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Death

SpringcurlSpringcurl Posts: 8,002Registered Users
No need for debates. I'm just curious.
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Obamacare is not a blueprint for socialism. You're thinking of the New Testament. ~~ John Fugelsang



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Comments

  • Who Me?Who Me? Posts: 3,181Registered Users
    I actually wrote a paper on this subject once. The two issues do not align like you (general "you") think they might at all. It was an interesting paper to research.
    "I don't know! I don't know why I did it, I don't know why I enjoyed it, and I don't know why I'll do it again!" -BART SIMPSON
  • NetGNetG Posts: 8,116Registered Users
    I'm anti-abortion but pro-choice, so I can't really vote in this poll.
    The pews never miss a sermon but that doesn't get them one step closer to Heaven.
    -Speckla

    But at least the pews never attend yoga!
  • SpringcurlSpringcurl Posts: 8,002Registered Users
    NetG wrote:
    I'm anti-abortion but pro-choice, so I can't really vote in this poll.


    I don't get it. I have pro-choice options up there. I used the terms "anti-abortion" to stay away from the "pro-life" label, which I personally don't like when describing someone who is anti-abortion.
    TWINKLES.gifTWINKLES.gifTWINKLES.gif

    Obamacare is not a blueprint for socialism. You're thinking of the New Testament. ~~ John Fugelsang



  • PartyHairPartyHair Posts: 7,713Registered Users
    Springcurl wrote:
    NetG wrote:
    I'm anti-abortion but pro-choice, so I can't really vote in this poll.


    I don't get it. I have pro-choice options up there. I used the terms "anti-abortion" to stay away from the "pro-life" label, which I personally don't like when describing someone who is anti-abortion.

    I'm also anti-abortion personally (I don't think I'd ever get an abortion), but pro-choice when it comes to how I vote (I don't ever want abortion to be illegal). So I went with the pro-choice option that best fit my views on the death penalty.
    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

    Rock on with your bad self.

    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

    Be excellent to each other. ~ Abraham Lincoln

    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
  • AmbrosiaAmbrosia Posts: 60Registered Users
    Who Me? wrote:
    I actually wrote a paper on this subject once. The two issues do not align like you (general "you") think they might at all. It was an interesting paper to research.

    just curious, how do the issues actually align?
  • Who Me?Who Me? Posts: 3,181Registered Users
    Ambrosia wrote:
    Who Me? wrote:
    I actually wrote a paper on this subject once. The two issues do not align like you (general "you") think they might at all. It was an interesting paper to research.

    just curious, how do the issues actually align?

    As soon as I posted I was thinking that I really shouldn't have said that since I can't remember the details of the paper! It was a few years ago. The basis was that one would expect that people are either pro-death or pro-life, as in support the death penalty and abortion, or are against the death penalty and abortion. This was not the case. I think the majority of people who are pro-choice are against the death penalty. I wish I could remember all the reasons--they weren't situated on moral beliefs nearly as much as other factors. I'll see if I can find the paper when I get home. I definitely think it was the most interesting paper I've ever written.
    "I don't know! I don't know why I did it, I don't know why I enjoyed it, and I don't know why I'll do it again!" -BART SIMPSON
  • curlygirlinvacurlygirlinva Posts: 9Registered Users
    Springcurl wrote:
    NetG wrote:
    I'm anti-abortion but pro-choice, so I can't really vote in this poll.


    I don't get it. I have pro-choice options up there. I used the terms "anti-abortion" to stay away from the "pro-life" label, which I personally don't like when describing someone who is anti-abortion.

    I think NetG means that she is pro-choice, but could not personally have an abortion. I feel the same way.
  • NetGNetG Posts: 8,116Registered Users
    Springcurl wrote:
    NetG wrote:
    I'm anti-abortion but pro-choice, so I can't really vote in this poll.


    I don't get it. I have pro-choice options up there. I used the terms "anti-abortion" to stay away from the "pro-life" label, which I personally don't like when describing someone who is anti-abortion.

    I think NetG means that she is pro-choice, but could not personally have an abortion. I feel the same way.

    Exactly. I don't *think* I could, and I think some people are too nonchalant about abortions. However, I would vehemently disagree with anyone trying to make abortions illegal.

