Coarse, Porous, Desert Climate, Hard Water

BeachLoverInNMBeachLoverInNM Posts: 20Registered Users Curl Neophyte
These are some of my challenges. Others include: multiple textures/curl patterns; graying hair; chemically highlighted. My hair is extremely dry and frizzy. I have been trying to be CG for a number of years now. Just about the time I think I have figured it out either the season changes or the products I have been using quit working or I try something new and mess everything up, etc. I have spent more time than I care to admit reading this web site and many others, watching innumerable videos on YouTube, and trying products. To say I am frustrated would be an understatement. 

ANYWAY, I am still trying to find products that work on my hair. I am trying to avoid glycerin, silicones and aloe vera. My hair seems to like some protein. I would prefer something I can buy locally (Sally Beauty, Ulta, Natural Grocers, Target, etc.) rather than order on-line. I am mainly interested in leave-in conditioner and gel recommendations. Hoping that someone who shares some of my challenges will have suggestions.  Thanks in advance!!!
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Comments

  • Curls80Curls80 Posts: 522Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Gosh I have almost the same exact issues. I know I need some layering of products, not too much protein but some.... my hair seems to like uncle funkys daughter curly magic/kccc. Kccc is aloe based but it’s at target. Those products kind of bind moisture in my hair. I also use another gel on top to give a bit more hold. I’m trying lately to include a cream or butter product or oil before those other products to work as a way to seal my high porosity hair. Oil sealing is common for high porosity hair but I think half the battle is finding the right oil. 

    You may like curl junkie pattern pusha which has no aloe but that you have to order online. I don’t know all of the products you can find at those stores (I’m in Canada) but I think the brand “not your mothers naturals” is at Ulta and the pink or purple bottles are popular. I’ve never tried those. If I have any other ideas I’ll jump back on and let you know. But I understand the problems you’re having. 

    Oh.. I love as I am cleansing pudding. It cleans my hair really well and it leaves my hair feeling silky after rinsing it. As I am hydration elation is an amazing deep conditioner as well. Those are at sally beauty.  
    3a/3b high porosity, mainly coarse, medium density
    Live in Canada- hot summers, freezing winters- dry dry dry
    As I am cleansing pudding, soultanicals deep condish, curlsmith cowash, lhdc condish 
    KCCC, curlsmith soufflé, ufdcm, mga sculpting gel 
    Scrunch with hair repear towel, then diffuse or air
    Protein- Cnpf
  • bomegabomega Posts: 1,352Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    That sounds like a tough mix. Looks like @Curls80 gave you some good ideas. Here are few more:

    Leave-ins
    - The As I Am Leave-in would work and at Target.
    - Kinky Curly Leave in detangler fits your requirements, but I wouldn't call it particularly moisturizing. Avaiable at Target.
    - Shea Moisture Coconut Hibiscus Style Milk (The Coconut Hibiscus shampoo, conditioner, and style milk are glycerin-free, but the gels aren't.)
    - Alaffia Beautiful Curls Leave-ins also meet your requirements (the gels do not.)

    Gels
    - What about Ecostyler. Available at Sally's. Double check the ingredients before you buy as there is an old version and a new version in stores. (Thanks to @Addee for the heads-up on this: https://curltalk.naturallycurly.com/discussion/comment/2394417).
    - LA Looks Sports Gel is a popular choice, also readily available.
    - Would you be up for some DIY solutions? Science-y Hair Blog Recipes and Projects
    Low-poo: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Shampoo for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Coconut & Shea Hydrating Shampoo
    Clarify: Kinky Curly Come Clean
    Rinse-out: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Conditioner for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Everyday Coconut Ultra Hydrating Conditioner
    DT: Camille Rose Naturals Algae Renew Deep Conditioner
    Leave-in: As I Am Leave-in
    Styler: Lily of the Desert 99% Aloe Vera Gelly
    Treatment: Daily tea spray; Coconut oil overnight treatment; Citric acid rinse for hard water; 2-step Henndigo w/ amla to cover gray

    2C, fine, low porosity, low/medium density, protein sensitive

    Looking for styling products and tools

    iHerb Code KQS149 for 5% off your order
  • WavyKfromNJWavyKfromNJ Posts: 654Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    edited January 18
    I think this link may also be helpful

    http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2016/03/hard-water-and-your-hair.html

    It is an article about hard water and how to deal with it.

