A New Forum?!?

alisons79alisons79 Posts: 680Registered Users
And I'm the first to post! :)

And it has nothing to do with the topic of the forum!!
3A/3B
I love Jessicurl HCC, Jessicurl Too Shea, KCKT, KCCC, CK and HESMU...but it took a LOT of trial error to get to these products that consistently work for ME.
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Comments

  • KitaraKitara Posts: 1,224Registered Users
    1st runner up. woot.gif
  • OperaCurlsOperaCurls Posts: 1,101Registered Users
    thanks goes to pigreyhound for the new forum :)
    http://public.fotki.com/opera-curls/ (I cut my own hair)
    Pacific Northwest girl, color-treated fine 3B, med-low porosity

    Products: Suave Coconut condish, Giovanni Direct Leave-In, FSG or KCCC, AfroVeda Shea-Amla Cream
    I LOVE HENNA!
  • SystemSystem Posts: 39,060 Administrator
    I am very happy Kitara found this, or I would never have noticed! I think we need this forum, and so I will say why.

    I think natural is good. However, there are many natural ingredients that are potential skin irritants or allergy triggers (this I learned from looking up ingredients on different bottles of stuff I buy). Some natural ingredients are harsher than the ones we here at CG are trying to avoid.

    I think this is an excellent place for discussion. I'll throw something out here.....

    I think cocobetaine (whoa...I know I spelled that wrong....I know it starts with c and ends in betaine :laughing7:) makes my head itch. I used two low-poo shampoos with that in it, and had a terribly itchy scalp. I don't know if that would be considered a natural ingredient though. So let's start with Horsetail Extract. Anyone had a problem with products containing that?
  • notegalnotegal Posts: 560Registered Users
    woot! an All natural forum! I love it! :toothy7:
    "The world is a fine place and worth fighting for."
    Ernest Hemingway


    CG since June 15th, 2008:dog::love5::elephant:
    3b very thick hair with very kinky (possibly 3c) curls underneath
    Went Deva Care line beginning
    September 23, 2009
    Update: 10/12/2009 I can't stop playing with my curls!! So soft, shiny and manageable!!!! IN LOVE WITH DEVA Products!!!!!! YIPPPIE!!!!:wav:




  • FeedYourHeadFeedYourHead Posts: 248Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    HAIR: Natural food! *slurps up the last of FeedYourHead's NG Hemp
    Name: FeedYourHead's Hair

    Description: 3A/3B/2C in the back, Botticelli, medium, thick, low porosity, modified CG since 2008

    Likes: Shea Moisture Manuka Honey & Mafura Oil sulfate-free shampoo; Curls Coconut Curlada conditioner; KCKT; LA Looks Extreme Sport Gel; coconut oil; honey; banana hair masks
    Dislikes: Silicones (:thumbdown:), Hairbrushes (:eek:) and harsh detergents (:protest:)
  • justa.grrljusta.grrl Posts: 85Registered Users
    So glad someone has started this kind of post. Thanks! :wav:

    It seems a bit more tedious to go beyond removing sulfates/silicones, so to have a reference point for products without parabens and many other chemicals/irritants in one place is wunderbar.

    "Mostly organic" is acceptable to me as long as the above mentioned prerequisites are met.
  • Riot CrrlRiot Crrl Posts: 3,135Registered Users
    I have a question. How natural is all natural? How long is a piece of string?

    Are we supposed to talk about commercial products with natural ingredients? I think we can talk about henna and aloe vera juice and oil and vinegar, but there seems a grey area. Is this a good place to talk about Aubrey Organics or 365 Everyday Value conditioner?

    OK I guess that was four questions, and one of them was OT and rhetorical. :)
  • PrettyPorcupinePrettyPorcupine Posts: 258Registered Users
    I'm guessing this thread will be a little of both. Discussions of "purely natural" products like those found in your pantry (honey, olive oil) and discussion of products claiming to be "pure, organic," etc.

