CurlTalk

Cyclomethicone

marinacurlzmarinacurlz Posts: 1,720Registered Users
First off I hoped I spelled that right. I was curious, is that one soluble with a co-wash or only sulfate poo? I checked out sweatpeacurli's site and only got the answer that it isn't water soluble-so I wondered.

I was looking online and saw that ABBA had a curl line but I saw this in the Conditioner. The Poo looked good as well did the styler spritz.


Thanks!
/home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2FTLGuerrero%2F" class="Popup

password: curly

3B w/3A underneath

Medium texture
Average porosity

Crazy-picky hair; likes some oils and proteins, but not others, can tolerate some glycerin.

Current products-
Co-wash: Suave/Vo5/TJ Refresh
Rinse out & Leave in: Suave Tropical Coconut/Garnier Triple Nutrition
Gel: Herbal Essences Set Me Up/Aussie Tizz No Frizz
«13

Comments

  • annielutzannielutz Posts: 209Registered Users
    Ooo...I think this is the really bad one, but I could be wrong.

    Annie
    Modified-CG, 2c, slightly protein-sensitive, color-treated
    :sunny:
    LA County, SoCal - Cool and some humidity FINALLY
    Liking: Suave co-washes, LVPHG, homemade curl cream and DT
    Loving: KCKT/KCCC/HESMU, Biolage, K-Pak reconstructor, SheaM
  • AmdaAmda Posts: 251Registered Users
    Check out this link: it's at the top of my favourites list because it's so useful.
    http://www.naturallycurly.com/curly-q-a/whats-the-scoop-on-silicones
    It looks like it's not water soluble, but can be removed with conditioner washing.
    Fine and thin 2C in Australia
  • amaraliceamaralice Posts: 302Registered Users
    Thank you Amda! That was so helpful. My logical brain has told me not to just throw out products I have w/ out more clarity. All silicones aren't harmful but some should be avoided for co-washers. Now I know which ones.
    Lakshmi's Cupboard
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2FLakshmsCupboard.com" class="Popup

    If I use it, I sell it!

    4A. Hair goal chin level while curly - achieved Oct 2010!
    Next Goal: Shoulder length - Achieved Summer 2012!
    New Goal: Bra Strap Level
    Routine
    DT: Amla Silk Deep Therapy Restorative Masque , rhassoul clay
    Leave-in: Amla Lavender Chamomile Leave-In Hair Cream,, Amla and Honey Detangling Conditioner, Bhaasvataa Oil


    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • redcelticcurlsredcelticcurls Posts: 17,502Registered Users
    It can get gunky on me, but others do well with it as long as they co wash.
    Kiva! Microfinance works.

    Med/Coarse, porous curly.
  • marinacurlzmarinacurlz Posts: 1,720Registered Users
    Yes, thank you! It seems that the really bad ones require sulfates, which I am trying to avoid at all costs. But the ones that require cocamidopropyl betaine to remove them are water soluble and I think most conditioners(suave, etc.) that are used for co-washing contain that, right?
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2FTLGuerrero%2F" class="Popup

    password: curly

    3B w/3A underneath

    Medium texture
    Average porosity

    Crazy-picky hair; likes some oils and proteins, but not others, can tolerate some glycerin.

    Current products-
    Co-wash: Suave/Vo5/TJ Refresh
    Rinse out & Leave in: Suave Tropical Coconut/Garnier Triple Nutrition
    Gel: Herbal Essences Set Me Up/Aussie Tizz No Frizz
  • msgibletmsgiblet Posts: 5,825Registered Users
    annielutz wrote: »
    Ooo...I think this is the really bad one, but I could be wrong.

    The -xane cone is the evil one. Cyclomethicone supposedly can removed with co-washing and coco.....betaine.
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2Fmsgiblet%2F" class="Popup - pw: gibber -- Pics Added 7/10/11
    Fine, Thick, Normal Porosity, Normal Elasticity

    Countess Balashi of Divi Beach in the Order of the Curly Crusaders :occasion5:

    If I'm Going To Have A Bad Hair Day, It Might As Well Be In Aruba!

