After 40 years, I still haven’t figured it out.

OranjTulipOranjTulip Registered Users Posts: 8 Curl Novice
Hello!

So, I have a rather uncommon hair situation. My hair is texturally frizzy, 3B, unruly curls and naturally blonde (I.E. no melanin so my individual strands are thin and weaker). It’s like a genetic disaster upon my head. Because of this weird combination, chemical relaxers/straightening never worked in the past  (Even permanent hair dye somehow completely washes out of my hair in two weeks. Too porous?), and every product I’ve tried is either too light and doesn’t get rid of the frizz, is way too heavy and greasy or makes my hair look like shiny, crunchy ramen noodles. And my hair is always stiff, no matter what. My hair never bounces. Is it unrealistic to get frizz free, soft, shiny, bouncy curls in an easy wash and go, just rake some product through my hair method? Any suggestions, tips, help, constructive criticism would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! ❤️

Recent with ECO Argan Oil gel. Ramen noodle head!


Combed and no product before I cut 6 inches. 


Front side with no product/combed before cut. So much natural frizz! So much!

Answers

  • Guide 65Guide 65 Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 1,984 Curl Virtuoso
    Welcome to CurlTalk!  You have beautiful curls!  What products are you using now?  And what is your routine?  I'm sure we could give you some suggestions to try, but it's good to know where you are now before we can help.
    Formerly known as Janiegirl
    2B/2C, fine hair, low density, mixed porosity, protein loving hair
    Current products:
    Changing up my shampoos because I can't find one I like
    Deva Curl One Condition (original formula)
    Innersense I Create Volume
    Deva Curl Ultra Defining Gel
  • WavyKfromNJWavyKfromNJ Registered Users Posts: 853 Curl Virtuoso
    First put down the comb.  Only comb or brush your hair while you detangle with  conditioner in your hair.  When you comb/brush your dry hair it breaks up the curl clumps and makes your hair look frizzy.

    I would suggest protein. 
    The cheap route is at Sally Beauty - Colorful Neutral Protein filler you can add a few drops to your conditioner right before you use it.  You can put some in a spray bottle with some water and spritz you hair with it.  You can get a small bottle for about $3. 
     
    The more expensive route (that I have experience with) is the Living Proof Restore line.  For me it has a good moisture protein balance. 

    I would start with the cheap route.

    You also probably need moisture and I really am a fan of the new Garnier 1 Minute Masks.  They can be used as a mask or leave-in.  Also just regularly spritzing your hair with water 2 or 3 times a day can really make a difference.

    There are videos on YouTube that demo root clipping, this will help give you more volume at the roots.  I think FitKat has one.


    Here is a great post about moisture/protein balance that really helped me:
    http://rockyncurls.blogspot.com/search/label/Protein and Overconditioning

    Here is a great post about protein in hair:
    http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2015/10/protein-101-lots-of-basic-information.html

    I suggest reading all of the science-y hair blog.



    2b, 2c,
    High Porosity - Very Fine Hair

    Low Poo: Living Proof Restore Shampoo
    Rinse Out: Living Proof Restore Conditioner
    Leave In: Living Proof Curl Leave-In or Garnier 1 Minute Mask - Papaya
    Treatments: Restore Repair Leave-In, 
    Styling: Living Proof In-Shower Styler with Ouidad Advanced Climate Control Gel Stronger Hold
  • OranjTulipOranjTulip Registered Users Posts: 8 Curl Novice
    I should probably note that I only use a wide toothed comb when detangling my hair when wet. I never touch it with anything when dry! I never ever brush my hair! 

    I shampoo with a moisturizing shampoo. (I co-wash once in a while but I can’t do it often due to seborrheic dermatitis on my scalp. So many issues!) and then condition with a moisturizing or protein packed conditioner. Then I use a leave in conditioner and then a styling product. 

    Also, that frizzy texture is my natural hair texture. That is simply what it naturally looks like without product. I moisturize the hell out of my hair and I do use protein conditioners alternately. But that is my natural texture even after doing that, regardless. My hair turned into a frizzy curl at 3. My brother, father and cousin have frizzy curly hair and my grandmother mother did too. The frizz is genetic not because my hair is dry. The fact that I’m blonde just makes it look like hay rather than normal textured curls. Finding products to fight genetics isn’t easy. Lol
  • WavyKfromNJWavyKfromNJ Registered Users Posts: 853 Curl Virtuoso
    Can you tell us which products you use.  We may know some that are better!

