Myths (a sensitive subject)

iaraiara Posts: 1,199Registered Users
I was having this conversation with some friends. I believe all religion/myths/creation stories are ways our ancient ancestors used to explain the unknown and instill moral values into people. Over the years some became more accepted because of things such as faith and/or political agendas.

I think religion that instills moral and faith into people, who without it may not behave the same, is beautiful. However, I still consider it a highly organized, widely accepted myth.

Since many of the religions have things in common, I wonder if some of the stories were “imprinted” in the DNA of our ancestors when they first migrated outside of Africa. Then they evolved to explain the environment in which they lived.

So my friends, who are either atheists or agnostic (I was raised agnostic, I suppose, by agnostic parents who leaned more to the atheist side) asked if I thought Jesus was real. When I was younger, I thought he could have been real human. However, after reading a bit more on the subject as an adult and seeing that that there are no real references to any man named Jesus, I think he was not a real man but a myth or stories of many people/myths attributed to one.

Does anyone who does not belong to the big three (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) believe Jesus was a real historic person? Why or why not (if you choose to explain)?

And if you do belong to any religion (the big three or others) if while you were alive, you found out your religion was false would you stop believing or would you say it is about the message of your faith.

I know this is a sensitive subject but I wanted to get some varied opinions.
You cannot invite someone to your house in the Hamptons and when she arrives, not let her stay. Tacky. Very Tacky. ~ East Village hipster.

People in Ward Three disdain three things: cleavage, hunting and dumb people who are richer than they are. ~ David Brooks

Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it. ~Armaments 2:9-21
«1

Comments

  • sarasarasarasara Posts: 1,561Registered Users
    And if you do belong to any religion (the big three or others) if while you were alive, you found out your religion was false would you stop believing or would you say it is about the message of your faith.

    If I believed the proof that my religion is false, I would still have some things from it stuck to me, and still practice some things because I would be used to them or they would just be common sense. For example, my religion says that you should not sigh or say a particular word (don't know how to say that in English) if they ask you something, to do something for them...etc. I only try to stop myself from sighing and making a big deal of something they ask of me because of religion. However, I would still do what they asked me (if they tell me to get them water, I would, even if I was 50 years old...etc) because it's also a cultural thing (you have to do what your elders ask of you-its common that someone only 20 years older than you would ask you to do something and it's impolite if you refuse) that I have been used to doing-but, I might sigh and complain.


    ETA: I am only talking about myself here, not how I think any other person from my religion/other religions/no religion would act.
  • geekygeeky Posts: 4,995Registered Users
    iara wrote:
    And if you do belong to any religion (the big three or others) if while you were alive, you found out your religion was false would you stop believing or would you say it is about the message of your faith.

    As far as my personal faith is concerned, I am agnostic with some pagan leanings. However I choose to follow the Jewish tradition in many ways, not because I believe the scripture literally, but because I see value in the traditions and in the moral lessons, and because I feel it is important to carry on the cultural traditions of my ancestors. I was never an orhtodox believer so I never had an "Aha! This is not true" moment, though.
    To Trenell, MizKerri and geeky:
    I pray none of you ever has to live in a communist state.

    Geeky is my hero. She's the true badass. The badass who doesn't even need to be a badass. There aren't enough O's in cool to describe her.
  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,898Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    I was atheist at one point and still believed Jesus was a real person (I didn't think there was any doubt about that part at all). I just didn't believe he was the son of God.

  • iris427iris427 Posts: 6,002Registered Users
    geeky wrote:
    iara wrote:
    And if you do belong to any religion (the big three or others) if while you were alive, you found out your religion was false would you stop believing or would you say it is about the message of your faith.

    As far as my personal faith is concerned, I am agnostic with some pagan leanings. However I choose to follow the Jewish tradition in many ways, not because I believe the scripture literally, but because I see value in the traditions and in the moral lessons, and because I feel it is important to carry on the cultural traditions of my ancestors. I was never an orhtodox believer so I never had an "Aha! This is not true" moment, though.

    Good post Geeky, I feel this way too about Judaism.

