm sure a lot of families that homeschool would love to send their kids to a private school but can't afford it, so now they're screwed. Boo.
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  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Bailey422 wrote: »
    Doesn't the first quote scare you a bit though? They're basically admitting that they're making public schools mandatory, so they can brainwash all the kids to be the state's mindless followers.


    Yes, it scares me. I'm for keeping gov't out of our families as much as possible, and parents do have a right to educate their own children.

    The USA has a long history of brainwashing public school kids...we still do it...every time they say the Pledge of Allegiance. This is nothing new. Children shouldn't be pledging anything...that's Nazi-ish.
  • curly_keltiecurly_keltie Posts: 791Registered Users
    Bailey422 wrote: »
    According to the law center's executive director, Leslie Heimov, children should not be educated at home, because they need to be "in a place daily where they would be observed by people who had a duty to ensure their ongoing safety."

    So..if what are my duties, as DS's mother, if they aren't to "ensure his ongoing safety"

    Being in Canada (and not planning to homeschool anyway) this doesn't affect me...but it still angers me.
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  • DEL2CDEL2C Posts: 6,418Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Bailey422 wrote: »
    http://www.naturalnews.com/024287.html

    "A primary purpose of the educational system is to train school children in good citizenship, patriotism and loyalty to the state and the nation," Croskey wrote".

    Really? Teaching them math and reading is secondary then?

    Critical, independent thinking is probably forbidden then...?
    According to the law center's executive director, Leslie Heimov, children should not be educated at home, because they need to be "in a place daily where they would be observed by people who had a duty to ensure their ongoing safety."

    Yikes! Hello Big brother. :thumbdown:
    This DISGUSTS me!!!!!!! Especially when it's been PROVEN that homeschooled kids test better than kids in Public school. They are benefitting from an Education that is suited for the individual child not some BLANKET curriculum in a classroom.
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  • LikeAustraliaLikeAustralia Posts: 2,812Registered Users
    Bailey422 wrote: »
    Doesn't the first quote scare you a bit though? They're basically admitting that they're making public schools mandatory, so they can brainwash all the kids to be the state's mindless followers.


    Yes, it scares me. I'm for keeping gov't out of our families as much as possible, and parents do have a right to educate their own children.

    The USA has a long history of brainwashing public school kids...we still do it...every time they say the Pledge of Allegiance. This is nothing new. Children shouldn't be pledging anything...that's Nazi-ish.

    We didn't have to say the pledge in my school, not in high school anyway. We had a "Moment of Silence" in which you could do whatever you pleased.. as long as it was silent. It was a slight attempt at prayer in the school at the push of the PTA, but I was happy to not have to say the pledge anymore. Just for reference.. I graduated HS in '02.

    To the OP - yes, this is very scary. I think it should be up to the family. Not sure if it's directly related or not, but
    the "No child left behind" act is seriously ruining our local school systems.
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  • OnyxCabeloOnyxCabelo Posts: 1,767Registered Users
    "According to the law center's executive director, Leslie Heimov, children should not be educated at home, because they need to be "in a place daily where they would be observed by people who had a duty to ensure their ongoing safety."

    I have to admit - this whole thing is scary to me too. Obviously the child's parents have a greater obligation to ensure the safety their child than someone hired by the school district. It starts in California and then is spreads:angry7:.
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  • subbrocksubbrock Posts: 8,212Registered Users
    nynaeve77 wrote: »
    Wow. While I agree some homeschooling familes are scary (in college, I used to work for a curriculum company in their homeschool dept. as an advisor and yikes!), it should be the right of the parents to decide how best to educate their children. That's really frightening.

    i totally agree.

    ive thought about homeschooling but in all actuality i plan on sending my daughter to private school. her grandparents are probably going to have to pay for it, but public schools scare me.
  • DEL2CDEL2C Posts: 6,418Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    subbrock wrote: »
    nynaeve77 wrote: »
    Wow. While I agree some homeschooling familes are scary (in college, I used to work for a curriculum company in their homeschool dept. as an advisor and yikes!), it should be the right of the parents to decide how best to educate their children. That's really frightening.

