Tangles!!

spacedcowgirlspacedcowgirl Registered Users Posts: 111
I've posted about this in the past, but I continue to be frustrated by it and I like to try and get new thoughts on the matter from time to time. So I apologize if you're going "Didn't she ask this like last year? What more does she want?!" :)

So the deal is, I'm one of those people who didn't really know she had curly hair until reading CG, so my hair is not really that curly. I am constantly wishing it was curlier, though I am getting a little better (gee, it only took me like 2 1/2 years) at accepting myself as a wavy. Along with this has come a wish to find my hair's "real" texture--I want it to look its best as it is naturally. I am CG and I find that my hair is actually curlier when I don't use shampoo (it's dry and I have had no trouble with scalp greasiness on CG, plus my itchy scalp has cleared up).

If I use no products, my hair is a huge, undefined frizzbomb with very little curl. So I think I can do better than that. But when I do use products I get other problems and that is what I'm hoping to get others' thoughts on.

For a long time, based on what I learned at nc.com, I was applying products to soaking wet hair in the shower, with my head upside-down, and either combing through, raking through with my fingers or just scrunching them in, then plopping. I was trying to avoid combing as much as possible because I wanted to encourage my weak clumps. Either way, any "combing" that I did was totally negated by the act of plopping, even though I tried to be gentle. When I removed the plopping towel my hair would be velcro-y and tangled, with some strands pulled straight and glued to other clumps, and each clump having little "loops" along its length where some of the hair was bunched up in the clump. It would take hours for my hair to dry and there would be many sections of it that looked straight because they had been "pulled" that way and then set by my gel (plus the part that was "pulled" over the back of my head during the plop was also pretty straight). Diffusing was sort of a waste of time because the air didn't want to penetrate into the thick clumps. I would do it for like 20 minutes and my hair would still be dripping wet. So I would just go through the first half of my day looking like a wet dog.

So the main problems I was having were 1) combing does not make my hair smooth or tangle-free unless it is the last thing I do in the process--when soaking wet, turning my head upside-down, scrunching, rinsing, or putting in products all make my hair tangly again; 2) I felt like my stylers were artificially straightening portions of my hair, making it look weird; and 3) it took my hair forever to dry.

For the last few days I have just been putting my hair up in a hair turban (not plopping), then once dressed I take it down, comb detangler, CK, and styling cream through it, then scrunch and diffuse for a few minutes. I think it looks basically as good (it's stringy, but my clumps weren't great anyway) and it dries much faster, and this is the only way I seem to be able to "release" all the strands of hair from being tangled or pulled or whatever into weird shapes.

I am getting my hair cut regularly now; back when I was asking about this before, a poster suggested a good haircut and it did help, but I am frustrated to still be having this problem despite freshly cut hair.

So what I am looking for is whether any other wavies have experienced this, and whether you have any advice on styling technique or product recommendations (I still can't give up on the dream of those elusive clumps!). I wonder why some people's hair will fall into clumps and not "stick" to itself, whereas others' (like mine) tangles so badly? It's a puzzle. I would be willing to go back to straight hair if I thought that were my hair's "true" texture, but it's so frizzy and does wave on its own, plus I don't want to damage it with brushing and high-heat blow-drying every day.

Thanks a lot to anyone who has made it all the way through this rant, and for any help you can provide. ;)
2b/2c/3a
Back on CG (OK, I'm a little indecisive).
pw: curls
Currently using: Whole Foods 365 Herbal Mint Conditioner (co-wash), MOP Mixed Greens Conditioner, Paul Mitchell Lite Detangler, CK, ISO Bouncy Creme. Gave up on plopping due to tangles/"stickiness" and now I just comb through products and diffuse. It looks basically as good and dries a lot faster (I wasn't getting good clumps from plopping anyway). Still wish I were a lot curlier!

Comments

  • whatsercurlwhatsercurl Registered Users Posts: 4,049
    I detangle in the shower with my fingers while conditioning. Once out I use one of those really wide toothed combs or fingers to detangle while putting in my CK. Then I run a glob of gel over the top and underneath while bent over and scrunch in. At no point do I use a towel, paper towel or t-shirt to get rid of any excess water.

    If I plop, my hair MUST literally be dripping wet. Otherwise it is a frizzy tangled mess. I can only plop for 5 minutes. Once again, any longer and I get a frizzy tangled mess.

