CurlTalk

I bought a serum. Silicone-heaven/hell

So I caved. I've been seeing more and more gorgeous heads of curls around me in Glasgow, perfectly defined and frizz-free. I'm assuming most of these girls are 'born-again' curlies just beginning to look after their curls, don't know about CG, and have been using standard products. Nearly every brand in Boots now produces its own serum. So I thought, 'why not?'

I read the ingredients of all to make sure I wasn't getting one with proteins, as some of them had quite a few. I chose the Charles Worthington No Frizz Serum, which is:
Cyclopentasiloxane
Dimethicone
Phenyl Trimethicone
Ethylhexyl Methoxycinnamate
BHT

Now I know those are all the worst cones and the words themselves scare me as I'm so used to picking up products and putting them straight back down if they have the C or T cone.

BUT here's my logic. I sulfate most washes. Cowashing didnt work for me, mild cleansers just don't perk up my curls, I need to use sulfates. So if I@m using sulfates, why not use cones? Or at least experiment.

In my head, this is how I see cones:

Pros:
- Tames frizz
- Defines
- Adds lots of shine
- Adds definition
- Super sleek and sexy

Cons:
- Can build up if not removed with sulfates
- Can block hair from getting real moisture

BUT that's my problem. My hair gets the moisture from the hair in this humidity and POOF i've got a poodle head. HOnestly, yesterday in town my hair was twice the size of everyone elses, some girls had gorgeous curls that didn't have a hint of frizz. I'm guessing unless they are miracle workers, silicones had something to do with it.

So remind me - what is bad about silicones, IF I'm already using sulfates? Is there anything wrong with them apart from they build up on CG?

I am going to try this serum anyway, and if worst comes to worst, I'll shampoo it out and consign it to my box of 'no-go'ers'.

I just want gorgeous, shiney, FRIZZ FREE hair for summer! Frizz is my number one problem in summer, seriously. I think I get worse frizz than a lot of people... I have a few photos I'm too embarassed to post...

cleanse: OS shampoo. PureNuffStuff cleanser.
condition: Aussie 3MM. Jessicurl Aloeba.
style: B2Basics GreenTeaGel. T&G Curl Balm. JCarter Nourish&Shine.


pw: curlywurly
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Comments

  • curlylauracurlylaura Posts: 8,352Registered Users
    I've been eyeing up this serum. I'm thinking of getting the small bottle to try it out then if I don't like it I've only lost £1.50. Let me know what you think, I believe we have hair that reacts the same way.
    Fat does not make you fat. It's actually pretty important.
  • jennyfurrensjennyfurrens Posts: 708Registered Users
    Theyv'e also brough out a curl cream, did you see it? It has silicones and if I do decide I like silicones it might be tempting - but it has rice protein in it (never seen that one used before!) and I know that proteins will dry me out. Almost everyone's brought out a serum now! It took me forever to work my way round Boots! Oh and at the moment they have 1/2 price sunglasses vouchers if you spend over £10, so if you do buy some stuff I'd recommend it. Got myself some cool new shades for summer 8) Hopefully to match my frizz-free glossy curls!

    I also got the Frizz-Ease mousse. It's entirely CG I think. No proteins or silicones. I originally planned on just getting that. But it recommended to use it with their serum. But their serum had proteins, and that's how I ended up with the CW serum :roll: I will defiantely let you know :)

    cleanse: OS shampoo. PureNuffStuff cleanser.
    condition: Aussie 3MM. Jessicurl Aloeba.
    style: B2Basics GreenTeaGel. T&G Curl Balm. JCarter Nourish&Shine.


    pw: curlywurly
  • curlylauracurlylaura Posts: 8,352Registered Users
    I haven't seen the cream. I'll have to look out for that.

    Have you tried the Fructis serums? I'm very tempted to give them a go.
    Fat does not make you fat. It's actually pretty important.
  • jennyfurrensjennyfurrens Posts: 708Registered Users
    Any Fructis product I've tried has automatically given me poofy fluff-frizz. I think it's the amodimethicone they use in all their products. If the serum doesnt have amodimethicone I might try it... Will see how CW goes first :wink:

    cleanse: OS shampoo. PureNuffStuff cleanser.
    condition: Aussie 3MM. Jessicurl Aloeba.
    style: B2Basics GreenTeaGel. T&G Curl Balm. JCarter Nourish&Shine.


    pw: curlywurly
  • LadyChamomileBettyLadyChamomileBetty Posts: 23Registered Users
    I actually have seen this brand in one of my local drugstores, kept looking at the conditoner. Really, the drugstore has tons of brands and I am impressed with the selection for being in a small country town. Found Activate there also.