    Iara, what do you mean about stories imprinted in our DNA? I'm not sure I follow.
    3027585431_55b6195e50_s.jpg3028374752_0df4d81a1b_s.jpg3028422696_8dcef38baa_s.jpg
    TickerTicker.aspx?&TT=bdy&TT1=bdy&CL=29&CT=&CG=F&O=m_nestbirds&T=t_b14&D=20080913&M1=&D1=2009&T2=&T1=Baby+Iris&CC=0&CO=&step=5&radio=A
  • geekygeeky Posts: 4,995Registered Users
    iara wrote:
    Since many of the religions have things in common, I wonder if some of the stories were “imprinted” in the DNA of our ancestors when they first migrated outside of Africa. Then they evolved to explain the environment in which they lived.

    I don't know about "imprinted" in DNA. I think that the concerns of all early people were similar, so the big questions were all similar and so were the answers people came up with.
    To Trenell, MizKerri and geeky:
    I pray none of you ever has to live in a communist state.

    Geeky is my hero. She's the true badass. The badass who doesn't even need to be a badass. There aren't enough O's in cool to describe her.
  • iris427iris427 Posts: 6,002Registered Users
    geeky wrote:
    iara wrote:
    Since many of the religions have things in common, I wonder if some of the stories were “imprinted” in the DNA of our ancestors when they first migrated outside of Africa. Then they evolved to explain the environment in which they lived.

    I don't know about "imprinted" in DNA. I think that the concerns of all early people were similar, so the big questions were all similar and so were the answers people came up with.

    Also, despite our many differences in culture, religion, etc, there are certain things that are universal in the human experience and always have been, so myths and religions from around the world reflect this through common themes.
    3027585431_55b6195e50_s.jpg3028374752_0df4d81a1b_s.jpg3028422696_8dcef38baa_s.jpg
    TickerTicker.aspx?&TT=bdy&TT1=bdy&CL=29&CT=&CG=F&O=m_nestbirds&T=t_b14&D=20080913&M1=&D1=2009&T2=&T1=Baby+Iris&CC=0&CO=&step=5&radio=A
  • NetGNetG Posts: 8,116Registered Users
    I was atheist at one point and still believed Jesus was a real person (I didn't think there was any doubt about that part at all). I just didn't believe he was the son of G-d.


    I'm a Jew and don't think there's doubt about if Jesus was a real person, either. I just don't think he was a prophet or the son of G-d.


    (Sorry for the slight edit in your post, Spider, that's part of my religion, since I'm posting this one)

    ETA: Christianity, Judaism and Islam aren't the "big three." Judaism is actually well down the list, and Hindu is third. Buddhism is above Judaism in the list of top religions, too. Beyond that, the different sources I've looked at have different orders.
    The pews never miss a sermon but that doesn't get them one step closer to Heaven.
    -Speckla

    But at least the pews never attend yoga!
  • iaraiara Posts: 1,199Registered Users
    iris427 wrote:
    Iara, what do you mean about stories imprinted in our DNA? I'm not sure I follow.

    I mean, since there are many things in common across cultures such as the great flood and other experiences. I wonder if one happened to the first wave of humans and the story just passed throughout history. Not that there is something genetic, hence imprint in quotes. Sorry if that was not clear. I am thinking in one language and writing in another.

    I agree with the culture part people are referring to. Culturally our family participated in religious activities but we are still agnostic.

    Spiderlashes, when you were an atheist did you believe Jesus did those things attributed to him in the Bible or something else (if you want to answer)?
    You cannot invite someone to your house in the Hamptons and when she arrives, not let her stay. Tacky. Very Tacky. ~ East Village hipster.

    People in Ward Three disdain three things: cleavage, hunting and dumb people who are richer than they are. ~ David Brooks

    Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it. ~Armaments 2:9-21
  • KaiaKaia Posts: 8,815Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    geeky wrote:
    iara wrote:
    Since many of the religions have things in common, I wonder if some of the stories were “imprinted” in the DNA of our ancestors when they first migrated outside of Africa. Then they evolved to explain the environment in which they lived.