    I scrunch in a bit more gel after plopping and then diffuse. If I air-dry, I clip the same as shown on the Curlisto site and leave it till dry to do the gel-scrunch.

    Otherwise, I diffuse to 70% dry with pixiecurl method and then leave it to do the gel-scrunch when it's 100% dry.

    I find I get quite a bit of clumping with this method.

    Good luck in your quest. :)
    Current Products: CJ Products: CF, DF, CT, SG, AFG, CIAB AND CK is back!
    Current Experiment: S&C by D

    Curl Fix and Daily Fix are my HGs :love4:


    Sulphate and cone free since July 2007

    wavy/curly fine texture/medium porosity/medium-low density

    http://public.fotki.com/whatsercurl/

    PW: wavycurly

    Seek not to change the world. Rather seek to change your mind about the world.
  • spacedcowgirlspacedcowgirl Registered Users Posts: 111
    Thanks a lot for the suggestions!! I didn't think about adding more gel after plopping, or that the time of plopping could be messing up my results. I've never looked at the Curlisto site either so I'll take a look. I have concluded that the clipping method shown in Curly Girl is not physically possible (I have never gotten the clips to do anything other than fall over flat on my head, and I even bought those stupid expensive plastic Deva clips which were if anything WORSE than plain metal ones) so other methods would be great to learn.

    Thanks again! I am excited to try your suggestions. :thumright:
    2b/2c/3a
    Back on CG (OK, I'm a little indecisive).
    pw: curls
    Currently using: Whole Foods 365 Herbal Mint Conditioner (co-wash), MOP Mixed Greens Conditioner, Paul Mitchell Lite Detangler, CK, ISO Bouncy Creme. Gave up on plopping due to tangles/"stickiness" and now I just comb through products and diffuse. It looks basically as good and dries a lot faster (I wasn't getting good clumps from plopping anyway). Still wish I were a lot curlier!
  • whatsercurlwhatsercurl Registered Users Posts: 4,049
    I agree about the clipping CG. I couldn't figure it out for the life of me. I think it's msgiblet that has some pictures of it in her fotki but I still couldn't figure it out. *heh*

    Post updates if you have any success. :)
    Current Products: CJ Products: CF, DF, CT, SG, AFG, CIAB AND CK is back!
    Current Experiment: S&C by D

    Curl Fix and Daily Fix are my HGs :love4:


    Sulphate and cone free since July 2007

    wavy/curly fine texture/medium porosity/medium-low density

    http://public.fotki.com/whatsercurl/

    PW: wavycurly

    Seek not to change the world. Rather seek to change your mind about the world.
  • spacedcowgirlspacedcowgirl Registered Users Posts: 111
    Will do! Thanks again!
    2b/2c/3a
    Back on CG (OK, I'm a little indecisive).
    pw: curls
    Currently using: Whole Foods 365 Herbal Mint Conditioner (co-wash), MOP Mixed Greens Conditioner, Paul Mitchell Lite Detangler, CK, ISO Bouncy Creme. Gave up on plopping due to tangles/"stickiness" and now I just comb through products and diffuse. It looks basically as good and dries a lot faster (I wasn't getting good clumps from plopping anyway). Still wish I were a lot curlier!
  • spacedcowgirlspacedcowgirl Registered Users Posts: 111
    Whoops, whatsercurl, sorry, I did have a couple more questions. You said you don't use a towel at any point but that you comb through CK after getting out of the shower (if I am understanding correctly). Do you squeeze the water out of your hair before getting out, or just live with a little water on the bathroom floor?

    And do you apply CK/detangle with your head upside down, or apply right side up and then flip it over to add gel? Do you find that your hair strands are pretty stringy during this process and then re-clump while drying, or do they stay pretty well clumped throughout the detangling/product addition process?

    I just took a look at the Curlisto video and I'm very intrigued both with the applying product in sections (I have trouble getting it distributed evenly) and the clipping method for adding volume during drying. I'll try these today and post how it goes...

