A Reason why GUN CONTROL isn't a good thing..

notegalnotegal Posts: 560Registered Users
This is 1 of 3 parts of a speech given by Suzanna Hupp in Chicago. Some may already know who this is, others can hear her story here.
Now for some they may not want to hear this, but this is an important message that I am not afraid to share. Pro Gunners will appreciate this...anti gunners will not. However, I think people need to get out of the mind set of "It won't happen to me." You can't tell the future...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oux_W279_y4&feature=related
"The world is a fine place and worth fighting for."
Ernest Hemingway


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  • Myradella3Myradella3 Posts: 2,481Registered Users
    I stopped shooting at age 12. I was in 8th grade and just didn't want to go out hunting anymore. No gun problems, just didn't like activity. My point is that I'm not anti-gun. I'm curious though - what do you think are reasonable guidelines for ownership.

    Any age? For sale at Walgreens? instant background check? cooling off period? certain types of guns in certain areas? Anybody - any gun?
  • battinlashbattinlash Posts: 1,850Registered Users
    I am a supporter of the second amendment as long as the guns are sold legally, to law-abiding and mentally stable adults.
    • Mandatory background check
    • Mandatory waiting period (3 days seems reasonable)
    • Proof of mental stability - though I'm not sure what the best way to achieve this would be.
    • Gun locks if the weapon is going to be stored in a household with young children
    • I think assault weapons should be banned for personal use. It's all well and good to protect yourself, but there is no need for anyone to keep an arsenal of machine guns in the basement. To point, there should also be a limit to the number of weapons one can own without a special permit (e.g, if you're a collector).
    • Guns should never be sold where minors are allowed to shop freely. Not Kmart, not WalMart, not Walgreen's! If you want a gun, go to a gun dealer or a gun show.
    Guns have provided protection and security for hundreds of years, but we're a civilized society and for the protection of the masses (think school shootings) we need to keep some sort of positive control on the weapons that our citizens carry around.
  • notegalnotegal Posts: 560Registered Users
    tantrum wrote: »
    I am a supporter of the second amendment as long as the guns are sold legally, to law-abiding and mentally stable adults.
    • Mandatory background check IF you want to purchase a firearm you have to go through a background check...only CRIMINALS don't do background checks...THINK Black Market...
    • Mandatory waiting period (3 days seems reasonable) I personally had to wait 5 days before receiving my firearm.
    • Proof of mental stability - though I'm not sure what the best way to achieve this would be. A Doctor's note? I'm not sure about this one...
    • Gun locks if the weapon is going to be stored in a household with young children This is common sense really...and another thing if you have children EDUCATE THEM! That's the best way for them to learn it's A TOOL NOT A TOY.
    • I think assault weapons should be banned for personal use. It's all well and good to protect yourself, but there is no need for anyone to keep an arsenal of machine guns in the basement. To point, there should also be a limit to the number of weapons one can own without a special permit (e.g, if you're a collector). Our military uses what you would assume as assault weapon. Efficiency over death? I think they would like to be more efficient when shooting the enemy to protect our country.
    • Guns should never be sold where minors are allowed to shop freely. Not Kmart, not WalMart, not Walgreen's! If you want a gun, go to a gun dealer or a gun show. AGAIN it goes back to EDUCATION. IF Parents teach their children how to use the TOOL properly than there won't be any accidents. Again...it's a TOOL NOT A TOY. I'm mixed on this though, since you can find ammo much cheaper at a Walmart than a gun dealer and btw, Kmart doesn't sell firearms and neither does Walgreens.
    Guns have provided protection and security for hundreds of years, but we're a civilized society and for the protection of the masses (think school shootings) we need to keep some sort of positive control on the weapons that our citizens carry around.
    Words for thought...check gun statistics...for schools and any city or place for that matter that do allow people to carry whether it's open or concealed the crime rates and shootings DROP! Look at the facts and see that guns actually can be a positive. Wouldn't you want to be able to protect yourself if you have a psycho attemptin to kill you at point blank range? Wouldn't you want to be his equal? Would you rather LIVE or DIE?

    I'm being serious here folks, and I don't mean to sound harsh, but when it comes down to the reality of the situation it is harsh. The more we can educate people about the use of firearms the better off we will be able to protect our lives and our freedoms.
    "The world is a fine place and worth fighting for."
    Ernest Hemingway


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  • wild~hairwild~hair Posts: 9,890Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I love the EH quote in your sig, notegal.

