The Ivy League

FreeCurlsFreeCurls Registered Users Posts: 4,408
I was surfing the net and came across this article on the history of the Ivy League that I thought was interesting. I wonder how many people really know that the Ivy League grew out of football? Interesting that it is now mostly associated with education as opposed to sports.

History of the Ivy League

The basic intent of the original Ivy agreement was to improve and foster intercollegiate athletics

Are there any Ivy Leaguers on this board? Did you know the true roots of the league? Did you play sports?
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Comments

  • NetGNetG Registered Users Posts: 8,116
    FreeCurls wrote:
    Are there any Ivy Leaguers on this board? Did you know the true roots of the league? Did you play sports?

    Yup, yup, and yup.


    Though I learned the history from my tour of Princeton between my jr. and sr. years of high school. I thought I wanted to go to Princeton before then, did the tour and decided it just felt "wrong" to me, and instead went to a school I'd never seen. Smart, huh? :roll:
    The pews never miss a sermon but that doesn't get them one step closer to Heaven.
    -Speckla

    But at least the pews never attend yoga!
  • dia99dia99 Registered Users Posts: 1,998
    I was accepted with scholarship at Harvard. I chose Howard. My dad and five of his brothers and sisters went to Yale, Harvard, Princeton, and Brown for undergrad and/or law school (he had eighteen brothers and sisters - the rest of them graduated from other schools). Only two of them played sports in college. I had no idea that Ivy League was started for sports, and if that were still a major focus I probably wouldn't have been accepted at Harvard. My mom wouldn't let me play sports when I was growing up because I'm a girl. I'm still struggling with weight to this day (smile).

    Thanks for giving me some new information
    People rise to the standard expected of them. GC
  • PartyHairPartyHair Registered Users Posts: 7,713
    dia99 wrote:
    My dad and five of his brothers and sisters went to Yale, Harvard, Princeton, and Brown for undergrad and/or law school (he had eighteen brothers and sisters - the rest of them graduated from other schools).

    Ok, WOW that there were 19 kids in the family and even bigger WOW that they all graduated college! That's awesome!

    And here I thought having 32 cousins on Dad's side of the family made for big family reunions... :lol:
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  • NetGNetG Registered Users Posts: 8,116
    dia99 wrote:
    I had no idea that Ivy League was started for sports, and if that were still a major focus I probably wouldn't have been accepted at Harvard.

    It is in a sense. There's a work hard/play hard atmosphere, and also a sense that sports (or other extracurricular activities) help you mature into a more well-rounded and successful individual. Not that winning is necessary (and sports have gone downhill as far as competitiveness on a national level as far as the major sports go), but that doing sports, writing for the paper, being a member of an undergraduate society of some sort, all tend to help develop skills not developed through classwork alone.



    On a sidenote-dia99, did you get support from teachers/school system when you were looking at colleges? One of my big areas of interest is in how to get kids the knowledge of what they need to get into schools like Harvard. On another thread PartyHair said she wouldn't have gotten in somewhere like Harvard because she didn't go to a great high school, and I'm curious if you were somewhere that had that same type of attitude, too? You sound like you had a lot of family support for education, but I think a lot of the time the school support isn't there, and kids who don't have family who went to top schools don't know how much financial aid is available, what it takes to get in, etc. It makes me sad when I have friends who went to Howard because they didn't think they could get in to Harvard, as opposed to making the *choice* to go to Howard like you did. Different schools fit different personalities, etc., and I hate it when kids don't get to choose which school to go to for thinking they don't have a choice.
    The pews never miss a sermon but that doesn't get them one step closer to Heaven.
    -Speckla

    But at least the pews never attend yoga!
  • medussamedussa Registered Users Posts: 12,993
    I went to Columbia and didn't have a coordinated bone in my body. So, no sports for me.

    Our football team lost for many years and won their first game while I was a student there. Kind of ironic considering the history of the Ivy League.
  • FreeCurlsFreeCurls Registered Users Posts: 4,408
    medussa wrote:
    the history of the Ivy League.

    yeah, LOL. this site is interesting too www.ivyleaguesports.com
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  • Who Me?Who Me? Registered Users Posts: 3,181
    I went to an ivy league school and didn't play sports. I think I had heard that it was originally founded on football, though.

    My high school wasn't great, but I set out myself to find out about schools, and what their financial aid was, etc. My school (Penn) had need-blind acceptance, so FIRST you got accepted, THEN they looked at how much money they would need to give you. They also supply 100% of your demonstrated need, whether through loans or grants, etc. Had it not been for those policies, there is no way I would have been able to go.