    Thanks very much in advance and sorry for all the wordiness.
    2b/2c/3a
    Back on CG (OK, I'm a little indecisive).
    pw: curls
    Currently using: Whole Foods 365 Herbal Mint Conditioner (co-wash), MOP Mixed Greens Conditioner, Paul Mitchell Lite Detangler, CK, ISO Bouncy Creme. Gave up on plopping due to tangles/"stickiness" and now I just comb through products and diffuse. It looks basically as good and dries a lot faster (I wasn't getting good clumps from plopping anyway). Still wish I were a lot curlier!
  • eweniqueewenique Registered Users Posts: 1,502 Curl Neophyte
    Here's something else to try: After running conditioner through your wet hair to detangle, rinse upside down. You can rinse all of it out and then use a leave-in conditioner (can even be the same one used to detangle), or just rinse most of it out. Still upside down, run a wide-tooth comb gently through your wet hair, then smooth/scrunch in styling products. Your hair won't be dripping wet anymore and you can put it in your hair turban while you get dressed. With your head still hanging down, put your hair into the "bowl" of the turban so that it is all on the top of your head. Take the turban off with your head still hanging down and start to diffuse upside down and side to side for 5- 10 minutes. This may give you a bit more lift at the crown and encourage clumping. BTW, your wavy curls are lovely!
    2C wavy with some spirals. CG since April 07. Medium texture and porosity.
    COs: Yes to Cucumbers
    Stylers: Miss Jessies Coily Custard, KCCC

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Live Simply. Use Soap
    www.TheLatheredLamb.com
    www.EweniqueEssentials.artfire.com
  • whatsercurlwhatsercurl Registered Users Posts: 4,049
    Whoops, whatsercurl, sorry, I did have a couple more questions. You said you don't use a towel at any point but that you comb through CK after getting out of the shower (if I am understanding correctly). Do you squeeze the water out of your hair before getting out, or just live with a little water on the bathroom floor?

    And do you apply CK/detangle with your head upside down, or apply right side up and then flip it over to add gel? Do you find that your hair strands are pretty stringy during this process and then re-clump while drying, or do they stay pretty well clumped throughout the detangling/product addition process?

    I just took a look at the Curlisto video and I'm very intrigued both with the applying product in sections (I have trouble getting it distributed evenly) and the clipping method for adding volume during drying. I'll try these today and post how it goes...

    Thanks very much in advance and sorry for all the wordiness.

    I don't squeeze any water out at all which sounds quite weird. This will sound even weirder but I pull my bathmat close to the tub then slide it across the floor (while standing on it) to keep the floor dry.

    Yes I do turn my head upside to put in CK. Sorry forgot to say that in previous post.

    It is usually very stringy after finger combing but clumps back together either when plopping (if I decide to plop that day) or when diffusing if I don't. I think I get better clumps in general when I finger comb or use wide toothed comb. I think it distributes the product better or maybe it "re-socializes" curls. Not sure why but I think it looks better since I started doing that.

    I actually tried the whole Curlisto method but don't have the stamina to do it very often. It did look nice the day but I seemed to use way more product and took about twice as long. I also tried the Skip Curl method from Curly Hair Solutions but couldn't get the hang of it and my was a big stringy mess.

    And no worries about the wordiness, hard to describe technique in words. :)
    Current Products: CJ Products: CF, DF, CT, SG, AFG, CIAB AND CK is back!
    Current Experiment: S&C by D

    Curl Fix and Daily Fix are my HGs :love4:


    Sulphate and cone free since July 2007

    wavy/curly fine texture/medium porosity/medium-low density

    http://public.fotki.com/whatsercurl/

    PW: wavycurly

    Seek not to change the world. Rather seek to change your mind about the world.
  • whatsercurlwhatsercurl Registered Users Posts: 4,049
    ewenique wrote: »
    Here's something else to try: After running conditioner through your wet hair to detangle, rinse upside down. You can rinse all of it out and then use a leave-in conditioner (can even be the same one used to detangle), or just rinse most of it out. Still upside down, run a wide-tooth comb gently through your wet hair, then smooth/scrunch in styling products. Your hair won't be dripping wet anymore and you can put it in your hair turban while you get dressed. With your head still hanging down, put your hair into the "bowl" of the turban so that it is all on the top of your head. Take the turban off with your head still hanging down and start to diffuse upside down and side to side for 5- 10 minutes. This may give you a bit more lift at the crown and encourage clumping. BTW, your wavy curls are lovely!