    Of course every product out there claims to have "natural ingredients," but the claim is mostly bogus and even when true, the supposed benefits of such ingredients is highly suspect at best.:angry7:
    Modified CG. You'll pry my 'cones from my cold dead fingers! Mixed waves, coarse, below shoulder length, dark brown. I hate my hair :evil: but I'm trying to learn to accept it.

    Gels: LA Looks Wet Look Styling Gel, Garnier Fructis Wet Shine Gel. Condish: Alberto V05 Free Me Fresia, Tresemme' Flawless Curls, LVPNG, Neutrogena Triple Moisture. Shampoo: Tresemme' Flawless Curls. Silicone Serum: Whatever is on sale, but I don't leave home without it.
  • orangeorange Posts: 176Registered Users
    Great idea for a forum! I for one would like to talk about all-natural commercial products like Aubrey and MHC here.

  • ibraidhairibraidhair Posts: 343Registered Users
    Maybe we need a little more specific description from the one responsible for starting this section of the forum?
  • Curly Girl FlaCurly Girl Fla Posts: 1,834Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    All-Natural is a very subjective term, IMO. The detox group that I believe requested this forum is following the Terressential Product line format. I think any chemically processed ingredient even from only all-natural sources is not considered natural. So, if there is an item with one chemically derived from natural ingred preservative, while the rest is "all natural", the product is not considered to be. Also, they are big on "organic"... I could be very wrong here, but this is just what I gathered on the surface. I would love to be all natural, great in theory, and right now I think the CV 'poo bars are as close as I'll come with any one product....I think!
  • JaxieJaxie Posts: 1,282Registered Users
    All-Natural is a very subjective term, IMO. The detox group that I believe requested this forum is following the Terressential Product line format. I think any chemically processed ingredient even from only all-natural sources is not considered natural. So, if there is an item with one chemically derived from natural ingred preservative, while the rest is "all natural", the product is not considered to be. Also, they are big on "organic"... I could be very wrong here, but this is just what I gathered on the surface. I would love to be all natural, great in theory, and right now I think the CV 'poo bars are as close as I'll come with any one product....I think!
    Just wanted to say that you have GORGEOUS hair!
    2c or 3a Cut most of my hair off in July '12 and am working on regrowing it.
  • scarriecarriescarriecarrie Posts: 382Registered Users
    I am so excited about this new forum!!! I have been trying to stick to all natural products for my hair. Products with chemicals seem to sit on my hair and build up or make it like straw. Karen's Body Beautiful needs to be included in this all natural forum. Her stuff is awesome!!!!!
    Mostly 3A/Some 3B Thick/Dry/Colored/SL
    Loving natural products. Some of my favorites are:
    MHC Scalp Cleanser, Donna Marie Miracurl Gelly, Robert Craig Conditionerloveshower.gif
  • pigreyhoundpigreyhound Posts: 764Registered Users
    Well, I don't want to be the one to set the rules since I am not sure I have the answers....

    However, these are my opinions:

    1. Natural means that when you look at the list of ingredients on your hair products you recognize them and know what they are....kind of like when you read food labels. The list is like a recipe, not a chemistry experiment.
    2. There isn't anything inherently wrong with commercially made products, it is just that this forum is really to discuss products that are natural....either homemade or commercially made as long as the ingredients are items like aloe vera, shea butter, olive oil, etc.
    3. Now the organic issue is interesting. I think all organic products are wonderful and an ideal, however, I don't know if limiting our products to 100% certified organic products would be reasonable.

    In the end, if I recognize the ingredients in the hair products, I figure it is natural.
    Growing out my curls. White hair, fine to medium texture but a lot of it. Low to medium porosity. Botticelli curls -- 2c/3a mix. My hair loves protein.
    CG since '08.

