Cheating--A hypothetical scenario...

medussamedussa Posts: 12,993Registered Users
Well, not so hypothetical. I know someone whose hubby had a baby with a minor (16 at the time, I believe). They had problems to begin with, but the affair was the nail in the coffin. The couple separates. Some time passes. Hubby decides he wants to be part of his daughters lives (this person and her husband have a 1 1/2 year-old and 4 year-old together). I'm not sure how involved the couple is with regard to their relationship. I suspect they have been intimate again. Anyway, this person I know gets a call from her hubby and he tells her that something terrible has happened--his baby's momma has been raped and beaten. This person says, "what the hell you telling me for? I couldn't care less." :shock: In fact, this woman goes as far as saying that it serves the girl right. He gets upset with her and questions her morals and integrity, as a the mother of two girls. She's furious he even had the nerve to tell her about it.

What surprised me was her reaction to the news. Good for the girl? Sheesh, she was raped and beaten. :cry: I don't know. This person says, "if your dh cheated and had a baby with another woman, you'd feel the same way." I don't think so. I really don't. I'd hate my dh's guts for cheating on me. I'd be pissed at her for knowingly cheating with a married man. But I wouldn't be indifferent about her being raped. I think I'd feel bad for her.

How would you feel?
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Comments

  • goldencurlygoldencurly Posts: 2,385Registered Users
    No one deserves to be raped, no one. Rape is a horrible crime.

    Your friend needs to deal with her anger and hatred; it is out of line. I would drop the husband and not become involved with him again. Your friend needs closure and release. If she wants a relationship with this man, they need counseling to learn to deal with the infidelity and the fact that this woman is the mother of his child and therefore he needs to be a responsible parent for that child as well. None of that is going to go away. Wishing something gruesome on the woman will in no way lesson your friend's pain or speed her recovery.
    ________
    Sexychiku
  • NetGNetG Posts: 8,116Registered Users
    I might hate the girl, but I'd STILL feel awful for her. Anyone who's been raped knows how horrible it is. I would guess someone who made light of it was too uncomfortable with it to admit to herself what she was hearing had happened. I can't imagine a decent human being EVER believing someone deserved to be raped, or being happy about it.


    Awful.
    The pews never miss a sermon but that doesn't get them one step closer to Heaven.
    -Speckla

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  • AmnerisAmneris Posts: 15,117Registered Users
    Well, I personally would feel terrible, but you have to look at it from the ex-wife's POV. Why IS he telling her? That could be seen as somewhat insensitive. I am sure when she calmed down, she did feel bad for the girl. I don't think the girl was the real issue - at least, it wouldn't be for me. For me it would be the lying, deceiving character I once had the misfortune to believe and be married to. The girl was just a kid - he was a grown man who knew what he was doing. I think he did have some nerve telling her - the less she hears about the girl, the better in her eyes. I don't know if you ever completely get over that level of hurt and betrayal, though obviously it is better for you if you are able to forgive and move on, but it may take more time.
    Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali


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  • mazeymazey Posts: 709Registered Users
    NetG wrote:
    I might hate the girl, but I'd STILL feel awful for her. Anyone who's been raped knows how horrible it is. I would guess someone who made light of it was too uncomfortable with it to admit to herself what she was hearing had happened. I can't imagine a decent human being EVER believing someone deserved to be raped, or being happy about it.


    Awful.

    I voted "other," since "sad" wouldn't adequately describe my reaction, and I agree with NetG. I may not like the girl or her actions, but never in a million years can I imagine me thinking someone deserved it. I can’t even fathom what kind of person would think that, no matter how wronged you were by her.
    Madonna getting upset with her daughter for dressing too slutty is like Mr. T getting upset with his son for pitying too many fools.
  • GuardianBGuardianB Posts: 1,905Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I would be extremely upset that anyone, good or bad, that had a place in my life had something that horrible happen to them. There are certain things that it seems no one deserves. There may be that unknown spiritual reason for something happening but it by no way effect how my morals and feelings go.