    I've heard that rinsing upside down works well but have never been able to figure out how to do it without water either up my nose or in my eyes when in the shower. How do you do that?
    Current Products: CJ Products: CF, DF, CT, SG, AFG, CIAB AND CK is back!
    Current Experiment: S&C by D

    Curl Fix and Daily Fix are my HGs :love4:


    Sulphate and cone free since July 2007

    wavy/curly fine texture/medium porosity/medium-low density

    http://public.fotki.com/whatsercurl/

    PW: wavycurly

    Seek not to change the world. Rather seek to change your mind about the world.
  • agoldenloveragoldenlover Registered Users Posts: 64
    I feel your pain! I also struggled with messy tangled hair! I learned my hair does not like to have anything done upside down when wet! I know the upside down idea is to get more volume but it just makes my hair a mis-shapen, tangley, snaggly mess! I don't even plop any more because my hair was coming out all weird!!

    Here's what I do (it's not perfect but it's working pretty well for me.) Cowash with Vo5 or Suave cond. and then cond with AOHR which is great for clumping (everything is done right side up.) Rinse, squeeze out some of the drips in the shower.

    Get out, stand on a towel and comb and part with a super wide tooth comb, still drippy, I apply [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Jessicurl-Weekly-Deep-Conditioning-Treatment-p-106.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=jessicurl-weekly-deep-conditioner-treatment]JC WDT[/buylink] as a leave in, if necessary (helps with clumping, but I can only do this once a week or so because I have fine hair which can get droopy.) Rub a glob of gel (HEBE) between my hands and apply to my wet hair as if I were smoothing my hair back into a pony tail first, (great for clumping) then I add smaller globs to sides and back sections, scrunching upward until I hear that squishy sound and my hair looks like wavy/curly ribbons.

    Then I look to see if I have any weird bends or shapes in my hair. Sometimes I twist some sections of hair to make ringlets like they show on the [buylink=http://www.curlmart.com/Curly-Hair-Solutions-Curl-Keeper-p-28.html?utm_source=naturallycurly.com&utm_medium=text-link&utm_content=curltalk-post-text&utm_campaign=curly-hair-solutions-curl-keeper]Curl Keeper[/buylink] site video.

    I scrunch with a large micro fiber towel or two, moving to dry sections of the towel as I go around my head, being careful not to make a mess of my tangle free wiggly hair! Sometimes I use clips on top to add a little volume, I'm not very good at this!

    I have been having to diffuse lately because it is so cold out. I only let myself do it for five minutes, not letting my hair move around. Then I don't touch it at all until it is totally dry, which is when I scrunch out any crunch. Then I can try to fluff it up and out!

    I hope this helps! It took me a while to figure all of this out and I spent a lot of days with tangled hair.

    Good Luck!
    Linda From Illinois
    _______________________________________
    2B-3A fine hair with waves and ringlets
    co-wash with Suave Coconut or Vo5 Vanilla Mint Tea, condition with AOHR, HE BE or TT gel, and once a week Jessicurl WDT

    A happy life is just a string of happy moments. But most people don't allow the happy moment, because they're so busy
    trying so hard to get a happy life.
    Abraham-Hicks
  • spacedcowgirlspacedcowgirl Registered Users Posts: 111
    Guys, thanks so much for your responses and tips. I really appreciate it.
    This will sound even weirder but I pull my bathmat close to the tub then slide it across the floor (while standing on it) to keep the floor dry.
    whatsercurl, hee! I do the same thing when I go to plop--step out of the shower and "walk" the bathmat across the floor so I don't drip everywhere. I'm sure it looks funny but nobody's watching. :) I see what you are saying about how you apply product now. A long time ago I used to comb product through dripping wet hair also, and I stopped for some reason. Maybe I should try it again, maybe without the plopping. I can see this helping with the tangles ("dewatering" my hair without using a towel, that is).

    ewenique, I think rinsing upside-down would be a good solution for me except I have the problem with getting water up my nose like whatsercurl described, and my face is very breakout-prone so I found that the conditioner/product that would inevitably drip onto my face when I did this was causing me some problems. Thanks so much for the compliment on my hair. It is hard not to be jealous of all the beautiful Type 3 hair around these parts so that makes me feel better! ;)

    agoldenlover--it sounds like we have very similar hair in terms of tangliness. I think I was trying the upside down stuff in an effort to get more clumps and volume but that doesn't help if it's laying all weird when I get done. So maybe I should go back to the more CG way you describe of just staying right side up and gently squeezing the water out. I also like your tips for clumps (the "ponytail" method of applying gel--for some reason I never thought to do it that way) and from what I can see of your avatar, you do have really nice clumpy curls! Your description of the "ribbon" texture before blotting dry gives me some hope because that is what Jessicurl's hair looks like in her demo videos and mine never looks that way--I'm so jealous when I look at her hair falling into nice neat ribbony strands. If I flip my head over, even soaking wet, it looks like a tangly snarly mass.