    Sally Beauty carries Colorful Neutral Protein Filler, which is an easy way to add protein to your hair.  It also carries some of the shampoo to help manage hard water.
    2b, 2c,
    High Porosity - Very Fine Hair

    Low Poo: Living Proof Restore Shampoo
    Rinse Out: Living Proof Restore Conditioner
    Leave In: Living Proof Curl Leave-In
    Treatments: Restore Repair Leave-In, Colorful Neutral Protein Filler, Sunflower Oil Pre-poo
    Styling: Living Proof Curl Defining Styling Cream and/or Living Proof Curl Enhancing Styling Mousse
  • BeachLoverInNMBeachLoverInNM Posts: 20Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Thanks so much for the responses! 

    Curls80:  Doesn't the glycerin in the As I Am products cause problems for your hair? I can't use glycerin at all. I have tried KCCC and KCKT and didn't like either of them. I also tried the CJ Pattern Pusha and didn't care for it. I am going to Ulta today to look for the "Not Your Mother's Naturals" products you mentioned. Never heard of them! I have tried a number oils (liked olive the best) but got so carried away with it trying to tame frizz that I ended up with a terrible build up that had to be taken off with baking soda/vinegar. I finally realized that moisture means water, not oil, and I have actually been waterproofing my hair with a lot of products (most recently with a shea butter product). I am currently doing multiple bentonite clay washes trying to get all the coating off my hair. Sigh. But I know eventually I will be able to use oil again (in greater moderation).

    Bomega: See comments above about KC and As I Am. I thought all the SM products contained glycerin, but I will check out that style milk. I have actually really liked the Beautiful Curls leave-in and gel for Wavy to Curly but made the mistake of moving up to the Curly to Kinky products and YIKES--shea butter buildup big time. I have put those products aside until I get my hair clarified; I think I am going to go back to the BC Wavy to Curly products at least until I find something else I like better. I appreciate your vote for those. I have read the Ecostyler and LA Sport Gel labels before and put them down for some reason, but I will have another look. (I think I may have been intimidated by the HUGE bottles.) And yes I have been trying some DIY out of desperation. Just this morning I tried coconut milk as a leave in and YIKES it made my hair instantly hard and tangled. I guess I am one of the few that cannot use it. My only concern with DIY is traveling with things that have no preservatives, but even so I would love to find something that works even if only at home. I will check out that link.

    WavyKFromNJ: I have read that article on hard water but will look at it again. I had never heard/seen the protein filler at Sally's. I will check it out! Also, I see from your signature that you like Living Proof products. Do you think the ingredients would work for me?

    Those of you with high porosity hair: do you think that frequent rinsing with diluted ACV is bad/good? I have experimented with rinsing my hair on off days with weak ACV solution to wet and detangle my hair. I have been trying to wet my hair a lot more. I was thinking the ACV would close my cuticle, but not sure if too much will dry my hair even more.

    The one product that I really love is Giovanni Nutrafix. I use it as a rinse out but am wondering if there would be any harm in using it as a leave-in (diluted)? I tried the Direct Leave In but it seemed to make my hair frizzy. I also did not like the LA Gel.  It would be so nice to find a single line that works. I am tired of the complicated product mixing and matching and multiple layers of things, but at this point I will go with whatever works.

    Thanks again for all the responses!!!


  • Curls80Curls80 Posts: 522Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I don’t seem to have issues with glycerin in rinse out products. I just wanted to chime in on acv rinses. They’re good for high po hair. With my hair analysis I was told I can use these intermittently. I do these rinses occasionally after conditioning and leave it in for a minute then rinse my hair again. 
    3a/3b high porosity, mainly coarse, medium density
    Live in Canada- hot summers, freezing winters- dry dry dry
    As I am cleansing pudding, soultanicals deep condish, curlsmith cowash, lhdc condish 
    KCCC, curlsmith soufflé, ufdcm, mga sculpting gel 
    Scrunch with hair repear towel, then diffuse or air
    Protein- Cnpf
  • BeachLoverInNMBeachLoverInNM Posts: 20Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    At Ulta today all the "Not Your Mother's Naturals" products I found contained glycerin, as unfortunately did the SM Coconut & Hibiscus Curl and Style Milk. The formula must have changed, because glycerin is not listed in the ingredients for the product on CurlMart and other web sites. Or perhaps the bottle at Ulta was the old formula??
  • bomegabomega Posts: 1,352Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    Thanks so much for the responses! 