    Also buildup can make your hair really wonky.
    2b, 2c,
    High Porosity - Very Fine Hair

    Low Poo: Living Proof Restore Shampoo
    Rinse Out: Living Proof Restore Conditioner
    Leave In: Living Proof Curl Leave-In or Garnier 1 Minute Mask - Papaya
    Treatments: Restore Repair Leave-In, 
    Styling: Living Proof In-Shower Styler with Ouidad Advanced Climate Control Gel Stronger Hold
  • OranjTulipOranjTulip Registered Users Posts: 8 Curl Novice
    I have no product build up. And my hair is relatively healthy. Good elasticity, etc. The stiffness/lack of bounce is just because of the way my hair is. It’s very much like Afrocentric hair in texture. Right now I just started using Shuga shampoo and conditioner (it’s sulfate and cone free). I’ve been using Infusium repair and renew leave in treatment (the best leave in I’ve tried so far). And various styling products depending on whether or not I wear my hair up or down, the weather or the season. Lol. But no matter what I’ve used, no matter the combination, nothing makes my hair soft, bouncy, shiny and frizz/tangle/knot free. And if I just shampoo and condition without anything put in after, it’s the frizzy, hay like hair shown above that tangles and knots instantaneously. I think if my hair were brown or even red, it would look more....normal. But because I’m blonde, it just looks bizarre.
  • Guide 65Guide 65 Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 1,984 Curl Virtuoso
    Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on the CG method.  Do you apply your gel to sopping wet hair?  I found that did the most for giving me soft, tangle free hair.  Also, do you S2C?  That was another game changer for me.  And one last suggestion - are you remoisturizing every day?  A little spray with water/conditioner can really help. 
    Formerly known as Janiegirl
    2B/2C, fine hair, low density, mixed porosity, protein loving hair
    Current products:
    Changing up my shampoos because I can't find one I like
    Deva Curl One Condition (original formula)
    Innersense I Create Volume
    Deva Curl Ultra Defining Gel
  • BrittanyMBrittanyM Registered Users Posts: 1,218 Curl Virtuoso
    Your hair with eco styler looks good. If you’re upset with the roots, just clip. Also did you scrunch out the crunch? This prevents the ramen noodle look.
    what styling products are you using? I like leave in, with one drop oil mixed with a cream followed by the eco styler gel. This creates frizz free curls that stay moisturized and defined for days.
  • BrittanyMBrittanyM Registered Users Posts: 1,218 Curl Virtuoso
    Lorraine Massey once said something that stuck with me and I always try to share it here when someone is frustrated. Everyone has the potential to have beautiful hair. Remember that. You just have to find what works for you.
  • WavyKfromNJWavyKfromNJ Registered Users Posts: 853 Curl Virtuoso
    I did look up the Infusium you are using and it does have some silicones.  I don't know if your shampoo can get rid of silicones, so you may have some build up.

    I agree with the others about clipping and gel.
    2b, 2c,
    High Porosity - Very Fine Hair

    Low Poo: Living Proof Restore Shampoo
    Rinse Out: Living Proof Restore Conditioner
    Leave In: Living Proof Curl Leave-In or Garnier 1 Minute Mask - Papaya
    Treatments: Restore Repair Leave-In, 
    Styling: Living Proof In-Shower Styler with Ouidad Advanced Climate Control Gel Stronger Hold
  • OranjTulipOranjTulip Registered Users Posts: 8 Curl Novice
    My hair has been like this my whole life. A leave in spray I’ve been using for 6 months has not changed my hair in any way. I’m certain I don’t have build up. Hair loss is my main problem but that could be caused by medication or any number of factors.

    I have scrunched the crunch....and that’s when my natural frizz re-emerges. So, I try not to touch it much. I’ve also tried applying product to sopping wet hair and it made no difference.

    What is S2C?

    And what do you mean by clip the roots?
  • BrittanyMBrittanyM Registered Users Posts: 1,218 Curl Virtuoso
    Try a cream leave in. Sprays are erratic and not heavy enough for me. Also, just scrunch out the crunch. There is over manipulation and simply removing the cast. S2C is squish to condish. There are youtube videos on both squish to condish and clipping.
    Are you sure you don't have build up? I would start the curly girl method over again since your conditioner has silicones if I were you. Your hair is able to be moisturized and curly, I promise. Your hair may be prone to frizz but that doesn't mean that's how your hair will always be.
  • OranjTulipOranjTulip Registered Users Posts: 8 Curl Novice
    I’ve always used cream leave ins in the past. Results were the same. 

    Oh, squish to condish. Yeah. I’ve tried that too. The simple act of even trying to flip my stiff hair forward in the shower, then S2C, then flipping it back...no matter the amount or type of conditioner I use, I end up with a tangled, knotted mess.