    BTW, this may be obvious but can you tell me what AOHR stands for? I'm always up for a new product to try. :)

    Thanks again, guys!! I think if I combine some of these suggestions I might really be able to make some progress. I ended up not really going anywhere today so I got lazy and I'm just letting my hair air-dry without product. But tomorrow I actually need to go out in public so hopefully that will give me the impetus to try some of these techniques!
    2b/2c/3a
    Back on CG (OK, I'm a little indecisive).
    pw: curls
    Currently using: Whole Foods 365 Herbal Mint Conditioner (co-wash), MOP Mixed Greens Conditioner, Paul Mitchell Lite Detangler, CK, ISO Bouncy Creme. Gave up on plopping due to tangles/"stickiness" and now I just comb through products and diffuse. It looks basically as good and dries a lot faster (I wasn't getting good clumps from plopping anyway). Still wish I were a lot curlier!
  • KatiecurlKatiecurl Registered Users Posts: 236
    This will sound even weirder but I pull my bathmat close to the tub then slide it across the floor (while standing on it) to keep the floor dry.

    whatsercurl, hee! I do the same thing when I go to plop--step out of the shower and "walk" the bathmat across the floor so I don't drip everywhere. I'm sure it looks funny but nobody's watching. :) quote]

    Holy cow, I do this too! Lol. What funny things we will do for our hair...

    AOHR is Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose conditioner. You can find it at health food stores and the Vitamin Shoppe. It is AWESOME. It doesn't smell the greatest... it's also a bit pricey... but it's worth every penny. I don't think I'll ever buy another conditioner again!
    2a/b. I love AOHR!
  • merebearmerebear Registered Users Posts: 190
    Hey! I too am a 2B-2C with my own set of problems however I recognized yours.
    I didn't realize my hair was curly/wavy until I was 19. I know once you get a taste of curls, you want a bit more. I found that diet as much as product has a lot to do with the condition of hair. (Some may disagree). Right now I am struggling with no wave, no curl and dry damaged hair but I can tell you that when I removed sugar, white flour and caffeine from my diet and added flax and primrose oil to my orange juice in the morning (along with eating right and taking a multi-vitamin) my hair was down right curly! I only washed my hair like every 4 days, just basically rinsed it in the shower after a workout. I used all "Giovanni" products (found at Whole Foods). Their 50/50 conditioner along with the VitaPro spray and Turbo mousse worked great. But then I fell off the "healthy" bandwagon and although I've had good and bad days with hair - it never seemed to look as good as it did back then.
    So, I think our hair (like our skin) can reflect our health. As for tangles and encouraging curls...the advice I can give is to read other posts here at nc.com, read the book "curly girl" by Lorraine Massey and for instant gratification...what has worked for me (until now) has been mild shampoo, heavy moisturizing conditioner. Then spray in VitaPro by Giovanni comb in through and wait about 10 minutes before scrunching in the mousse. After the mousse is in I scrunch again and let it get about 70% dry and diffuse the ends with warm (not hot) air for a few minutes only and then let it air dry the rest of the way. It has consistantly given me great results. But now my hair is way over processed and it won't even wave. I am so annoyed but I love my color being lighter. I am naturally a dark brunetter but I now have a lot of gray so it is easier to go lighter.
    Let me know if this info has helped. Good luck!
    MereBear
    2B-2C - very wavy with loose ringlets
    ____________________________________

    :wav:
  • msgibletmsgiblet Registered Users Posts: 5,825
    ewenique wrote: »
    Here's something else to try: After running conditioner through your wet hair to detangle, rinse upside down. You can rinse all of it out and then use a leave-in conditioner (can even be the same one used to detangle), or just rinse most of it out. Still upside down, run a wide-tooth comb gently through your wet hair, then smooth/scrunch in styling products. Your hair won't be dripping wet anymore and you can put it in your hair turban while you get dressed. With your head still hanging down, put your hair into the "bowl" of the turban so that it is all on the top of your head. Take the turban off with your head still hanging down and start to diffuse upside down and side to side for 5- 10 minutes. This may give you a bit more lift at the crown and encourage clumping. BTW, your wavy curls are lovely!