    I have never "hated" anyone that much but I can't ever see myself without regret and sadness for a tragedy.
    ~Two friends, one soul inspired~ anonymous
  • kimmyckimmyc Posts: 551Registered Users
    I would be sad and feel bad for the tragedy. Even if I didn't like the person I can't imagine anyone would deserve such a thing. As GB said, I've never hated anyone that much. I would feel bad if something really bad and painful happened to someone whether I like them or not.
    2b/3a, primarily use Jessicurl and DevaCurl products, Curls Hair Tea conditioner and various gels. I'm modified CG-ish since 5/04.
  • Jenny CJenny C Posts: 1,195Registered Users
    I could see my initial reaction being like that. My first thought would be 'good, that B!#*H deserves it!', then later I would think about it and realize that nobody deserves to be raped, beaten maybe :wink: but not raped. I'd feel pretty bad for her, but I wouldn't really be upset like I would if it were a family member or friend.

    Maybe I'm cold, but I'm being totally honest. This is not someone I 'don't like' this is someone who had a part in destroying my family.
    If you got nothing to bring to the table - don't even bother sitting down.
  • medussamedussa Posts: 12,993Registered Users
    Hate is something I cannot imagine ever feeling. I was very surprised when she said "you'd feel the same way too." I cannot imagine hating that much. I just can't. I feel bad for the girl.

    Therapy is very much in order when you feel someone deserved a tragedy because they had an affair with your spouse.
  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,898Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    I wonder what the husband's tone and purpose was? That would make a difference to me. Did he tell me so that I would express sympathy? Or did he tell me for a practical reason, like maybe something to do with picking up the baby while the mother was in the hospital, etc? If he was waiting for me to bake her cookies and cry with her, he'd have a looong wait... I'm just human, what can I say...

  • medussamedussa Posts: 12,993Registered Users
    Jenny C wrote:
    Maybe I'm cold, but I'm being totally honest. This is not someone I 'don't like' this is someone who had a part in destroying my family.

    Her reaction was exactly what you described, but I'm hoping that she's more infuriated with her dh being insensitive and that she's misdirecting her anger. That's my hope.
  • starinastarina Posts: 665Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    My marriage broke up because of cheating by my ex which resulted in a baby. It's a terrible experience, and it generates a lot of emotions, some of which are ugly. Further fueling the situation is the child which is a constant and ever present reminder of what happened, and the fact that the original children are going to suffer in many ways from the fallout of this event too. There are other variables that are unknown. For example, did this girl harrass the wife? Did she flaunt the affair in the wife's face? Is she still around making the wife's life miserable? What I'm saying is, I can understand where the wife is coming from, even though I could never feel that way myself, even though I hated my ex's girlfriend, and she made my life a living hell. I remember thinking bad thoughts, like maybe she'll get cancer, or her other daughter taken away, but then I would shake my head and know that I was just wrong to think that way. I knew it was the anger and hurt that put those thoughts in my head, not because I really wanted those things to happen.
    I have 3A hair. I've discovered Jessicurl shampoo and Too Shea conditioner and I'm thrilled! Long-time LA Looks sport gel user.
  • DiscgirlDiscgirl Posts: 746Registered Users
    That's vile. I don't care what the other woman did. If she has feelings that strong, why is she even talking with the man who had the affair and fathered the child? The anger sounds misplaced to me, given her husband was the adult in the extramarital relationship.
  • hayseedladyhayseedlady Posts: 646Registered Users
    The other girl had a child(ren) by the wife's husband, boyfriend, booty call right? So both woman are part of one man's life, he is trying to be decent by helping both woman out with their children, right? What is there to be jealous of? Might as well except the good with the bad and not shout out for Karma to lay you out.

    I feel more sorry for the wife, that she is insecure that she feels pleasure on the back of someone else's misery. That is a very sorry person.

    You can't change what happened in the past, if your man comes with children count yourself blessed that you will be a part of someone else's life. Hopefully this lady doesn't pass her problems on to her own kids, we need more secure happy woman in this world. Who don't get happy when one of their own is disrespected and humiliated.
  • AmnerisAmneris Posts: 15,117Registered Users
    The other girl had a child(ren) by the wife's husband, boyfriend, booty call right? So both woman are part of one man's life, he is trying to be decent by helping both woman out with their children, right? What is there to be jealous of? Might as well except the good with the bad and not shout out for Karma to lay you out.

    I feel more sorry for the wife, that she is insecure that she feels pleasure on the back of someone else's misery. That is a very sorry person.