    i totally agree.

    ive thought about homeschooling but in all actuality i plan on sending my daughter to private school. her grandparents are probably going to have to pay for it, but public schools scare me.
    I have to admit - this whole thing is scary to me too. Obviously the child's parents have a greater obligation to ensure the safety their child than someone hired by the school district. It starts in California and then is spreads:angry7:.
    I'm with you. I'm sending my daughter to PreSchool just so she can make friends but I don't want her enrolled in "The System" when it's time for Kinder. I've been thinking about Homeschooling myself. I'm still in shock that CA passed this law, we can only brace ourselves for the States that follow, really scary..............
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  • CynaminbearCynaminbear Posts: 4,476Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Sadly, this has been the law and stance of lawmakers in CA for a while. A parent can educate their child at home, but must be registered and fall under the umbrella of a private school, basically functioning as a charter school.
    The idea that a parent doesn't have their own child's best interest at heart is insulting. Fortunately the US hasn't passed the UN treaty on the rights of the child because in that treaty all home schooling would be illegal. That is the law Germany has been utilizing to remove children from their families because they chose to home school.
    For the record, I don't home school my kids because I can't afford private school. I home school my kids because I'm their mother and their childhood will be over in a blink. A government school or bureaucrat in my state capitol cannot make the best decisions for my children, my husband and I can. It's our responsibility, not theirs.
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  • rainshowerrainshower Posts: 4,420Registered Users
    Bailey422 wrote: »
    According to the law center's executive director, Leslie Heimov, children should not be educated at home, because they need to be "in a place daily where they would be observed by people who had a duty to ensure their ongoing safety."

    so by this logic, every school whose perimeters have ever been broken by bullies, weapons, drugs, assaults, and deaths have failed and should be banned as well, right?

    and i won't even get started on all the teachers out there who are only qualified to teach by degree alone, meaning there are teachers out there who lack thorough knowledge of their subject matter, or who know their subject matter but don't know how to teach it so that students can effectively learn it, who don't know how to customize teaching styles for those kids who don't learn in traditional ways, and who lack genuine enthusiasm to teach, creating unchallenged and bored students (a bad combination in this trigger-happy society). but we know that teachers like this fill many schools across this country. why aren't they banned from teaching now or ever?
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  • Brown_Eyed_GirlBrown_Eyed_Girl Posts: 1,353Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    ITA.

    It's so ironic to me that in CA you can smoke pot, but you can't homeschool.

    The courts in CA have been playing with this case for a while though...I think this is the third ruling on it (although I may be mistaken). It will be interesting to see where it finally ends up.
  • OnyxCabeloOnyxCabelo Posts: 1,767Registered Users
    Sadly, this has been the law and stance of lawmakers in CA for a while. A parent can educate their child at home, but must be registered and fall under the umbrella of a private school, basically functioning as a charter school.
    The idea that a parent doesn't have their own child's best interest at heart is insulting. Fortunately the US hasn't passed the UN treaty on the rights of the child because in that treaty all home schooling would be illegal. That is the law Germany has been utilizing to remove children from their families because they chose to home school.
    For the record, I don't home school my kids because I can't afford private school. I home school my kids because I'm their mother and their childhood will be over in a blink. A government school or bureaucrat in my state capitol cannot make the best decisions for my children, my husband and I can. It's our responsibility, not theirs.