    I don't know about "imprinted" in DNA. I think that the concerns of all early people were similar, so the big questions were all similar and so were the answers people came up with.

    Agreed. I think religion was "invented" to answer questions we didn't/don't have answers to. For example, I'm sure death was always a mysterious and maybe scary thing for people, so religion answers the questions of what happens after. The 3 major religions we have now have a lot in common because they are directly related. If you look at old mythologies, many are very different from religion as we know it now, but they do tend to have answers to some of the same basic questions.

    As far as Jesus is concerned, I didn't realize it was debated whether he was a real person or not. I always assumed there was a real person by that name (more or less) around the time they claim he lived. Whether he was a nice person trying to help people or a very convincing crook, I couldn't say without researching further into it.
    *Poster formerly known as Bailey422*

    Here's all you have to know about men and women: women are crazy, men are stupid. And the main reason women are crazy is that men are stupid. ~ George Carlin
  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,898Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    NetG wrote:
    I was atheist at one point and still believed Jesus was a real person (I didn't think there was any doubt about that part at all). I just didn't believe he was the son of G-d.


    I'm a Jew and don't think there's doubt about if Jesus was a real person, either. I just don't think he was a prophet or the son of G-d.


    (Sorry for the slight edit in your post, Spider, that's part of my religion, since I'm posting this one)

    ETA: Christianity, Judaism and Islam aren't the "big three." Judaism is actually well down the list, and Hindu is third. Buddhism is above Judaism in the list of top religions, too. Beyond that, the different sources I've looked at have different orders.

    gotcha :wink:

  • iaraiara Posts: 1,199Registered Users
    Bailey422 wrote:
    As far as Jesus is concerned, I didn't realize it was debated whether he was a real person or not.
    There is debate. There are/were even court cases about him being a factuall person. I have not followed them though.
    You cannot invite someone to your house in the Hamptons and when she arrives, not let her stay. Tacky. Very Tacky. ~ East Village hipster.

    People in Ward Three disdain three things: cleavage, hunting and dumb people who are richer than they are. ~ David Brooks

    Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it. ~Armaments 2:9-21
  • iaraiara Posts: 1,199Registered Users
    NetG wrote:
    ETA: Christianity, Judaism and Islam aren't the "big three." Judaism is actually well down the list, and Hindu is third. Buddhism is above Judaism in the list of top religions, too. Beyond that, the different sources I've looked at have different orders.
    I meant the big Middle Eastern three. Not the largest religions in the world. Sorry if that was not clear.
    You cannot invite someone to your house in the Hamptons and when she arrives, not let her stay. Tacky. Very Tacky. ~ East Village hipster.

    People in Ward Three disdain three things: cleavage, hunting and dumb people who are richer than they are. ~ David Brooks

    Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it. ~Armaments 2:9-21
  • NetGNetG Posts: 8,116Registered Users
    iara wrote:
    NetG wrote:
    ETA: Christianity, Judaism and Islam aren't the "big three." Judaism is actually well down the list, and Hindu is third. Buddhism is above Judaism in the list of top religions, too. Beyond that, the different sources I've looked at have different orders.
    I meant the big Middle Eastern three. Not the largest religions in the world. Sorry if that was not clear.


    Simply speaking of Judaism, Islam and Christianity - they have the same roots, way back when.


    When I've been at that part of Torah study, it's stressed that Isaac and Ishmael are brothers and our similarities have been expressed more than our differences. Since Islam and Judaism come from the same source, you expect similarities. Then Christianity stemmed from Judaism and developed into its own religion, but has the base/history of Judaism behind it, too. So for those three, I think many similarities are natural.

    Add to that different world weather changes, etc., which have happened, and everything ends up having similarities.
    The pews never miss a sermon but that doesn't get them one step closer to Heaven.
    -Speckla

    But at least the pews never attend yoga!
  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,898Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    About the imprinted on DNA -- like Jung's "collective unconscious" theory? That on some level we can all recognize and understand the mythical archetypes and systems? I think it's an interesting theory but no, I don't believe it.