    I’m sure I don’t have build up. My hair is not prone to frizz. Frizz has always been my natural texture. Since I was 3. I do not have....white people hair. A lot of these methods do not work on Afrocentric hair types. And that is what I have. I might have to consider taking the time to finger coil my whole head of hair and see how that fairs. Other than that, I’m not sure what else to do.
  • BrittanyMBrittanyM Registered Users Posts: 1,218 Curl Virtuoso
    You don't have type 4 hair if that's what you mean by "afrocentric." Your hair is mostly 3b ish. Also Squish to condish doesn't have to be upside down. My hair tangles horribly if manipulated too much and upside down is a definite no.
    What styling products are you using?
    Do you like your hair when it is wet? Most people have frizz free hair when their hair is wet but hate it when it's dry. If this is the case, then there are work arounds.
    In the meantime, you can try heatless styles, flexirods, twists, braids, etc.
    I do think you are using the wrong products or have the wrong idea of how to care for your hair.
  • OranjTulipOranjTulip Registered Users Posts: 8 Curl Novice
    Yeah, my hair looks totally different when wet. I have almost loose waves when wet. When it dries, it becomes the frizzy texture, coils and shrinks like 4+ inches. What are the work arounds? I will try the S2C without flipping my hair over and see how that fairs.

    What do you recommend for products and care?
  • GretchenGretchen Administrator Moderators Posts: 10,840 Curl Virtuoso
    Welcome, @OranjTulip!  We're so glad you've joined us!  Find a styler that works for you, and then try the Skip Curl method to get clumps. 


    Gretchen
    NaturallyCurly.com co-founder
    3A

    You are beautiful!
  • BrittanyMBrittanyM Registered Users Posts: 1,218 Curl Virtuoso
    Are you in the US?
    If so, I would keep your current low poo if it's silicone free.
    I really like the Generic Value Products Conditioning Balm for a rinse out. It has a ton of slip and is generally moisturizing.
    For a weekly deep condition, my favorite is Shea Moisture Manuka Honey and Mafura Oil Masque. I also like the True by Made Beautiful Deep Intensive Treatment. (One thing to do is deep condition weekly. This repairs and moisturizes your hair).
    Rinse out like 80% of your conditioner after detangling (either the masque or a normal conditioner). Alternatively you could leave all of it in and use no styling products, but some people find this hit or miss. For me, it leaves soft defined curls but makes my scalp itch like crazy from build up.
    For a leave in, if you have tangle prone hair, Kinky Curly Knot Today is life.
    I haven't found a cream I like a lot yet, but a curly girl method styling cream will work.
    Both the leave in and cream should be either praying hands method applied or combed/brushed through to evenly distribute. If you find your hair is drying or getting frizzy, add water. I like to add water anyway because at the end of the day, water gives moisture.
    Top off with the eco styler gel by gently smoothing over your length. If you want to encourage the curl, scrunch gently up. But do it upright since your hair tangles if you turn upside down. If not, just let it dry after smoothing. Your hair will dry but look wet and will feel crunchy. The important thing is DO NOT TOUCH your hair while it is drying at all. I would not recommend blow drying or diffusing until you have a handle on your curls.
    Once your hair is dry, get a drop or two of oil (or don't... I just recommend it for you since you said breaking the cast causes frizz) and rub your hands together. Flip your head upside down (or upright) and GENTLY scrunch your curls. You are simply breaking the cast, not styling your hair or going to war. It is better to have some curls have a cast than to manipulate too much and end up with a lot of frizz. And do not brush while dry.
    Prediction: You will end up with no volume with this method, but your frizz will be reduced. If you can get to the place where your curls are defined, we can give you advice on other issues. Frizz is just a curl waiting to happen (a quote from Lorraine Massey).
    I do highly recommend reading the Curly Girl Handbook if you have not already. Keep an open mind to everything everyone says even if you think it will not work. Read around and see what others are doing. I don't necessarily recommend you run out and buy all the products I mentioned, but the idea is that layering products keeps frizz at bay. In the meantime, you can experiment with just conditioner or conditioner and gel. Try everything out at least two to three times before dismissing it; and even trying products in different seasons can make a difference. Best of luck!
  • OranjTulipOranjTulip Registered Users Posts: 8 Curl Novice
    Thank you so much!

    Now aside from mixing small amounts in your hands to see how they react, is there another way to tell if products will turn to “cottage cheese” in your hair? I know it’s an ingredient/chemical reaction but I can’t for the life of me remember what the ingredients are that cause that reaction. And it’s a problem I’ve had in the past with layering products. It’s why I stopped layering creams and gels and tried to just stick with a single cream or gel product and used a spray leave in. 
  • beantreesbeantrees Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Posts: 116 Curl Connoisseur
    @OranjTulip - I don't know the ingredients that mix poorly together, though I do know what you're talking about.  Someone else probably knows.  FWIW though, my products do that when I scrunch them into my hair, and I have dark hair so it shows up really easily.  However, they don't stay.  Once the products/my hair dries, there is no more white clumpy product mess, so I just don't worry about it.  I don't know if that's similar to your experience, but if they turn into "cottage cheese" when you apply them, it's possible that it might disappear once your hair dries.
    2C/3A, med/coarse, thick density, high porosity - CG since 5/17/2018
    Earlobe length on one side and pixie short in back and other side.  Growing out to chin/jaw length.
    Cleanse: Inecto Coconut Conditioner, SM JBCO shampoo
    RO Condition: SM Curl & Shine
    DT: SM JBCO masque
    LI: SM JBCO leave in, Giovanni Direct Leave-in
    Stylers: AG Recoil or SM Curl Enhancing Smoothie or SM Curl & Style Milk, Carina Organics gel