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • BoomygrrlBoomygrrl Posts: 4,940Registered Users
    It's the -xane cone, like msgiblet said, which is really bad...it's called cyclopentasiloxane. I'm not sure if all the -xane cones are bad or not, but I know for sure this particular one is.

    Cyclomethicone is actually a rather mild cone, from my experience. I think using coco betaine or CO washing can get it out. Everyone's hair is different. I would assume you will need more than just a water wash as it isn't technically water soluble...but mild washing from CO washing or from non-sulfate shampoo should be enough.
    That's right, I said it! I wear scrunchies!!

    I am a sulfate washing, cone slabbing, curly lovin' s.o.b. The CG police haven't caught me yet.
    :blob8:

    3a/3b
  • CurlyGrllCurlyGrll Posts: 8Registered Users
    What is coco betaine? Is it in a poo and if so which ones? Its all so confusing sometimes.
  • Swirlycurly ChemistSwirlycurly Chemist Posts: 335Registered Users
    Cyclomethicone IS cyclopentasiloxane, and also cyclotetrasiloxane (just a smaller molecule). It's just another name for the same thing! Neither will build up on your hair, although they are not water soluble. The reason for this is that they evaporate. They do not remain on your hair. You need nothing to remove them because they do not remain on your hair. I know I have addressed this in an article, but it is still a huge point of confusion for folks.

    The reason some find it makes their hair feel bad is that when it evaporates it can make your hair a tad dry and maybe mess with your cuticle layer a bit, just like alcohols that evaporate.

    Also, according to all the research I have seen, all of the silicones can be removed just as efficiently by products containing cocamidopropyl betaine or coco betaine as by SLS or SLES.
    3A canopy with 3B underneath
    Low poo, not afraid of amine-based silicones or polyquats, silk proteins are good as well.
  • lazy loopslazy loops Posts: 8,792Registered Users
    :toothy7:
    I lurv SCC.
    
  • hockeymomof3hockeymomof3 Posts: 2,159Registered Users
    Cyclomethicone IS cyclopentasiloxane, and also cyclotetrasiloxane (just a smaller molecule). It's just another name for the same thing! Neither will build up on your hair, although they are not water soluble. The reason for this is that they evaporate. They do not remain on your hair. You need nothing to remove them because they do not remain on your hair. I know I have addressed this in an article, but it is still a huge point of confusion for folks.

    The reason some find it makes their hair feel bad is that when it evaporates it can make your hair a tad dry and maybe mess with your cuticle layer a bit, just like alcohols that evaporate.

    Also, according to all the research I have seen, all of the silicones can be removed just as efficiently by products containing cocamidopropyl betaine or coco betaine as by SLS or SLES.

    THANK YOU -- YOU ARE THE BEST!!! :occasion9:
    3b/a
    Cowash - No Poo
    Conditioner - One Condition
    Gel - Light Defining Gel

    Looking to try Devacurl Decadence line next! Can't wait to try it.
  • hockeymomof3hockeymomof3 Posts: 2,159Registered Users
    One other question SCC -- have you heard how long it takes for the silicone to evaporate off your hair? I guess maybe that is dependent on the conditions/environment as well.
    3b/a
    Cowash - No Poo
    Conditioner - One Condition
    Gel - Light Defining Gel

    Looking to try Devacurl Decadence line next! Can't wait to try it.
  • marinacurlzmarinacurlz Posts: 1,720Registered Users
    Sooo, does that mean if you keep your hair moisturized you don't really have to worry what you put in it?:scratch: Then what is causing that buildup so many(not me) speak of?
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2FTLGuerrero%2F" class="Popup

    password: curly

    3B w/3A underneath

    Medium texture
    Average porosity

    Crazy-picky hair; likes some oils and proteins, but not others, can tolerate some glycerin.

