seborrhoeic dermatitis and curls =/

i'd like to try for a no-poo routine, however, i don't think my scalp wants to play ball. if i don't shampoo at least three or four times a week, my scalp gets incredibly scaley, often with scabby patches, and itches like hell when it dries... before it dries, my scalp feels like one large open sore, complete with yucky, sticky clear fluid and incredibly sensitive skin. i combat this with intensive-strength shampoos like head & shoulders and t-gel. regular shampoo leaves me scaley and itchy and miserable; i can't imagine that just using a conditioner to scrub my scalp would be any better.

basically, then, how can i enhance and fortify my curls while still satisfying the special needs of my scalp?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
2c/3a
"Being a redhead comes from within. Redheadedness is a quality of the person, a state of mind. Red hair is simply an external, physical, manifestation, and a sure giveaway of this state of mind. Because of its beauty, red hair also is a special gift of nature given to redheads in appreciation for our special role in human society. We are only "different" because there are so few of us." -G. Adam Stanislav

Comments

  • pelicanopelicano Posts: 580Registered Users
    I have SD, and it is a complete pain, as I can't use conditioners, even on my ends, anymore, let alone conditioner-washing.

    I went without shampoo for months, with no change to my SD, but I'm now back on it every few days. What I have found most helpful is water washing every day, and scrubbing as if I'm using shampoo, to shift the build up.

    Also, vitamin C powder! I use it in a bit of water and cover my scalp with it, just after I've washed. It can change your hair colour a bit, so be warned! It has made my dark blonde hair a bit more golden/gingery coloured, but no-one has commented, so it can't be that noticeable.

    Forgot to say, instead of conditioner, I am using oils, which I leave in.
    Sarah.

    Based in the UK. 2-something (2b?) hair. Very porous, fine and brittle/fragile

    Hair loves: Drip drying, glycerine, shea butter, oils
    Hair hates: Plopping, any kind of gel, most conditioners (scalp issues).
  • celticgoddesscelticgoddess Posts: 92Registered Users
    thanks for the reply =)

    what sort of oils do you use? and what is the benefit if the vitamin c powder? i've never heard of anything like that... also, i'm a strawberry-blonde redhead... colour change can be dicey for me... any redheads out there tried vitamin c powder like this?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    2c/3a
    "Being a redhead comes from within. Redheadedness is a quality of the person, a state of mind. Red hair is simply an external, physical, manifestation, and a sure giveaway of this state of mind. Because of its beauty, red hair also is a special gift of nature given to redheads in appreciation for our special role in human society. We are only "different" because there are so few of us." -G. Adam Stanislav
  • pelicanopelicano Posts: 580Registered Users
    I suspect I'm the only one using vitamin C - I read it after huge amounts of Googling and trying things out. it definitely keeps my SD under some control. I think it probably has an effect a bit like asprin (not that I've tried that). I use pure ascorbic acid powder - no additives.

    Your hair might go a little brighter but, as I say, no-one else has noticed mine, unless I've really pointed it out to them. Also, it took ages to change colour, so you wouldn't change colour overnight and could stop if you noticed it.

    I forgot to also say, I use lime juice as a rinse - it's great stuff, as it's acidic. It doesn't dry the hair out in the way that you'd expect.

    I'm currently liking apricot kernel oil, didn't like jojoba. I'm also using castor oil at the moment, which is quite thick and sticky, so acts a bit like a serum.
    Sarah.

    Based in the UK. 2-something (2b?) hair. Very porous, fine and brittle/fragile

    Hair loves: Drip drying, glycerine, shea butter, oils
    Hair hates: Plopping, any kind of gel, most conditioners (scalp issues).
  • celticgoddesscelticgoddess Posts: 92Registered Users
    *goes to google*
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    2c/3a
    "Being a redhead comes from within. Redheadedness is a quality of the person, a state of mind. Red hair is simply an external, physical, manifestation, and a sure giveaway of this state of mind. Because of its beauty, red hair also is a special gift of nature given to redheads in appreciation for our special role in human society. We are only "different" because there are so few of us." -G. Adam Stanislav
  • lapushkalapushka Posts: 601Registered Users
    Why not use Nizoral shampoo, I bet it's better than H&S. If you have SD that bad, take care of it first before going no poo!

    http://www.nizoral.com/story/index.jhtml
  • celticgoddesscelticgoddess Posts: 92Registered Users
    i've been dealing with SD since i was about 12, maybe even younger. i used to treat it with prescription stuff when i was younger, but it didn't help any more than the OTC stuff, so i just use H&S , t-gel, whatever. i'll certainly look into that stuff, though.

