"nappy headed ho's"

keikok

I'm not sure if this has already been posted but...
http://www.townhall.com/News/NewsArticle.aspx?contentGUID=2df4d6f4-f6ba-4746-be81-fa852aae8646

suthrnqt

i have been hot about this all day. i heard about it on the radio today for the first time. i was soo MAD....pissed is really the word. i contemplated starting a thread too.

the sad thing is, he's still going to be on the air. in 2 weeks, nbc and cbs will have forgotten all about this and he will be right back to offending different ethnic and relgious groups. it's one thing to call a politician a weasel, but it's an entirely different thing to attack someone's ethnicity and the physical characteristics common to that ethnicity; not to mention the incredible disrespet he showed by called those women "ho's", just because the majority of the girls on the team were black. he just assumed it would be "funny" to call them "nappy-headed ho's". those girls trained hard and earned their way all the way to the finals, only to have their hard work repaid with that ugly statement.
i don't tink that he is sincere in his apology either. if nbc wasn't breathing down his neck, he wouldn't have given what he said another thought; i mean, it took him 2 days to apologize.

JerseyCurl72

This whole deal is so wrong on so many levels...

Imus made that statement almost a week ago. It wasn't until it made its way into mainstream media, and Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson got involved that NBC and CBS acted at all.

In all of this, I'd like to mention that Rutgers is not an easy school to get into, not easy to play hoops and keep your grades up, and not easy to EXCEL at it the way these young women did. So in what way are these women 'ho's'? I'd like Don Imus to describe what is a Ho. And why are more people not asking this question?

Here's the ugly conclusion that I draw from this: for every one person that was offended, there is one other person that actually thought this was funny. That making jokes about nappy headed ho's was worth a chuckle. That's why, I suspect, that NBC and CBS waited to take action. They know it too. The guy brings in ratings, and he books upper echelon "Politico" guests. (I like to call them the Sunday Morning Gassbags) When the people like Chris Matthews, Joe Lieberman, and John McCain start declining invitations to appear on his show, I'll be impressed. I'm not holding my breath for this to happen.

Don Imus is just another reminder that race and standards of beauty in this country are still warped.

wild_sasparilla

jerseycrl72 wrote:

This whole deal is so wrong on so many levels...

Imus made that statement almost a week ago. It wasn't until it made its way into mainstream media, and Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson got involved that NBC and CBS acted at all.

In all of this, I'd like to mention that Rutgers is not an easy school to get into, not easy to play hoops and keep your grades up, and not easy to EXCEL at it the way these young women did. So in what way are these women 'ho's'? I'd like Don Imus to describe what is a Ho. And why are more people not asking this question?

Here's the ugly conclusion that I draw from this: for every one person that was offended, there is one other person that actually thought this was funny. That making jokes about nappy headed ho's was worth a chuckle. That's why, I suspect, that NBC and CBS waited to take action. They know it too. The guy brings in ratings, and he books upper echelon "Politico" guests. (I like to call them the Sunday Morning Gassbags) When the people like Chris Matthews, Joe Lieberman, and John McCain start declining invitations to appear on his show, I'll be impressed. I'm not holding my breath for this to happen.

Don Imus is just another reminder that race and standards of beauty in this country are still warped.

I agree, and find the bolded true, but disturbing. I just don't understand how this kind of base insult can be found funny, but I know people do...what's worse, I've met people who probably do. :shock:

I'm glad I'll never understand this crap.

wilykat

first they were hardcore ho's then nappy headed. what happened to his co-worker who made the first comment about them being hardcore ho's. why is it that women must always be made into ho's (and b*tches), nappy headed or not, if they are successful, assertive and confident. If they are passive, docile and overexerting their sexuality they are still refered to as b*tches and ho's. a woman cannot win for losing in the american media.

wilykat

Wicked*Rosy

MSNBC just announced they're dropping Imus for good. Now, for the radio stations to folllow suit. One can hope.

Suburbanbushbabe

Wicked*Rosy wrote:

MSNBC just announced they're dropping Imus for good. Now, for the radio stations to folllow suit. One can hope.