    Current products-
    Co-wash: Suave/Vo5/TJ Refresh
    Rinse out & Leave in: Suave Tropical Coconut/Garnier Triple Nutrition
    Gel: Herbal Essences Set Me Up/Aussie Tizz No Frizz
  • MintMint Posts: 1,143Registered Users
    Cyclomethicone IS cyclopentasiloxane, and also cyclotetrasiloxane (just a smaller molecule). It's just another name for the same thing! Neither will build up on your hair, although they are not water soluble. The reason for this is that they evaporate. They do not remain on your hair. You need nothing to remove them because they do not remain on your hair. I know I have addressed this in an article, but it is still a huge point of confusion for folks.

    The reason some find it makes their hair feel bad is that when it evaporates it can make your hair a tad dry and maybe mess with your cuticle layer a bit, just like alcohols that evaporate.

    Also, according to all the research I have seen, all of the silicones can be removed just as efficiently by products containing cocamidopropyl betaine or coco betaine as by SLS or SLES.

    Woah, seriously?! :toothy7: I totally didn't know that. I'll still avoid cyclopentasiloxane because it left my hair unruly (my hair dislikes drying alcohols), but I'm thrilled to know that it doesn't build up. Thanks so much for elucidating!
    2a/M-C/ii hair. Super long.
  • dzlovedzlove Posts: 38Registered Users
    i had a similar question about this because i ordered a rosemary and horsetail oil online and later saw this ingredient in it. i did some research. this has a different structure than other silicones. the structure makes it bigger so that it cannot be absorbed into hair. it basically acts as a carrier and facilitates the good natural oils making their way into the hair. after it has done its job, it evaporates since it sits on the hair's surface rather than being absorbed.
  • jillipoojillipoo Posts: 3,795Registered Users
    Cyclomethicone IS cyclopentasiloxane, and also cyclotetrasiloxane (just a smaller molecule). It's just another name for the same thing! Neither will build up on your hair, although they are not water soluble. The reason for this is that they evaporate. They do not remain on your hair. You need nothing to remove them because they do not remain on your hair. I know I have addressed this in an article, but it is still a huge point of confusion for folks.

    The reason some find it makes their hair feel bad is that when it evaporates it can make your hair a tad dry and maybe mess with your cuticle layer a bit, just like alcohols that evaporate.

    Also, according to all the research I have seen, all of the silicones can be removed just as efficiently by products containing cocamidopropyl betaine or coco betaine as by SLS or SLES.

    Totally fascinating. It renders half of what we talk about on this board entirely moot!

    So, then, what do you think of the "ranking" of silicones in this article: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curly-q-a/whats-the-scoop-on-silicones
    3a and strictly CG since August 2007. Porous and on the fine side. No to magnesium sulfate and glycerin. Yes to protein! Favorites:
    CO-WASHES: Suave Coconut
    CONDITIONERS and LEAVE-INS: Mop Top Daily Conditioner, KBB Nectar, Aubrey GPB or Island Naturals, Robert Craig, Any Jessicurl
    CURL ENHANCERS/CREMES/MOUSSES: KCCC, JoiWhip
    GELS: Fuzzy Duck, B5 Design, MGA Scultping, BRHG


    Fotki password: chuckle
    Blog: /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fjillipoo.blogspot.com%2F" class="Popup
    Twitter: nopoojillipoo
  • AmdaAmda Posts: 251Registered Users
    Do you mean to tell me that I've wasted a ridiculously huge amount of money on buying products without an ingredient that evaporates off anyway?! :banghead:
    Fine and thin 2C in Australia
  • marinacurlzmarinacurlz Posts: 1,720Registered Users
    I just realized this thread I started is going to unleash many peoples PJ something fierce!:confused3: Ooops sorry!

    Yeah right!:wink:
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2FTLGuerrero%2F" class="Popup

    password: curly

    3B w/3A underneath

    Medium texture
    Average porosity

    Crazy-picky hair; likes some oils and proteins, but not others, can tolerate some glycerin.

