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Wash. appeal scourt says pit bull a deadly weapon

mandyvmandyv Posts: 2,437Registered Users
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TACOMA — A state appeals court in Tacoma says a pit bull dog is a deadly weapon.

In a ruling this week, the court upheld the assault conviction for a Vancouver man, Robbie Hoeldt, whose dog attacked a police officer.

The court says a dog is a deadly weapon because it can be used to cause death or substantial bodily harm.

A Vancouver police detective shot and killed the dog when it attacked him as he was trying to arrest Hoeldt at his home.

Copyright © 2007 The Seattle Times Company

So my loaded-gun metaphor works. And I never tire of this debate!
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Comments

  • geekygeeky Posts: 4,995Registered Users
    The court says a dog is a deadly weapon because it can be used to cause death or substantial bodily harm.

    By that reasoning, a fork, a curling iron and a badly positioned banana peel are all deadly weapons. Let's ban them all.
    To Trenell, MizKerri and geeky:
    I pray none of you ever has to live in a communist state.

    Geeky is my hero. She's the true badass. The badass who doesn't even need to be a badass. There aren't enough O's in cool to describe her.
  • GuardianBGuardianB Posts: 1,818Registered Users
    geeky wrote:
    The court says a dog is a deadly weapon because it can be used to cause death or substantial bodily harm.

    By that reasoning, a fork, a curling iron and a badly positioned banana peel are all deadly weapons. Let's ban them all.

    bow.gif
    ~Two friends, one soul inspired~ anonymous
  • ScarletScarlet Posts: 3,125Registered Users
    Don't forget letter openers, frying pans, and screwdrivers.
    The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is never enough of anything to satisfy all those who want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics - Thomas Sowell
  • internetchickinternetchick Posts: 6,191Registered Users
    I used to live in Tacoma, and while I don't think this law makes sense something needs to be done about the huge amount of irresponsible pit bull owners in the area. I got sick of seeing pits roaming around without anyone watching them.
  • JosephineJosephine Posts: 14,175Registered Users
    geeky wrote:
    The court says a dog is a deadly weapon because it can be used to cause death or substantial bodily harm.

    By that reasoning, a fork, a curling iron and a badly positioned banana peel are all deadly weapons. Let's ban them all.

    I see what you're saying but you can avoid those if you see them and they won't attack you.
  • geekygeeky Posts: 4,995Registered Users
    I used to live in Tacoma, and while I don't think this law makes sense something needs to be done about the huge amount of irresponsible pit bull owners in the area. I got sick of seeing pits roaming around without anyone watching them.

    Irresponsible owners of any pets should be fined, jailed, swarmed by bees, whatever. I am all for that. I am not in favor of breed-specific laws because that unfairly punishes responsible dog owners, and meanwhile the irresponsible ones just move on to the next breed and let them roam the streets and maul people.
    To Trenell, MizKerri and geeky:
    I pray none of you ever has to live in a communist state.

    Geeky is my hero. She's the true badass. The badass who doesn't even need to be a badass. There aren't enough O's in cool to describe her.
  • KaiaKaia Posts: 8,815Registered Users
    geeky wrote:
    The court says a dog is a deadly weapon because it can be used to cause death or substantial bodily harm.

    By that reasoning, a fork, a curling iron and a badly positioned banana peel are all deadly weapons. Let's ban them all.

    ITA! I see red whenever I hear about breed-specific legislation. All the animal cruelty that goes on and then gets blamed on the animal is horrifying.
    *Poster formerly known as Bailey422*

    Here's all you have to know about men and women: women are crazy, men are stupid. And the main reason women are crazy is that men are stupid. ~ George Carlin
  • PeppyPeppy Posts: 3,290Registered Users
    Better ban poodles too. My poodle would tear your arm off if you weren't careful. And my mom's rottie was a big baby.

    Owners are the problem. Not the breed.
  • duckyducky Posts: 927Registered Users
    My sister has a Doberman that is only threatening if you don't like to be licked.

    Her little Boston Terrier, on the other hand, can be quite protective. Breed-specific legislation is ridiculous.
    Location: Napa, CA
  • SpringcurlSpringcurl Posts: 8,002Registered Users
    Peppy wrote:
    Better ban poodles too. My poodle would tear your arm off if you weren't careful. And my mom's rottie was a big baby.

    Owners are the problem. Not the breed.

    exactly.