  • BrittanyMBrittanyM Registered Users Posts: 1,218 Curl Virtuoso
    I've actually never had a reaction of products not mixing. I have noticed from makeup and moisturizes that silicones are extremely finicky when mixed with other stuff. A lot of this is trial and error. I do know for a fact that all the products I specifically mentioned can be combined, but again, you never have to use the exact same products as someone. Try and see because it may be as beantrees suggested, it may last only while your hair is wet.
  • OranjTulipOranjTulip Registered Users Posts: 8 Curl Novice
    So, I started to carefully just wash my scalp and just let the shampoo rinse out over the rest of my hair, then S2C without flipping my hair forward. Then I apply leave in conditioner, then styling product, then finger curl my whole head in sections. And just sop up the dripping water with a t shirt in a scrunching motion. I’m getting really nice, defined spiral curls now! Guess I just really needed to learn how to properly work with my hair. Thanks for the help everyone!
  • WavyKfromNJWavyKfromNJ Registered Users Posts: 853 Curl Virtuoso
    We would love to see some pictures.  
    2b, 2c,
    High Porosity - Very Fine Hair

    Low Poo: Living Proof Restore Shampoo
    Rinse Out: Living Proof Restore Conditioner
    Leave In: Living Proof Curl Leave-In or Garnier 1 Minute Mask - Papaya
    Treatments: Restore Repair Leave-In, 
    Styling: Living Proof In-Shower Styler with Ouidad Advanced Climate Control Gel Stronger Hold
  • BeinDebBeinDeb Registered Users Posts: 583 Curl Connoisseur
    Whoa! I suspect we suffer from the same genes. Maybe some Scandanavian blood floating around in there?? Your hair is hauntingly familiar!

    Have you tried oil rinsing? It works quite well to soften hair. There's various ways to do it, but I've found the simplest is to apply several drops (dime to nickel size pooled - start with less, and do more next time if you don't notice a difference) of any oil (I alternate between castor & baby oil) of your choice after you shampoo from the ears down. Rub it between your hands & apply from the ears down (avoid the scalp) and maybe a quick pass over the canopy. Squish it in. Then, apply your conditioner and leave it in as long as you normally do. Rinse however you do normally.

    Another thing that may help is fermented rice water rinses. My hair demands protein, and this helps it tremendously. Boil some rice and save the water. Put it in a jar, cover, and let it sit for approximately 24 hours. When it's ready for use, it will smell a bit soured. Keep it in the fridge. I use it after my conditioner. I have an applicator bottle that I fill half w/the FRW and half with water (shake well before using) and I distribute it throughout my hair, squishing it in. Leave for a couple minutes, then rinse. (*A side note -  I don't have SD, but do have issues with excema and psoriasis. As this always helps it during a flare up, I make sure it gets on my scalp.) 

    For styling, try Kinky Curly's Curling Custard. It's expensive but it's worth it. Keep in mind you'll have to play with how much to use. It defines quite nice and won't weigh your hair down. Or, if you want to DIY, definitely try flaxseed gel. If you're interested in a lazy girl's diy spray flaxseed gel recipe, pm me and I'll share. 

    Of all the products I've tried through the years, these things have worked the best, and I always go back to them after whatever mad scientist projects or commercial products I'm experimenting with.

  • StillunsureonmycurltypeStillunsureonmycurltype Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Posts: 92 Curl Connoisseur
    You may have a sensitivity to an ingredient, or it may be that hair type that reacts better to high end rather than low end budget friendlier products (guilty :wink:).

    Sometimes, well for me, having too much protein in an instance can cause that type of frizz, where my hair is quite literally standing and searching for moisture. So, I have to balance it with moisturizing styling products that contain very little to no protein. I have a coarse patch, that is protein sensitive, but a medium patch (when it wants to be) that is protein loving. My coarse patch is the frizziest patch and the driest, while my medium is the more behaved part of my hair.

    My coarse patch hates argan making it feel very dry like a carpet, but my medium loves it makes it feel very soft. Your hair may just have a sensitivity to certain ingredients and you still may need to find what it likes and doesn't like. Took me a while of trial and error to figure out why my wash n gos haven't gone 100% the way I want. They were good, but not at the level I wanted and I noticed that I added something new and then experimented if it was that.

    Point is, experiment a little. 

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