Only the simulcast is what I read. Needs to go farther.

mariag002

My hair is "nappy" and I absolutely love it. Its too bad that people will take our characteristics and make it seem negative. What I didn't like was him using the word "Ho's" What was that all about? :roll:

I don't know if he should be fired, but he should think before speaking. :shock:

witchcurlgirl

i'm sorry but even though the guy is an idiot...we do have a 1st ammendment.....if someone offends you....don't listen

mariag002

Yeah of course and I truly believe in freedom of speech. I don't listen to talk shows, just heard it word of mouth like probably most people have. I can't turn the dial if I'm not listening to his show in the first place. If it wasn't all over the media I wouldn't have even known about it. He's a wrinkly old guy trying to sound cool by saying the word "ho's" LOL

witchcurlgirl

You're right.....he's gotten more publicity out of this than he ever had before in his career.

If people are angry, they should be angry about the 'hos part. Calling somebody nappy as an insult is totally ridiculous.

Calling girls 'hos is another issue, but it seems to be so common now. I hear that word way too often. And too many young girls don't get pissed about it.

zeldagoblin

It's like so many other common sayings we are supposed to get used to. Chris Moyles recently came under criticism for saying something was "gay" when he meant it was stupid. So, we are meant to accept that the word "gay" can be used to belittle someone now. A reflection on what people REALLY think about gay people.

I agree with the "ho's" part, and why no one seems to be slating the first guy who referred to the women as "hardcore ho's". Too much complacency about this sort of thing.

wilykat

i totally disagree that someone calling a black person's head nappy is not insulting. For that record, the term nappy did not originate with the black community but it is a derogatory racial slur used by whites to descibe the "natuarally curly" texture of AA hair. my hair is not nappy. it is not unmanagable. it is not ugly. it is not peazy. it is curly. and i am not in denial. when i pull out a strand of hair it curls, it does not nap.

Imus totally insulted those women by calling them ho's. his partner said it first and he had to up the ante by insulting their heritage as well as their feminity.

there is the right to say whatever you want but that doesn't mean that there is the right for others to not condemn what is said.

wilykat

JerseyCurl72

zeldagoblin wrote:

It's like so many other common sayings we are supposed to get used to. Chris Moyles recently came under criticism for saying something was "gay" when he meant it was stupid. So, we are meant to accept that the word "gay" can be used to belittle someone now. A reflection on what people REALLY think about gay people.

I agree with the "ho's" part, and why no one seems to be slating the first guy who referred to the women as "hardcore ho's". Too much complacency about this sort of thing.

I just found out that in addition to Imus being fired, that sidekick also got the ax. Apparently, he is another one with a history of making horrible comments.

As for firing Imus and the First Amendment, keep in mind that the first amendment protects citizens speech from persecution from the government, not private employers. NBC and CBS have a right to take action against an employee that violates company policy, and that includes what they broadcast. Having said that, I'm torn on the firing. I like the idea of his actions forcing us to shine floodlights on how some people in this country think about race, beauty, virtue and femininity. Silencing the speaker doesn't necessarily change the way some people think. As I said in an earlier post, I am much more interested in the people out there, who deep down thought this was funny.

When I was 14, a boy in my class called me "Spear Chucker", when i was 16, another boy told me to get to "the back of the bus"... What sucked the most was the people around him who laughed. I think of Imus as a symptom of a silent disease in this country. I'm kinda glad he got us talking about it.

mariag002

Race relations are always a hard thing to talk about. I can't say if the firing was justified or not. I guess what's done is done.

On a brighter note, hearing "nappy headed..." made me want to run to the store and get a relaxer LOLOLOL I didn't do it though. I'm very proud of my beautiful curls or whatever anybody wants to call them. But if you call me a ho then its on :P

kdcreigh

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:58 pm Post subject:

---

i totally disagree that someone calling a black person's head nappy is not insulting. For that record, the term nappy did not originate with the black community but it is a derogatory racial slur used by whites to descibe the "natuarally curly" texture of AA hair. my hair is not nappy. it is not unmanagable. it is not ugly. it is not peazy. it is curly. and i am not in denial. when i pull out a strand of hair it curls, it does not nap.