    So many people get dogs then leave them tied up in the back yard 24/7. ANY frustrated dog is going to attack.
    TWINKLES.gifTWINKLES.gifTWINKLES.gif

    Obamacare is not a blueprint for socialism. You're thinking of the New Testament. ~~ John Fugelsang



  • cymprenicympreni Posts: 9,609Registered Users
    Scarlet wrote:
    Don't forget letter openers, frying pans, and screwdrivers.

    I seen a movie once, where a guy was killed by a corn on the cob.
  • SpringcurlSpringcurl Posts: 8,002Registered Users
    cympreni wrote:
    Scarlet wrote:
    Don't forget letter openers, frying pans, and screwdrivers.

    I seen a movie once, where a guy was killed by a corn on the cob.

    When I was a court stenographer, they charged someone with assault with a deadly weapon and the deadly weapon was "a shod foot."
    TWINKLES.gifTWINKLES.gifTWINKLES.gif

    Obamacare is not a blueprint for socialism. You're thinking of the New Testament. ~~ John Fugelsang



  • cymprenicympreni Posts: 9,609Registered Users
    Peppy wrote:
    Better ban poodles too. My poodle would tear your arm off if you weren't careful. And my mom's rottie was a big baby.

    Owners are the problem. Not the breed.

    One of my friends old boyfriends had a very aggressive chihuahuas, it was a good thing that his teeth weren't big enough to get through jeans or I know a number of people who would had some seriously scratched up anckles.

    I've had alot of doggs over the years the one I miss the most, was my rott/pitt mix, she was the sweetest thing, who would never hurt a fly.
  • rainshowerrainshower Posts: 4,420Registered Users
    and if you all remember, so is a wallet . . .
    "Dogs stink too, but I like dog stink." ~ rileyb
  • GretchenGretchen Administrator Posts: 8,424Administrators, Moderators Administrator
    geeky wrote:

    By that reasoning, a fork, a curling iron and a badly positioned banana peel are all deadly weapons. Let's ban them all.

    Brilliant!

    Gretchen
    NaturallyCurly.com co-founder
    3A

    You are beautiful!
  • Aries_jbAries_jb Posts: 1,556Registered Users
    Springcurl wrote:
    Peppy wrote:
    Better ban poodles too. My poodle would tear your arm off if you weren't careful. And my mom's rottie was a big baby.

    Owners are the problem. Not the breed.

    exactly.

    So many people get dogs then leave them tied up in the back yard 24/7. ANY frustrated dog is going to attack.

    I agree with both you. Hearing things like this make me so sad. I can't tell you how many people jump out of the way and cross the street when they see my dog. He's just a lovable big baby! I'm careful with him and all, but seeing reactions like that from others makes me feel bad for him. The worst thing he has ever done was jump up on people. Meanwhile, people are running up to my Chihuahua with their kids, ready to pet and play with her, and it's a problem because she's so vicious! I'm more scared to go out with her because she will not hesitate to bite. Pitbulls are really given such a bad rep because their power is exploited by people so often that people think that those types of dogs are BORN that way.
    www.myspace.com/littlemonkey0403
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  • velvet pawsvelvet paws Posts: 1,250Registered Users
    This makes me so upset. I have a pit bull and she's the biggest mush imaginable. All she wants to do is give kisses and snuggle and she never met a stranger she didn't love. Breed specific legislation makes me so angry.
    3A / 2B / 2C wavicelli

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  • cymprenicympreni Posts: 9,609Registered Users
    This makes me so upset. I have a pit bull and she's the biggest mush imaginable. All she wants to do is give kisses and snuggle and she never met a stranger she didn't love. Breed specific legislation makes me so angry.

    Me too, one of my old boyfriends had 2 male pit pulls they were the biggest babies ever. And with my keisha, the rott/pit bull mix, my biggest fear with her is while walking her, we come across kids playing ball, her 2 favorite things in the whole world, and she would probably rip my arm out trying to get to them to play. She was very large for her breed, so that made reactions worse, but she was just a such a baby. For the first year of her life she was keeped in a cage that tramatized her, and made her sad, every time she seen a dog in a fenced in yard she would cry, even if it was a large yard. I actually had to keep her on a chain, because her fenced in area made her sad, which was very large especially for jsut a day cage, bigger then some peoples back yards, and she would escape all the time and wait for me on my front porch, until I got home from work. She never stopped running like a playful puppy either, always throwing her front legs into the air.
  • KaiaKaia Posts: 8,815Registered Users
    This makes me so upset. I have a pit bull and she's the biggest mush imaginable. All she wants to do is give kisses and snuggle and she never met a stranger she didn't love. Breed specific legislation makes me so angry.