    You can't change what happened in the past, if your man comes with children count yourself blessed that you will be a part of someone else's life. Hopefully this lady doesn't pass her problems on to her own kids, we need more secure happy woman in this world. Who don't get happy when one of their own is disrespected and humiliated.

    hayseedlady, I don't think you are being fair to this woman. The man is trying to be decent by helping both women with their children? Why was he not trying to be decent by not cheating on his wife with a child and probably taking advantage of the poor girl as well as hurting his wife and her existing children? What is there to be jealous of? I don't know that jealousy is the word. I would be devastated - absolutely shattered. His selfishness has destroyed her family and her life as she knows it. I don't think insecurity has anything to do with it - it's way beyond that. Insecurity to me is being threatened or overreacting to harmless flirtations and such. The time for jealousy is past - he DID forsake her for another.

    Who is to say that if anyone here had their life destroyed in this manner (and who knows what else was going on here besides what we've been told) you wouldn't have a flash of "what goes around comes around" the first you hear of this? I don't know that I would or wouldn't. After that initial emotion, I would probably feel compassion and try to do something for the girl and her child and pray for them, in that way healing myself.
    We don't know what she felt, only what she said as her initial reaction, which is probably more about him than her.

    Generally, the majority of my anger would be to my husband, though, and I would wonder what he hoped to accomplish by telling me this.
    Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali


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  • hayseedladyhayseedlady Posts: 646Registered Users
    I didn't know I had to be fair to someone I don't know. Ask a question get an answer, all the info isn't there but it isn't right for the wife to go around calling her girlfriend and family bragging that the other woman got raped and beat up. I've seen enough in life to know that it is full of circles. Never tempt fate, never vocalize something that you couldn't handle yourself.

    I don't live a normal life and my first honest thought while scanning the story along with the poll is why can't people help each other and pull each other through things. Why blame anyone. If there wasn't so much hate and insecurity I'd suggest a nice poly relationship. Why teach children how to hate and be hatefull, this will get them far in life. Good life lessons.

    I have had my relationship shattered by affairs. I know the pain but can't understand the hate, I deal with married men daily wanting to screw around on their wife. The story is almost always the same, she doesn't care, she is to busy, she doesn't like sex and I really need it. I don't even answer them because I might like sex but unless all parties are involved and happy I don't do it. Any relationship can end up like this.
  • hayseedladyhayseedlady Posts: 646Registered Users
    Why is it that people think men lure woman into having sex? If they had a child 4 years ago she wouldn't be a minor now unless he had been nailing a 12 year old which is icky in a very special spend the rest of your life in a locked cell sort of way.

    The older I've gotten I've understood that woman have much more control than what has ever been talked about. Men don't think the best when it comes to sex, they are almost simple that way.
  • AmnerisAmneris Posts: 15,117Registered Users
    Iisn't right for the wife to go around calling her girlfriend and family bragging that the other woman got raped and beat up.

    I have had my relationship shattered by affairs. I know the pain but can't understand the hate, I deal with married men daily wanting to screw around on their wife. The story is almost always the same, she doesn't care, she is to busy, she doesn't like sex and I really need it. I don't even answer them because I might like sex but unless all parties are involved and happy I don't do it. Any relationship can end up like this.

    We don't know that she was calling people bragging about it. It sounds like she was very upset and spilled what happened in a moment of weakness. Probably just hearing this girl's name from his lips brings back painful memories and she had to tell someone.

    As to point #2: Just because the men give you those excuses about their wives doesn't justify sleeping with the men. And the above scenario doesn't apply, because clearly all parties weren't involved and happy, and one party was 16, and she had a child, which doesn't seem harmless to me.
    Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali


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  • hayseedladyhayseedlady Posts: 646Registered Users
    What is wrong with trying to be the best person you can? Is it that hard to put behind you any hard feelings and help someone in the moment of need? Why do most people have to carry a grudge or hate of people that seems to be all consuming. I see why he brought it up, even though the child was born of SIN it doesn't mean it can't have some love and happiness. That is a true sign of a devote Christian is someone who can forgive and turn the other cheek. Not someone who harbors a hate and wishes malcontent on other people.

    I didn't say I slept with married men, I said they offered. What I was trying to point out is even though you think you may have a commited relationship men stray. In their eyes it is just sex. Something was lacking during the stage in the relationship that the male went elsewhere to find what he lacked.

    So why hate something you have no control over? The damage is done, the child, why not forgive and forget then try to live a peaceful life. The child is the innocent here, not the adults.