    Disclaimer: I don't think I could, but can't ever truly know until I'm in a situation where one might be warranted. I know I wouldn't for an unplanned pregnancy, but for birth defects/etc., I have no idea what I'd do.
    The pews never miss a sermon but that doesn't get them one step closer to Heaven.
    -Speckla

    But at least the pews never attend yoga!
  • mazeymazey Posts: 709Registered Users
    But either way, you are still pro-choice so one of Springcurl's options fits you. I think people assume pro-choice means you are not anti-abortion which is a silly assumption since a lot of women I know feel the same way you do.
    Madonna getting upset with her daughter for dressing too slutty is like Mr. T getting upset with his son for pitying too many fools.
  • M2LRM2LR Posts: 8,630Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Pro choice means "Pro the woman's right to chose." Not Pro-abortion.

    I am pro-choice simply because I think that the choice needs to be there, whatever your reasons for utilizing it or not - reasons people have abortions are theirs...

    Pro-death penalty? Yup.
    :rambo:
  • NetGNetG Posts: 8,116Registered Users
    mazey wrote:
    But either way, you are still pro-choice so one of Springcurl's options fits you. I think people assume pro-choice means you are not anti-abortion which is a silly assumption since a lot of women I know feel the same way you do.

    Except that the other option is anti-abortion. Which I am, also.

    My personal experience with abortion is that I have two friends who had them. One of them, with counseling, I'm almost positive would have kept the baby. The other one-probably still would have had the abortion. However, both would have had a much, much better idea of the emotional aspect of it afterward. My one judgment in regards to abortion is that the people running clinics are doing a disservice if they're not at least helping women understand what they'll have to deal with afterward. (I don't think it was on this board, where someone mentioned how when Miranda was thinking about abortion and asked Samantha how long it took to get over the abortion her response was that she was still working on it.)
    The pews never miss a sermon but that doesn't get them one step closer to Heaven.
    -Speckla

    But at least the pews never attend yoga!
  • PartyHairPartyHair Posts: 7,713Registered Users
    NetG wrote:
    mazey wrote:
    But either way, you are still pro-choice so one of Springcurl's options fits you. I think people assume pro-choice means you are not anti-abortion which is a silly assumption since a lot of women I know feel the same way you do.

    Except that the other option is anti-abortion. Which I am, also.

    My personal experience with abortion is that I have two friends who had them. One of them, with counseling, I'm almost positive would have kept the baby. The other one-probably still would have had the abortion. However, both would have had a much, much better idea of the emotional aspect of it afterward. My one judgment in regards to abortion is that the people running clinics are doing a disservice if they're not at least helping women understand what they'll have to deal with afterward. (I don't think it was on this board, where someone mentioned how when Miranda was thinking about abortion and asked Samantha how long it took to get over the abortion her response was that she was still working on it.)

    You'd be categorized as pro-choice because you want abortion to remain legal and available to any woman who makes that choice.
    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

    Rock on with your bad self.

    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

    Be excellent to each other. ~ Abraham Lincoln

    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
  • NetGNetG Posts: 8,116Registered Users
    PartyHair wrote:
    You'd be categorized as pro-choice because you want abortion to remain legal and available to any woman who makes that choice.

    In real life, absolutely. What I'm talking about is this poll-which gives the options of pro-choice and anti-abortion. I am both.



    Really, I'm just being obnoxious, so y'all can just ignore me now... :oops:
    The pews never miss a sermon but that doesn't get them one step closer to Heaven.
    -Speckla

    But at least the pews never attend yoga!
  • PartyHairPartyHair Posts: 7,713Registered Users
    NetG wrote:
    PartyHair wrote:
    You'd be categorized as pro-choice because you want abortion to remain legal and available to any woman who makes that choice.

    In real life, absolutely. What I'm talking about is this poll-which gives the options of pro-choice and anti-abortion. I am both.



    Really, I'm just being obnoxious, so y'all can just ignore me now... :oops:

    Well, as I said above I went with the pro-choice option that matched my views on the death penalty even though I personally am anti-abortion for myself.
    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

    Rock on with your bad self.

    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

    Be excellent to each other. ~ Abraham Lincoln

    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
  • alguma pessoaalguma pessoa Posts: 619Registered Users
    It is my understanding that pro-choice does not mean pro-abortion. I always understood it as supporting the right for women to choose regardless if you advocate abortion or not. Regardless of my feelings on the subject, I do not think that laws should be implemented to take away a woman's right to choose or that people should criticize women who have it because I am sure these women have their own personal hell to go through if they choose to abort their baby. (I am not saying that anyone on this board is saying this).

    These are just my opinions.
    We're all born mad. Some remain so.

    br-flag1.gif
  • NetGNetG Posts: 8,116Registered Users
    cehua wrote:
    It is my understanding that pro-choice does not mean pro-abortion. I always understood it as supporting the right for women to choose regardless if you advocate abortion or not. Regardless of my feelings on the subject, I do not think that laws should be implemented to take away a woman's right to choose or that people should criticize women who have it because I am sure these women have their own personal hell to go through if they choose to abort their baby. (I am not saying that anyone on this board is saying this).