    When I was little I would have considered the old, wrinkled, hobbling man just a person...and then, a predator. And the "tree of life" would have been something to try to shake apples off of. And if I would have had to describe a messianic figure, it would have been a girl. LOL No, I think those, too, are taught or learned by convention.

    Actually, no I wouldn't say that the stories are really all that similar across religions (and such). I think some of the values and moral lessons are, but not the structure of the religions. Greek mythology is not similar to Christianity which is not similar to Buddhism, etc. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" does exist in all major religious systems, though (with the exception of Native American spirtuality which never explicitly states that but might very well practice it).

  • iris427iris427 Posts: 6,002Registered Users
    iara wrote:
    iris427 wrote:
    Iara, what do you mean about stories imprinted in our DNA? I'm not sure I follow.

    I mean, since there are many things in common across cultures such as the great flood and other experiences. I wonder if one happened to the first wave of humans and the story just passed throughout history. Not that there is something genetic, hence imprint in quotes. Sorry if that was not clear. I am thinking in one language and writing in another.

    I agree with the culture part people are referring to. Culturally our family participated in religious activities but we are still agnostic.

    Spiderlashes, when you were an atheist did you believe Jesus did those things attributed to him in the Bible or something else (if you want to answer)?

    I think that there are just common things in the human experience, especially long ago when people had less technology and ability to control nature and the world around them.

    I think the many flood stories can easily be explained by the fact that human populations tend to gather near water for obvious reasons (water is necessary for life; water was key for trade in the ancient world; bodies of water provided food and silt that fertilized the land). Before we had the flood technologies we have now, flooding was a common experience in human societies. Most rivers have a natural flood cycle. Even today, with all our technology, it is still something you see in the news (there has been serious flooding in the UK this month).

    Commonalities in the environment across the world are also reflected in mythology--the sun, moon, wind, water, predatory animals, disease, etc.

    And there are some universal human experiences--questioning where we came from and why we are here, facing our own mortality and wondering about what happens after death. Birth, war, love, sex, illness, grief, joy.

    These are all common in myths because they are common in the human experience throughout time, not just for the earliest people.
    3027585431_55b6195e50_s.jpg3028374752_0df4d81a1b_s.jpg3028422696_8dcef38baa_s.jpg
    TickerTicker.aspx?&TT=bdy&TT1=bdy&CL=29&CT=&CG=F&O=m_nestbirds&T=t_b14&D=20080913&M1=&D1=2009&T2=&T1=Baby+Iris&CC=0&CO=&step=5&radio=A
  • iaraiara Posts: 1,199Registered Users
    About the imprinted on DNA -- like Jung's "collective unconscious" theory? That on some level we can all recognize and understand the mythical archetypes and systems? I think it's an interesting theory but no, I don't believe it.
    No. I explained what I meant above.
    Actually, no I wouldn't say that the stories are really all that similar across religions (and such). I think some of the values and moral lessons are, but not the structure of the religions. Greek mythology is not similar to Christianity which is not similar to Buddhism, etc. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" does exist in all major religious systems, though (with the exception of Native American spirtuality which never explicitly states that but might very well practice it).
    You really think there are no similarities between Greek mythology and Judaism or Christianity? I see similarities between all the religions in that area. By similarities I mean stories and figures in common not that they are the exactly the same or have the same structure, names, or even core beliefs. (ETA: you do not have to answer this it was just me thinking out loud and really has nothing to do with my original first questions. Sorry to go on a tangent!)

    Also, this got lost in the shuffle but:
    Spiderlashes, when you were an atheist did you believe Jesus did those things attributed to him in the Bible or something else (if you want to answer)?

    I have to go for a while, but I am interested in everyone's responses to the last two questions of my first post in the thread. All the other things were a stream of consciousness opinion and nothing I was trying to state as fact.
    You cannot invite someone to your house in the Hamptons and when she arrives, not let her stay. Tacky. Very Tacky. ~ East Village hipster.