    My school had some good sports teams, considering. We were ivy league champions in football, and went to the NCAA in basketball. :)

    Personally, I really like that ivy league schools (or at least Penn) do not offer athletic scholarships to get the good athletes to go there. You really have to want to learn, and we willing to work hard. The coaches do speak to the admissions committees on behalf of the good athletes, though, so they get in!

    Also, off topic, but in regards to the name "ivy league" i've heard rumors it's because apparently ivy only grows in the northeast where all the ivy league schools are, and also that it was orginally "IV league" where "IV" is the roman numeral for the number 4, meaning the original four ivy league schools, Harvard, Princeton, Yale, and Penn.
    "I don't know! I don't know why I did it, I don't know why I enjoyed it, and I don't know why I'll do it again!" -BART SIMPSON
  • CarriolaCarriola Registered Users Posts: 30
    It makes me sad when I have friends who went to Howard because they didn't think they could get in to Harvard, as opposed to making the *choice* to go to Howard like you did.


    Wow, you are pompous aren't you? I am a Howard Alum, my sister is a Harvard alum. Howard has so much more to offer than Harvard in so many ways, it depends on the individual. Don't go pitying people who attended Howard, people who got a kick ass education in the mecca of black culture in the US. Your poor friends, having to be around all those black people! As if Howard were the "runner up" college for black people who couldn't get into Harvard. Perhaps you could have benefited from a Howard education.
  • NetGNetG Registered Users Posts: 8,116
    Carriola wrote:
    It makes me sad when I have friends who went to Howard because they didn't think they could get in to Harvard, as opposed to making the *choice* to go to Howard like you did.


    Wow, you are pompous aren't you? I am a Howard Alum, my sister is a Harvard alum. Howard has so much more to offer than Harvard in so many ways, it depends on the individual. Don't go pitying people who attended Howard, people who got a kick ass education in the mecca of black culture in the US. Your poor friends, having to be around all those black people! As if Howard were the "runner up" college for black people who couldn't get into Harvard. Perhaps you could have benefited from a Howard education.

    Wow, you don't read or are defensive or something, huh?

    I said I feel bad who went there because they *thought* they couldn't go to Harvard. As opposed to people who *chose* to go there. Howard is absolutely a good school, and there are many reasons to choose it. I feel bad for the people who had lousy support from their schools and didn't know they had a *choice* of where to go. Regardless of race, regardless of anything else. I also used the example of PartyHair who said she couldn't get into Harvard-and I think she may have been wrong. Not knowing details about her grades/education, etc., of course, but I just hate that schools perpetuate the "you're not good enough" myth instead of letting people choose.

    My brother went Ivy, but I didn't want him to. I though Kansas was his best fit of schools he was interested in. Instead he went Ivy, played sports, and didn't graduate.

    But, no, it's not about race, and it's not me being egotistical, though thanks for being SO oversensitive you want to pick a fight.

    It's about the fact schools don't educate students on what options are out there. As Who Me? pointed out, the financial aid is there for people who need it (though it's hardest on the middle class, because the definition of "need" isn't what most people would agree with), and admissions are need blind. I know many people who may not have chosen an Ivy league school after getting in to one, but could have at least had that choice to make, if only their schools had shared info with them.


    And I'm thinking about a second career as a school guidance counselor someday.
    The pews never miss a sermon but that doesn't get them one step closer to Heaven.
    -Speckla

    But at least the pews never attend yoga!
  • CarriolaCarriola Registered Users Posts: 30
    I understood your point. Despite the fact that I went to a black school, I do read. It's just your attitude is consistently pompous, and you seem to think that you are an authority about many things. Regardless of a person's motivations for applying to Howard, whether or not they thought they could get in to Harvard, my opinion is that in many cases they lucked out that they didn't go to Harvard. Especially if they turn out condescending jackasses.
  • NetGNetG Registered Users Posts: 8,116
    Carriola wrote:
    I understood your point. Despite the fact that I went to a black school, I do read. It's just your attitude is consistently pompous, and you seem to think that you are an authority about many things. Regardless of a person's motivations for applying to Howard, whether or not they thought they could get in to Harvard, my opinion is that in many cases they lucked out that they didn't go to Harvard. Especially if they turn out condescending jackasses.

    Wow, I'm the condescending and pompous one? Wow.


    I didn't go to Harvard. I'm glad I didn't go to Harvard.

    I don't think it's the right choice for many people. Again.

    And again, I think Howard is a good school, and the right choice for many people. Some of the smartest, best engineers I've ever worked with went to Howard. Some of the worst I've ever worked with went to Harvard. It's not about one being better than the other, and I'm sorry you are so defensive you think I'm saying it is.