    Cleanser: (Summer) Beautiful Curls Nurturing shampoo or Kathymack's soap bars
    Co-wash: TJ Nourish
    Protein: CJ Repair Me
    Styling products: (Summer) BB Styling Mudd
    Gel: (Summer) BRHG, Upper Management gel.
  • GretchenGretchen Administrator Posts: 10,840Moderators Curl Virtuoso
    Thanks to pigreyhound for suggesting this forum.

    I'd say you can create as many threads as you like to discuss as many topics as you like.

    I hope you have fun here!

    Gretchen
    NaturallyCurly.com co-founder
    3A

    You are beautiful!
  • kathymackkathymack Posts: 9,999Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Something else to remember, they frequently use the chemical names for natural products, like the botanicals, vitamins, etc. Some of the chemicals are derived from natural sources--where would you put them? It's not all that simple.
    3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
    SE PA

    HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Aloe Fix
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • pigreyhoundpigreyhound Posts: 764Registered Users
    kathymack wrote: »
    Something else to remember, they frequently use the chemical names for natural products, like the botanicals, vitamins, etc. Some of the chemicals are derived from natural sources--where would you put them? It's not all that simple.

    True enough. It isn't simple, and I don't want to become some sort of ingredient police, but we are making an attempt to use and discuss recognizable, natural products on the forum, so we may need to pay attention to our labels, know our ingredients and do research on what we are using.
    Growing out my curls. White hair, fine to medium texture but a lot of it. Low to medium porosity. Botticelli curls -- 2c/3a mix. My hair loves protein.
    CG since '08.

    Cleanser: (Summer) Beautiful Curls Nurturing shampoo or Kathymack's soap bars
    Co-wash: TJ Nourish
    Protein: CJ Repair Me
    Styling products: (Summer) BB Styling Mudd
    Gel: (Summer) BRHG, Upper Management gel.
  • Curly Girl FlaCurly Girl Fla Posts: 1,834Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Jaxie, thank you-your comment made my day! :blush:
    kathymack wrote: »
    Something else to remember, they frequently use the chemical names for natural products, like the botanicals, vitamins, etc. Some of the chemicals are derived from natural sources--where would you put them? It's not all that simple.
    This has always been an issue for me, which is one reason I mentioned it, too. I hope this forum will help give me some personal clarity as to what I would like to use when considering natural hair care.
    Kudos to pigreyhound & nc.com powers that be! This will be a great place to summarize everyone's thoughts and fact-based material...
  • swirlygirlswirlygirl Posts: 606Registered Users
    kathymack wrote: »
    Something else to remember, they frequently use the chemical names for natural products, like the botanicals, vitamins, etc. Some of the chemicals are derived from natural sources--where would you put them? It's not all that simple.

    True enough. It isn't simple, and I don't want to become some sort of ingredient police, but we are making an attempt to use and discuss recognizable, natural products on the forum, so we may need to pay attention to our labels, know our ingredients and do research on what we are using.

    I think the process the natural things go through to become the chemicals is important, too. And, like Curly Girl Fla, I would like to learn more about these things. IMHO, I think informative posts and questions/discussions about the above would be helpful and appropriate for this forum.
    2B ~ Lovin' it short again!
    Aloe 80 Shampoo & Conditioner, Shea Butter & Aveda Control Paste
    Fotki PW: swirlygirl
    Updated 7/13/08


  • Riot CrrlRiot Crrl Posts: 3,135Registered Users
    Natural means that when you look at the list of ingredients on your hair products you recognize them and know what they are....kind of like when you read food labels. The list is like a recipe, not a chemistry experiment.

    But I recognize some of the "chemicals" and know what they are.

    Also, everything's a chemical. We are bags of chemicals walking around. If you can read this, your brain is doing chemistry right now.
  • Curly Girl FlaCurly Girl Fla Posts: 1,834Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    This all got me wondering about defining natural. I haven't looked in detail, but found the following from Naturalnews.com:
    . By that definition, anything derived from plants, animals or elements found on planet Earth could earn the "all natural" label. The key is in understanding that it's the process that's unnatural, not the source. When you chemically or structurally alter food ingredients into a form that no longer appears anywhere in nature, it's no longer natural, folks.