    People in Ward Three disdain three things: cleavage, hunting and dumb people who are richer than they are. ~ David Brooks

    Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it. ~Armaments 2:9-21
  • PoPo Posts: 2,607Registered Users
    Aren't the creation stories (for example, the flood story) similar in a lot of religions and cultures?

    Is that sort of what you're talking about, iara?
    3c/4a
  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,898Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    iara wrote:

    Also, this got lost in the shuffle but:
    Spiderlashes, when you were an atheist did you believe Jesus did those things attributed to him in the Bible or something else (if you want to answer)?

    No, I didn't believe those things. I hadn't really heard of most of it because I didn't go to church or anything and had never read the Bible (just Catholic school for 1st grade). But the few stories I did hear about (water into wine, the fish and the loaves, etc.) seemed very untrue to me. I just attributed it to some sort of magic trick or, more likely, just some BS story that someone had made up for some reason.

    About your last question --- what would I do if I found out my religion (Christianity) was false? I don't think I'd believe it. People are always showing me some "proof" that it's false. My faith is too strong.

  • iaraiara Posts: 1,199Registered Users
    Po wrote:
    Aren't the creation stories (for example, the flood story) similar in a lot of religions and cultures?

    Is that sort of what you're talking about, iara?

    Yes.

    But that was really a tangent/background information of my thinking. I only wanted to find out people's opinions on the last two questions of my first post. But, I guess everything you post could be discussed! Not that creation stories and the roots of religion are not interesting to discuss (I discuss that enough IRL) I really wanted to discuss the (myth) of Jesus and what people would do if they believed the proof that their religion was not real because I want the varied opinions on the subject that I think this board could give.

    ETA: Thanks, Spiderlashes.
    You cannot invite someone to your house in the Hamptons and when she arrives, not let her stay. Tacky. Very Tacky. ~ East Village hipster.

    People in Ward Three disdain three things: cleavage, hunting and dumb people who are richer than they are. ~ David Brooks

    Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it. ~Armaments 2:9-21
  • JosephineJosephine Posts: 14,408Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Bailey422 wrote:
    As far as Jesus is concerned, I didn't realize it was debated whether he was a real person or not. I always assumed there was a real person by that name (more or less) around the time they claim he lived. Whether he was a nice person trying to help people or a very convincing crook, I couldn't say without researching further into it.

    Yea, I also didnt know his existance was in question. It's just like any other historical fact or record, you can choose to believe it or not.
  • JosephineJosephine Posts: 14,408Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    iara wrote:
    And if you do belong to any religion (the big three or others) if while you were alive, you found out your religion was false would you stop believing or would you say it is about the message of your faith.

    I don't think anyone can prove any religion is false or true..that's kinda the whole point of religion. It's faith.

    As far as message of faith (if I understand correctly - customs, rules, etc) I think that's incorporated in culture and can grow on you..so even if you don't have the faith, you can still follow the message(it becomes a part of the culture). For me, if I didn't have the faith, I wouldn't necessarily follow the message if it didn't make sense to me even if it's ingrained in the culture.
  • iaraiara Posts: 1,199Registered Users
    Josephine wrote:
    Yea, I also didnt know his existance was in question. It's just like any other historical fact or record, you can choose to believe it or not.
    I did not stop believing because I do not believe in historical fact. I took a comparative religion class as a graduate student and the professor (practicing Jewish) had a section on Jesus. One of the interesting parts was the debate of Jesus being a real man (before something I used to take as historical fact because I never thought about it before). The cause of the debate was the fact that no evidence (at least we have at present) refers to Jesus outside of the Bible, which was written after his death. Some references to him but again, way after the time his death would have been. It was not as if there were not other chronicles around. They were living under Roman control and the Romans took good records. Why was he not in their records? So either records contemporary to his time was lost (highly likely), Jesus was a part of a moral story and not a real person (also likely), Jesus the real man was only important to those who knew him, or something else (likely, too).

    For those who believe he was a real person, do you have any sources contemporary to when Jesus would have lived? I would love to read them (and no I am not being facetious).