    As Eckhart Tolle once put it, I guess Hemingway forgot that when he put a gun to his head and pulled the trigger.




    Note that this post has absolutely nothing to do with my opinion on gun laws. [Believe it or not.]
  • curlygirl81curlygirl81 Posts: 127Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    notegal wrote: »
    Words for thought...check gun statistics...for schools and any city or place for that matter that do allow people to carry whether it's open or concealed the crime rates and shootings DROP! Look at the facts and see that guns actually can be a positive. Wouldn't you want to be able to protect yourself if you have a psycho attemptin to kill you at point blank range? Wouldn't you want to be his equal? Would you rather LIVE or DIE?

    I'm being serious here folks, and I don't mean to sound harsh, but when it comes down to the reality of the situation it is harsh. The more we can educate people about the use of firearms the better off we will be able to protect our lives and our freedoms.

    Right on Notegal!!

    I think people who are anti-gun should put a sign in their yard that says "Gun-Free Zone"
  • CurlyGina2CurlyGina2 Posts: 1,048Registered Users
    I've always wondered about stolen guns, about how many guns are stolen from people's homes each year, etc...how many are stolen from people who bought them legally.
  • notegalnotegal Posts: 560Registered Users
    I'm sorry I'm confused. How does this have anything to do with Gun Control....:confused: It's another way that criminals acquire guns. However, we must remember they are called criminals for a reason, they do not do things legally.
    "The world is a fine place and worth fighting for."
    Ernest Hemingway


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  • CurlyGina2CurlyGina2 Posts: 1,048Registered Users
    notegal wrote: »
    I'm sorry I'm confused. How does this have anything to do with Gun Control....:confused: It's another way that criminals acquire guns. However, we must remember they are called criminals for a reason, they do not do things legally.

    It was a passing thought. Some recent news stories about stolen guns:

    http://www.myfoxstl.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=7304012&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1

    http://www.koco.com/news/17317682/detail.html

    http://blog.mlive.com/citpat/2008/08/lansing_teens_found_in_jackson.html


    The only statistics I could find on stolen guns were dodgy at best. I wonder why.
  • notegalnotegal Posts: 560Registered Users
    Well sometimes it's hard to get the exact numbers. It's not a bad question at all.
    "The world is a fine place and worth fighting for."
    Ernest Hemingway


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  • Myradella3Myradella3 Posts: 2,481Registered Users
    Why can't guns be sold openly? Hammers and knives can be. Rat poison is sold at Kroger. Why not an Uzi?
  • notegalnotegal Posts: 560Registered Users
    That's the way it should be, however our lovely government doesn't want that. They keep trying to control every gun purchaser's move. They keep making it harder and harder to buy guns. A society with guns is a bad thing in the eyes of some of our officials. That's means we have more power than them. I don't see why anyone should take that away though.
    You want an example of a society without guns look at Britain. Now they ban knives and have a Jack the Ripper case back on their hands.

    If the people actually were equal to the criminals, the criminals would think twice about robbing them and acting out in horrible manners.

    I carry to protect myself. That guy who wants to rape and rob me has another thing coming (as harsh as it may sound, but what's more harsh? Me dying or the criminal getting what he deserves?) I value my life much more.
    "The world is a fine place and worth fighting for."
    Ernest Hemingway


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  • CurlyGina2CurlyGina2 Posts: 1,048Registered Users
    So we should all CARRY guns with us wherever we go? that will make us safer? Ack.
  • notegalnotegal Posts: 560Registered Users
    Actually, statistics have shown those that can carry in cities makes crime rates drop. Funny how that works isn't it? :wink: So you would rather live than die when the guy robs you on the street? (I know, harsh question, but still it's a thought to think about)

    Hint, The NRA has proof of this and any woman or man at a gun forum can tell you this too.
    "The world is a fine place and worth fighting for."
    Ernest Hemingway


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  • Myradella3Myradella3 Posts: 2,481Registered Users
    notegal wrote: »
    Actually, statistics have shown those that can carry in cities makes crime rates drop. Funny how that works isn't it? :wink: So you would rather live than die when the guy robs you on the street? (I know, harsh question, but still it's a thought to think about)

    Hint, The NRA has proof of this and any woman or man at a gun forum can tell you this too.