    ITA!!!
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  • OnyxCabeloOnyxCabelo Posts: 1,767Registered Users
    rainshower wrote: »
    Bailey422 wrote: »
    According to the law center's executive director, Leslie Heimov, children should not be educated at home, because they need to be "in a place daily where they would be observed by people who had a duty to ensure their ongoing safety."

    so by this logic, every school whose perimeters have ever been broken by bullies, weapons, drugs, assaults, and deaths have failed and should be banned as well, right?

    and i won't even get started on all the teachers out there who are only qualified to teach by degree alone, meaning there are teachers out there who lack thorough knowledge of their subject matter, or who know their subject matter but don't know how to teach it so that students can effectively learn it, who don't know how to customize teaching styles for those kids who don't learn in traditional ways, and who lack genuine enthusiasm to teach, creating unchallenged and bored students (a bad combination in this trigger-happy society). but we know that teachers like this fill many schools across this country. why aren't they banned from teaching now or ever?

    Excellent point!!!
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  • DEL2CDEL2C Posts: 6,418Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    rainshower wrote: »
    Bailey422 wrote: »
    According to the law center's executive director, Leslie Heimov, children should not be educated at home, because they need to be "in a place daily where they would be observed by people who had a duty to ensure their ongoing safety."

    so by this logic, every school whose perimeters have ever been broken by bullies, weapons, drugs, assaults, and deaths have failed and should be banned as well, right?

    and i won't even get started on all the teachers out there who are only qualified to teach by degree alone, meaning there are teachers out there who lack thorough knowledge of their subject matter, or who know their subject matter but don't know how to teach it so that students can effectively learn it, who don't know how to customize teaching styles for those kids who don't learn in traditional ways, and who lack genuine enthusiasm to teach, creating unchallenged and bored students (a bad combination in this trigger-happy society). but we know that teachers like this fill many schools across this country. why aren't they banned from teaching now or ever?
    You are SOOOOOOOOOOOO right!!!!! There are an awful lot of unqualifed teachers its a JOKE!
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  • Katherine NaomiKatherine Naomi Posts: 49Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    The information in that article is way outdated! As a homeschooling Mom, though not in CA, I've been keeping an eye on this case. This article has the correct information...

    http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/07/california-court-reverses-decision/
    Across the country, home-schoolers have been celebrating the most significant victory for home-school freedom in 14 years. On Aug. 8, in a unanimous reversal of its previous ruling, the Court of Appeal for the Second Appellate District in California ruled that parents in California could home-school legally without being a certified teacher.
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  • KaiaKaia Posts: 8,815Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    The information in that article is way outdated! As a homeschooling Mom, though not in CA, I've been keeping an eye on this case. This article has the correct information...

    http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/07/california-court-reverses-decision/
    Across the country, home-schoolers have been celebrating the most significant victory for home-school freedom in 14 years. On Aug. 8, in a unanimous reversal of its previous ruling, the Court of Appeal for the Second Appellate District in California ruled that parents in California could home-school legally without being a certified teacher.

    Thanks for clarifying. I thought it was odd b/c I heard the case was appealed, but this article is more recent, so I thought that ruling was overturned back. I'm still confused, but I really hope you are right.
    *Poster formerly known as Bailey422*

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  • M2LRM2LR Posts: 8,630Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    ITA.

    It's so ironic to me that in CA you can smoke pot, but you can't homeschool.

    The courts in CA have been playing with this case for a while though...I think this is the third ruling on it (although I may be mistaken). It will be interesting to see where it finally ends up.

    AIDS and cancer patients, and others with serious medical problems smoke medicinal marijuana...but I wouldn't say that it's legal to smoke pot in CA.
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  • Brown_Eyed_GirlBrown_Eyed_Girl Posts: 1,353Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Bailey422 wrote: »
    The information in that article is way outdated! As a homeschooling Mom, though not in CA, I've been keeping an eye on this case. This article has the correct information...

    http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/07/california-court-reverses-decision/
    Across the country, home-schoolers have been celebrating the most significant victory for home-school freedom in 14 years. On Aug. 8, in a unanimous reversal of its previous ruling, the Court of Appeal for the Second Appellate District in California ruled that parents in California could home-school legally without being a certified teacher.