    So, it looks like I am in a minority when it comes to questioning Jesus as real!
    You cannot invite someone to your house in the Hamptons and when she arrives, not let her stay. Tacky. Very Tacky. ~ East Village hipster.

    People in Ward Three disdain three things: cleavage, hunting and dumb people who are richer than they are. ~ David Brooks

    Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it. ~Armaments 2:9-21
  • KaiaKaia Posts: 8,815Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    iara wrote:
    They were living under Roman control and the Romans took good records. Why was he not in their records? So either records contemporary to his time was lost (highly likely), Jesus was a part of a moral story and not a real person (also likely), Jesus the real man was only important to those who knew him, or something else (likely, too).

    Well, since the Romans tried to stop the spread of Christianity at first, they may have also destroyed any records of him on purpose. I'm not saying that's what happened, just playing devil's advocate.
    iara wrote:
    Bailey422 wrote:
    As far as Jesus is concerned, I didn't realize it was debated whether he was a real person or not.

    There is debate. There are/were even court cases about him being a factuall person. I have not followed them though.

    I've never heard of any court cases. Were they not publicized much? I guess to me it really doesn't matter much if there was a real Jesus or not. If he was real, then I believe he was a regular 'ole Joe who happened to get famous. If he wasn't, then I believe he was a made-up regular Joe who happened to get famous. ;) Proving that he was real or not would not change my beliefs any, so I never felt compelled to research it. It is interesting to me that there's a debate, but it seems impossible to prove it one way or the other without a time-machine or something. Even if records were found, written records are still written by people (who are subjective) and records have this funny way of getting lost or forged and planted when it's most convenient.
    *Poster formerly known as Bailey422*

    Here's all you have to know about men and women: women are crazy, men are stupid. And the main reason women are crazy is that men are stupid. ~ George Carlin
  • iris427iris427 Posts: 6,002Registered Users
    Bailey422 wrote:
    iara wrote:
    They were living under Roman control and the Romans took good records. Why was he not in their records? So either records contemporary to his time was lost (highly likely), Jesus was a part of a moral story and not a real person (also likely), Jesus the real man was only important to those who knew him, or something else (likely, too).

    Well, since the Romans tried to stop the spread of Christianity at first, they may have also destroyed any records of him on purpose. I'm not saying that's what happened, just playing devil's advocate.
    iara wrote:
    Bailey422 wrote:
    As far as Jesus is concerned, I didn't realize it was debated whether he was a real person or not.

    There is debate. There are/were even court cases about him being a factuall person. I have not followed them though.

    I've never heard of any court cases. Were they not publicized much? I guess to me it really doesn't matter much if there was a real Jesus or not. If he was real, then I believe he was a regular 'ole Joe who happened to get famous. If he wasn't, then I believe he was a made-up regular Joe who happened to get famous. ;) Proving that he was real or not would not change my beliefs any, so I never felt compelled to research it. It is interesting to me that there's a debate, but it seems impossible to prove it one way or the other without a time-machine or something. Even if records were found, written records are still written by people (who are subjective) and records have this funny way of getting lost or forged and planted when it's most convenient.

    Bailey, I agree with what you're saying about the records--that makes sense to me. Modern authoritarian regimes have done the same thing--manipulating their records in order to manipulate their society and information, or to say that people they viewed as enemies never existed at all.
    3027585431_55b6195e50_s.jpg3028374752_0df4d81a1b_s.jpg3028422696_8dcef38baa_s.jpg
    TickerTicker.aspx?&TT=bdy&TT1=bdy&CL=29&CT=&CG=F&O=m_nestbirds&T=t_b14&D=20080913&M1=&D1=2009&T2=&T1=Baby+Iris&CC=0&CO=&step=5&radio=A
  • JosephineJosephine Posts: 14,408Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    iara wrote:
    I did not stop believing because I do not believe in historical fact. I took a comparative religion class as a graduate student and the professor (practicing Jewish) had a section on Jesus. One of the interesting parts was the debate of Jesus being a real man (before something I used to take as historical fact because I never thought about it before). The cause of the debate was the fact that no evidence (at least we have at present) refers to Jesus outside of the Bible, which was written after his death. Some references to him but again, way after the time his death would have been. It was not as if there were not other chronicles around. They were living under Roman control and the Romans took good records. Why was he not in their records? So either records contemporary to his time was lost (highly likely), Jesus was a part of a moral story and not a real person (also likely), Jesus the real man was only important to those who knew him, or something else (likely, too).