Imus totally insulted those women by calling them ho's. his partner said it first and he had to up the ante by insulting their heritage as well as their feminity.

there is the right to say whatever you want but that doesn't mean that there is the right for others to not condemn what is said.

wilykat

Wilykat, I totally agree!

My husband is Irish and he and I had a talk about the history of the word 'nappy' as a result of the Imus fiasco. He knew that it was an insult, but didn't realize how much of an insult until I explained to him that it was historically used to degrade African heritage.

As far as the 'hos' comment, to me this is almost as much of an insult as 'nappy.' This word is thrown around far too much in this society by all different ethnic groups, but specifically in the African American community. It shows a profound lack of respect for women in general.

ETA: For the record, I'm sure that Imus meant it as a joke and was unaware of how ignorant his comments were. That being said, we are all accountable for our words and actions.

Yes, the first amendment grants us freedom of speech. He had every right to say what he said, and he was not persecuted by the government because of it. He is being persecuted by those members of society who were offended by his comments. And his private-sector employer chose to fire him as a result of his comments.

Suburbanbushbabe

witchcurlgirl wrote:

i'm sorry but even though the guy is an idiot...we do have a 1st ammendment.....if someone offends you....don't listen

I am so glad his sponsors (except Bigelow tea which I will never purchase again) thought differently and pulled out. Money talks, and Imus walks!

Suburbanbushbabe

DP

Suburbanbushbabe

Suburbanbushbabe wrote:

kdcreigh wrote:

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:58 pm Post subject:

ETA: For the record, I'm sure that Imus meant it as a joke and was unaware of how ignorant his comments were. That being said, we are all accountable for our words and actions.

Yes, the first amendment grants us freedom of speech. He had every right to say what he said, and he was not persecuted by the government because of it. He is being persecuted by those members of society who were offended by his comments. And his private-sector employer chose to fire him as a result of his comments.

I think Imus knew exactly what he was doing. This is a consummate professional who has run a show for many years. He has a history of this stuff. I'm not going to fall for "unawareness" on this one. He has been crossing the line for years and knew it -- asking forgiveness not permission -- and getting away with this. Only thing he misjudged this time was how far his sponsors would let him go.

Diversity changes everything, as Jack Beatty said this morning on NPR's On Point. Ken Chennault, the President of American Express, pulled sponsorship from the Imus show. But you don't have to be Black/African American CEO to be offended, just a person with a sense of decency. And I'm glad that decency won here.

These woman are winners, achievers, competitive stars and future leaders. They are someone's beloved daughter, sister, wife, mother. They are not nappyheaded ho's any more than Imus' wife is a skanky redneck slut.

Kaia

witchcurlgirl wrote:

If people are angry, they should be angry about the 'hos part. Calling somebody nappy as an insult is totally ridiculous.

Calling girls 'hos is another issue, but it seems to be so common now. I hear that word way too often. And too many young girls don't get pissed about it.

I disagree with this logic.

1) Many people of color do find the term "nappy" offensive. As a white person, I have no place saying whether they should find it offensive or not. Some find it offensive, and that's good enough for me.

2) By putting the two words together, he creates a whole extra level of meaning to his statement. Sure calling women ho's is wrong in its own right. But by adding a racially-motivated insult, he is implying that black women are ho's. His statement is not only insulting to women, but very much racially motivated. There's a reason why hate crimes carry larger punishments than the same crime would without race being a factor. In this situation, there's also a very good reason why people are making a bigger deal out of his statement that someone else randomly calling a woman a ho.

kdcreigh

I think Imus knew exactly what he was doing. This is a consummate professional who has run a show for many years. He has a history of this stuff. I'm not going to fall for "unawareness" on this one. He has been crossing the line for years and knew it -- asking forgiveness not permission -- and getting away with this. Only thing he misjudged this time was how far his sponsors would let him go.

Suburban,
You have a point. I'm not really familiar with Imus' show since I live in Chicago. And I rarely listen to the radio.

These woman are winners, achievers, competitive stars and future leaders. They are someone's beloved daughter, sister, wife, mother. They are not nappyheaded ho's any more than Imus' wife is a skanky redneck slut.

