CurlTalk

Omigosh!

Guess what? There was one hairdresser I had when I lived in humid Medford Oregon for two years(this was like 5 or 6 years ago) that swore by this shampoo/conditioner duo. I used it, liked it and for some reason my hair felt dry. I mean it's meant for dry/damaged hair. Bought some last year, and still have some of the conditioner. So just this morning I did a check. This is Back to Basics Raspberry Almond Reparative Conditioner. Here's what I found:

1) Cyclomethicone
2) Cetrimonium Chloride
3) Dimethicone
4) Amodimethicone
5) Trideceth-12

Needless to say I was shocked. :shock: Here I thought this product was higher end (especially since it's like $25 a liter) 5 different cones! And here the Suave that I have under my sink has only 1.

I guess I really need to read labels now that I have made a list to take to the store with me. :wink: But in a couple weeks I am seriously thinking of Jessicurl.

On a lighter note though I did get my hair layered at Supercuts the other day. Yeah Supercuts, I have never been there, was scared they'd chop it off like other places etc. But they did a good job. Plus being working part time, being at home with the kids, and being a part time student the price was right! When I get my hair de-coned I will place some pics, right now, no way! :goofy:
/home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2FTLGuerrero%2F" class="Popup

password: curly

3B w/3A underneath

Medium texture
Average porosity

Crazy-picky hair; likes some oils and proteins, but not others, can tolerate some glycerin.

Current products-
Co-wash: Suave/Vo5/TJ Refresh
Rinse out & Leave in: Suave Tropical Coconut/Garnier Triple Nutrition
Gel: Herbal Essences Set Me Up/Aussie Tizz No Frizz

Comments

  • cymprenicympreni Posts: 9,609Registered Users
    I've noticed alot of dry/damaged hair products are quite harsh and loaded with cones, harsher then their normal/healthy hair counterparts. I guess that's how they get people to keep using. They all have these sales pitches that "over time" blah blah blah, so you keep using and using, and getting more damage from ingredients. That's how I got sucked into years of pantene usage, then one day, I realized I'd been using it for years and was still waiting for their promised improvement.
  • zeldagoblinzeldagoblin Posts: 575Registered Users
    I didn't know Cetrimonium Chloride was bad! It's in my alltime fave CO wash condish...what does it do?
    Here are my curly pics, password is fuzz

    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2Fzeldagoblin%2F" class="Popup

    But then again, too few to mention...
  • redcelticcurlsredcelticcurls Posts: 17,502Registered Users
    I didn't know Cetrimonium Chloride was bad! It's in my alltime fave CO wash condish...what does it do?

    I don't think it is bad. It's a conditioning agent/detangler IIRC.
    Kiva! Microfinance works.

    Med/Coarse, porous curly.
  • zeldagoblinzeldagoblin Posts: 575Registered Users
    I didn't know Cetrimonium Chloride was bad! It's in my alltime fave CO wash condish...what does it do?

    I don't think it is bad. It's a conditioning agent/detangler IIRC.

    Pheeeww! That's a relief, thanks RCC :wink:
    Here are my curly pics, password is fuzz

    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2Fzeldagoblin%2F" class="Popup

    But then again, too few to mention...
  • Oregano  (formerly babywavy)Oregano (formerly babywavy) Posts: 5,297Registered Users
    Cones aren't necessarily bad. I think people translate them to being bad b/c of the whole CG thing, but really, they're not. Other than the cyclopentasiloxane, that causes a problem with some curlies.

    But seriously, what is the issue with cones? Nothing really. The issue is that when you choose not to shampoo, then they will build up on your hair. It has nothing to do w/ the ingredients themselves, but rather, the fact that you've chosen to follow a routine that doesn't allow silicones in it.