    I've heard that rinsing upside down works well but have never been able to figure out how to do it without water either up my nose or in my eyes when in the shower. How do you do that?

    Are you bending over at the waist when you try it? If not, you should be bending over completely at the waist and the water should just be hitting the back of your head and running off the hair hanging down in front. I do this all the time and I never get water in my nose or my eyes.
    http://public.fotki.com/msgiblet/ - pw: gibber -- Pics Added 7/10/11
    Fine, Thick, Normal Porosity, Normal Elasticity

    Countess Balashi of Divi Beach in the Order of the Curly Crusaders :occasion5:

    If I'm Going To Have A Bad Hair Day, It Might As Well Be In Aruba!

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • whatsercurlwhatsercurl Registered Users Posts: 4,049
    Are you bending over at the waist when you try it? If not, you should be bending over completely at the waist and the water should just be hitting the back of your head and running off the hair hanging down in front. I do this all the time and I never get water in my nose or my eyes


    So the top of your head is facing the end of the tub without the shower head?
    Current Products: CJ Products: CF, DF, CT, SG, AFG, CIAB AND CK is back!
    Current Experiment: S&C by D

    Curl Fix and Daily Fix are my HGs :love4:


    Sulphate and cone free since July 2007

    wavy/curly fine texture/medium porosity/medium-low density

    http://public.fotki.com/whatsercurl/

    PW: wavycurly

    Seek not to change the world. Rather seek to change your mind about the world.
  • whatsercurlwhatsercurl Registered Users Posts: 4,049
    Katiecurl wrote: »
    This will sound even weirder but I pull my bathmat close to the tub then slide it across the floor (while standing on it) to keep the floor dry.

    whatsercurl, hee! I do the same thing when I go to plop--step out of the shower and "walk" the bathmat across the floor so I don't drip everywhere. I'm sure it looks funny but nobody's watching. :) quote]

    Holy cow, I do this too! Lol. What funny things we will do for our hair...


    *giggle*
    Current Products: CJ Products: CF, DF, CT, SG, AFG, CIAB AND CK is back!
    Current Experiment: S&C by D

    Curl Fix and Daily Fix are my HGs :love4:


    Sulphate and cone free since July 2007

    wavy/curly fine texture/medium porosity/medium-low density

    http://public.fotki.com/whatsercurl/

    PW: wavycurly

    Seek not to change the world. Rather seek to change your mind about the world.
  • msgibletmsgiblet Registered Users Posts: 5,825
    Are you bending over at the waist when you try it? If not, you should be bending over completely at the waist and the water should just be hitting the back of your head and running off the hair hanging down in front. I do this all the time and I never get water in my nose or my eyes


    So the top of your head is facing the end of the tub without the shower head?

    No, I'm facing the shower head, but I'm bending all the way over from the waist with my head under the shower stream. If you're only bending your head over at the neck, it's going to tend to run more into your face & eyes.
    http://public.fotki.com/msgiblet/ - pw: gibber -- Pics Added 7/10/11
    Fine, Thick, Normal Porosity, Normal Elasticity

    Countess Balashi of Divi Beach in the Order of the Curly Crusaders :occasion5:

    If I'm Going To Have A Bad Hair Day, It Might As Well Be In Aruba!

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • whatsercurlwhatsercurl Registered Users Posts: 4,049
    I thought I was bending at the waist but your suggestions have always been spot on so I'm going to try again. :thumbup:
    Current Products: CJ Products: CF, DF, CT, SG, AFG, CIAB AND CK is back!
    Current Experiment: S&C by D

    Curl Fix and Daily Fix are my HGs :love4:


    Sulphate and cone free since July 2007

    wavy/curly fine texture/medium porosity/medium-low density

    http://public.fotki.com/whatsercurl/

    PW: wavycurly

    Seek not to change the world. Rather seek to change your mind about the world.

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