    And again, I just think it's sad when people don't think they have a choice, which they would have with decent school counselors. (And some school counselors are FANTASTIC. Some aren't. My brother's actually laughed at him when he said he was applying to Ivy League schools, and told him he should at least apply to some local junior colleges. She really thought he was joking. And while junior colleges are also an EXCELLENT idea in many, many cases, he was looking to play baseball at a four year school. It wasn't the choice for him.)

    Would I go Ivy again if I were to make the choice today? Possibly not. There's a whole lot of headache involved, particularly for those of us who were on financial aid. Maybe I would have gone to Princeton, because they're the ones who seem to be pushing to make it so life isn't as miserable for those on financial aid, while the others follow their lead grumbling all the way. But maybe I would have gone to a school which didn't have the name "Ivy" attached, from which I could have gotten just as good an education.



    I'm pretty convinced that the quality of the education depends on the student, not the school, and there are different opportunities in different areas.
    The pews never miss a sermon but that doesn't get them one step closer to Heaven.
    -Speckla

    But at least the pews never attend yoga!
  • PartyHairPartyHair Registered Users Posts: 7,713
    Carriola wrote:
    Despite the fact that I went to a black school, I do read.

    I know this shouldn't make me laugh but this made me laugh. It's just such a "Carrie" turn of phrase. :lol:

    sorry :oops:
    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

    Rock on with your bad self.

    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

    Be excellent to each other. ~ Abraham Lincoln

    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
  • NetGNetG Registered Users Posts: 8,116
    PartyHair wrote:
    Carriola wrote:
    Despite the fact that I went to a black school, I do read.

    I know this shouldn't make me laugh but this made me laugh. It's just such a "Carrie" turn of phrase. :lol:

    sorry :oops:

    Yeah, which I thought was funny, too.

    Except for the fact she was trying to imply I'm racist because I think it's sad how lousy some school guidance counselors are....
    The pews never miss a sermon but that doesn't get them one step closer to Heaven.
    -Speckla

    But at least the pews never attend yoga!
  • CarriolaCarriola Registered Users Posts: 30
    Why did you choose Howard as an example?
  • NetGNetG Registered Users Posts: 8,116
    Carriola wrote:
    Why did you choose Howard as an example?

    Because dia99 said she got into Harvard, but chose Howard.

    So I said I think it's sad that some people don't get to make that choice like she did..... I don't think it's sad she made that choice! I think it's awesome she GOT to make that choice, because she had enough educational support (and what an awesome family!) that she knew it was a choice she could make.
    The pews never miss a sermon but that doesn't get them one step closer to Heaven.
    -Speckla

    But at least the pews never attend yoga!
  • mousemouse Registered Users Posts: 39
    Some of the smartest, best engineers ever are named Howard.
    I agree.
    Descartes walks into a bar. The bartender says, "Can I pour you a beer?" Descartes says, "I think not," and disappears.
  • NetGNetG Registered Users Posts: 8,116
    mouse wrote:
    Some of the smartest, best engineers ever are named Howard.
    I agree.

    Ha!

    Hughes, for example?
    The pews never miss a sermon but that doesn't get them one step closer to Heaven.
    -Speckla

    But at least the pews never attend yoga!
  • dia99dia99 Registered Users Posts: 1,998
    Hey, Carriola - HU!!!!!!!

    I chose Howard because I didn't want to continue to be around racist white people. Not that I think that all white people are racist, but I was sick of dealing with so many in Arkansas. No, I did not have school support. When I moved to Little Rock, although I was at the top of my class from my previous high school, and already in AP courses, the counselor looked at me (not my transcripts) and tried to put me in remedial courses. You can guess how that went over with my dad!

    Then, I had to deal with always being the "only" black child in my advanced courses. Sickening to hear whites tell me how they couldn't understand why we had to read a book by a black author for Black History Month. Then, I went to governor's school (for the "brightest" students within a state - which it's really not because their were plenty of bright students who were pigeon-holed long before they had the opportunity to excel) and had a white student ask me if black people had tails (he really thought this so I wasn't mad at him).

    So, NetG, I didn't feel I had a choice. My only option, in my opinion, was to go to a school that would nurture my talents and intellectual capability, and respect my heritage and culture. That's my idea of liberal arts! Anyway, I understand what you were trying to say, I think, but I do sometimes feel from reading your posts that the way you say things can be offensive. I'm really big into intentions, so I have always just let it go. I think that you are an intelligent person from your posts, and you do seem to have a wide breadth of knowledge, which is an excellent thing!