    And from another source-looks like an Aussie manufacturer ultimately-talking here about salicylic acid, but this applies to other ingredients:
    Let me introduce a 'new' term "Holistically-natural", what do I mean by this term? I propose, that this term may be of use to describe the type of product that has not been overly modified. That means, "Holistically-natural" would accept the alcohol extraction of all the ingredients, but would not except the additional step of extracting [whatever substance] out of the alcohol-extracted ingredients. Similarly, essential oils are extracted from their parent plant by a variety of means, including, cold-pressed, steam distillation and others. "Holistically-natural", would be applicable to essential oils, which have been extracted by the most appropriate form, but would not apply to further isolation, or manipulation of the derived essential oil.

    http://www.freshfromthefarm.us/naturalallnaturalholisticallynaturalorpseudonaturalthatisthequestion.html

    For me, personally, I think holistically natural is a realistic concept for what I would look for. And I may not always recognize the item, but I may be ignorant about alot of naturally occurring components as well...
    Sorry if this is a stupid post...I'm just sort of thinking out loud...my husband often tells me to stop doing that...
  • pigreyhoundpigreyhound Posts: 764Registered Users
    You go right ahead and think/write out loud. I process that way also.

    This forum is just an extension of the thread we had on detoxing our hair. Whether a person can actually detox hair -- or whether a person can truly use all natural products or define all-natural products -- I don't have the answers....

    What we are trying to do is use products that are as holistic as possible. It is an extension of CG that interests us and I hope interests other people, also.
    Growing out my curls. White hair, fine to medium texture but a lot of it. Low to medium porosity. Botticelli curls -- 2c/3a mix. My hair loves protein.
    CG since '08.

    Cleanser: (Summer) Beautiful Curls Nurturing shampoo or Kathymack's soap bars
    Co-wash: TJ Nourish
    Protein: CJ Repair Me
    Styling products: (Summer) BB Styling Mudd
    Gel: (Summer) BRHG, Upper Management gel.
  • swirlygirlswirlygirl Posts: 606Registered Users
    Sorry if this is a stupid post...I'm just sort of thinking out loud...my husband often tells me to stop doing that...

    I don't think it is stupid at all, Curly Girl Fla! That is very helpful. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I also thought it was the process that was most important! Thanks for the additional research.

    Here is some info I got from TE, sort of related to this topic...(this is snipped from a slightly longer email, which I posted in its entirety in the detox thread and I added the underline).

    Regarding your question about compatibility of other companies' products, unfortunately, unless a product and all of the ingredients are USDA certified organic and the finished product bears a USDA seal on the front label of each product, one has no way of knowing what is really in that product as there has been no third-party verification of ingredients and processing methods. The same can be said about individual ingredients that may be sold through a distributor. Unless individual ingredients are purchased directly from the manufacturer of the ingredients or a certified organic distributor, AND are accompanied by a USDA organic certificate for that ingredient, an individual consumer (or the retailer) has NO WAY of determining or knowing if those ingredients have been industrially processed -- altered.

    For example, there are a many "natural butters" being sold in the marketplace which have actually been heavily chemically-processed and refined so that they are really fractionated or hydrogenated synthetics-- "derived from" a natural oil/butter. Materials processed like this can leave heavy, waxy and plastic-like coatings on the hair which can be difficult for our Hair Wash to remove.

    We cannot say that products made by other companies are compatible with our Hair Wash. We'd like to point out that, over the years, we have seen many products that have a function that does not match the ingredients listed on their labels. We know that some manufacturers use ingredients in their products that may not be listed on the product label. For example, a shampoo, conditioner or styling product may contain petrochemical plastic polymers or thickening agents, chemical surfactants or emollients, or preservatives that are not listed or identified properly on the label.