I totally agree with you. When I first heard his comments I was instantly offended and had flashbacks to my childhood and college years. I then though about what he said and figured that as a white male he most likely wouldn't understand the depth of feeling that African Americans associate with those words when they are uttered by a white person.
Believe me, I'm not defending him at all. I think that what he said was outrageous and he should be punished for it in some way. But I also think that he should be educated.

Sometimes I hate living in a Democracy. We have to hear comments like his. But, on the other hand, we can express our outrage at these comments.

witchcurlgirl

Bailey422 wrote:

witchcurlgirl wrote:

If people are angry, they should be angry about the 'hos part. Calling somebody nappy as an insult is totally ridiculous.

Calling girls 'hos is another issue, but it seems to be so common now. I hear that word way too often. And too many young girls don't get pissed about it.

I disagree with this logic.

1) Many people of color do find the term "nappy" offensive. As a white person, I have no place saying whether they should find it offensive or not. Some find it offensive, and that's good enough for me.

2) By putting the two words together, he creates a whole extra level of meaning to his statement. Sure calling women ho's is wrong in its own right. But by adding a racially-motivated insult, he is implying that black women are ho's. His statement is not only insulting to women, but very much racially motivated. There's a reason why hate crimes carry larger punishments than the same crime would without race being a factor. In this situation, there's also a very good reason why people are making a bigger deal out of his statement that someone else randomly calling a woman a ho.

Isn't it great being able to disagree....God bless America....Including the first ammendment

Just be aware that someone that offended you has been silenced.....what happens next time they silence someone

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Pastor Martin Niemöller

Kaia

witchcurlgirl wrote:

Just be aware that someone that offended you has been silenced.....what happens next time they silence someone

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Pastor Martin Niemöller

:shock: :shock: :shock:

I am speechless.

You have got to be kidding me.

Can't you understand the difference between government censorship and someone being kicked off the air because what he says offends the general public? It's really not that complicated of a distinction. :? Nobody is silencing him. He is free to continue his racist blabbering on a street corner, just not on the air. Do you get mad everytime a show gets cancelled when people no longer want to see/listen to it?

And I can't believe you have the nerve to compare the holocaust and the like to a man spouting off racial slurs. :shock: People like him are the ones that cause the problems described in your poem.

witchcurlgirl

No darling...I am not kidding you...

Free speech applies to all things...even if we think that its wrong....it's a slippery slope

And yes, I understand that people silenced this man and not the government....however, I don't believe in censorship at all

I don't like what he said...i think he's an idiot.....but I don't like a lot of things that are said....like on FOX news.....but I'm not asking anyone to silence people that I think are fools.

As for comparing the Holocaust to this.....my point was about silencing people...if you silence one, then where does it end. Free speech is the first right that is lost when a society is losing its freedom.

Dont listen to the man, don't buy products from his sponsers.......but dont be happy that someone was silenced. It has ramifications that are too frightening to even think about.

We either have complete freedom of speech...or we don't have freedom.

Kaia

Ok good. Next time I see someone yelling about how we shough send all the N

---

s back to cotton plantations and lynch the ones that resist, I'll let them know they have your support. :roll:

I personally will continue to stand against racism and those who continue to perpetuate it.

witchcurlgirl

Bailey422 wrote:

Ok good. Next time I see someone yelling about how we shough send all the N

---

s back to cotton plantations and lynch the ones that resist, I'll let them know they have your support.

Please dont put words in my mouth. I did not use the words N

---

s or lynching.

I never said I agreed with what he said....I was quite clear about thinking he's an ass.....but I believe in FREE SPEECH....not just free speech for people that agree with me.

