Can porosity change?

CurlyLiliCurlyLili Posts: 69Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Curl Connoisseur
In one of the curly hair FB groups I am in, a devacut lvl 3 stylist said that she doesn't believe that hair porosity can change. She also doesn't agree with moisture/protein balance, claiming that is simply not how hair works. I am wondering what you guys think about this topic. Coloring and heat styling your hair will of course cause damage and make your hair more porous. But can this be reversed? Does protein help porous hair to become less porous?
Type: 3a/3b
Hair strand thickness: medium/coarse
Density: thick
Porosity: low at roots/normal mid-shaft/high at ends
Sensitivity to protein: no

Cleanse: DC Low-poo
Clarify: Build up buster, Malibu-C Un do goo
DT: DC Melt into moisture, Curly Hair Solutions Pure Silk Protein Treatment, occasional fermented rice water
Condition: DC One Condition Original and One Condition Decadence
Style: DC ArcAngel, DC UDG, Curl Keeper Original, Jessicurl Confident coils, Spiralicious, Deva B'leave in


Comments

  • Therese1Therese1 Posts: 2,563Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    I think that protein use does cause hair to be less porous, but it may be temporary. Is that what the stylist is saying, that it is not permanent?

    As you point out, low-porosity hair can certainly become high porosity after damaging treatments and use of heat tools. That is change in porosity.

    My hair is sensitive to protein, and the more I use protein, the lower my hair porosity becomes, such that I eventually have to do deep treatments to get conditioner to penetrate my hair instead of just sitting on top. My hair will also have increased noticeably in drying time. That is a change in porosity, albeit a temporary change until the extra protein wears off.

    I do agree that the moisture-protein balance thing can be oversimplified, which might be what the stylist is getting at. Some people say that if your hair strand is dry and breaks instead of stretching, then you need moisture, so to use deep conditioners rather than protein. But protein can be moisturizing too, since it shores up the cuticle so that water doesn't readily evaporate. I believe this is the case more with the smaller proteins rather than the larger ones.

    All stylists have their own take on hair and how to work with it. Take Lorraine Massey, for instance. She is now saying that oils can be bad for the hair, because they don't allow moisture to get into the hair shaft (oil will block the water). But some curlies get excellent results by using oils. It's like any other art: different things work for different people, and different things have different effects. Some prefer one type of effect over another.
    Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonic; Oribe Cleansing Creme
    RO: IN Harmonic
    LI: CJ Beauticurls; Jessicurl (JC) Gelebration Spray
    DC: JC Deep Conditioning Treatment; Weleda Rosemary Conditioning Oil
    Stylers: JC Confident Coils; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray; John Masters Sea Mist; Bumble Bb. Gel; Kenra Firm-Hold Gel; Sevi Blue Yarrow Sea Salt Spray
    Low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair
  • CurlyLiliCurlyLili Posts: 69Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Curl Connoisseur
    @Therese1  The question was how to know if your hair needs protein or moisture, and that stylist replied: "Porosity doesn't matter, and protein is really only helpful in the case of recent, low grade damage. More severe damage can't be repaired and will need to be cut off.There is not truly an issue of protein/moisture balance, it's simply not how moisture or protein work. No matter how many times people post the misinformed chart." - the chart she is talking about: 
    Some people then opposed her comment, and she added: "Many people think that porosity dictates product useage and so the myth gets perpetuated. But in reality your porosity changes down the hair shaft, for everyone, and either you're low porosity which is simply harder to color, or you're super high porosity and those ends will need to be cut off, or you're somewhere in the middle. There is no repairing or sealing high porosity."

    I definitely don't agree with the "no repairing high porosity" part. Implementing protein treatments into my hair routine definitely helped my high porous ends & crown hair to stay moisturized longer, and hold curl better. Unfortunately, I don't own a microscope to prove it, but I can definitely notice the improvement. 

    I think Lorraine Massey didn't mean to say all oils should be avoided. I think she was targeting some specific oil and butter based products which, if used on a regular basis, cause terrible buildup and prevent hair from being able to absorb moisture. Those products usually don't contain the highest quality ingredients. She said quality oils are not cheap, and using them sparingly (as a sealant) is still ok. 
    Type: 3a/3b
    Hair strand thickness: medium/coarse
    Density: thick
    Porosity: low at roots/normal mid-shaft/high at ends
    Sensitivity to protein: no

    Cleanse: DC Low-poo
    Clarify: Build up buster, Malibu-C Un do goo
    DT: DC Melt into moisture, Curly Hair Solutions Pure Silk Protein Treatment, occasional fermented rice water
    Condition: DC One Condition Original and One Condition Decadence
    Style: DC ArcAngel, DC UDG, Curl Keeper Original, Jessicurl Confident coils, Spiralicious, Deva B'leave in