    That's our pit mix. My other dogs are a little apprehensive of strangers, but he would go home with anyone. He tries to follow random people out of the dogpark all the time. :lol:
    *Poster formerly known as Bailey422*

    Here's all you have to know about men and women: women are crazy, men are stupid. And the main reason women are crazy is that men are stupid. ~ George Carlin
  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,495Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    In my city, owners of American pit bull terriers have to carry $100,000 of insurance on each dog. But very few actually do (based on a conversation I had w/ a police officer). I wish they'd crack down on that law...a lot of problems would be solved if they did.

  • mandyvmandyv Posts: 2,437Registered Users
    geeky wrote:
    The court says a dog is a deadly weapon because it can be used to cause death or substantial bodily harm.

    By that reasoning, a fork, a curling iron and a badly positioned banana peel are all deadly weapons. Let's ban them all.

    The next time a fork, curling iron or letter opener and screwdriver attacks someone's throat, then you can say that. If they run across the street to do it to someone who poses no threat or to a toddler in its mother's arms, yes, you can say that.
    3c
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  • KaiaKaia Posts: 8,815Registered Users
    In my city, owners of American pit bull terriers have to carry $100,000 of insurance on each dog. But very few actually do (based on a conversation I had w/ a police officer). I wish they'd crack down on that law...a lot of problems would be solved if they did.

    I don't think that's fair. What about rottweiler, doberman, chow, german shepherd owners... do they have to pay for insurance? What about cocker spaniel owners? Those dogs can be pretty dang vicious!
    *Poster formerly known as Bailey422*

    Here's all you have to know about men and women: women are crazy, men are stupid. And the main reason women are crazy is that men are stupid. ~ George Carlin
  • geekygeeky Posts: 4,995Registered Users
    mandyv wrote:
    geeky wrote:
    The court says a dog is a deadly weapon because it can be used to cause death or substantial bodily harm.

    By that reasoning, a fork, a curling iron and a badly positioned banana peel are all deadly weapons. Let's ban them all.

    The next time a fork, curling iron or letter opener and screwdriver attacks someone's throat, then you can say that. If they run across the street to do it to someone who poses no threat or to a toddler in its mother's arms, yes, you can say that.

    Well, the issue at hand is the court said that somehting is a deadly weapon if it "can be used to cause death or substantial bodily harm". By that definition, any object, any animal, is a deadly weapon. By the way, I did not see the text of the decision, but according to the article the court said "dog", not "pit bull".
    To Trenell, MizKerri and geeky:
    I pray none of you ever has to live in a communist state.

    Geeky is my hero. She's the true badass. The badass who doesn't even need to be a badass. There aren't enough O's in cool to describe her.
  • KaiaKaia Posts: 8,815Registered Users
    mandyv wrote:
    geeky wrote:
    The court says a dog is a deadly weapon because it can be used to cause death or substantial bodily harm.

    By that reasoning, a fork, a curling iron and a badly positioned banana peel are all deadly weapons. Let's ban them all.

    The next time a fork, curling iron or letter opener and screwdriver attacks someone's throat, then you can say that. If they run across the street to do it to someone who poses no threat or to a toddler in its mother's arms, yes, you can say that.

    How did toddlers in their mothers' arms come into this thread? I saw nothing in that story suggesting the dog ran across the street to attack someone that posed no threat. The police officer was in the guy's home, as far as the dog was concerned it was someone breaking in trying to hurt its master. My dogs bark their heads off when someone knocks at the door. If someone barged in, I'm sure they'd act defensively. I guess my dachshund and 2 mutts are all deadly weapons then. :roll:
    *Poster formerly known as Bailey422*

    Here's all you have to know about men and women: women are crazy, men are stupid. And the main reason women are crazy is that men are stupid. ~ George Carlin
  • KaiaKaia Posts: 8,815Registered Users
    geeky wrote:
    Well, the issue at hand is the court said that somehting is a deadly weapon if it "can be used to cause death or substantial bodily harm". By that definition, any object, any animal, is a deadly weapon. By the way, I did not see the text of the decision, but according to the article the court said "dog", not "pit bull".