    Even after thinking this over in the shower, I still feel sorry for the woman who was raped and beaten. I would have atleast offered some babysitting while she went through what happened and had some time to think alone.
  • AmnerisAmneris Posts: 15,117Registered Users
    What is wrong with trying to be the best person you can? Is it that hard to put behind you any hard feelings and help someone in the moment of need? Why do most people have to carry a grudge or hate of people that seems to be all consuming. I see why he brought it up, even though the child was born of SIN it doesn't mean it can't have some love and happiness. That is a true sign of a devote Christian is someone who can forgive and turn the other cheek. Not someone who harbors a hate and wishes malcontent on other people.

    Nothing is wrong with it, hayseedlady. It is very admirable. I hope and believe I would ultimately do the same because you are right, it is a Christian virtue.

    But nothing is wrong with having honest, human emotions either. It doesn't mean they are all-consuming, but they do happen from time to time. You've never been very angry with ANYONE? If so, you are a true saint. I'm not - I am flawed. And sometimes, it takes time to heal before one can be charitable and forgiving. You can't force it - it has to be sincere.

    And I don't think her emotions were extended to the child. I didn't get that sense. Of course, none of this is the child's fault.
    Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali


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  • medussamedussa Posts: 12,993Registered Users
    Amneris wrote:
    And I don't think her emotions were extended to the child.

    No, they aren't. The baby is about 2 1/2 now, his mom is 18 now.

    I just talked to this woman to see if she'd calmed down. She said she really doesn't care about the girl. And she feels that what goes around comes around. My sense from the conversation is that she still hasn't gotten over the betrayal. She found out about the affair and the other woman's pregnancy while she was pg herself---the babies are exactly 1 year apart. I know her world came crashing down. I don't think she has ever recovered from it.

    As for the guy...he's NFG (no f*cking good). Never has been, never will be. I won't get into it but will only say that he's pond scum and I'm not surprised by anything he does.

    It sounds like she's starting to redirect her anger and is starting to question whether she should even allow him to be involved with their daughters. He disappears for months at a time. He's just not a good father-figure. I hope she comes to her senses soon and moves on.
  • M2LRM2LR Posts: 8,630Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Amneris wrote:
    What is wrong with trying to be the best person you can? Is it that hard to put behind you any hard feelings and help someone in the moment of need? Why do most people have to carry a grudge or hate of people that seems to be all consuming. I see why he brought it up, even though the child was born of SIN it doesn't mean it can't have some love and happiness. That is a true sign of a devote Christian is someone who can forgive and turn the other cheek. Not someone who harbors a hate and wishes malcontent on other people.

    Nothing is wrong with it, hayseedlady. It is very admirable. I hope and believe I would ultimately do the same because you are right, it is a Christian virtue.

    But nothing is wrong with having honest, human emotions either. It doesn't mean they are all-consuming, but they do happen from time to time. You've never been very angry with ANYONE? If so, you are a true saint. I'm not - I am flawed. And sometimes, it takes time to heal before one can be charitable and forgiving. You can't force it - it has to be sincere.

    And I don't think her emotions were extended to the child. I didn't get that sense. Of course, none of this is the child's fault.

    Having emotions is part of being human.

    However, one does need to learn to take control of them. I can be anrgy with people or whatever, but does that give me the right to scream at them? No, of course not.

    Medussa, I think that you're right in that she's probably redirectng her anger, although, cheating is a very big thing to try and forgive. Especially if the man has another child with this woman. There are things that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. I would never wish that someone die, or be raped and beaten, just doesn't seem justified. Because I am angry over something that my husband did, I should say, "Serves her right?" I don't think so, not in my opinion. I can TOTALLY understand her anger, though. I think that sometimes when things happen to us that stirke up such strong feelings and emotions, we say things that just kind of come out. I cna also see how she might feel hatred towards this woman, however, it takes two to cheat, right? I would have a tendency to base more of my anger towards my husband, had he ever done anything like this.
    :rambo:
  • hayseedladyhayseedlady Posts: 646Registered Users
    Amneris wrote:
    What is wrong with trying to be the best person you can? Is it that hard to put behind you any hard feelings and help someone in the moment of need? Why do most people have to carry a grudge or hate of people that seems to be all consuming. I see why he brought it up, even though the child was born of SIN it doesn't mean it can't have some love and happiness. That is a true sign of a devote Christian is someone who can forgive and turn the other cheek. Not someone who harbors a hate and wishes malcontent on other people.