    on a side note, i washed only my scalp with the H&S earlier today and left the rest of my hair completely alone (don't have any conditioner at the moment)... my scalp itches a tiny bit, but the rest of my hair doesn't look too bad... not as curly as when i let it dry after the pool yesterday, but wavier than normal.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    2c/3a
    "Being a redhead comes from within. Redheadedness is a quality of the person, a state of mind. Red hair is simply an external, physical, manifestation, and a sure giveaway of this state of mind. Because of its beauty, red hair also is a special gift of nature given to redheads in appreciation for our special role in human society. We are only "different" because there are so few of us." -G. Adam Stanislav
  • pelicanopelicano Posts: 580Registered Users
    The trouble is with SD, it's not as though you can 'deal with it' and then it goes, so then you can go CG - it's always going to be there and has to be controlled. That's why I've tried to find a modified CG to accommodate it - I refuse to use awful harsh shampoos daily that dry out my hair.
    Sarah.

    Based in the UK. 2-something (2b?) hair. Very porous, fine and brittle/fragile

    Hair loves: Drip drying, glycerine, shea butter, oils
    Hair hates: Plopping, any kind of gel, most conditioners (scalp issues).
  • helloitsiohelloitsio Posts: 1,369Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I have SD on a small patch near the base of my scalp. I've had it for probably 7 years now. I used to shampoo with sulfate daily and that just aggravated it more. H&S didn't work, T gel didn't work, and salicylic acid shampoos didn't work. It got to the point where I was scratching that area right after a shower and drawing blood. I went to the derm and was advised to shampoo daily and apply a strong Rx strength hydrocortisone gel. I followed the advice until I had it under control.

    When I started contemplating the CG method, my SD was out of control (the Rx gel wasn't working anymore) and my hair was completely dry from trying to remedy the situation with daily shampoos. I did a bit more research about SD and decided to try Nizoral. My SD was literally under control after two washes with it. I went ahead and started cowashes and the number of flareups decreased dramatically. After finding out what works for my waves, I am now modified CG so I shampoo with a low 'poo when I feel my scalp needs it and alternate with cowashes. If I do get the occasional flareup, I just apply the Rx gel and after two applications, it's back to being under control.

    HTH
    2 b/c :: slight protein sensitivity :: med/coarse texture :: normal porosity

    Location: SoCal
    http://public.fotki.com/Helloitsio/
    http://skinandhairjunkie.wordpress.com/
  • WurlyLoxWurlyLox Posts: 4,858Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I've had SD for most of my 52 years, very much as you described yours. I've been able to keep it bearable and slightly controlled by alternating Nizoral, T-Gel, and Psoriasin shampoos.

    I recently decided to try to go modified CG and starting looking into other ways to treat it. One was apple cider vinegar. So, for the past couple of months I've cut out all sulfate shampoos and added ACV to the routine as follows:

    Once or twice a week, I shampoo with Giovanni Tea Tree Triple Treat shampoo (sulfate-free), rinse with 2 T. ACV in 1 c water, use the conditioner of the same name, follow with Giovanni Direct LI conditioner, then whatever gels, etc. I choose for the day. In between shampoos, some days I co-wash with Suave Coconut or Giovanni 3T conditioner, some days I just water wash.

    Overall, just cutting out the sulfates altogether seems to have helped. The ACV is good for both scalp (neutralizes the pH level according to something I found on-line) and hair (clarifies and shines).

    A couple of times when it was feeling more itchy and crusted again, I worked straight ACV into my scalp the night before and then washed with GV 3T the next morning. That seemed to calm it back down.

    I haven't had to resort to a medicated shampoo since I started this, but if I did, I'd use Psoriasin since it's sulfate-free. Hard to find locally, but drugstore.com carries it.

    Maybe I'm a PJ sucker, but I bought one of those Goody treatment brushes with the copper bristles/teeth that's supposed to be good for dandruff, and I often carefully brush my hair and scalp well with it before wetting or shampooing. Don't know if it helps, but it feels good and some combo of all of this has helped.

    One last thing, I got some FOTE clear aloe gel earlier this week and I've been using it on hair and scalp first thing out of the shower, before my leave-in or anything else. Helps hair and I figured it couldn't hurt and might help the scalp.