    If that's what the stats say, why aren't guns sold on the open market like other items that can be used for sport, fun, or harm? Take a state like Texas, Republican and conservative - why doesn't it stand up for the 2nd amendment for its citizens? The Republicans controlled Congress 2000-2006, why no gun emphasis? Especially in light of the rising crime rate?
  • pelicanopelicano Posts: 580Registered Users
    notegal wrote: »
    You want an example of a society without guns look at Britain. Now they ban knives and have a Jack the Ripper case back on their hands.

    Sorry, what?? Do you mean Jack the Ripper of 1888? :confused4:
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  • notegalnotegal Posts: 560Registered Users
    Because the people let the government take that right away. I don't disagree with you. I think they should be sold outright. However I also think people should be very educated on how to use them. It's not the gun that is bad, is the person behind the trigger that is bad. The gun is an inanimate object. People are the ones who use them to make them work. Guns just don't go off on their own.
    "The world is a fine place and worth fighting for."
    Ernest Hemingway


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  • notegalnotegal Posts: 560Registered Users
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4581871.stm
    This is just one story about it. in Britain they can't carry guns so for people to protect themselves they found an alternative, or for the criminals to rob the people they also found an alternative. Knives have been banned and people now need permits just to have kitchen knives. :sad8: However, it's been causing an increase in knife crime in current times. Hence my reference to Jack the Ripper.
    "The world is a fine place and worth fighting for."
    Ernest Hemingway


    CG since June 15th, 2008:dog::love5::elephant:
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  • pelicanopelicano Posts: 580Registered Users
    I'm really loathe to get into this discussion (as I know it's a big one for you in the US), but I do have to say that I am very glad as a Brit not to have people going around carrying guns.
    Sarah.

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  • Blood_RedBlood_Red Posts: 49Registered Users
    pelicano wrote: »
    I'm really loathe to get into this discussion (as I know it's a big one for you in the US), but I do have to say that I am very glad as a Brit not to have people going around carrying guns.

    Agreed.
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  • Myradella3Myradella3 Posts: 2,481Registered Users
    notegal wrote: »
    Because the people let the government take that right away. I don't disagree with you. I think they should be sold outright. However I also think people should be very educated on how to use them. It's not the gun that is bad, is the person behind the trigger that is bad. The gun is an inanimate object. People are the ones who use them to make them work. Guns just don't go off on their own.

    But there's no formal education on rat poison or knives. Guns are really no different. Knives don't slip across someone's heart. Bad people scam folks via the phone but there's no formal education for phones. If guns should be free and available to everyone, they should be free and available to everyone. If that's what the second amendment says, then support fully.
  • notegalnotegal Posts: 560Registered Users
    I support it fully, but some people don't. People educate their children on rat poison. We tell them not to eat it cause it will hurt them. It goes the same for firearms. Show them how to use it as a tool whether it's for hunting, fun or protection. The 2nd amendment was written for a reason. The people have let the government change it over time because the government wants the guns...hopefully that changes now.
    "The world is a fine place and worth fighting for."
    Ernest Hemingway


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  • Myradella3Myradella3 Posts: 2,481Registered Users
    I wonder why the Republican party and the NRA don't advocate for open gun sales. Parents educate their kids about eating veggies and drinking milk; tell them not to touch a hot stove or stick their fingers in an electical socket. The problem with mandating education is that someone will specify just what has to be taught and by whom. My grandfather taught me to shoot. Would that qualify me to own a gun if education was mandated? My grandfather was illiterate. He probably couldn't pass a written test. So could he be deemed educated enough to own a gun?
  • notegalnotegal Posts: 560Registered Users
    Myradella3 wrote: »
    I wonder why the Republican party and the NRA don't advocate for open gun sales. Parents educate their kids about eating veggies and drinking milk; tell them not to touch a hot stove or stick their fingers in an electical socket. The problem with mandating education is that someone will specify just what has to be taught and by whom. My grandfather taught me to shoot. Would that qualify me to own a gun if education was mandated? My grandfather was illiterate. He probably couldn't pass a written test. So could he be deemed educated enough to own a gun?