    <snip>

    Bomega: See comments above about KC and As I Am. I thought all the SM products contained glycerin, but I will check out that style milk. I have actually really liked the Beautiful Curls leave-in and gel for Wavy to Curly but made the mistake of moving up to the Curly to Kinky products and YIKES--shea butter buildup big time. I have put those products aside until I get my hair clarified; I think I am going to go back to the BC Wavy to Curly products at least until I find something else I like better. I appreciate your vote for those. I have read the Ecostyler and LA Sport Gel labels before and put them down for some reason, but I will have another look. (I think I may have been intimidated by the HUGE bottles.) And yes I have been trying some DIY out of desperation. Just this morning I tried coconut milk as a leave in and YIKES it made my hair instantly hard and tangled. I guess I am one of the few that cannot use it. My only concern with DIY is traveling with things that have no preservatives, but even so I would love to find something that works even if only at home. I will check out that link.

    <snip>

    The one product that I really love is Giovanni Nutrafix. I use it as a rinse out but am wondering if there would be any harm in using it as a leave-in (diluted)? I tried the Direct Leave In but it seemed to make my hair frizzy. I also did not like the LA Gel.  It would be so nice to find a single line that works. I am tired of the complicated product mixing and matching and multiple layers of things, but at this point I will go with whatever works.

    Thanks again for all the responses!!!


    You are right about the As I Am...I forgot that is why I am hesitant to try it. Thanks for the heads up about the Beautiful Curls Curly Leave-in. I was kind of curious about it because it has baobab oil and my hair responds well to that, but maybe I will avoid that one and stick to the Wavy formula. Maybe the Ecostyler and LA Looks are worth a try, but note that the LA Looks Sports Gels have parabens in them (don't know if you try to avoid.) These are both inexpensive, so it would at least not be too much of a loss if they don't work out.

    I hear you about preserving. If you were interested, here is a guide on the Sciency Hair Blog: Preserving Your Homemade Hair Gels

    The Giovanni Direct Leave-in and LA Natural Gel both have aloe in them, which maybe why your hair didn't respond (also I think this is a change...there is an older formula that doesn't have aloe.) I don't see any reason why you can't use the Giovanni Nutrafix as a Leave-in. Sounds like a great idea.

    The SM Curl and Style Milk also does not have glycerin listed on the SM website. I didn't realize the formula has changed, but maybe it is an older bottle you saw.

    Low-poo: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Shampoo for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Coconut & Shea Hydrating Shampoo
    Clarify: Kinky Curly Come Clean
    Rinse-out: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Conditioner for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Everyday Coconut Ultra Hydrating Conditioner
    DT: Camille Rose Naturals Algae Renew Deep Conditioner
    Leave-in: As I Am Leave-in
    Styler: Lily of the Desert 99% Aloe Vera Gelly
    Treatment: Daily tea spray; Coconut oil overnight treatment; Citric acid rinse for hard water; 2-step Henndigo w/ amla to cover gray

    2C, fine, low porosity, low/medium density, protein sensitive

    Looking for styling products and tools

    iHerb Code KQS149 for 5% off your order
  • WavyKfromNJWavyKfromNJ Posts: 654Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    Thanks so much for the responses! 

    WavyKFromNJ: I have read that article on hard water but will look at it again. I had never heard/seen the protein filler at Sally's. I will check it out! Also, I see from your signature that you like Living Proof products. Do you think the ingredients would work for me?

    The Restore shampoo has one of the ingredients that helps with hard water.   I get a lot of slip with that shampoo, my hair feels clean but not stripped.  I can detangle with the shampoo.  I find that my hair still needs more protein, so I use the CNPF occasionally.  I really like the No Frizz oil.  It depends on how much you want to invest.  I suggest buying the products at Ulta or Sephora so you can return them if you don't like them.
    2b, 2c,
    High Porosity - Very Fine Hair

    Low Poo: Living Proof Restore Shampoo
    Rinse Out: Living Proof Restore Conditioner
    Leave In: Living Proof Curl Leave-In
    Treatments: Restore Repair Leave-In, Colorful Neutral Protein Filler, Sunflower Oil Pre-poo
    Styling: Living Proof Curl Defining Styling Cream and/or Living Proof Curl Enhancing Styling Mousse
  • BeachLoverInNMBeachLoverInNM Posts: 20Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I will look into the Living Proof products. I do appreciate that most stores (even Target and Walgreens) allow you to return things you don't like. 