    If you follow a different method, or even have a different type hair, you may do well with these ingredients.
    ~ the artist formerly known as babywavy ~

    Please excuse any typos. For the time being, we are blaming it on my computer.
  • JuicyTubeJuicyTube Posts: 2,369Registered Users
    babywavy wrote:
    But seriously, what is the issue with cones? Nothing really. The issue is that when you choose not to shampoo, then they will build up on your hair. It has nothing to do w/ the ingredients themselves, but rather, the fact that you've chosen to follow a routine that doesn't allow silicones in it.
    They keep moisture out of the hair. The combination of harsh sulfates and non water soluble cones will give you overall more dry hair than no sulfates and no cones at all because nothing will be there to dry it out in the first place.
    3b-3c CG
  • legette68legette68 Posts: 216Registered Users
    What are the cones that are water soluble? I know that there are some that can rinse off with a CO Wash.
    Thick, coarse 3C hair:coffee:
    BC Feb 2009/ relaxer free since 06/08
    Second time around!

    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2Flegette68" class="Popup
  • JuicyTubeJuicyTube Posts: 2,369Registered Users
    legette68 wrote:
    What are the cones that are water soluble? I know that there are some that can rinse off with a CO Wash.
    peg/ppg # silicones
    dimethicone copolyol
    hydrolyzed silicones
    3b-3c CG
  • legette68legette68 Posts: 216Registered Users
    How about dimethicone, dimethiconol, cyclomethicone?
    Thick, coarse 3C hair:coffee:
    BC Feb 2009/ relaxer free since 06/08
    Second time around!

    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2Flegette68" class="Popup
  • marinacurlzmarinacurlz Posts: 1,720Registered Users
    I looked on sweetpeacurli's website and it stated that all that I mentioned that were in my conditioner were not water soluble. And I found Cetrimonium Chloride in many of the products I was looking at in the store today. According to the list there are only a few that are water soluble(and don't dry out the hair). These are the ones that were listed as water soluble:

    Dimethicone Copolyol
    Hydrolized wheat protein /Hydroxypropyl Polysiloxane
    Lauryl methicone copolyol


    However there was a couple that were sparingly soluble:

    Behenoy Dimethicone
    Stearoxy Dimethicone

    Check out sweetpeacurli's website she's a real gem!

    P.S. I decided to junk the oil serum stuff I had that was loaded with cones and well I thought I would see how it did in hot water. I poured some into hot running water in my bathroom sink and (mind you this was scalding water) well it stayed on top of the water like an oil sludge. Got me thinking "why do we put THAT in our hair!?"
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2FTLGuerrero%2F" class="Popup

    password: curly

    3B w/3A underneath

    Medium texture
    Average porosity

    Crazy-picky hair; likes some oils and proteins, but not others, can tolerate some glycerin.

    Current products-
    Co-wash: Suave/Vo5/TJ Refresh
    Rinse out & Leave in: Suave Tropical Coconut/Garnier Triple Nutrition
    Gel: Herbal Essences Set Me Up/Aussie Tizz No Frizz
  • redcelticcurlsredcelticcurls Posts: 17,502Registered Users
    I looked on sweetpeacurli's website and it stated that all that I mentioned that were in my conditioner were not water soluble. And I found Cetrimonium Chloride in many of the products I was looking at in the store today. According to the list there are only a few that are water soluble(and don't dry out the hair). These are the ones that were listed as water soluble:

    Dimethicone Copolyol
    Hydrolized wheat protein /Hydroxypropyl Polysiloxane
    Lauryl methicone copolyol


    However there was a couple that were sparingly soluble:

    Behenoy Dimethicone
    Stearoxy Dimethicone

    Check out sweetpeacurli's website she's a real gem!

    P.S. I decided to junk the oil serum stuff I had that was loaded with cones and well I thought I would see how it did in hot water. I poured some into hot running water in my bathroom sink and (mind you this was scalding water) well it stayed on top of the water like an oil sludge. Got me thinking "why do we put THAT in our hair!?"

    I was all over (or so I thought) sweetpeacali's site, and i couldn't find the part you mentioned about cetrimonium chloride. If you could link that specific part, I greatly appreciate it so we can better address the ingredient issue. I've only been here about a year, but this is the first i've heard of it being a cone.