    Hope some of this helps!
    2C/3A/3B - modified CG - fairly fine now, normal/low porosity/normal elasticity

    Current Main Rotation: MG217 medicated or Aim2Health 'poos for scalp, Elucence cond., Spiral Solutions Protein & Deeply Decadent Cond., CJCCCC reg or lite,CJ Pattern Pusha,, Giovanni LA Hold Hair Spritz + lots more, sporadically

    HG Method: Super Soaker + Smasters-ing, brief upside down diffusing w/360o diffuser then clips/clamps & air dry. Newly gray - stopped my henna glosses!

    www.fotki.com/auntnett
  • pelicanopelicano Posts: 580Registered Users
    Ooh I want one of those Goody brushes. Not sure if they do them over here. I must stop buying brushes and combs though!!
    Sarah.

    Based in the UK. 2-something (2b?) hair. Very porous, fine and brittle/fragile

    Hair loves: Drip drying, glycerine, shea butter, oils
    Hair hates: Plopping, any kind of gel, most conditioners (scalp issues).
  • celticgoddesscelticgoddess Posts: 92Registered Users
    lol... we buy a ton of brushes because my husband can still never find one when he needs it :angryfire:
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    2c/3a
    "Being a redhead comes from within. Redheadedness is a quality of the person, a state of mind. Red hair is simply an external, physical, manifestation, and a sure giveaway of this state of mind. Because of its beauty, red hair also is a special gift of nature given to redheads in appreciation for our special role in human society. We are only "different" because there are so few of us." -G. Adam Stanislav
  • FeralcurlsFeralcurls Posts: 408Registered Users
    Have a look in your health food shops for a natural treatment. I got a great conditioner last weekend (am in Australia) that has really helped. It is CG and organic! I do low poo wash every second day with Mastey Triate poo.

    Also use Biolage Conditioning balm.

    Another thing I am trying is taking probiotics to treat it internally. It has improved alot.

    The ACV rinse absolutely killed my head, it hurt like crazy so just a warning on that.

    If mine gets really ouchy I put oil on my scalp. It is actually a bath oil for itchy dry skin. You do need to shampoo it out though.
  • curlylauracurlylaura Posts: 8,352Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I have SD too. The only thing that got rid of it was Roaccutane, the acne medication! Obviously I can't use that just for my scalp. I have tried all sorts of stuff:

    Head and Shoulders
    Tea Tree Oil based shampoos
    Betnovate lotion (Rx only)
    PolyTar shampoo
    Coal tar shampoo
    T-gel shampoo
    Salicyilic acid shampoo
    Nizoral shampoo

    The nizoral works the best (and Boots do their own version for slightly less money than the real stuff) but only if I remember to use it at least once a week. If I don't use it that often I end up back at square one in no time. I've got some Nizorelle shampoo at the moment that I'm going to try tonight, it's slightly cheaper than Nizoral but I'll give it a go. I find Nizoral works best if I leave it on for about 10 minutes before rinsing.
    Fat does not make you fat. It's actually pretty important.
  • WurlyLoxWurlyLox Posts: 4,858Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I've never seen a generic or knock-off version of Nizoral here. Will have to watch for it. Even it just controls my SD somewhat, though. Avoiding sulfates seems to be helping as much as anything.

    Will have to try the probiotics route, too . . . .
    2C/3A/3B - modified CG - fairly fine now, normal/low porosity/normal elasticity

    Current Main Rotation: MG217 medicated or Aim2Health 'poos for scalp, Elucence cond., Spiral Solutions Protein & Deeply Decadent Cond., CJCCCC reg or lite,CJ Pattern Pusha,, Giovanni LA Hold Hair Spritz + lots more, sporadically

    HG Method: Super Soaker + Smasters-ing, brief upside down diffusing w/360o diffuser then clips/clamps & air dry. Newly gray - stopped my henna glosses!

    www.fotki.com/auntnett
  • celticgoddesscelticgoddess Posts: 92Registered Users
    interestingly enough, i didn't wash my hair at all after going to the beach today, only rinsed quickly in the outdoor shower before coming in and getting changed, and my scalp hasn't bothered me one bit all evening.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    2c/3a
    "Being a redhead comes from within. Redheadedness is a quality of the person, a state of mind. Red hair is simply an external, physical, manifestation, and a sure giveaway of this state of mind. Because of its beauty, red hair also is a special gift of nature given to redheads in appreciation for our special role in human society. We are only "different" because there are so few of us." -G. Adam Stanislav
  • pelicanopelicano Posts: 580Registered Users
    I can't find those Goody brushes on sale anywhere in the UK. :(
    Sarah.

    Based in the UK. 2-something (2b?) hair. Very porous, fine and brittle/fragile

    Hair loves: Drip drying, glycerine, shea butter, oils
    Hair hates: Plopping, any kind of gel, most conditioners (scalp issues).
  • WurlyLoxWurlyLox Posts: 4,858Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    pelicano wrote: »
    I can't find those Goody brushes on sale anywhere in the UK. :(


    Since I mentioned it, I've been keeping an eye out here, and I no longer see it around here, either. And I just got mine a few months ago - sorry I got your hopes up!