    Thanks for clarifying. I thought it was odd b/c I heard the case was appealed, but this article is more recent, so I thought that ruling was overturned back. I'm still confused, but I really hope you are right.

    Bailey, that's what I was thinking too when I said this would be the third ruling (so I'm sorry for adding to the confusion). Thanks for the info, Katherine!
  • afrosheenqueenafrosheenqueen Posts: 5,400Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    OnyxCabelo wrote: »
    "According to the law center's executive director, Leslie Heimov, children should not be educated at home, because they need to be "in a place daily where they would be observed by people who had a duty to ensure their ongoing safety."

    I have to admit - this whole thing is scary to me too. Obviously the child's parents have a greater obligation to ensure the safety their child than someone hired by the school district. It starts in California and then is spreads:angry7:.

    I would think so too but not all parents have their child's best interest at heart. I think cases like this one (http://www.wbaltv.com/cnn-news/17580952/detail.html is what the article was kinda referring to.

    I think they want to be able to track children and their well being better and school is how they fall back to doing it now. But there needs to be a better way though. There are many signs of abuse and neglect. A lot of teachers and counselors don't always see it.
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  • OnyxCabeloOnyxCabelo Posts: 1,767Registered Users
    OnyxCabelo wrote: »
    "According to the law center's executive director, Leslie Heimov, children should not be educated at home, because they need to be "in a place daily where they would be observed by people who had a duty to ensure their ongoing safety."

    I have to admit - this whole thing is scary to me too. Obviously the child's parents have a greater obligation to ensure the safety their child than someone hired by the school district. It starts in California and then is spreads:angry7:.

    I would think so too but not all parents have their child's best interest at heart. I think cases like this one (http://www.wbaltv.com/cnn-news/17580952/detail.html is what the article was kinda referring to.

    I think they want to be able to track children and their well being better and school is how they fall back to doing it now. But there needs to be a better way though. There are many signs of abuse and neglect. A lot of teachers and counselors don't always see it.

    What a complete tragedy - just heartbreaking:sad8:.

    I've definitely heard of the terrible stories like these of children being abused, so I can understand the need to do some kind of tracking. But fortunately most parents are not like this, and they really do care about their children. If things like this are the reason why the state has outlawed home schooling - I personally think it's unfair. Why should all parents be punished because of the abhorrant behaviors of a few?

    Do we know if this lady was home schooling these kids? If not, and they were in the public school system, why are they just now finding the bodies? This woman said she had had the remains in her freezer since February!! Good grief!! If these kids were in the public school system - it still didn't protect them. This story is just an all around tragic story about a very sick woman who did a horrific thing. I do not, however, think it reflects the reality of most home schooled children.

    http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/opinion.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2008-08-28-0119.html

    Now granted - nothing is perfect, as you said - there has got to be a better way, but like I said earlier taking away the rights of all because of the behaviors of a few is IMHO, wrong.
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  • CynaminbearCynaminbear Posts: 4,476Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    OnyxCabelo wrote: »
    OnyxCabelo wrote: »
    "According to the law center's executive director, Leslie Heimov, children should not be educated at home, because they need to be "in a place daily where they would be observed by people who had a duty to ensure their ongoing safety."

    I have to admit - this whole thing is scary to me too. Obviously the child's parents have a greater obligation to ensure the safety their child than someone hired by the school district. It starts in
    California and then is spreads:angry7:.

    I would think so too but not all parents have their child's best interest at heart. I think cases like this one (http://www.wbaltv.com/cnn-news/17580952/detail.html is what the article was kinda referring to.

    I think they want to be able to track children and their well being better and school is how they fall back to doing it now. But there needs to be a better way though. There are many signs of abuse and neglect. A lot of teachers and counselors don't always see it.

    What a complete tragedy - just heartbreaking:sad8:.