    Also I just got back from shopping (again). I checked on the SM C&H Curl and Style Milk at three stores and the product on the shelves at all three stores showed glycerin. I have e-mailed the company for clarification. I also checked on the LA Looks Extreme Sport Gel (blue gel) and it also listed glycerin in the ingredients but way, way down near the bottom of the list. Maybe the amount is negligible?
  • BeinDebBeinDeb Posts: 547Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Usually, the further down the list the ingredient is listed the smaller the amount. I don't tolerate glycerin well either, but as long as it's not listed as one of the top 5 or 6 ingredients, I'm usually OK.

    My hair adores protein and CNPF is one of my HG's. My love for it lies in the versatility. If I have a product that makes my hair silky smooth, but doesn't contain protein, I'll add a little of it in my hand and mix before applying. I also always use it in my spray bottle for refreshing, no matter whatever else I add to it.

    In your original post, you did not mention that you had tried any oils. Have you tried the LOC method? Or, if your hair is very, very dry, an oil rinse? That never fails to help me when my hair is parched. I'll do a clarifying wash. Afterwards, I'll take a few drops of oil in my hand and work it into my wet hair, starting at the bottom, and scrunching it in. Then rinse. Then do your usual after wash conditioner and rinse.

    I think all of us can relate to your frustration. I suspect every single woman with curly hair goes through these periods. Hang in there! Curly hair is so beautiful, and I'd bet yours looks better than you think it does. I know there's been many, many times that I thought my hair looked awful, and low and behold, I'll get a compliment. I'm ashamed to admit that I always look at them like they have 2 heads before thanking them!!

    Finally, the last thing I'd suggest is to go back to the beginning...basic CG protocol, using only something to wash with, something to condition with, and a gel to hold. Add/change products one at a time. 

     
  • jeepcurlygurljeepcurlygurl Posts: 20,394Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Curl Virtuoso
    @Lotsawaves I think you live in similar environs, maybe you have some ideas for @BeachLoverInNM
    --I'm located in Western PA.   --I found NC in late 2004, CG since February 2005, joined the forums in May 2005, started going grey in late 2005.   --My hair is 3B with some 3A, currently at mid back length when dry,  texture-medium/fine, porosity-top is low, middle is medium, ends are porous, elasticity-normal.   --My long time favorite products are Suave & VO5 conditioners, LA Looks Sport Gel, coconut oil, honey, vinegar.   
    --My CG and grey hair progress -  
    http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/going-gray/179328-jeepys-grey-hair-progress.html   
    --My article at NaturallyCurly about going grey - https://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/seniors/how-i-went-completely-gray-and-loved-it
  • BeachLoverInNMBeachLoverInNM Posts: 20Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    BeinDeb: Thanks for your input and encouragement. One thing that keeps me going is knowing that so many other women have walked this way before me. :smile: 

    I appreciate the endorsement of CNPF and how you use it; cocktailing it or putting in a spray for refreshing would never have occurred to me. I also appreciate the explanation of oil rinsing. I have read about it but never really understood how it was done. I have read extensively about LOC/LCO and have tried it but probably didn't do it right. I have a tendency to be heavy-handed with product and oils (partly out of frustration, partly because my hair absorbs so well) and I know I used way more than a few drops! I tried and rejected coconut oil, and tried Darshana oil which was nice but expensive and no better than what I currently use, olive oil. I have been wondering about sunflower oil. 

    What resonates the most is the suggestion to go back to the basics. That's pretty much what I am trying to do now. I would love a simpler routine with less products!!!
  • BeachLoverInNMBeachLoverInNM Posts: 20Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    jeepcurlygurl: Just read your article about going gray and loved it. Your hair is beautiful (as well as your attitude about aging in general). My grays are extremely frustrating (wiry, don't play well with the non-grays) and contribute to my overall frizz problem. I would love to go gray (and may at some point) but don't feel like the color complements me; I like the more golden tones of my natural hair. But I don't enjoy having to spend so much time and money on my highlights. :/  Thanks for chiming in! 
  • jeepcurlygurljeepcurlygurl Posts: 20,394Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Curl Virtuoso
    @BeachLoverInNM ; Thank you!!
    --I'm located in Western PA.   --I found NC in late 2004, CG since February 2005, joined the forums in May 2005, started going grey in late 2005.   --My hair is 3B with some 3A, currently at mid back length when dry,  texture-medium/fine, porosity-top is low, middle is medium, ends are porous, elasticity-normal.   --My long time favorite products are Suave & VO5 conditioners, LA Looks Sport Gel, coconut oil, honey, vinegar.   
    --My CG and grey hair progress -  
    http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/going-gray/179328-jeepys-grey-hair-progress.html   
    --My article at NaturallyCurly about going grey - https://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/seniors/how-i-went-completely-gray-and-loved-it
  • LotsawavesLotsawaves Posts: 9,043Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    Yes, this climate is usually dry, but we do get some humidity.  The water is very hard.  I don't use shampoo.  Leaves me a tangled mess.  I will use a cheap conditioner like Suave & use that to clean my hair then I use a hair mask or heavier conditioner.  I always put in Coconut oil on my dry hair at night.  Just a little bit. 
    From Michael Berg:

    Every person has a unique connection to the Creator that can never be extinguished, and every person has a great soul that can manifest important things in our world. To make a person feel less than they are because of something inside themselves, be it faith, race, or sexual orientation, is the greatest sin of all."
  • bomegabomega Posts: 1,352Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    edited January 20
    I will look into the Living Proof products. I do appreciate that most stores (even Target and Walgreens) allow you to return things you don't like. 

    Also I just got back from shopping (again). I checked on the SM C&H Curl and Style Milk at three stores and the product on the shelves at all three stores showed glycerin. I have e-mailed the company for clarification. I also checked on the LA Looks Extreme Sport Gel (blue gel) and it also listed glycerin in the ingredients but way, way down near the bottom of the list. Maybe the amount is negligible?
    This is really weird. My local Safeway just started carrying a few SM products, and I checked them on a whim. The the Coconut Hibiscus Shampoo was listing glycerin, but the Conditioner did not.

    Oh, I see that about the LA Looks Sports Gel - its not in the top 5, but I wouldn't call it low either.
    Low-poo: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Shampoo for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Coconut & Shea Hydrating Shampoo
    Clarify: Kinky Curly Come Clean
    Rinse-out: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Conditioner for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Everyday Coconut Ultra Hydrating Conditioner
    DT: Camille Rose Naturals Algae Renew Deep Conditioner
    Leave-in: As I Am Leave-in
    Styler: Lily of the Desert 99% Aloe Vera Gelly
    Treatment: Daily tea spray; Coconut oil overnight treatment; Citric acid rinse for hard water; 2-step Henndigo w/ amla to cover gray

    2C, fine, low porosity, low/medium density, protein sensitive

    Looking for styling products and tools

    iHerb Code KQS149 for 5% off your order
  • bomegabomega Posts: 1,352Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    jeepcurlygurl: Just read your article about going gray and loved it. Your hair is beautiful (as well as your attitude about aging in general). My grays are extremely frustrating (wiry, don't play well with the non-grays) and contribute to my overall frizz problem. I would love to go gray (and may at some point) but don't feel like the color complements me; I like the more golden tones of my natural hair. But I don't enjoy having to spend so much time and money on my highlights. :/  Thanks for chiming in! 
    @BeachLoverInNM : Jeepy does have great hair. But like you, I'm not ready to go gray either. I know you are heads down trying to get styling products together right now, but if you have blond hair, have you thought about using Cassia to color your hair? I suggest this, because it is supposed to be similar to henna in the conditioning effect but you can dye release it and it gives a yellow dye. Henna has been such a game changer for the condition of my hair. Disclaimer: This treatment really is an annoying production, and it is basically a DIY thing because salons doing do it. But the results of color and hair condition is worth it to me. And it is much cheaper than a salon color.
    Low-poo: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Shampoo for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Coconut & Shea Hydrating Shampoo
    Clarify: Kinky Curly Come Clean
    Rinse-out: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Conditioner for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Everyday Coconut Ultra Hydrating Conditioner
    DT: Camille Rose Naturals Algae Renew Deep Conditioner
    Leave-in: As I Am Leave-in
    Styler: Lily of the Desert 99% Aloe Vera Gelly
    Treatment: Daily tea spray; Coconut oil overnight treatment; Citric acid rinse for hard water; 2-step Henndigo w/ amla to cover gray