    As for no itching since the beach, Celtic Goddess, I find that salt water often helps all manner of skin problems, so I'm not surprised . . . .
    2C/3A/3B - modified CG - fairly fine now, normal/low porosity/normal elasticity

    Current Main Rotation: MG217 medicated or Aim2Health 'poos for scalp, Elucence cond., Spiral Solutions Protein & Deeply Decadent Cond., CJCCCC reg or lite,CJ Pattern Pusha,, Giovanni LA Hold Hair Spritz + lots more, sporadically

    HG Method: Super Soaker + Smasters-ing, brief upside down diffusing w/360o diffuser then clips/clamps & air dry. Newly gray - stopped my henna glosses!

    www.fotki.com/auntnett
  • pelicanopelicano Posts: 580Registered Users
    No worries - I'll keep an eye out for those brushes though. They'll find their way here eventually, hopefully!
    Sarah.

    Based in the UK. 2-something (2b?) hair. Very porous, fine and brittle/fragile

    Hair loves: Drip drying, glycerine, shea butter, oils
    Hair hates: Plopping, any kind of gel, most conditioners (scalp issues).
  • theloulatheloula Posts: 23Registered Users
    Not sure if this helps... :)

    I just found out that I have SD this week. Prior to that, a doctor told me that I have psoriasis. The allergist I just went to said that I have psoriasis on my elbows, but that my scalp was SD.

    In the spring, my entire body was itching like crazy so I did some research on psoriasis. I found an article that says that there may be a link between external yeast, and psoriasis...the body develops so many skin cells trying to fend off the yeast. It suggested a yeast free diet, so I decided to try it, figuring I had nothing to lose. Within a week, 90% of my psoriasis was gone, including the itching and scaling on my scalp. I have entire weeks now with nothing...no itching, scaling, or flaking.

    A couple of days ago, I was doing some reading on SD, and read that there may be a link to yeast again. If so, it makes sense that the yeast reduction diet worked so well on my scalp. A yeast reduction diet means no sugar or sugar by products (honey, fructose etc), no refined products, no yeast, nothing fermented or mouldy eg pickles, mushrooms, soy sauce etc. It sounds like a difficult diet to follow at first, but it is actually rather easy. And, an added side bonus is weight loss! If you need to lose some weight like I did that is... :)

    Anyhow, hope this helps a bit. I am heading to the drug shop now to find a tar shampoo to assist me on the days when my scalp flares up, which it still does the odd time when I get all stressed out.

    :)
    Lou
  • PrahagirlPrahagirl Posts: 1Registered Users
    hello...i don't know if anyone has already mentioned this (as i'm too lazy to read all of the posts), but i get flare ups of SD. I use a prescription foam called Luxiq that works really well. I usually use it for a few days to a week then don't have a flare up for about a year. Maybe talk to your doctor about it. It works really fast. as soon as my scalp starts getting itchy and scaly i use the foam and have relief from the itching by the next day.

    for a more natural approach, apple cider vinegar provides some relief
  • celticgoddesscelticgoddess Posts: 92Registered Users
    auntnett wrote: »
    As for no itching since the beach, Celtic Goddess, I find that salt water often helps all manner of skin problems, so I'm not surprised . . . .
    *celticgoddess adds this to her list of reasons to give the hubby for moving back to Va Beach.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    2c/3a
    "Being a redhead comes from within. Redheadedness is a quality of the person, a state of mind. Red hair is simply an external, physical, manifestation, and a sure giveaway of this state of mind. Because of its beauty, red hair also is a special gift of nature given to redheads in appreciation for our special role in human society. We are only "different" because there are so few of us." -G. Adam Stanislav
  • MalaikaMalaika Posts: 35Registered Users
    I haven't found any great solution for SD. But, when I'm using medicated or Rx shampoos, I wet my hair, and work a low-poo (castile soap or Cream of Nature shampoo) into to just my hair, avoiding my scalp. Then I put the medicated shampoo on my fingers and slide them along my scalp, avoiding the rest of my hair. Then I gently use a scalp scrubber to get to all the effected areas. This way, hopefully, my hair gets what it needs, while my scalp gets what it needs.

    I also use Scalpicin. When I have itching, it calms it down. There are 2 formulas, I use the one with salicylic acid. The other has pyrethicone zinc.