    You may be confusing cetrimonium chloride with Cetearyl methicone and
    Cetyl Dimethicone. Those two cones are not water soluble.

    Cetrimonium chloride isn't a cone at all. Technically it's a quaternary ammonium salt. You will probably commonly find it because it is useful for detangling and helps to make a formula rich.

    If your products list cones that are PEG modified, then they will be water soluble as well. Dimethicone alone isn't water soluble, but PEG-8 dimethicone, for example, is water soluble. It's such craziness.

    IIRC trideceth-12 is an emulsifier and stabilizer - which helps to bind water loving and oil loving ingredients in a conditioner.

    Some cones are not water soluble, but can be removed by gentler cleansing agents such as cocobetaine, which tends to less harsh than sulfates.

    http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlcolumns/articles.php?id=5341
    Kiva! Microfinance works.

    Med/Coarse, porous curly.
  • redcelticcurlsredcelticcurls Posts: 17,502Registered Users
    babywavy wrote:
    Cones aren't necessarily bad. I think people translate them to being bad b/c of the whole CG thing, but really, they're not. Other than the cyclopentasiloxane, that causes a problem with some curlies.

    But seriously, what is the issue with cones? Nothing really. The issue is that when you choose not to shampoo, then they will build up on your hair. It has nothing to do w/ the ingredients themselves, but rather, the fact that you've chosen to follow a routine that doesn't allow silicones in it.

    If you follow a different method, or even have a different type hair, you may do well with these ingredients.

    True enough. While my hair isn't fond of them, plenty here seem to be able to use them (or at least some of the easier ones like amodimethicone) with minimal problems.
    Kiva! Microfinance works.

    Med/Coarse, porous curly.
  • Oregano  (formerly babywavy)Oregano (formerly babywavy) Posts: 5,297Registered Users
    JuicyTube wrote:
    babywavy wrote:
    But seriously, what is the issue with cones? Nothing really. The issue is that when you choose not to shampoo, then they will build up on your hair. It has nothing to do w/ the ingredients themselves, but rather, the fact that you've chosen to follow a routine that doesn't allow silicones in it.
    They keep moisture out of the hair. The combination of harsh sulfates and non water soluble cones will give you overall more dry hair than no sulfates and no cones at all because nothing will be there to dry it out in the first place.

    I believe it's the build up of these that keeps moisture out of the hair. Somebody who combines moisturizing ingredients along w/ some cones, and shampoos only occasionally, may be moisturized enough for their hair type. The cones are obviously not keeping moisture out completely, or else everyone would have dried out hair.
    ~ the artist formerly known as babywavy ~

    Please excuse any typos. For the time being, we are blaming it on my computer.
  • legette68legette68 Posts: 216Registered Users
    Thanks for the info on cones. I think I have a better understanding of them now.
    Thick, coarse 3C hair:coffee:
    BC Feb 2009/ relaxer free since 06/08
    Second time around!

    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2Flegette68" class="Popup
  • marinacurlzmarinacurlz Posts: 1,720Registered Users
    Maybe that Cetrimonium Chloride isn't bad alone then. The site did say that when it was mixed with Amodimethicone (and) Trideceth-12 it creates a mixture that is water soluble in the bottle. Guess it's not so good on the hair once ya put it on. Who knows. I do remember a stylist telling me that the main ingredients in drugstore shampoos are salt and water, which strip the hair and so on. So if Cetrimonium Chloride is okay by itself, then knock yourself out. TTFN
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2FTLGuerrero%2F" class="Popup

    password: curly

    3B w/3A underneath

    Medium texture
    Average porosity

    Crazy-picky hair; likes some oils and proteins, but not others, can tolerate some glycerin.

    Current products-
    Co-wash: Suave/Vo5/TJ Refresh
    Rinse out & Leave in: Suave Tropical Coconut/Garnier Triple Nutrition
    Gel: Herbal Essences Set Me Up/Aussie Tizz No Frizz