    About your product question number 4, if one is mixing flax seeds with boiling water at home and using the home-made flax gel on their hair, this recipe would not pose a compatibility problem with our Hair Wash.
    2B ~ Lovin' it short again!
    Aloe 80 Shampoo & Conditioner, Shea Butter & Aveda Control Paste
    Fotki PW: swirlygirl
    Updated 7/13/08


  • misspammisspam Posts: 5,318Registered Users
    All this discussion concerning the definition of "natural" clearly shows how the word has lost it's meaning. It can mean so many things to so many people.

    The meaning I apply to the word natural is more clearly defined as non-synthetic. Take glycerin, for example. Vegetable glycerin is derived from natural origins, but is extracted through chemical means. Technically, this ingredient should not be defined as natural however, I still use it. I cannot find any information telling me whether or not chemical residues are found in the final product. Maybe someone else will have better luck.

    A similar process is used in the saponification process to make Chagrin Valley soap and shampoo bars for example. The caustic chemical lye is used for saponification, however it is not present in the finished product. I would still call that finished product natural.

    We're all here to learn from each other. Each of us has different goals as far as to what degree natural or organic we would like to strive for. :)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Riot CrrlRiot Crrl Posts: 3,135Registered Users
    We're all here to learn from each other. Each of us has different goals as far as to what degree natural or organic we would like to strive for.

    Yeah, point. I know no one here is suggesting this, but I have a concern I'll throw out there. If it turns into that this forum is only for those who want to fully embrace the Terresentials lifestyle, even if it's only because of their own perception, I fear it will become underpopulated.

    Example: I'm no longer a vegan and haven't been for years and years. I am still very interested in vegan cooking. On some vegan forums, even if I have good information and recipes to share, this could get me flamed if someone finds out I've been over at the sushi bar snarfing down raw fish. Depending on the administration, possibly even banned. (I know the administration and membership here wouldn't want that to be done, I'm just making one of my usual flawed analogies.)

    I'm interested in natural hair care to an extent, but I'm not ready to have the Biotera (or the sushi) pried out of my cold, dead fingers just yet.
  • swirlygirlswirlygirl Posts: 606Registered Users
    Riot Crrl wrote: »
    We're all here to learn from each other. Each of us has different goals as far as to what degree natural or organic we would like to strive for.

    Yeah, point. I know no one here is suggesting this, but I have a concern I'll throw out there. If it turns into that this forum is only for those who want to fully embrace the Terresentials lifestyle, even if it's only because of their own perception, I fear it will become underpopulated.

    Example: I'm no longer a vegan and haven't been for years and years. I am still very interested in vegan cooking. On some vegan forums, even if I have good information and recipes to share, this could get me flamed if someone finds out I've been over at the sushi bar snarfing down raw fish. Depending on the administration, possibly even banned. (I know the administration and membership here wouldn't want that to be done, I'm just making one of my usual flawed analogies.)

    I'm interested in natural hair care to an extent, but I'm not ready to have the Biotera (or the sushi) pried out of my cold, dead fingers just yet.

    I wouldn't want it to become only for people interested in the TE lifestyle. I don't know if any of us have fully signed on to that, anyway. :laughing7:

    I think your example is a good one. Personally, I wouldn't care if someone who loves BRHG, Biotera, sulfates, cones, whatever posts a question or thread in this forum if it somehow relevant. I do, however, think it would be in poor taste for someone to suggest synthetic products to people trying to avoid them. (e.g., oh, you're having frizz - try some BHRG for that!)

    I don't think you are going on the vegan boards and suggesting they go eat raw fish! :wink: This is by no means suggesting that would happen here, just giving more examples and thinking out loud.

    I do hope the forum is used by any and all who are interested in natural, whatever that means to them.
    2B ~ Lovin' it short again!
    Aloe 80 Shampoo & Conditioner, Shea Butter & Aveda Control Paste
    Fotki PW: swirlygirl
    Updated 7/13/08


  • misspammisspam Posts: 5,318Registered Users
    Riot Crrl wrote: »
    We're all here to learn from each other. Each of us has different goals as far as to what degree natural or organic we would like to strive for.