    HTH
  • pelicanopelicano Posts: 580Registered Users
    Just to update, I managed to find one of those Goody anti dandruff hair brushes yesterday, so am giving it a go by brushing it every night and before I wash my hair. :)
    Sarah.

    Based in the UK. 2-something (2b?) hair. Very porous, fine and brittle/fragile

    Hair loves: Drip drying, glycerine, shea butter, oils
    Hair hates: Plopping, any kind of gel, most conditioners (scalp issues).
  • WurlyLoxWurlyLox Posts: 4,858Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Glad you were able to find the brush - as I said, I don't know if it has really helped or if using it in conjunction with everything else has, but at least it feels good! I have to use it carefully or those wire bristles can really get caught in tangles.
    2C/3A/3B - modified CG - fairly fine now, normal/low porosity/normal elasticity

    Current Main Rotation: MG217 medicated or Aim2Health 'poos for scalp, Elucence cond., Spiral Solutions Protein & Deeply Decadent Cond., CJCCCC reg or lite,CJ Pattern Pusha,, Giovanni LA Hold Hair Spritz + lots more, sporadically

    HG Method: Super Soaker + Smasters-ing, brief upside down diffusing w/360o diffuser then clips/clamps & air dry. Newly gray - stopped my henna glosses!

    www.fotki.com/auntnett
  • pelicanopelicano Posts: 580Registered Users
    Yes, I know what you mean!
    :laughing7: I detangle first now, after my initial 'ouch' disaster with it!
    Sarah.

    Based in the UK. 2-something (2b?) hair. Very porous, fine and brittle/fragile

    Hair loves: Drip drying, glycerine, shea butter, oils
    Hair hates: Plopping, any kind of gel, most conditioners (scalp issues).
  • curlylauracurlylaura Posts: 8,352Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    pelicano, where did you get your brush from?
    Fat does not make you fat. It's actually pretty important.
  • pelicanopelicano Posts: 580Registered Users
    Sainsburys, of all places! It was a fairly big store, but I was really surprised to see it there.
    Sarah.

    Based in the UK. 2-something (2b?) hair. Very porous, fine and brittle/fragile

    Hair loves: Drip drying, glycerine, shea butter, oils
    Hair hates: Plopping, any kind of gel, most conditioners (scalp issues).
  • curlylauracurlylaura Posts: 8,352Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Cool! Thanks, I'm going to have to find my nearest Sainsbury's now.
    Fat does not make you fat. It's actually pretty important.
  • mel2173mel2173 Posts: 7Registered Users
    I also have SD. After getting it under good control, I went no poo and it was great. In August, I went on vacation and spent at least 8 hours a day in the pool and ocean with my hair wet the entire time. When I came home, my SD was the worst it has ever been! I am convinced it is a yeast problem. If I let my hair stay wet, it gets worse. I have been using Nizoral since I got home and it has gotten a lot better, but I still have 1 persistent patch that won't go away. If I ever get it under control again, I'll go back to no poo.

    Also,I have read that it you coat your hair in conditioner and then apply the medicated shampoo to your scalp, you won't dry the hair out as bad. I haven't tried it because I'm too lazy.
  • WurlyLoxWurlyLox Posts: 4,858Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    mel2173 wrote: »
    I also have SD. After getting it under good control, I went no poo and it was great. In August, I went on vacation and spent at least 8 hours a day in the pool and ocean with my hair wet the entire time. When I came home, my SD was the worst it has ever been! I am convinced it is a yeast problem. If I let my hair stay wet, it gets worse. I have been using Nizoral since I got home and it has gotten a lot better, but I still have 1 persistent patch that won't go away. If I ever get it under control again, I'll go back to no poo.

    Also,I have read that it you coat your hair in conditioner and then apply the medicated shampoo to your scalp, you won't dry the hair out as bad. I haven't tried it because I'm too lazy.

    Even before I ever heard about CG, that was how I used any dandruff shampoo, hoping the conditioner would somewhat protect hair and preserve the color, too. I haven't had to use Nizoral or anything stronger than GTTTT for about 3 months, but if I have to come winter, I'll still use conditioner first.
    2C/3A/3B - modified CG - fairly fine now, normal/low porosity/normal elasticity

    Current Main Rotation: MG217 medicated or Aim2Health 'poos for scalp, Elucence cond., Spiral Solutions Protein & Deeply Decadent Cond., CJCCCC reg or lite,CJ Pattern Pusha,, Giovanni LA Hold Hair Spritz + lots more, sporadically

    HG Method: Super Soaker + Smasters-ing, brief upside down diffusing w/360o diffuser then clips/clamps & air dry. Newly gray - stopped my henna glosses!

    www.fotki.com/auntnett

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