    I've definitely heard of the terrible stories like these of children being abused, so I can understand the need to do some kind of tracking. But fortunately most parents are not like this, and they really do care about their children. If things like this are the reason why the state has outlawed home schooling - I personally think it's unfair. Why should all parents be punished because of the abhorrant behaviors of a few?

    Do we know if this lady was home schooling these kids? If not, and they were in the public school system, why are they just now finding the bodies? This woman said she had had the remains in her freezer since February!! Good grief!! If these kids were in the public school system - it still didn't protect them. This story is just an all around tragic story about a very sick woman who did a horrific thing. I do not, however, think it reflects the reality of most home schooled children.

    http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/opinion.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2008-08-28-0119.html

    Now granted - nothing is perfect, as you said - there has got to be a better way, but like I said earlier taking away the rights of all because of the behaviors of a few is IMHO, wrong.

    Thank you for saying this. The only time the general public hears anything about home school families is when something horrific happens. We never hear the great stories, the successful stories. Like, Chris Paolini who wrote The Inheritance cycle books, Eragon, Eldest, and Brisingr. He was home schooled and graduated at 15 and the first book was published when he was 19. He's just one example. There are many home school adults now, contributing to society. It's unfair to only bring up abuse and death when discussing home school families, which the media loves to do.
    As for the children who were killed mentioned above, that's horribly tragic. However, I haven't seen any mention of the children's involvement in a school of any kind. The oldest child is 7, how old were the 2 children who were killed? Were they in school or pre-school?
    Speaking of school and preschool, how many kids have been abused at home, under the nose of teachers and administrators? Teachers have enough to do during the day, trying to teach 30 kids. They aren't qualified nor do they have the time to ferret out the kids who are being abused at home.
    Enrolling children in school out of the home does not guarantee they will not be abused at home. It only guarantees the government more control over our lives and gives a false sense of safety. I don't home school because of safety issues, but is it unreasonable for families to remove their children from a school when violence occurs? What about emotional abuse? Junior high and high school students are notorious for inflicting emotional abuse on perceived weaker students.
    I home school because my kids are this age only once. I should have the most influence over my children, not a rotating list of teachers and teachers aides, and especially not other children the same age as my kids, left to flounder on their own in the school system during lunch, hallways, and recess. They will encounter the same difficulties as out of home schooled kids, but they have the extra benefit of having their mother and father close by to help them navigate those rough times.
    Equating abusive and murderous parents with home school parents is wrong, period.
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  • Brown_Eyed_GirlBrown_Eyed_Girl Posts: 1,353Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Cynaminbear, I completely agree.
  • hunnybeemayhunnybeemay Posts: 75Registered Users
    Sadly, this has been the law and stance of lawmakers in CA for a while. A parent can educate their child at home, but must be registered and fall under the umbrella of a private school, basically functioning as a charter school.
    The idea that a parent doesn't have their own child's best interest at heart is insulting. Fortunately the US hasn't passed the UN treaty on the rights of the child because in that treaty all home schooling would be illegal. That is the law Germany has been utilizing to remove children from their families because they chose to home school.
    For the record, I don't home school my kids because I can't afford private school. I home school my kids because I'm their mother and their childhood will be over in a blink. A government school or bureaucrat in my state capitol cannot make the best decisions for my children, my husband and I can. It's our responsibility, not theirs.


    I'm so glad you pointed out the decision to homeschool because you wanted to, not just because the alternative wasn't affordable or acceptable. I'm planning to homeschool as well, and this idea of mandatory public education infuriates and scares me. And it seems like it's common to assume that one must live in a lousy school district or not be able to afford private school if they choose to homeschool. Neither is true for me. I just know my kids and that I have their best interest in mind, more so than any paid employee and I want to be the one to teach them.
    Incidentally, homeschooling is nothing new. Public education is the more recent invention. People have been teaching their children themselves for millenia and somehow humanity has managed to progress, despite the lack of formal public education throughout most of history. Hmmm....

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