    Yeah, point. I know no one here is suggesting this, but I have a concern I'll throw out there. If it turns into that this forum is only for those who want to fully embrace the Terresentials lifestyle, even if it's only because of their own perception, I fear it will become underpopulated.

    Example: I'm no longer a vegan and haven't been for years and years. I am still very interested in vegan cooking. On some vegan forums, even if I have good information and recipes to share, this could get me flamed if someone finds out I've been over at the sushi bar snarfing down raw fish. Depending on the administration, possibly even banned. (I know the administration and membership here wouldn't want that to be done, I'm just making one of my usual flawed analogies.)

    I'm interested in natural hair care to an extent, but I'm not ready to have the Biotera (or the sushi) pried out of my cold, dead fingers just yet.

    Well, like you stated, no one here has even remotely suggested you must embrace any product line, to be sure. This new forum was created at the request of a member who happens to use Terressentials products. pigreyhound, as well as the rest of us Detox Divas are using a variety of products from different companies. It may appear that we are the only ones here, but this forum is not even 12 hours old. Don't count us out yet! :wink:

    Many others have expressed interest in a more natural type of haircare, and not only Terressentials products. How about Chagrin Valley, MHC, Curls by Sisters Smith, Dr. Bronners, just to name a few. This forum is purely an extension of our interest in natural, organic, or homemade products. Everyone is welcome here, just as we all are on any forum. No one is here to talk you out of your favorite products either. I wouldn't dream of getting in between a curly and her favorite gel! :)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Riot CrrlRiot Crrl Posts: 3,135Registered Users
    Oh yes, I totally had hoped to preempt any implication that I believe this is already happening; I do not believe that at all. It was more just a thought about the future.

    I would not enjoy for people to be advised in this forum that they have to use commercial products or face certain doom, but likewise I would not enjoy to see "Oh, the clay mask didn't work? Well duh, throw away the Suave and come back in two weeks." Not that it would. Again, another of my flawed extemist examples.
  • swirlygirlswirlygirl Posts: 606Registered Users
    Riot Crrl wrote: »
    I would not enjoy for people to be advised in this forum that they have to use commercial products or face certain doom, but likewise I would not enjoy to see "Oh, the clay mask didn't work? Well duh, throw away the Suave and come back in two weeks." Not that it would.

    Agree. I think as a whole people at nc.com are really respectful of each other and our individual choices. (As has been mentioned in the advice awards thread.) I think we're pretty safe from anyone suggesting we go against our own goals or what works for us, but it never hurts to put it out there for discussion. I don't know that I'd call it a flawed example. Extremist maybe :wink:, but not flawed. :)
    2B ~ Lovin' it short again!
    Aloe 80 Shampoo & Conditioner, Shea Butter & Aveda Control Paste
    Fotki PW: swirlygirl
    Updated 7/13/08


  • misspammisspam Posts: 5,318Registered Users
    Riot Crrl wrote: »
    Oh yes, I totally had hoped to preempt any implication that I believe this is already happening; I do not believe that at all. It was more just a thought about the future.

    I would not enjoy for people to be advised in this forum that they have to use commercial products or face certain doom, but likewise I would not enjoy to see "Oh, the clay mask didn't work? Well duh, throw away the Suave and come back in two weeks." Not that it would. Again, another of my flawed extemist examples.

    I think you might be confusing some of us with militant organic types! :laughing7::laughing7:(I am not laughing at you here) I swear, I don't enjoy granola, I do not own a pair of Birkenstock sandals, I do not own one piece of hemp clothing. I am just a normal 45 year old chick, doing what I can to minimize harmful chemical exposure in my beauty routine. I'm perfectly harmless. :)

    We welcome you here Riot Crrl! You are very knowledgeable about ingredients and I enjoy reading all your posts.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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