Hair is dry, frizzy and repelling water

snowpuffssnowpuffs Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Posts: 31 Curl Novice
edited March 2018 in Information for Newbies
Accidental triple post

Answers

  • bomegabomega Registered Users Posts: 1,355 Curl Virtuoso
    edited March 2018
    @snowpuffs,

    To remove non-water-soluable silicones, you need to use a suitable clarifying shampoo that does not contain silicones. To identify non-water-soluabe silicones, please see this thread: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2014/04/silicone-ingredient-solubility-list.html (BTW, she identifies exceptions like amodimethicone, but in your case you really should avoid those exceptions too - they really aren't as great as she makes them out to be, and are drying as well.)

    That Aphogee shampoo you are using has a silicone. So when you used it, you just deposited more silicone along with using a drying sulfate shampoo. Then you used a conditioner to pile on the silicone. It really should come as no surprise that then you apply a moisturizer that just stays on top without moisturizing. Basically you have been on a silicone-sulfate treadmill. It is no wonder your hair has been getting worse and worse the more you use these products. Some people do report using silicones with positive results. Clearly you are not one of those people.

    You need either a sulfate shampoo or a sulfate-free shampoo with a clarifying agent like C14-16 olefin sulfonate. In your other thread, you listed the SAIYA shampoo and the ingredients - that one is silicone free and has a sulfate to remove the existing silicones. I also explained how you can do a DT. 
    Low-poo: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Shampoo for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Coconut & Shea Hydrating Shampoo
    Clarify: Kinky Curly Come Clean
    Rinse-out: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Conditioner for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Everyday Coconut Ultra Hydrating Conditioner
    DT: Camille Rose Naturals Algae Renew Deep Conditioner
    Leave-in: As I Am Leave-in
    Styler: Lily of the Desert 99% Aloe Vera Gelly
    Treatment: Daily tea spray; Coconut oil overnight treatment; Citric acid rinse for hard water; 2-step Henndigo w/ amla to cover gray

    2C, fine, low porosity, low/medium density, protein sensitive

    Looking for styling products and tools

    iHerb Code KQS149 for 5% off your order
  • snowpuffssnowpuffs Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Posts: 31 Curl Novice
    bomega said:
    @snowpuffs,

    To remove non-water-soluable silicones, you need to use a suitable clarifying shampoo that does not contain silicones. To identify non-water-soluabe silicones, please see this thread: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2014/04/silicone-ingredient-solubility-list.html (BTW, she identifies exceptions like amodimethicone, but in your case you really should avoid those exceptions too - they really aren't as great as she makes them out to be, and are drying as well.)

    That Aphogee shampoo you are using has a silicone. So when you used it, you just deposited more silicone along with using a drying sulfate shampoo. Then you used a conditioner to pile on the silicone. It really should come as no surprise that then you apply a moisturizer that just stays on top without moisturizing. Basically you have been on a silicone-sulfate treadmill. It is no wonder your hair has been getting worse and worse the more you use these products. Some people do report using silicones with positive results. Clearly you are not one of those people.

    You need either a sulfate shampoo or a sulfate-free shampoo with a clarifying agent like C14-16 olefin sulfonate. In your other thread, you listed the SAIYA shampoo and the ingredients - that one is silicone free and has a sulfate to remove the existing silicones. I also explained how you can do a DT. 
    Don't know how I got a triple post on this forum in different sections, but thanks
  • bomegabomega Registered Users Posts: 1,355 Curl Virtuoso
    snowpuffs said:
    bomega said:
    @snowpuffs,

    To remove non-water-soluable silicones, you need to use a suitable clarifying shampoo that does not contain silicones. To identify non-water-soluabe silicones, please see this thread: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2014/04/silicone-ingredient-solubility-list.html (BTW, she identifies exceptions like amodimethicone, but in your case you really should avoid those exceptions too - they really aren't as great as she makes them out to be, and are drying as well.)

    That Aphogee shampoo you are using has a silicone. So when you used it, you just deposited more silicone along with using a drying sulfate shampoo. Then you used a conditioner to pile on the silicone. It really should come as no surprise that then you apply a moisturizer that just stays on top without moisturizing. Basically you have been on a silicone-sulfate treadmill. It is no wonder your hair has been getting worse and worse the more you use these products. Some people do report using silicones with positive results. Clearly you are not one of those people.

    You need either a sulfate shampoo or a sulfate-free shampoo with a clarifying agent like C14-16 olefin sulfonate. In your other thread, you listed the SAIYA shampoo and the ingredients - that one is silicone free and has a sulfate to remove the existing silicones. I also explained how you can do a DT. 
    Don't know how I got a triple post on this forum in different sections, but thanks
    Ugh - weird about the triple post. I thought you had just reposted the same question. But actually, Curltalk has had a lot of weird bugs on it. This isn't the first time this has happened.