    That's the type of education I'm talking about. The kind that just starts in the home. It's exactly what you are talking about. Hey as long as he taught you the right things there are no problems. My b/f taught me how to shoot, how to point it, where to point it. From there I took a concealed carry course to learn more. I don't have a problem with that and I'm not saying it should mandated.
    Look I wish it were that easy. I wish people thought with common sense and just realized certain issues are put in place for a reason.
    However, back to your Republican issue. Look let's face it. Bush isn't a true Conservative. If you get the right people in office who are for pro gun rights and pro NRA I'm sure you will have a lot of people stepping up and hear many things to put your ideas into place. The other way is to talk to your senators and officials and tell them what you think. They are the servants to the people. They are the ones who want to know what you want. Now the trick is to elect the right officials who actually care about the government and not just what the government wants. :wink:
    Look, I'm for your ideas, (selling them anywhere, and so fourth) and have absolutely no problem with what you bring to the board. We just have to tell everyone else that and give guns a good name, not a bad name. If folks are responsible with their guns it gives guns a good name. What doesn't give guns a good name is the media and of course the government. So there we go back full circle to the government and who's controlling our guns (If you see my point).

    I would say start with your officals. Look at joining the NRA. The NRA helps so much with fighting for your right. Your money pays for cases such as Heller vs. D.C. :glasses9: You can talk about this for hours at other sites. PM me if you want the sites.

    And by the way the point I'm trying to make is people need to be responsible with the tools that they use. It's common sense and I don't think that has anything to do with illiteracy.
    "The world is a fine place and worth fighting for."
    Ernest Hemingway


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  • Myradella3Myradella3 Posts: 2,481Registered Users
    I don't see the need for the NRA. We have a 2nd amendment, let those who support it with no holes barred do just that. Don't pander, don't suck up...just sell guns to whereever to whomever for whatever.
  • notegalnotegal Posts: 560Registered Users
    :laughing7: :laughing7: Ok, I won't Pander. We have the 2nd Amendment, you're right. They should be sold where ever.
    "The world is a fine place and worth fighting for."
    Ernest Hemingway


    CG since June 15th, 2008:dog::love5::elephant:
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  • curlygirl81curlygirl81 Posts: 127Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Myradella3 wrote: »
    I don't see the need for the NRA. We have a 2nd amendment, let those who support it with no holes barred do just that. Don't pander, don't suck up...just sell guns to whereever to whomever for whatever.

    The NRA is highly instrumental in beating back the gun grabbers. Anytime a city tries to pass gun control laws, the NRA is right there suing them over obstructing our Constitutional right to bear arms. They've won several cases of this nature. Without the NRA, we would mostly be unarmed.
  • CurlyGina2CurlyGina2 Posts: 1,048Registered Users
    pelicano wrote: »
    I'm really loathe to get into this discussion (as I know it's a big one for you in the US), but I do have to say that I am very glad as a Brit not to have people going around carrying guns.

    I agree. Only in America :angry7::thumbdown:
  • notegalnotegal Posts: 560Registered Users
    CurlyGina2 wrote: »
    pelicano wrote: »
    I'm really loathe to get into this discussion (as I know it's a big one for you in the US), but I do have to say that I am very glad as a Brit not to have people going around carrying guns.

    I agree. Only in America :angry7::thumbdown:

    You may be against it cause it hasn't happened to you yet or anyone you know. However, when something does happen you tend to think twice about protecting yourself and even your family. We have the right, we should choose to use it. You want to be the one without the weapon when the bad guy comes on the street, fine. I don't. I'd rather be alive.
    "The world is a fine place and worth fighting for."
    Ernest Hemingway


    CG since June 15th, 2008:dog::love5::elephant:
    3b very thick hair with very kinky (possibly 3c) curls underneath
    Went Deva Care line beginning
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  • curlygirl81curlygirl81 Posts: 127Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    CurlyGina2 wrote: »
    pelicano wrote: »
    I'm really loathe to get into this discussion (as I know it's a big one for you in the US), but I do have to say that I am very glad as a Brit not to have people going around carrying guns.

    I agree. Only in America :angry7::thumbdown:

    Yeah, you're right. It would be much better to have some radical Muslim bash your door in, rape your daughter, and get away with it.
  • CurlyGina2CurlyGina2 Posts: 1,048Registered Users
    CurlyGina2 wrote: »
    pelicano wrote: »
    I'm really loathe to get into this discussion (as I know it's a big one for you in the US), but I do have to say that I am very glad as a Brit not to have people going around carrying guns.

    I agree. Only in America :angry7::thumbdown:

    Yeah, you're right. It would be much better to have some radical Muslim bash your door in, rape your daughter, and get away with it.

    Wow! You clearly have something against Muslims, with all of your comments. Yep, on my ignore list you go!

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