    Current products-
    Co-wash: Suave/Vo5/TJ Refresh
    Rinse out & Leave in: Suave Tropical Coconut/Garnier Triple Nutrition
    Gel: Herbal Essences Set Me Up/Aussie Tizz No Frizz
  • msgibletmsgiblet Posts: 5,825Registered Users
    Sooo, does that mean if you keep your hair moisturized you don't really have to worry what you put in it?:scratch: Then what is causing that buildup so many(not me) speak of?

    Anything with conditioning or holding agents can eventually build up. That's why clarifying -- if you use a good clarifying shampoo, it should contain none of these agents -- needs to be done every so often.
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2Fmsgiblet%2F" class="Popup - pw: gibber -- Pics Added 7/10/11
    Fine, Thick, Normal Porosity, Normal Elasticity

    Countess Balashi of Divi Beach in the Order of the Curly Crusaders :occasion5:

    If I'm Going To Have A Bad Hair Day, It Might As Well Be In Aruba!

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • msgibletmsgiblet Posts: 5,825Registered Users
    jillipoo wrote: »
    Cyclomethicone IS cyclopentasiloxane, and also cyclotetrasiloxane (just a smaller molecule). It's just another name for the same thing! Neither will build up on your hair, although they are not water soluble. The reason for this is that they evaporate. They do not remain on your hair. You need nothing to remove them because they do not remain on your hair. I know I have addressed this in an article, but it is still a huge point of confusion for folks.

    The reason some find it makes their hair feel bad is that when it evaporates it can make your hair a tad dry and maybe mess with your cuticle layer a bit, just like alcohols that evaporate.

    Also, according to all the research I have seen, all of the silicones can be removed just as efficiently by products containing cocamidopropyl betaine or coco betaine as by SLS or SLES.

    Totally fascinating. It renders half of what we talk about on this board entirely moot!

    So, then, what do you think of the "ranking" of silicones in this article: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curly-q-a/whats-the-scoop-on-silicones

    I agree that it is totally fascinating. BUT if cyclomethicone, cyclopentasiloxane and cyclotetrasiloxane are the same thing, then why are they listed separately on ingredient lists? Every time I think I finally have a grip on something, I'm thrown right back into the ocean of confusion again! I don't see any reason anymore to avoid any cones if this is the case, especially since I still shampoo anyway.
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2Fmsgiblet%2F" class="Popup - pw: gibber -- Pics Added 7/10/11
    Fine, Thick, Normal Porosity, Normal Elasticity

    Countess Balashi of Divi Beach in the Order of the Curly Crusaders :occasion5:

    If I'm Going To Have A Bad Hair Day, It Might As Well Be In Aruba!

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • marinacurlzmarinacurlz Posts: 1,720Registered Users
    No kidding! Because some of the most beautiful curly/wavy heads I know use Pantene! I mean their hair is soft, shiny, gorgeous and every time I ask I kept dreading the word "Pantene" but they all happen to use it.
    I miss shampooing my hair. But I can't find anything that doesn't strip my hair! What do you use MG? I use that abbreviation otherwise you'd be MSG!:wink:(Sorry, it's 7:30 right now-long day at work yesterday!)
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2FTLGuerrero%2F" class="Popup

    password: curly

    3B w/3A underneath

    Medium texture
    Average porosity

    Crazy-picky hair; likes some oils and proteins, but not others, can tolerate some glycerin.

    Current products-
    Co-wash: Suave/Vo5/TJ Refresh
    Rinse out & Leave in: Suave Tropical Coconut/Garnier Triple Nutrition
    Gel: Herbal Essences Set Me Up/Aussie Tizz No Frizz
  • msgibletmsgiblet Posts: 5,825Registered Users
    No kidding! Because some of the most beautiful curly/wavy heads I know use Pantene! I mean their hair is soft, shiny, gorgeous and every time I ask I kept dreading the word "Pantene" but they all happen to use it.
    I miss shampooing my hair. But I can't find anything that doesn't strip my hair! What do you use MG? I use that abbreviation otherwise you'd be MSG!:wink:(Sorry, it's 7:30 right now-long day at work yesterday!)