    One of my uncle's did not attend college. He was the first-born. He went to the military immediately after high school, then sent money to the kids that came after him to help support them through school. All of the other kids did the same thing for their younger siblings. What a blessing! My dad was the first one to go an ivy league school, then five of the six after him went as well. It was all about them seeing that there was an opportunity by my dad leading the way, like NetG said. However, they were not encouraged by the schools either. They still experienced segregation!

    BTW, one of the best things about me being in Hawaii this year is it has forced me out of my comfort zone of all blacks. I have developed some really wonderful, supportive relationships with people of different races, but the ones I will remember the most are the ones forged with whites. I never thought I would have "white friends." (You know how they do caricatures of white people saying they have "a black friend"? That's how I feel (smile)!) I'm lucky to see a black person once a month!
    People rise to the standard expected of them. GC
  • NetGNetG Registered Users Posts: 8,116
    dia99 wrote:
    Then, I had to deal with always being the "only" black child in my advanced courses. Sickening to hear whites tell me how they couldn't understand why we had to read a book by a black author for Black History Month. Then, I went to governor's school (for the "brightest" students within a state - which it's really not because their were plenty of bright students who were pigeon-holed long before they had the opportunity to excel) and had a white student ask me if black people had tails (he really thought this so I wasn't mad at him).

    So, NetG, I didn't feel I had a choice. My only option, in my opinion, was to go to a school that would nurture my talents and intellectual capability, and respect my heritage and culture. That's my idea of liberal arts! Anyway, I understand what you were trying to say, I think, but I do sometimes feel from reading your posts that the way you say things can be offensive. I'm really big into intentions, so I have always just let it go. I think that you are an intelligent person from your posts, and you do seem to have a wide breadth of knowledge, which is an excellent thing!

    That is sickening. (The not understanding the point of Black History Month. Happy BHM, by the way!)

    I'm sorry you didn't feel you had a choice in that respect. From what I saw in college, I can *somewhat* understand what you feel. I obviously haven't lived the same situation as you, and can never truly know. I just saw things like the prof who told one of my friends "you write like a black man" as an insult, then claimed she wasn't racist because "she adopted black babies." He worked really hard to try to convince the school she should go to a sensitivity class to understand why what she said was offensive, and they wouldn't send her. I heard so many stories like that, and it really frustrated me. I'm from a very white area, and I was the oddball as a Jew growing up-there would be one or two in my grade, and everyone else was some form of Christian. We were always told "everyone's equal" and didn't get to see the ugliness that's out there, or that lots of parents probably would have behaved abominably if given the chance. In that respect, I'm glad I went to my school to see examples of it, and try to learn. I'm sorry if things I say sound offensive, though. If I say something and word it so I sound like I'm being offensive, please do point it out.

    Your explanation of why you chose Howard sounds a lot like one of my friends who went to a different HBC. He'd been planning on going to Ole' Miss (I think), and felt extremely uncomfortable and as if he wouldn't have had the safe/nurturing/encouraging type of environment. I've also known females who've gone to all-female colleges for similar types of reasons. It's something that the typical white male doesn't get, and why they don't understand things like companies having a Black Employees Network/Womens' Network/etc. But having the support/nurturing is VERY important. I don't think the people running a lot of the supposedly top colleges get that. I think business are just starting to, but many still don't.
    The pews never miss a sermon but that doesn't get them one step closer to Heaven.
    -Speckla

    But at least the pews never attend yoga!
  • FreeCurlsFreeCurls Registered Users Posts: 4,408
    nevermind
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  • mousemouse Registered Users Posts: 39
    NetG wrote:
    mouse wrote:
    Some of the smartest, best engineers ever are named Howard.
    I agree.

    Ha!

    Hughes, for example?
    No. Me, for example.
    Descartes walks into a bar. The bartender says, "Can I pour you a beer?" Descartes says, "I think not," and disappears.
  • NetGNetG Registered Users Posts: 8,116
    mouse wrote:
    No. Me, for example.

    Ah, it all makes sense now.


    Are you a good engineer?
    The pews never miss a sermon but that doesn't get them one step closer to Heaven.
    -Speckla

    But at least the pews never attend yoga!
  • lockigelockige Registered Users Posts: 5
    Well, mouse is no ivy league educated engineer, but he manages to muddle through somehow.
    Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.
  • NetGNetG Registered Users Posts: 8,116
    lockige wrote:
    Well, mouse is no ivy league educated engineer, but he manages to muddle through somehow.

    The Ivies aren't the best places to get an engineering degree, honestly. :lol:
    The pews never miss a sermon but that doesn't get them one step closer to Heaven.
    -Speckla

    But at least the pews never attend yoga!
  • geekygeeky Registered Users Posts: 4,995
    I went to one of the Seven Sisters.