    Well, judging by the OP's last post, I'm starting to see that the motivation for this post was to sensationalize an already sensitive topic to support her own agenda.
    *Poster formerly known as Bailey422*

    Here's all you have to know about men and women: women are crazy, men are stupid. And the main reason women are crazy is that men are stupid. ~ George Carlin
  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,495Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Bailey422 wrote:
    In my city, owners of American pit bull terriers have to carry $100,000 of insurance on each dog. But very few actually do (based on a conversation I had w/ a police officer). I wish they'd crack down on that law...a lot of problems would be solved if they did.

    I don't think that's fair. What about rottweiler, doberman, chow, german shepherd owners... do they have to pay for insurance? What about cocker spaniel owners? Those dogs can be pretty dang vicious!

    Three breeds have been labelled "vicious" here: American pit bull terriers, Staffordshire terriers and American bulldogs (not English or French bulldogs). And the insurance law applies to all three of those. Rotts and the others are not included. However, lots of apartment complexes have rules that ban chows, rotts and a few other breeds. And for 9 years (including while in school) I owned a boxer/chow mix...and my housing choices were severely limited. I accepted that...because the breed (chow) does have a more vicious than average reputation. When I bought a house, they calculated my homeowners' insurance rate based on the breed mix my dog was, too.

    Hey, that's life...I should have done more research before I bought him. I was crazy about that dog, but truth be told, he had a tendancy to become violent (and I didn't realize the extent of that tendancy till the end). I treated that dog better than most people treat their kids...and he still turned out half crazy. Sometimes the reputation fits.

    But yeah, I did hear the stat that cockers bite more people than another dog in the US. LOL OK, then, maybe throw them into the vicious breed group, too. LOL

  • mandyvmandyv Posts: 2,437Registered Users
    Breef-specific legislation is an admission that these dogs are dangerous, more dangerous than any other breed. German shepherds bite but not like pits and they won't kill you. Look at all the stories of pits, who they attack and the way they attack and how many owners say "But they were so lovable, it's a shock," and let's finally be mature enough to say not all breeds should be treated equally and do something about it.

    I've seen one or two pits muzzled in public. All the rest should be.
    3c
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  • AmnerisAmneris Posts: 15,117Registered Users
    Aries_jb wrote:
    Springcurl wrote:
    Peppy wrote:
    Better ban poodles too. My poodle would tear your arm off if you weren't careful. And my mom's rottie was a big baby.

    Owners are the problem. Not the breed.

    exactly.

    So many people get dogs then leave them tied up in the back yard 24/7. ANY frustrated dog is going to attack.

    I agree with both you. Hearing things like this make me so sad. I can't tell you how many people jump out of the way and cross the street when they see my dog. He's just a lovable big baby! I'm careful with him and all, but seeing reactions like that from others makes me feel bad for him. The worst thing he has ever done was jump up on people. Meanwhile, people are running up to my Chihuahua with their kids, ready to pet and play with her, and it's a problem because she's so vicious! I'm more scared to go out with her because she will not hesitate to bite. Pitbulls are really given such a bad rep because their power is exploited by people so often that people think that those types of dogs are BORN that way.

    That in itself would freak me out, and I'm sure it would a lot of other people.
    Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali


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  • KaiaKaia Posts: 8,815Registered Users
    mandyv wrote:
    I've seen one or two pits muzzled in public. All the rest should be.

    This is your opinion, and that's it. One example of a dog attacking someone that barged into their home is not going to sway many people. :roll:
    *Poster formerly known as Bailey422*

    Here's all you have to know about men and women: women are crazy, men are stupid. And the main reason women are crazy is that men are stupid. ~ George Carlin
  • mandyvmandyv Posts: 2,437Registered Users
    Bailey422 wrote:
    Well, judging by the OP's last post, I'm starting to see that the motivation for this post was to sensationalize an already sensitive topic to support her own agenda.

    My purpose was to engage in the debate again because it's far from settled. I watched a woman with her pit on its leash last week and she was giving it commands like "sit" and "stay" and the dog wasn't paying her the least bit attention. It looked like she was lulling herself into believing the dog was obedient. I thought to myself that is one dog that should be muzzled and if I said that to her, she'd be offended and think I was overreacting. That's why the debate continues. Besides, this was in today's paper, a recent ruling.
    3c
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This discussion has been closed.