    Nothing is wrong with it, hayseedlady. It is very admirable. I hope and believe I would ultimately do the same because you are right, it is a Christian virtue.

    But nothing is wrong with having honest, human emotions either. It doesn't mean they are all-consuming, but they do happen from time to time. You've never been very angry with ANYONE? If so, you are a true saint. I'm not - I am flawed. And sometimes, it takes time to heal before one can be charitable and forgiving. You can't force it - it has to be sincere.

    And I don't think her emotions were extended to the child. I didn't get that sense. Of course, none of this is the child's fault.

    Me a saint, oh sweet goddess....bwah!

    I have learned to be disappointed in people, but I understand everyone has their faults, I try not to pass judgement and if I do I use a sliding scale. I handle my emotions by becoming reclusive, I cut off any contact until I can handle my emotions, may that be an hour or a couple of days. I don't let my passions handle me I handle them, you can't go through life with knee jerk reactions to everything you see. You have to pick your battles wisely, young grasshopper. Passion, jealousy and hate are very close emotions that cause the most pain, to anyone.

    The hardest lesson in life so far is learning when to Shut the hell up, smile and offer help. Because it really sucks when you are in need of a hand and nobody cares. Sometimes your worst enemy will become your closest defender, just because of one little offer.
  • starinastarina Posts: 665Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Amneris, all of your posts have stated it perfectly IMO. Such ugly emotions are hard to understand, but I do because I lived it. My ex's cheating devastated me and my child's lives, we were financially ruined, and I suffered severe depression. I understand what would compel a person to feel the way she did. I'm not saying it's right and I hope that when she's in a more rational state of mind she will rethink her feelings. Anger is a normal emotion and needs to run its course, but then you need to let it go or it will poison you.
    I have 3A hair. I've discovered Jessicurl shampoo and Too Shea conditioner and I'm thrilled! Long-time LA Looks sport gel user.
  • SaKkehSaKkeh Posts: 986Registered Users
    medussa wrote:
    Well, not so hypothetical. I know someone whose hubby had a baby with a minor (16 at the time, I believe). They had problems to begin with, but the affair was the nail in the coffin. The couple separates. Some time passes. Hubby decides he wants to be part of his daughters lives (this person and her husband have a 1 1/2 year-old and 4 year-old together). I'm not sure how involved the couple is with regard to their relationship. I suspect they have been intimate again. Anyway, this person I know gets a call from her hubby and he tells her that something terrible has happened--his baby's momma has been raped and beaten. This person says, "what the hell you telling me for? I couldn't care less." :shock: In fact, this woman goes as far as saying that it serves the girl right. He gets upset with her and questions her morals and integrity, as a the mother of two girls. She's furious he even had the nerve to tell her about it.

    What surprised me was her reaction to the news. Good for the girl? Sheesh, she was raped and beaten. :cry: I don't know. This person says, "if your dh cheated and had a baby with another woman, you'd feel the same way." I don't think so. I really don't. I'd hate my dh's guts for cheating on me. I'd be pissed at her for knowingly cheating with a married man. But I wouldn't be indifferent about her being raped. I think I'd feel bad for her.

    How would you feel?

    Its hard to judge her morals/integrity based on that reaction. She was probably still hurting from being burnt. People never truly forgive something like that. Its VERY hard to do. Not saying her reaction was right, just saying if you are not in the person's shoes, dont judge.
    Secondly, I think the guy made a bad call by telling her about his baby momma's rape. It wasnt any of her business. He may have needed someone to talk to, but this wasnt the right person.
  • medussamedussa Posts: 12,993Registered Users
    starina wrote:
    Amneris, all of your posts have stated it perfectly IMO. Such ugly emotions are hard to understand, but I do because I lived it. My ex's cheating devastated me and my child's lives, we were financially ruined, and I suffered severe depression. I understand what would compel a person to feel the way she did. I'm not saying it's right and I hope that when she's in a more rational state of mind she will rethink her feelings. Anger is a normal emotion and needs to run its course, but then you need to let it go or it will poison you.

    Thanks for sharing your experience. I hope you're in a better place now. smile_hug.gif
  • starinastarina Posts: 665Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Thanks medusa! I am in a better place. It took a long, long time, but I've finally put it behind me.
    I have 3A hair. I've discovered Jessicurl shampoo and Too Shea conditioner and I'm thrilled! Long-time LA Looks sport gel user.

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