    My opinion is that while you can get a great undergrad education at an Ivy, you can get an education that is just as good or better at lots of other schools. The main benefits of attending an Ivy are having their name on your diploma, which gives you a leg up in some industries.
    To Trenell, MizKerri and geeky:
    I pray none of you ever has to live in a communist state.

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  • curlyarcacurlyarca Registered Users Posts: 8,449 Curl Connoisseur
    i went to an hbc/u. college is really what you make of it. i'm glad i went to an hbcu, it really helped broaden my perspective of things.

    guano:

    however, i went to an hbc/u in mississippi. which is a whole 'nother animal. :shock: i invite anyone to come to lorman mississipi and then go to oxford mississippi and notice the differences, same for southern university and lsu here in baton rouge. i had a class that was taught by tulane grads and lsu undergrads last year (review course).......most of them were so snotty. this hbc/u is waaaaaaaaay out "in the country" so they gave us hell over that. that whole experience made me kinda recoil whenever i encounter tulane grads. :roll: the lsuers really had nothing to be snotty about. first of all they were undergrads, and second of all it's a state school, too, and finally baton rouge is not metropolitan. :roll: :roll: but i guess if you're from jonesville, louisiana it may seem that way..... :twisted:

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  • cmb4314cmb4314 Registered Users Posts: 984 Curl Neophyte
    NetG wrote:
    lockige wrote:
    Well, mouse is no ivy league educated engineer, but he manages to muddle through somehow.

    The Ivies aren't the best places to get an engineering degree, honestly. :lol:

    I'm in Cornell engineering, which is actually a highly ranked program. From what I can gather, it is a much larger program than any of the other Ivies. Then again, I think that everything at Cornell is bigger than the other Ivies, so maybe that's not the best argument in the world :wink:

    I actually picked Cornell for it's engineering school, not because it was an Ivy. If I had to pick again, knowing what I do now, I'm not sure I would have picked such an insanely intense program again. I'm pretty sure I could have gone to one of the other schools on my list, gotten much better grades, and ended up learning just as much.

    Though, for all the trouble, I think the school name has helped immensely in getting me into grad school. So I have no complaints :D
  • mad scientistmad scientist Registered Users Posts: 3,530 Curl Neophyte
    I went to Cornell as well, but for grad school.

    Canadian socialist that I am, I didn't even know that it was an Ivy League school until after I applied.

    The reason I applied was that it was ranked the 3rd best chem dept in the country (after Harvard and Berkeley - and tied with MIT). AND it was close to my boyfriend (now hubby) who was going to school in Toronto.

    So, to answer the original question, I knew nothing about sports there, and I still don't.
  • NetGNetG Registered Users Posts: 8,116
    I'm in Cornell engineering, which is actually a highly ranked program. From what I can gather, it is a much larger program than any of the other Ivies. Then again, I think that everything at Cornell is bigger than the other Ivies, so maybe that's not the best argument in the world :wink:

    I actually picked Cornell for it's engineering school, not because it was an Ivy. If I had to pick again, knowing what I do now, I'm not sure I would have picked such an insanely intense program again. I'm pretty sure I could have gone to one of the other schools on my list, gotten much better grades, and ended up learning just as much.

    Though, for all the trouble, I think the school name has helped immensely in getting me into grad school. So I have no complaints :D

    I've kind of always had the impression that Cornell's the Ivy which most deserves its reputation. I didn't want to go to a large school, so I didn't even really think about going there.

    Granted I live somewhere that most people don't know what the Ivy League is, but it seems like regardless of rankings, there are a lot of non-Ivy schools which are more respected in the engineering world. Of course, HR knows the Ivies, and to them it's impressive. But when it comes down to it, once you start working it doesn't tend to matter where you went, just what you know/can do. Then, it's a matter of whether your school was good for your career, not was your school good overall. (Myexample: The Dartmouth engineering program isn't that well-regarded, but it's tiny and doesn't have much in the way of specialization. It is, however, the first place some companies look because it takes a somewhat liberal arts approach to engineering, and in certain jobs it seems to give the perfect education for the job. I lucked out in finding one of those places where my degree pretty much exactly matched up with what I'd need to know to be able to contribute immediately at work.)

    It's very cool that Cornell helped you get into grad school, though!
    The pews never miss a sermon but that doesn't get them one step closer to Heaven.
    -Speckla

    But at least the pews never attend yoga!
  • SpunkyCurlsSpunkyCurls Registered Users Posts: 1,523
    mouse wrote:
    Some of the smartest, best engineers ever are named Howard.
    I agree.

    *snort* :lol:
    <insert signature line here>

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