    I am pretty new to the CG routine so I am still learning. I need a bit of cones cause I color treat but not using as much as I was pre finding NC. I think if you are able to recongnize what your hair needs to look and feel great I say try it!

    Good luck.
    Angel Hugs and Love

    Thick, Med-Coarse 2c-3a
    Long Layers
    20.5 - 25.5 June - 30
    Just Below BS
  • KaiaKaia Posts: 8,815Registered Users
    Jenny - I would go ahead and give the serum a try. Remember that silicones will build up over time. If you use it once a week, I'm sure you will be fine with your regular sulfate washes. Now if you use it every single day, then it will probably build up, and you will have to use a harsh clarifying shampoo. Just make sure (as with everything else), you use it in moderation. Let us know if it works out for you.
    *Poster formerly known as Bailey422*

    Here's all you have to know about men and women: women are crazy, men are stupid. And the main reason women are crazy is that men are stupid. ~ George Carlin
  • jennyfurrensjennyfurrens Posts: 708Registered Users
    I just bought the MOP sulfate-free shampoo too :roll: I guess it'll come in handy for when I don't want to use the silicones. I'm wondering whether my hair will like them at all. I hope not too much or I would be tempted to use them a lot, but I know i can only tolerate a mild sulfate shampoo.

    And I have used CK and it left my hair quite dry/crispy. Like the 'fake' feeling you get from a strong hold gel. Kind of artificial. And it costs a bomb to get from the states, it's not available this side of the pond :wink:

    cleanse: OS shampoo. PureNuffStuff cleanser.
    condition: Aussie 3MM. Jessicurl Aloeba.
    style: B2Basics GreenTeaGel. T&G Curl Balm. JCarter Nourish&Shine.


    pw: curlywurly
  • pitgirlpitgirl Posts: 162Registered Users
    Jen, as you know I am a cone junkie and have been for most of my adult life.
    I have never had an issue with buildup.
    I use a serum probably twice a week, and have tried this one. At the moment I'm running down a bottle of Joico serum which is fantastic. I use serum on every other day throughout the week and it's lovely to be able to just run some stuff through your hair and get back the shine and definition. :)

    All you will have to work out is the amount that works for you. I have discovered that applying more to the roots and midlengths and less to the ends the way forward. If you have applied too much and find your ends slightly stringy brave it out, I find by the end of the day my curls have thickened up again.
    3a Redhead
    Umberto Giannini & Curls Rock Amp
    Fotki pw: curls

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  • jennyfurrensjennyfurrens Posts: 708Registered Users
    Do you find it does help with frizz? And do you apply it to wet hair, as your first product? Frizz Ease mousse recommends to apply serum first, comb through hair, then apply gel on top.

    I also had a look at tigi curls rock in a salon today. It looks so tempting if my hair does like cones...

    I think if I do use cones it'll just be summer, as i can get on fine without them in winter, but i always have cr*p summer hair...

    cleanse: OS shampoo. PureNuffStuff cleanser.
    condition: Aussie 3MM. Jessicurl Aloeba.
    style: B2Basics GreenTeaGel. T&G Curl Balm. JCarter Nourish&Shine.


    pw: curlywurly
  • curlyjenncurlyjenn Posts: 585Registered Users
    I use silicones because I use sulfate poos. I rarely have a problem with buildup, but when I do, I just lay off the silicones for a week or three. Usually, I only know I have buildup because my hair starts looking dull and dryish, but still shiny. Then, I know the silicone is coating my hair, not letting the moisture through.
    I'm a 3b, with 3c underneath.

    Used to be CG, now I'm not. Using Suave Aloe & Waterlily shampoo & condish, JoiWhip, BRHG, Suave Aloe gel, Aussie Tizz No Frizz, and anything else that looks good!
    My Myspace!
  • jennyfurrensjennyfurrens Posts: 708Registered Users
    Great, this info is really helpful girls, thanks :)

    So - I though that one sulfate wash would remove the silicones I'd been using. Am I wrong? can silicones still hang around after a sulfate shampoo? I hate to lather twice, and like I said, need sulfates but mild shampoos usually only containing one sulfate, and not the Amonium sulfate (harsher in my experience.)