    This is funny because even before I found this site and didn't worry too much about what I used on my hair as long as I liked it, Pantene was one, and is still one, product I would never use. No reason other than anything from that brand always makes my hair feel like crap!! I didn't know anything about ingredients then -- all I knew was my hair hated it.

    Right now I've been using Innersense Color Awakening Hair Bath & Innersense Color Radiance Conditioner, which has coco....betaine. I do try to use low- or sulfate-free poos most of the time. When I feel like I want a sulfate, I've been liking Tigi Dumb Blonde poo & for clarifying I like Nexxus Aloe Rid the best as well as Ouidad Clear & Gentle (or something like that).
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2Fmsgiblet%2F" class="Popup - pw: gibber -- Pics Added 7/10/11
    Fine, Thick, Normal Porosity, Normal Elasticity

    Countess Balashi of Divi Beach in the Order of the Curly Crusaders :occasion5:

    If I'm Going To Have A Bad Hair Day, It Might As Well Be In Aruba!

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • BoomygrrlBoomygrrl Posts: 4,940Registered Users
    They might be in the same family, but still I find cyclopentasiloxane to be horrible for my hair...it frizzes it like nobody's business.
    Cyclomethicone, maybe because the molecules are larger, doesn't have that effect on me.
    Perhaps the cyclopentasiloxane's molecules are smaller, ruffles up the cuticles more...but I also feel like it takes more of a clarifying shampoo to get out cyclopentasiloxane but not so much the cyclomethicone.
    Again, it could be that it just "feels" like it's in there because of the ruffed up cuticle...whereas the cyclomethicone evaporates without doing that to me.
    Maybe???

    Good to know that we don't really need a sulfate to wash all of this off. I still think it's a good idea to use a sulfate or some other form of clarifying (baking soda or ACV???) occasionally to get out the gunk, whether it be cones (maybe an overload of them??), waxes, hard water/mineral deposits, etc.
    That's right, I said it! I wear scrunchies!!

    I am a sulfate washing, cone slabbing, curly lovin' s.o.b. The CG police haven't caught me yet.
    :blob8:

    3a/3b
  • marinacurlzmarinacurlz Posts: 1,720Registered Users
    Yeah, I used to be a big Aussie fan when I had straight hair. Then as I became curly it didn't really work(old formula with xane) and last year when I used their products I believe they have dimethicone or amodimethicone my hair actually liked the Moist Shampoo and Conditioner with the leave-in in the pump and tizz no frizz.

    With styling aids it's obvious what my hair likes but as far as cleansing/conditioning...I have no idea.
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2FTLGuerrero%2F" class="Popup

    password: curly

    3B w/3A underneath

    Medium texture
    Average porosity

    Crazy-picky hair; likes some oils and proteins, but not others, can tolerate some glycerin.

    Current products-
    Co-wash: Suave/Vo5/TJ Refresh
    Rinse out & Leave in: Suave Tropical Coconut/Garnier Triple Nutrition
    Gel: Herbal Essences Set Me Up/Aussie Tizz No Frizz
  • aaa00aaaa00a Posts: 284Registered Users
    Does this mean that ingredients like...
    Octamethylcyclotetrasiloxane
    Decamethylcyclotetrasiloxane
    Hexamethylcyclotrisiloxane

    are cowashable??

    Because they give me such incredible, unimaginable shine.
    Wavy, dry, protein sensitive, coarse, highly overly porus, very low elasticity, medium-thick density, very prone to split ends
    Avoids: Sulphates, Silicones, Protein, Mineral oil, Petroleum, Polyquaternium, Sodium/Magnesium, Heat
    Mod-CG since June 2007
  • lazy loopslazy loops Posts: 8,792Registered Users
    aaa00a wrote: »
    Does this mean that ingredients like...
    Octamethylcyclotetrasiloxane
    Decamethylcyclotetrasiloxane
    Hexamethylcyclotrisiloxane

    are cowashable??