    Anyway, how is it going?
    Low-poo: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Shampoo for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Coconut & Shea Hydrating Shampoo
    Clarify: Kinky Curly Come Clean
    Rinse-out: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Conditioner for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Everyday Coconut Ultra Hydrating Conditioner
    DT: Camille Rose Naturals Algae Renew Deep Conditioner
    Leave-in: As I Am Leave-in
    Styler: Lily of the Desert 99% Aloe Vera Gelly
    Treatment: Daily tea spray; Coconut oil overnight treatment; Citric acid rinse for hard water; 2-step Henndigo w/ amla to cover gray

    2C, fine, low porosity, low/medium density, protein sensitive

    Looking for styling products and tools

    iHerb Code KQS149 for 5% off your order
  • snowpuffssnowpuffs Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Posts: 31 Curl Novice
    bomega said:
    snowpuffs said:
    bomega said:
    @snowpuffs,

    To remove non-water-soluable silicones, you need to use a suitable clarifying shampoo that does not contain silicones. To identify non-water-soluabe silicones, please see this thread: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2014/04/silicone-ingredient-solubility-list.html (BTW, she identifies exceptions like amodimethicone, but in your case you really should avoid those exceptions too - they really aren't as great as she makes them out to be, and are drying as well.)

    That Aphogee shampoo you are using has a silicone. So when you used it, you just deposited more silicone along with using a drying sulfate shampoo. Then you used a conditioner to pile on the silicone. It really should come as no surprise that then you apply a moisturizer that just stays on top without moisturizing. Basically you have been on a silicone-sulfate treadmill. It is no wonder your hair has been getting worse and worse the more you use these products. Some people do report using silicones with positive results. Clearly you are not one of those people.

    You need either a sulfate shampoo or a sulfate-free shampoo with a clarifying agent like C14-16 olefin sulfonate. In your other thread, you listed the SAIYA shampoo and the ingredients - that one is silicone free and has a sulfate to remove the existing silicones. I also explained how you can do a DT. 
    Don't know how I got a triple post on this forum in different sections, but thanks
    Ugh - weird about the triple post. I thought you had just reposted the same question. But actually, Curltalk has had a lot of weird bugs on it. This isn't the first time this has happened.

    Anyway, how is it going?
    Good. I'm looking to Shea Moisture for products that will work for my hair.
  • bomegabomega Registered Users Posts: 1,355 Curl Virtuoso
    Good idea. Might I suggest trying the Coconut Hibiscus line? A lot of different hair types seem to get at least some improvement from these. Possibly because they contain silk protein which benefit many different hair types for different reasons. Once upon a time before my hair became protein sensitive, my hair *loved* the SM CH Shampoo, Conditioner, and Style Milk.
    Low-poo: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Shampoo for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Coconut & Shea Hydrating Shampoo
    Clarify: Kinky Curly Come Clean
    Rinse-out: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Conditioner for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Everyday Coconut Ultra Hydrating Conditioner
    DT: Camille Rose Naturals Algae Renew Deep Conditioner
    Leave-in: As I Am Leave-in
    Styler: Lily of the Desert 99% Aloe Vera Gelly
    Treatment: Daily tea spray; Coconut oil overnight treatment; Citric acid rinse for hard water; 2-step Henndigo w/ amla to cover gray

    2C, fine, low porosity, low/medium density, protein sensitive

    Looking for styling products and tools

    iHerb Code KQS149 for 5% off your order
  • snowpuffssnowpuffs Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Posts: 31 Curl Novice
    bomega said:
    Good idea. Might I suggest trying the Coconut Hibiscus line? A lot of different hair types seem to get at least some improvement from these. Possibly because they contain silk protein which benefit many different hair types for different reasons. Once upon a time before my hair became protein sensitive, my hair *loved* the SM CH Shampoo, Conditioner, and Style Milk.
    I will keep that one in mind. Right now it's more of a question of if my hair has ever been able to stand protein or not, but the silicones probably skewed my view on that. I'm going to need to replace most of my hair products, so I feel like researching several products before trying out one.
  • bomegabomega Registered Users Posts: 1,355 Curl Virtuoso
    edited March 2018
    That makes sense. If you want to add data to your research, try determining your hair properties, especially your hair width, porosity, and maybe density. These three properties play a major role in what types of products and techniques will more likely work with your hair. You can try the Texture quiz: https://www.naturallycurly.com/quiz. This might help too, especially for porosity (which is notoriously elusive to figure out): http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2013/07/diy-hair-analysis.html

    The tricky thing is that the silicone currently on your hair may skew the analysis/tests, especially for the porosity.