    I wont be loading on the product, as I dont use much product anyway. But even if I sulfate shampoo at every wash could I still be suspect to buildup?

    cleanse: OS shampoo. PureNuffStuff cleanser.
    condition: Aussie 3MM. Jessicurl Aloeba.
    style: B2Basics GreenTeaGel. T&G Curl Balm. JCarter Nourish&Shine.


    pw: curlywurly
  • curlyjenncurlyjenn Posts: 585Registered Users
    Well, all I can say is that it happens to me on occasion, but I'm talking very rarely here, maybe once or twice a year. Usually, it's because I've been adding a bit more serum each day and haven't washed in 3 or 4 days (other than conditioning). If I've been doing that for a couple of weeks, I'll get some buildup. And I've only noticed it with the cyclo-xane evil cone. The dimethicone and amodimethicone don't do it to me with my occasional washes.
    I'm a 3b, with 3c underneath.

    Used to be CG, now I'm not. Using Suave Aloe & Waterlily shampoo & condish, JoiWhip, BRHG, Suave Aloe gel, Aussie Tizz No Frizz, and anything else that looks good!
    My Myspace!
  • meriellynmeriellyn Posts: 1,135Registered Users
    The only 'cones I haven't been able to get out in one wash is the eeeevil-xanes.
    My mom recently picked up the Giovanni Frizz Be Gone (or something like that) serum. It's fabulous. I only use it to protect/shine when I straighten though because I have thin, fine hair and silicones just weigh down my curls and make 'em look more greasy than shiny. Luckily I've been able to get shiny curls without silicone but for someone with more hair, surlier hair and who is already a sulfate user (I'm not), sounds like it's definitely worth a go.
    The Giovanni serum is cyclomethicone and dimethicone w/ some plant extracts. It may have spy protien in it though, I can't recall.
    If I'm going to use a 'cone, dimethicone is my favorite and I avoid the -xanes like the plague because they make my hair nasty, plasticy, dry, greazy, and not even that shiny. Plus it won't curl woth a d@mn and it breaks me out. Ammodimethicone does nothing for me except build up and break me out. No rewards out of that one but not as bad as the -xane.
    Also, I am able to get that serum out with non-sulfate 'poo. :)
    I hope you have good luck with your new products!

    Haha, I call the one I hate -xane because it's a pain to remember how to spell but it looks kinda like I dare not speak it's name. LOL
    2/f/i, waist length w/ long layers

    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2Fthekittenavenger" class="Popup
    pwd: hair

    ~a wave in a sea of curls ;)
  • medusahairmedusahair Posts: 3,515Registered Users
    I used to just sulfate poo twice to get even the evil xane out. Now I always used cheap ole suave shampoo. My hair though hasn't ever been dry unless say I colored it repeatedly. Just my natural hair with sulfates and cones did fine.

    I was just looking for a good product with a cone or two in it to help out with second day hair. When I sulfated daily and used cones I could get three or four day hair. I miss that!
    2c/3a?
    Low porosity, medium texture.
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2FMedusahair%2F" class="Popup

    If it smells good put it in your hair, if it tastes good spit it out!
  • jennyfurrensjennyfurrens Posts: 708Registered Users
    Oh dang, the serum I got has the 'xane cone as the first ingredient! I'll take it back and try find a serum without the 'xane cone. Is it just harder to remove because it's smaller and binds more or something? ( I can rever be bothered remembering how to spell it either :lol: )

    medusa - you say you miss the great third/fourth day hair you got from sulfates and silicones. I'm not trying to tempt you back to it, but if it was that good, what is better about NOT using them? I ask to see whether I'd be best off without them ;)

    cleanse: OS shampoo. PureNuffStuff cleanser.
    condition: Aussie 3MM. Jessicurl Aloeba.
    style: B2Basics GreenTeaGel. T&G Curl Balm. JCarter Nourish&Shine.


    pw: curlywurly
  • curlylauracurlylaura Posts: 8,352Registered Users
    I was going to get the CW serum when I went to Boots today but they didn't have any so I looked at the Fructis one and decided againt it because the cyco-cone makes my hair psycho!
    Fat does not make you fat. It's actually pretty important.
  • pitgirlpitgirl Posts: 162Registered Users
    I find serum helps combat frizz on 2nd 3rd and 4th days, not really major frizz, just the frizzy hairs that separate themselves from the rest of the clumps. I never apply wet, because curls rock has a lot of "food" in it such as oils etc, and I wouldn't want those to not be able to penetrate.

    I do have a huge bottle of Paul Mitchell Super Skinny Serum which you apply after you've washed which works wonders, sitting in my cupboard doing nothing. If you want it I'll send it to you it was very expensive and if you get some use out of it?????

    I'd definately give the Curls Rock a go Jen, if you don't like it I'll have it :wink:
    I sat down at the weekend and researched every ingredient and typed them up so if you want to have a look I can post it here for you.
    3a Redhead
    Umberto Giannini & Curls Rock Amp
    Fotki pw: curls

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  • jennyfurrensjennyfurrens Posts: 708Registered Users
    UPDATE:

    I took the CW serum back to Boots and swapped it for a serum that doesnt contain cyclo-xane as I keep hearing that this cone is awful to remove, whilst cyclo-cone isnt as bad.