    These are just my opinions.

    Yup. And the new generation of feminists is turning the dialogue into discussion of choice in all matters-education, birth control, prenatal care, etc. Because pro-choice shouldn't be JUST pro-abortion, and the people who want abortion illegal have steered the conversation into one just about abortion, instead of about true life choices.
    The pews never miss a sermon but that doesn't get them one step closer to Heaven.
    -Speckla

    But at least the pews never attend yoga!
  • mazeymazey Posts: 709Registered Users
    cehua wrote:
    It is my understanding that pro-choice does not mean pro-abortion. I always understood it as supporting the right for women to choose regardless if you advocate abortion or not.

    Exactly!
    Madonna getting upset with her daughter for dressing too slutty is like Mr. T getting upset with his son for pitying too many fools.
  • GuardianBGuardianB Posts: 1,818Registered Users
    cehua wrote:
    I do not think that laws should be implemented to take away a woman's right to choose

    Anything taking away anybody's right to choose anything (in this country) is against what is what founded on.
    ~Two friends, one soul inspired~ anonymous
  • alguma pessoaalguma pessoa Posts: 619Registered Users
    GuardianB wrote:
    cehua wrote:
    I do not think that laws should be implemented to take away a woman's right to choose

    Anything taking away anybody's right to choose anything (in this country) is against what is what founded on.

    I agree, but it is headed that way.....
    We're all born mad. Some remain so.

    br-flag1.gif
  • PartyHairPartyHair Posts: 7,713Registered Users
    cehua wrote:
    GuardianB wrote:
    cehua wrote:
    I do not think that laws should be implemented to take away a woman's right to choose

    Anything taking away anybody's right to choose anything (in this country) is against what is what founded on.

    I agree, but it is headed that way.....

    I agree. There's a slippery slope and we're headed straight for it.
    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

    Rock on with your bad self.

    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

    Be excellent to each other. ~ Abraham Lincoln

    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
  • AmbrosiaAmbrosia Posts: 60Registered Users
    Who Me? wrote:
    Ambrosia wrote:
    Who Me? wrote:
    I actually wrote a paper on this subject once. The two issues do not align like you (general "you") think they might at all. It was an interesting paper to research.

    just curious, how do the issues actually align?

    As soon as I posted I was thinking that I really shouldn't have said that since I can't remember the details of the paper! It was a few years ago. The basis was that one would expect that people are either pro-death or pro-life, as in support the death penalty and abortion, or are against the death penalty and abortion. This was not the case. I think the majority of people who are pro-choice are against the death penalty. I wish I could remember all the reasons--they weren't situated on moral beliefs nearly as much as other factors. I'll see if I can find the paper when I get home. I definitely think it was the most interesting paper I've ever written.

    just my non-researched opinion, but i would expect the results to come out as you said they did. i always thought the issue to be less of a stance on whether to implement death (or not), and more of a stance on the role of the law. for example, social liberals, may advocate less intervention of the the law: the law cannot/should not make a decision on life/death, hence pro-choice and against death penalty. on the other hand, social conservatives would advocate the law to intervene when it seems necessary, hence pro-life and for death penalty.

    ...less to do with a stance on death and more to do with a stance on the role of the law.

    im sure there are moral components too, but youre right, they way the tendencies fall, they dont seem to align so obviously on a moral plane.

    ...interesting paper topic.
  • alguma pessoaalguma pessoa Posts: 619Registered Users
    Ambrosia wrote:
    I always thought the issue to be less of a stance on whether to implement death (or not), and more of a stance on the role of the law.
    I am sure there are moral components too, but youre right, they way the tendencies fall, they dont seem to align so obviously on a moral plane.
    I agree
    We're all born mad. Some remain so.

    br-flag1.gif
  • Who Me?Who Me? Posts: 3,181Registered Users
    cehua wrote:
    Ambrosia wrote:
    I always thought the issue to be less of a stance on whether to implement death (or not), and more of a stance on the role of the law.
    I am sure there are moral components too, but youre right, they way the tendencies fall, they dont seem to align so obviously on a moral plane.
    I agree

    I like the way you explained that, Ambrosia, that was definitely a major point in my paper. The class was called "Sociology of Bioethics", so we had approached it from an ethical, rather than legal, standpoint, and hence the class generally thinking that those people against the death penalty would also be against abortion.
    "I don't know! I don't know why I did it, I don't know why I enjoyed it, and I don't know why I'll do it again!" -BART SIMPSON
  • GuardianBGuardianB Posts: 1,818Registered Users
    Is that kinda like "I brought you in this world, I'll take you out" :lol: :twisted:
    ~Two friends, one soul inspired~ anonymous
  • sew and sewsew and sew Posts: 3,443Registered Users
    PartyHair wrote:
    cehua wrote:
    GuardianB wrote:
    cehua wrote:
    I do not think that laws should be implemented to take away a woman's right to choose

    Anything taking away anybody's right to choose anything (in this country) is against what is what founded on.