    BTW, in case you haven't figured it out, I really think the Sciency Hair Blog is a great place to do hair research. :)
    Low-poo: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Shampoo for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Coconut & Shea Hydrating Shampoo
    Clarify: Kinky Curly Come Clean
    Rinse-out: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Conditioner for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Everyday Coconut Ultra Hydrating Conditioner
    DT: Camille Rose Naturals Algae Renew Deep Conditioner
    Leave-in: As I Am Leave-in
    Styler: Lily of the Desert 99% Aloe Vera Gelly
    Treatment: Daily tea spray; Coconut oil overnight treatment; Citric acid rinse for hard water; 2-step Henndigo w/ amla to cover gray

    2C, fine, low porosity, low/medium density, protein sensitive

    Looking for styling products and tools

    iHerb Code KQS149 for 5% off your order
  • snowpuffssnowpuffs Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Posts: 31 Curl Novice
    bomega said:
    That makes sense. If you want to add data to your research, try determining your hair properties, especially your hair width, porosity, and maybe density. These three properties play a major role in what types of products and techniques will more likely work with your hair. You can try the Texture quiz: https://www.naturallycurly.com/quiz. This might help too, especially for porosity (which is notoriously elusive to figure out): http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2013/07/diy-hair-analysis.html

    The tricky thing is that the silicone currently on your hair may skew the analysis/tests, especially for the porosity.

    BTW, in case you haven't figured it out, I really think the Sciency Hair Blog is a great place to do hair research. :)
    The test came back with high density, low porosity and medium strand thickness. I'll try out the low porosity line alongside the raw shea butter Sea kelp masque for process of elimination purposes.
  • bomegabomega Registered Users Posts: 1,355 Curl Virtuoso
    The SM LP line sounds like a good idea. Double check the Raw Shea Butter masque you pick up. They have different formulations of this one (don't know why) and one that has bentonite clay in it. Clay is a great cleanser for the hair, but if you are struggling with dryness, it might work against you until your hair recovers. I think the Raw Shea Butter+Cupuacu masque is more moisturizing and is protein free.
    Low-poo: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Shampoo for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Coconut & Shea Hydrating Shampoo
    Clarify: Kinky Curly Come Clean
    Rinse-out: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Conditioner for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Everyday Coconut Ultra Hydrating Conditioner
    DT: Camille Rose Naturals Algae Renew Deep Conditioner
    Leave-in: As I Am Leave-in
    Styler: Lily of the Desert 99% Aloe Vera Gelly
    Treatment: Daily tea spray; Coconut oil overnight treatment; Citric acid rinse for hard water; 2-step Henndigo w/ amla to cover gray

    2C, fine, low porosity, low/medium density, protein sensitive

    Looking for styling products and tools

    iHerb Code KQS149 for 5% off your order
  • snowpuffssnowpuffs Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Posts: 31 Curl Novice
    bomega said:
    The SM LP line sounds like a good idea. Double check the Raw Shea Butter masque you pick up. They have different formulations of this one (don't know why) and one that has bentonite clay in it. Clay is a great cleanser for the hair, but if you are struggling with dryness, it might work against you until your hair recovers. I think the Raw Shea Butter+Cupuacu masque is more moisturizing and is protein free.
    The cheapest I could find was the sea kelp variation :/
  • bomegabomega Registered Users Posts: 1,355 Curl Virtuoso
    Hey, saw your post on my wall...awesome it's working out! So, have you tried the Raw Shea Butter Masque? What's it like? I'm actually looking around for a DT. I'm currently using Camille Rose Naturals Algae Treatment, but I really would like something richer. I might start adding oil to this one to bump it up, but I want to try something new when it runs out.
    Low-poo: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Shampoo for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Coconut & Shea Hydrating Shampoo
    Clarify: Kinky Curly Come Clean
    Rinse-out: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Conditioner for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Everyday Coconut Ultra Hydrating Conditioner
    DT: Camille Rose Naturals Algae Renew Deep Conditioner
    Leave-in: As I Am Leave-in
    Styler: Lily of the Desert 99% Aloe Vera Gelly
    Treatment: Daily tea spray; Coconut oil overnight treatment; Citric acid rinse for hard water; 2-step Henndigo w/ amla to cover gray

    2C, fine, low porosity, low/medium density, protein sensitive

    Looking for styling products and tools

    iHerb Code KQS149 for 5% off your order
  • snowpuffssnowpuffs Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Posts: 31 Curl Novice
    edited March 2018
    bomega said:
    Hey, saw your post on my wall...awesome it's working out! So, have you tried the Raw Shea Butter Masque? What's it like? I'm actually looking around for a DT. I'm currently using Camille Rose Naturals Algae Treatment, but I really would like something richer. I might start adding oil to this one to bump it up, but I want to try something new when it runs out.
    I went with the sea kelp & argan oil mix sold by Beauty by Zara, mainly for the price alongside the other low porosity products. I noted that this might be working for me because I have low porosity hair (from the looks of things) and the argan is able to penatrate.