    Almost EVERY serum had cyclo-xane but I found one that doesnt:

    Citre Shine Color Miracle, Color Protecting Polishing serum


    Citre Shine had two other serums, which did contain cylco-xane, but the ingredients to this one are:

    Cyclomethicone, Dimethiconol, Propoxytetramethyl Piperdinyl Dimethicone, Citrius Grandis (White Grapefruit) Fruit extract, Citrus Medica Limonium (Lemon) Fruit Extract, Citrus Nobilis (Mandarin Orange) Fruit Extract, Panthenol, Ascorbis Acid, Tocopherol< Ethylhexyl, Methozycinnamate, Propylene Glycol, Fragrance

    So fingers crossed, we'll see how it goes!

    cleanse: OS shampoo. PureNuffStuff cleanser.
    condition: Aussie 3MM. Jessicurl Aloeba.
    style: B2Basics GreenTeaGel. T&G Curl Balm. JCarter Nourish&Shine.


    pw: curlywurly
  • meriellynmeriellyn Posts: 1,135Registered Users
    I used to love the Citre Shine serums back in the day.
    2/f/i, waist length w/ long layers

    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2Fthekittenavenger" class="Popup
    pwd: hair

    ~a wave in a sea of curls ;)
  • jennyfurrensjennyfurrens Posts: 708Registered Users
    Well I've washed my hair, applied the citre shine under Herbal Essences SMU gel and waitiing for it to air dry. My hair was sooo mooth whilst brushing through the serum, seriously tangle free.

    But as it's drying I see more and more hairs drying out from the curl, like splitting off clumps, so theres lots of frizz before the curl has dried. I remmeber this from using Fructis which contains amodimethicone. It could be ok once its fully dry, but I'm guessing it'll keep going like this and my hair will look awful when dry. Maybe my hair just doesnt like silicones at all. And if it doesnt, what am I going to use to fight humidity :roll:

    I'm thinking this could be silicone hell.... and I wanted to go out for a drink tonight with my SO, but I can tell an awful hair day may be approaching...

    cleanse: OS shampoo. PureNuffStuff cleanser.
    condition: Aussie 3MM. Jessicurl Aloeba.
    style: B2Basics GreenTeaGel. T&G Curl Balm. JCarter Nourish&Shine.


    pw: curlywurly
  • 1curlydoc1curlydoc Posts: 158Registered Users
    So...what's the verdict, jf? How did it turn out?
    thick 3b; currently loving Devacurl and Kinky-Curly

  • jennyfurrensjennyfurrens Posts: 708Registered Users
    So it's end of day two after using the serum on wet hair.

    Pros:
    -When brushing through wet hair it was incredibly tangle free
    - My hair feels very soft, like the sort of softness I only get from overconditioning, but without the fluffyness of overconditioning.

    Cons:
    - (This is a con for me, maybe not for others) It minimised volume, so I had quite a flat top. Whilst this made my hair look sleeker and smoother on top, it wasn't the sort of curls I like. As my hair is long it needs teh volume on top or I look like a cockerspaniel (y'know, wiht the flat top and big curly ears...)
    - As it was drying a few hairs did split off from the clumps. So when fully dry, it wasnt as noticeable, but was still there. When I don't use serum, this doesn't happen, and I dont have any frizz until second day. Whilst this frizz hasnt gotten any worse on 2nd or 3rd day hair, thus proving that it does minimise frizz throughout the day, I don't like the frizz it gave me in the first place.

    Overall:
    I won't be using it again unless I want the sleek look for a particular occasion. My hair has never really worked well with silicone-heavy products. However, I do realise the benefits of silicones and may consider using gels or creams that have a silicone in them, and see how these work. But for a serum that is mainly just silicones, I think it was too much for me.

    My hair didn't look bad, but it didn't look good. It ended up looking bland. Just 'non-descripit.' I didnt feel like I was having a bad hair day, but it wasn't necesarily a good one either.

    Hope this was useful to everyone :)

    cleanse: OS shampoo. PureNuffStuff cleanser.
    condition: Aussie 3MM. Jessicurl Aloeba.
    style: B2Basics GreenTeaGel. T&G Curl Balm. JCarter Nourish&Shine.


    pw: curlywurly
  • pitgirlpitgirl Posts: 162Registered Users
    Well we have to try these things.

    I dont think I will ever not find something new to try even though I know what works already.