You have a nice day.

wilykat

witchcurlgirl,

i don't think this is a freedom of speech issue. no one is silencing him. he got fired because he stepped way out of line. i am a school teacher and if i say something that is innappropriate to a parent, student, even co-worker i run the risk of getting fired. no one said that he cannot say what he said they just said what he said is wrong and should not be tolerated. the same thing would happen to me if i called a kid stupid. if his parents got upset and demand that i be fired for insulting their kid and gathered enough support there is a good chance that i would be fired. is anyone silencing me? no. i can still call all the kids stupid i want. i just won't be able to call that particular kid stupid and have his particular classmates and parents be disturbed by it.

your words have the potiential to have ramifications. if i were to walk into an airport and say i have a bomb i would immediately be arrested. but what if i were joking? it wouldn't matter because the words i said have deep connotations, esp. in the post 9/11 world we live in. is arresting me silencing me and infringing on my right to freedom of speech? i don't think so but maybe you do. he said something stupid, yes he has the right to do that but his bosses also have the right to can his ass for what he said.

wilykat

Kaia

wilykat wrote:

witchcurlgirl,

i don't think this is a freedom of speech issue. no one is silencing him. he got fired because he stepped way out of line. i am a school teacher and if i say something that is innappropriate to a parent, student, even co-worker i run the risk of getting fired. no one said that he cannot say what he said they just said what he said is wrong and should not be tolerated. the same thing would happen to me if i called a kid stupid. if his parents got upset and demand that i be fired for insulting their kid and gathered enough support there is a good chance that i would be fired. is anyone silencing me? no. i can still call all the kids stupid i want. i just won't be able to call that particular kid stupid and have his particular classmates and parents be disturbed by it.

your words have the potiential to have ramifications. if i were to walk into an airport and say i have a bomb i would immediately be arrested. but what if i were joking? it wouldn't matter because the words i said have deep connotations, esp. in the post 9/11 world we live in. is arresting me silencing me and infringing on my right to freedom of speech? i don't think so but maybe you do. he said something stupid, yes he has the right to do that but his bosses also have the right to can his ass for what he said.

wilykat

Exactly! Legally, he has the right to say whatever he wants. Nobody is throwing him in jail for this, and I don't think they should. However, he said something completely inappropriate, and the rest of us have every right to be outraged and demand he be fired. The media is influenced by all of us, not just the few people that are on it.

wild_sasparilla

Bailey422 wrote:

witchcurlgirl wrote:

Just be aware that someone that offended you has been silenced.....what happens next time they silence someone

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Pastor Martin Niemöller

:shock: :shock: :shock:

I am speechless.

You have got to be kidding me.

Can't you understand the difference between government censorship and someone being kicked off the air because what he says offends the general public? It's really not that complicated of a distinction. :? Nobody is silencing him. He is free to continue his racist blabbering on a street corner, just not on the air. Do you get mad everytime a show gets cancelled when people no longer want to see/listen to it?

And I can't believe you have the nerve to compare the holocaust and the like to a man spouting off racial slurs. :shock: People like him are the ones that cause the problems described in your poem.

ITA. What a sad misuse of a brilliant poem. Being Jewish, Communist, or a trade unionist does not imply that you are saying or doing anything at all with the motive of damaging the image, livelihood or anything else of another person. Imus did say something that was very denigrating to the image of the girls he spoke about; and he was not "silenced," just as others have said.

saronbella

It's funny how people are getting all fired up about Don Imus and his use of the word ho. Yet, I'm sure that many of the women who are upset about his comment listen to c.d.'s that use that word profusely. It's extremely common especially in hip hop. If everyone is pissed at Don Imus then they should be upset at Snoop Dogg,Jay-Z, and Ludacris as well and I don't see anyone picketing their music. As far as firing is Imus is concerned, I think it was extreme that they fired him. What does it prove?Millions of people are as racist as he is.The only difference between them and him is that he actually said what he thought out loud. You can't "cure" a racist.You either are or aren't one.There is no gray area. Firing this man isn't going to change what he thinks of black women.

zeldagoblin

Saronbella, I agree with what you say about the word "ho" being considered acceptable by people, specially those who listen to the genre you describe. But, I think you're missing the point of his being fired. No one is saying that firing him was his punishment, or an attempt to cure this man of racism. But a reputable radio station can't be seen to condone that kind of opinion, so firing him was, in fact, necessary. If they hadn't, that would have been taken by the masses as tacit approval or his comments. I think his expulsion was the ONLY option. Anything less would have been outragous, in my opinion.

Just because America celebrates free speech doesn't mean that people should be surprised when their inflammatory opinions, when voiced, bring them unpleasant consequences.