    Because they give me such incredible, unimaginable shine.

    What in the world? Where did you find these? :o
  • BoomygrrlBoomygrrl Posts: 4,940Registered Users
    wow! There's a whole family of -xanes, eh?
    Just when I thought I couldn't handle -xanes...maybe I just can't handle one kind of -xane...maybe I can handle the others? or maybe I cannot. Ah, the inner PJ sees endless possibilities...LOL
    That's right, I said it! I wear scrunchies!!

    I am a sulfate washing, cone slabbing, curly lovin' s.o.b. The CG police haven't caught me yet.
    :blob8:

    3a/3b
  • aaa00aaaa00a Posts: 284Registered Users
    It's some of the ingredients in a fav product of mine that I used to use all the time before finding this site a year ago. Although it's supposed to zap frizz, I find it doesn't really do that for me, but it really gives shine like I've never seen before in any other product.
    Wavy, dry, protein sensitive, coarse, highly overly porus, very low elasticity, medium-thick density, very prone to split ends
    Avoids: Sulphates, Silicones, Protein, Mineral oil, Petroleum, Polyquaternium, Sodium/Magnesium, Heat
    Mod-CG since June 2007
  • DEL2CDEL2C Posts: 6,418Registered Users
    jillipoo wrote: »
    Cyclomethicone IS cyclopentasiloxane, and also cyclotetrasiloxane (just a smaller molecule). It's just another name for the same thing! Neither will build up on your hair, although they are not water soluble. The reason for this is that they evaporate. They do not remain on your hair. You need nothing to remove them because they do not remain on your hair. I know I have addressed this in an article, but it is still a huge point of confusion for folks.

    The reason some find it makes their hair feel bad is that when it evaporates it can make your hair a tad dry and maybe mess with your cuticle layer a bit, just like alcohols that evaporate.

    Also, according to all the research I have seen, all of the silicones can be removed just as efficiently by products containing cocamidopropyl betaine or coco betaine as by SLS or SLES.

    Totally fascinating. It renders half of what we talk about on this board entirely moot!

    So, then, what do you think of the "ranking" of silicones in this article: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curly-q-a/whats-the-scoop-on-silicones
    UNBELIEVABLE CG HANDBOOK CLEARLY STATES THE OPPOSITE about the evil XANE!!!!!!!!!:banghead:
    Discovered CG 2007

    2C Fia BSL/Thick/Med-Coarse/Low(crown)-Normal Porosity Protein and Oil Sensitive

    Link-Spritz & Condish Washing:glasses7:

    I'm aCurlJunkieJunky :love4:

    My hair LOVES Coconut DESPISES Soap Bars :tongue6:


    CJRehab or H&B Fix, Deva NO POO, EO Rose & Cham POO & Condish, CJ CurlFix, CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB, SS FHG, KCCC, BRHG, AG Mousse Gel, ACV Rinses,Shikakai Conditioning Hair Rinse.
  • jillipoojillipoo Posts: 3,795Registered Users
    DEL2C, it's so funny that you posted about this, because just this morning, I saw a recent Beauty Brains post about how Cyclomethicone evaporates on the hair. Was going to post and then decided I was too tired! :)

    But isn't that interesting that the CG book lists it. What page did you find that on?
    3a and strictly CG since August 2007. Porous and on the fine side. No to magnesium sulfate and glycerin. Yes to protein! Favorites:
    CO-WASHES: Suave Coconut
    CONDITIONERS and LEAVE-INS: Mop Top Daily Conditioner, KBB Nectar, Aubrey GPB or Island Naturals, Robert Craig, Any Jessicurl
    CURL ENHANCERS/CREMES/MOUSSES: KCCC, JoiWhip
    GELS: Fuzzy Duck, B5 Design, MGA Scultping, BRHG


    Fotki password: chuckle
    Blog: /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fjillipoo.blogspot.com%2F" class="Popup
    Twitter: nopoojillipoo
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