    It's all because us curlies are so curious :D
    3a Redhead
    Umberto Giannini & Curls Rock Amp
    Fotki pw: curls

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  • jennyfurrensjennyfurrens Posts: 708Registered Users
    Exactly :wink: I still want to try products that contain silicones, but I think serums may be tooooo heavy for me. Although maybe I used too much? I will test this serum again soon I'm sure, but I want a guranteed good hair day when I wash next, so it'll be my old faithful routine for once! SOmetimes I experiment so much I forget how my hair can really look...

    cleanse: OS shampoo. PureNuffStuff cleanser.
    condition: Aussie 3MM. Jessicurl Aloeba.
    style: B2Basics GreenTeaGel. T&G Curl Balm. JCarter Nourish&Shine.


    pw: curlywurly
  • lazy loopslazy loops Posts: 8,792Registered Users
    I think serums would be too heavy for me, mimicking how natural oils used straight make my hair feel & look, which is greasy & flat. Though moderation is key & it's so hard to find that perfect amount. --- Have you tried jojoba oil? I recently went back to this & found out my past bad experience was probably from using too much though I don't remember how many drops I was using. Now I find 3 drops can sometimes be not enough & 6 drops is too much, so I settle for 4 to 5.

    I don't have a fear for methicone, simethicone, cyclomethicone, pheyltrimethicone, dimethicone, amodimethicone, or others if I'm missing any, & any combination of such with/without PEG or other ingredients.

    They must end in -cone though, not -xane. And there are more -xane silicones than just cyclopentasiloxane, which I found out on accident not too long ago. The products I tried containing such silicones left my hair feeling dry & bumpy, pretty much immediately. I'm guessing they lifted the cuticle too far.
  • 1curlydoc1curlydoc Posts: 158Registered Users
    Here's an idea for you jennyfurrens. After I read about your silicone experiment yesterday I decided to use my regular products but then scrunch out the crunch with some Ouidad shine glaze I had on the shelf (it's mostly cyclomethicone and dimethicone). I let my hair dry like normal but instead of scrunching with SIF which I usually use I scrunched with just a few drops of the shine glaze. My hair felt nice and soft and was quite frizz free. Maybe you could try using your serum that way.
    thick 3b; currently loving Devacurl and Kinky-Curly

  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,389Registered Users
    They may have changed the formula, but this product has a ninja cone in the ingredients (it doesn't actually end in -cone) and is basically a light serum. I used it without realizing that it was water-insoluble, and I liked it a lot. It smoothed my hair without weighing it down at all. I'm really prone to cone-buildup, though, so I stopped using it when I found out its Dark Secret. If you can't find that one, Pantene's other "comb-in treatments" are just like it, but in different colors. They're the ones that open like glue bottles (twist the cap and it rises, creating a hole).
  • jennyfurrensjennyfurrens Posts: 708Registered Users
    Thanks for the suggestion curlydoc :) Unfortunately, I've tried using serum on dry hair before and it just doesn't work. It automatically breaks up clumps into poofs. That's why I was hoping it would work on wet hair instead. But I guess if my hair is crunchy its not dry OR wet so I may try it next time a good hair day isn't essential, to see :wink:

    I'm intrigued at these other cones that end in xane but arent cyclo-xane. What was the other cone eilonway?

    cleanse: OS shampoo. PureNuffStuff cleanser.
    condition: Aussie 3MM. Jessicurl Aloeba.
    style: B2Basics GreenTeaGel. T&G Curl Balm. JCarter Nourish&Shine.


    pw: curlywurly
  • pitgirlpitgirl Posts: 162Registered Users
    I'm still going to post you some of that serum Jen. The few times I tried it I thought it was quite light compared to others.

    Don't know if the ingreds reflect this.
    3a Redhead
    Umberto Giannini & Curls Rock Amp
    Fotki pw: curls

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  • miacurlmiacurl Posts: 332Registered Users
    I am one of the rare few (I think rare!) who like silicones and I prefer the cyclopentisiloxane (sp?) one especially. Why? The c. cone does not weigh my hair down. If I regularly condition and DT and if the serum itself has oil in it (like OJON Shine Serum) my hair does splendidly with it. I find only 2 silicones work well. The c. cone and the amodimethicone. All others weigh my hair down much too much.

    My hair is too big, too puffy, and too messy looking without any silicones. I have tried and tried and tried. Does not work without silicones. Even Lorraine Massey likes silicones--some--now. She said it herself in an interview. In the CG book, those pics of her were before her products. Looking at her hair now--using amodimethicone regluarly--her hair looks fabulous.
    2C/3A auburn hair.
    between shoulders and BSL
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