    For some reason my hair can only take 15 minutes of the hooded dryer before it starts feeling dry, but that was all I adjusted from your advice.

    Things are looking good so far!

    Edit: My version has hydrolyzed vegetable protein, so it might not do much good for you. Had a lot of negative reviews though, so watch out for those (looks like you should only buy the orange version of this creamy DT if you want to try this, which is what I have)
  • bomegabomega Registered Users Posts: 1,355 Curl Virtuoso
    Your hair may have just want less time under the dryer, but it is also possible the protein in your masque isn't helping it. Even some low porosity people report that larger proteins make their hair seem dry (the soy protein in the popular Giovanni line seems to do this). Maybe next time you DT, use the SM Low Porosity Condition as your DT (no need to go over 30 minutes) and see if that helps. 
    Low-poo: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Shampoo for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Coconut & Shea Hydrating Shampoo
    Clarify: Kinky Curly Come Clean
    Rinse-out: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Conditioner for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Everyday Coconut Ultra Hydrating Conditioner
    DT: Camille Rose Naturals Algae Renew Deep Conditioner
    Leave-in: As I Am Leave-in
    Styler: Lily of the Desert 99% Aloe Vera Gelly
    Treatment: Daily tea spray; Coconut oil overnight treatment; Citric acid rinse for hard water; 2-step Henndigo w/ amla to cover gray

    2C, fine, low porosity, low/medium density, protein sensitive

    Looking for styling products and tools

    iHerb Code KQS149 for 5% off your order
  • snowpuffssnowpuffs Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Posts: 31 Curl Novice
    bomega said:
    Your hair may have just want less time under the dryer, but it is also possible the protein in your masque isn't helping it. Even some low porosity people report that larger proteins make their hair seem dry (the soy protein in the popular Giovanni line seems to do this). Maybe next time you DT, use the SM Low Porosity Condition as your DT (no need to go over 30 minutes) and see if that helps. 
    Alright. I guess I'll just kick protein for now then. Results so far have been getting better though I'm happy to say. My hair might have been dry a majority of my life, because now I'm seeing actual defined curls in my once thought to be 4c hair. So thanks again.
  • bomegabomega Registered Users Posts: 1,355 Curl Virtuoso
    edited March 2018
    Good news that your efforts are paying off. :) Yeah, a lot of curlies have gone through this dryness because most products and techniques we learned forever aren't really designed for curly hair. Luckily things have been changing a while and now better information about curly hair is becoming more mainstream, along with more acceptance to natural hair textures. 

    But to be clear, I meant more to just give it a try to give up protein and see what happens. With curly hair, experimentation really is the name of the game. In addition, it is also possible that maybe your hair benefits now from giving up protein but later needs a little. 
    Low-poo: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Shampoo for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Coconut & Shea Hydrating Shampoo
    Clarify: Kinky Curly Come Clean
    Rinse-out: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Conditioner for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Everyday Coconut Ultra Hydrating Conditioner
    DT: Camille Rose Naturals Algae Renew Deep Conditioner
    Leave-in: As I Am Leave-in
    Styler: Lily of the Desert 99% Aloe Vera Gelly
    Treatment: Daily tea spray; Coconut oil overnight treatment; Citric acid rinse for hard water; 2-step Henndigo w/ amla to cover gray

    2C, fine, low porosity, low/medium density, protein sensitive

    Looking for styling products and tools

    iHerb Code KQS149 for 5% off your order
  • snowpuffssnowpuffs Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Posts: 31 Curl Novice
    bomega said:
    Good news that your efforts are paying off. :) Yeah, a lot of curlies have gone through this dryness because most products and techniques we learned forever aren't really designed for curly hair. Luckily things have been changing a while and now better information about curly hair is becoming more mainstream, along with more acceptance to natural hair textures. 

    But to be clear, I meant more to just give it a try to give up protein and see what happens. With curly hair, experimentation really is the name of the game. In addition, it is also possible that maybe your hair benefits now from giving up protein but later needs a little. 
    Alright. Lrotein when I need it sounds easy enough.

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