    I agree, but it is headed that way.....

    I agree. There's a slippery slope and we're headed straight for it.

    I really don't think we're headed that way. A lot of Bush fans might support that and there's been talk about overturning Roe v. Wade, but the likelehood of that happening IMO is really slim. And then considering the mentality of the younger generation regarding these issues, actually expect the opposite.
    “It was only a sunny smile and little it cost in the giving but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living.” - F. Scott Fitzgerald

    3B ■ Medium/Course ■ High Porosity
  • alguma pessoaalguma pessoa Posts: 619Registered Users
    PartyHair wrote:
    cehua wrote:
    GuardianB wrote:
    cehua wrote:
    I do not think that laws should be implemented to take away a woman's right to choose

    Anything taking away anybody's right to choose anything (in this country) is against what is what founded on.

    I agree, but it is headed that way.....

    I agree. There's a slippery slope and we're headed straight for it.

    I really don't think we're headed that way. A lot of Bush fans might suupport that and there's been talk about overturning Roe v. Wade, but the liklehood of that happening IMO is really slim. And then considering the mentality of the younger generation regarding these issues, actually expect the opposite.
    I was referring to choices in general, not just abortion.
    We're all born mad. Some remain so.

    br-flag1.gif
  • PartyHairPartyHair Posts: 7,713Registered Users
    cehua wrote:
    PartyHair wrote:
    cehua wrote:
    GuardianB wrote:
    cehua wrote:
    I do not think that laws should be implemented to take away a woman's right to choose

    Anything taking away anybody's right to choose anything (in this country) is against what is what founded on.

    I agree, but it is headed that way.....

    I agree. There's a slippery slope and we're headed straight for it.

    I really don't think we're headed that way. A lot of Bush fans might suupport that and there's been talk about overturning Roe v. Wade, but the liklehood of that happening IMO is really slim. And then considering the mentality of the younger generation regarding these issues, actually expect the opposite.
    I was referring to choices in general, not just abortion.

    Me too. (Here, cehua, I'll just follow you around this thread agreeing with you. :D )
    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

    Rock on with your bad self.

    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

    Be excellent to each other. ~ Abraham Lincoln

    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
  • sew and sewsew and sew Posts: 3,443Registered Users
    Ah. I was more quoting Party Hair, but considering that's what you meant, then she probably was responding to that. In that vein then, ITA :lol:
    “It was only a sunny smile and little it cost in the giving but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living.” - F. Scott Fitzgerald

    3B ■ Medium/Course ■ High Porosity
  • ScaryCurlScaryCurl Posts: 138Registered Users
    cehua wrote:
    It is my understanding that pro-choice does not mean pro-abortion.

    I can understand the difference. Just like it ticks me off when pro-lifers are labeled as anti-choice. I know it's all semantics, but pro-life and anti-choice just are not synonomous. KWIM?
    Hair type: 3C. Favorite products for the moment: CONDITIONER: Elucence MBC, LEAVE-IN COND: Curls Rock. CURL ENHANCER: Frederic Fekkai Luscious Curls. GEL: Ouidad Climate Control (HG), FINISHING: Frederic Fekkai Glossing Creme.
  • SpringcurlSpringcurl Posts: 8,002Registered Users
    A lot of Bush fans might support that and there's been talk about overturning Roe v. Wade, but the liklehood of that happening IMO is really slim. And then considering the mentality of the younger generation regarding these issues, actually expect the opposite.

    Please keep in mind that it was the "older generation" that fought to get Roe V. Wade enacted in the first place.

    In addition, being pro-choice because and working to keep abortion legal are two different things.

    If the "younger generation" wants to keep Roe V. Wade enacted (and believe me, it's not so iron-clad as you think) then then that "younger generation" better actually get out and vote.

    They were projected to be voting in droves during the last election and it just didn't happen.
    TWINKLES.gifTWINKLES.gifTWINKLES.gif

    Obamacare is not a blueprint for socialism. You're thinking of the New Testament. ~~ John Fugelsang



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