    Ah, okay. I thought it was in the history books.
  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,898Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    Josephine wrote:
    iara wrote:
    I did not stop believing because I do not believe in historical fact. I took a comparative religion class as a graduate student and the professor (practicing Jewish) had a section on Jesus. One of the interesting parts was the debate of Jesus being a real man (before something I used to take as historical fact because I never thought about it before). The cause of the debate was the fact that no evidence (at least we have at present) refers to Jesus outside of the Bible, which was written after his death. Some references to him but again, way after the time his death would have been. It was not as if there were not other chronicles around. They were living under Roman control and the Romans took good records. Why was he not in their records? So either records contemporary to his time was lost (highly likely), Jesus was a part of a moral story and not a real person (also likely), Jesus the real man was only important to those who knew him, or something else (likely, too).

    Ah, okay. I thought it was in the history books.

    It is in some.

  • mad scientistmad scientist Posts: 3,530Registered Users
    I haven't had time to read through the whole thread carefully (there's a lot in here!) but let me give you a quick answer and I'll come back....

    I'm Hindu. Not overly religious but much like Geeky described, I respect and practice my religion from a cultural/heritage viewpoint not so much from a spiritual one.

    Hindus believe in avatars, which are human incarnations of God who come to earth in our time of need. This is the central reason why Hinduism is non-proselytizing (sp?). We believe that other religions are all valid, because Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha etc... are all avatars that have touched the lives of certain populations in such a way that they choose to follow only that avatars teaching.

    So with your regards to whether as a non-Christian, I believe that Jesus is a real person. I have no reason to not believe it. As far as I am concerned he could be everything that he or his followers claim him to be.... except I don't believe that he is "the only way to God".
  • JuicyTubeJuicyTube Posts: 2,369Registered Users
    I don't categorize myself as anything. I believe in what I get from my six senses.
    3b-3c CG
  • cymprenicympreni Posts: 9,609Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I believe he might have been a real person, I seen shows on the History channel that suggests that he might have, but not seeing their sources for myself, I don't know positively. I don't think it really matters, just the message. His message has brought hope and encourages people to try and do the best for themselves and others. There was never anything wrong with his message just the way people has twisted it for evil deeds.

    There is actually a recall good explanation for so many of the myths being similar. When people converted, they took their stories and traditions with them for many different reasons, sometimes it was a good moral story who's lessons were worth passing on, others didn't want to completely walk away from the past, and others who were forced did it to so they could practice their pagan beliefs in secret more safely, and some of it was just for convenience. Pagan holidays centered around seasons and helped them keep track of time, harvest time, planting season (Easter), and Christmas is around the shortest day of the year, and so on that were vital for them to know for their survival. Why bother turning everyone's world upside down trying to teach them a completely different way of life during a time when basic survival was tough.
  • PoPo Posts: 2,607Registered Users
    I haven't had time to read through the whole thread carefully (there's a lot in here!) but let me give you a quick answer and I'll come back....

    I'm Hindu. Not overly religious but much like Geeky described, I respect and practice my religion from a cultural/heritage viewpoint not so much from a spiritual one.

    Hindus believe in avatars, which are human incarnations of God who come to earth in our time of need. This is the central reason why Hinduism is non-proselytizing (sp?). We believe that other religions are all valid, because Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha etc... are all avatars that have touched the lives of certain populations in such a way that they choose to follow only that avatars teaching.

    So with your regards to whether as a non-Christian, I believe that Jesus is a real person. I have no reason to not believe it. As far as I am concerned he could be everything that he or his followers claim him to be.... except I don't believe that he is "the only way to God".

    I like that.
    3c/4a

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file