  • Therese1Therese1 Posts: 2,563Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    Well, I would agree with her about the chart, which is simplistic (when my hair feels mushy, it's not that I have too much moisture, it's that I need protein; and when I have too much protein, sometimes my hair is super stretchy when wet), but I do think that porosity does have a lot to do with what products will work for you. When my hair was high porosity, it liked different products than it does now. I could use heavier products, and I could use a lot of protein. Now that my hair is low porosity (and I'm not sure why it changed, because it's the same hair), it cannot handle much protein at all, and heavier products are a big no-no. So my hair's porosity is dictating what products work well for me, at least to some extent.
    Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonic; Oribe Cleansing Creme
    RO: IN Harmonic
    LI: CJ Beauticurls; Jessicurl (JC) Gelebration Spray
    DC: JC Deep Conditioning Treatment; Weleda Rosemary Conditioning Oil
    Stylers: JC Confident Coils; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray; John Masters Sea Mist; Bumble Bb. Gel; Kenra Firm-Hold Gel; Sevi Blue Yarrow Sea Salt Spray
    Low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair
  • Guide 65Guide 65 Posts: 1,984Registered Users, Moderators Curl Virtuoso
    I agree with some of what she said, and disagree with other things.  I mostly agree with this:

    "Many people think that porosity dictates product useage and so the myth gets perpetuated. But in reality your porosity changes down the hair shaft, for everyone, and either you're low porosity which is simply harder to color, or you're super high porosity and those ends will need to be cut off, or you're somewhere in the middle."

    I don't know that it's everyone that has mixed porosity, but I think it's true for a lot.  And I learned from taking the MAP course that porosity isn't as important to product selection as most people make it out to be.  Scott Musgrave uses the same 4 products on all his clients, and he says they work for everyone.  For people with high porosity hair, he uses more product.  For low porosity, he goes very light handed.  Those 4 products are high quality, so drug store products may have more variables as to whether they work or not, depending on the porosity.

    I'm not sure if you can truly "repair" high porosity hair.  You can go from dry and dehydrated to properly moisturized - but does that actually effect the porosity?  That would be a good question for Wendy from the Science-y Hair Blog. 

    What I disagree with is the protein/moisture balance question.  I do believe that it needs to be balanced for everyone.  Some may need more protein and less moisture, some may need very little protein and more moisture, but a proper balance is needed for consistent curls. 

    Another thing I've learned from the MAP course is that too many people use some protein and get bad results so they think they have a protein "sensitivity" and can't use any, so they drop all protein forever, and still their hair isn't quite right.  Or people (like me!) think our hair loves protein so we use protein everything, and weekly protein treatments - and still we have frizzy dry hair.  We're taught to make small changes - use a conditioner with protein, and no protein for everything else.  Or use the protein conditioner once a week, and go protein free the rest of the time.  One your hair is properly hydrated, you don't have to worry so much about protein (and glycerin, and aloe and whatever else people think they need to avoid). 

    Anyway...sorry for the wall of text.  But I think this is an interesting discussion. 

    Formerly known as Janiegirl
    2B/2C, fine hair, low density, mixed porosity, protein loving hair
    Current products:
    Changing up my shampoos because I can't find one I like
    Deva Curl One Condition (original formula)
    Innersense I Create Volume
    Deva Curl Ultra Defining Gel
  • jeepcurlygurljeepcurlygurl Posts: 20,724Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Curl Virtuoso
    I don't really pay much attention to porosity when I choose products (maybe I should tho!). 
    My hair actually has 3 different types of porosity. It's long and grows slowly so the ends tend to be "old" and porous. The middle is average porosity and the "new" top part is low porosity. 
    Sometimes I will add some oil to the ends because they tend to get dry in winter. But other than that I don't do much. 
    --I'm located in Western PA.   --I found NC in late 2004, CG since February 2005, joined the forums in May 2005, started going grey in late 2005.   --My hair is 3B with some 3A, currently at mid back length when dry,  texture-medium/fine, porosity-top is low, middle is medium, ends are porous, elasticity-normal.   --My long time favorite products are Suave & VO5 conditioners, LA Looks Sport Gel, coconut oil, honey, vinegar.   
    --My CG and grey hair progress -  
    http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/going-gray/179328-jeepys-grey-hair-progress.html   
    --My article at NaturallyCurly about going grey - 
    https://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/color/how-i-went-completely-gray-and-loved-it
  • CurlyLiliCurlyLili Posts: 69Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Curl Connoisseur
    Here is an interview with that hair stylist, the q&a starts at 18 min:



    I actually think she is making a lot of sense about the "protein sensitivity" often being confused with "buildup from bad products". But then again... I only know my own hair, so can't really be the judge. 
    Type: 3a/3b
    Hair strand thickness: medium/coarse
    Density: thick
    Porosity: low at roots/normal mid-shaft/high at ends
    Sensitivity to protein: no

    Cleanse: DC Low-poo
    Clarify: Build up buster, Malibu-C Un do goo
    DT: DC Melt into moisture, Curly Hair Solutions Pure Silk Protein Treatment, occasional fermented rice water
    Condition: DC One Condition Original and One Condition Decadence
    Style: DC ArcAngel, DC UDG, Curl Keeper Original, Jessicurl Confident coils, Spiralicious, Deva B'leave in


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