    2C, fine, low porosity, low/medium density, protein sensitive

    Looking for styling products and tools

    iHerb Code KQS149 for 5% off your order
  • jeepcurlygurljeepcurlygurl Posts: 20,394Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Curl Virtuoso
    As for ingredients, I forgot to add about LA Looks Sport Gel as an example. My hair does not like a lot of glycerin at all and it loves LA Looks so the glycerin must be negligible. It's hard to say how much of anything is in a product since it goes by weight but there can be a big difference between 2 ingredients. There might be 1.2 oz of the 3rd ingredient but only .04 oz of the 4th. So as we keep saying, experimenting is the key!  It can be fun and it can be vexing but we gotta do it! : )
    --I'm located in Western PA.   --I found NC in late 2004, CG since February 2005, joined the forums in May 2005, started going grey in late 2005.   --My hair is 3B with some 3A, currently at mid back length when dry,  texture-medium/fine, porosity-top is low, middle is medium, ends are porous, elasticity-normal.   --My long time favorite products are Suave & VO5 conditioners, LA Looks Sport Gel, coconut oil, honey, vinegar.   
    --My CG and grey hair progress -  
    http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/going-gray/179328-jeepys-grey-hair-progress.html   
    --My article at NaturallyCurly about going grey - https://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/seniors/how-i-went-completely-gray-and-loved-it
  • BeinDebBeinDeb Posts: 547Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Beach Lover, I know you said you weren't interested in submitting to the gray, but I thought I'd throw this out there...
    I was blonde, and now my hair is silver...probably 90+%. I get tons of compliments on it, especially since it's gotten long. Interestingly enough, when I'm out in the Sun, there's gold sparklies! My Daughter tells me all the time she hopes her hair turns my color when she's my age. It's a very personal decision. For me, it was a matter of economics. My hair is very porous and regardless of what kind of "permanent" dye was used, it wouldn't hold color. It just got too expensive to even try to maintain. 

    Did you try the oil rinse? If you're going to, just start out with a few drops. If you don't notice much of a difference, increase slowly. Disbursement is very easy when it's wet, even with just a few drops. For me, it works similar to a deep conditioning treatment. So much so, that I've gotten really lazy with doing them, and should probably take the time to do one.  
  • BeachLoverInNMBeachLoverInNM Posts: 20Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    As for ingredients, I forgot to add about LA Looks Sport Gel as an example. My hair does not like a lot of glycerin at all and it loves LA Looks so the glycerin must be negligible. It's hard to say how much of anything is in a product since it goes by weight but there can be a big difference between 2 ingredients. There might be 1.2 oz of the 3rd ingredient but only .04 oz of the 4th. So as we keep saying, experimenting is the key!  It can be fun and it can be vexing but we gotta do it! : )
    Well, if your hair doesn't like glycerin either but this gel is working for you, I will try it! I have been picking it up and putting it down for years. Thanks!
  • BeachLoverInNMBeachLoverInNM Posts: 20Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    @bomega I have read about cassia on other sites and will table that for researching another day. I understand it works a lot like henna and is good for your hair. My natural color is a golden brown. My stylist uses a highlight and low light to blend in my grays. It looks OK but not fabulous. I am open to other approaches. Thanks for the suggestion!

  • BeachLoverInNMBeachLoverInNM Posts: 20Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    BeinDeb said:
    Beach Lover, I know you said you weren't interested in submitting to the gray, but I thought I'd throw this out there...
    I was blonde, and now my hair is silver...probably 90+%. I get tons of compliments on it, especially since it's gotten long. Interestingly enough, when I'm out in the Sun, there's gold sparklies! My Daughter tells me all the time she hopes her hair turns my color when she's my age. It's a very personal decision. For me, it was a matter of economics. My hair is very porous and regardless of what kind of "permanent" dye was used, it wouldn't hold color. It just got too expensive to even try to maintain. 

    Did you try the oil rinse? If you're going to, just start out with a few drops. If you don't notice much of a difference, increase slowly. Disbursement is very easy when it's wet, even with just a few drops. For me, it works similar to a deep conditioning treatment. So much so, that I've gotten really lazy with doing them, and should probably take the time to do one.  

    Would love to see a photo of your color! I'm sure I will be forced to throw in the towel on color eventually too. 

    Have not tried the oil rinse yet but will soon. I am wondering if I could do that in place of a rinse out conditioner. How economical would that be?!
  • bomegabomega Posts: 1,352Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    @bomega I have read about cassia on other sites and will table that for researching another day. I understand it works a lot like henna and is good for your hair. My natural color is a golden brown. My stylist uses a highlight and low light to blend in my grays. It looks OK but not fabulous. I am open to other approaches. Thanks for the suggestion!

    I can definitely understand wanting to pursue this at a later time. But if you do, be prepared to need new styling products. :/ Before henna I was using Giovanni + the Jessicurl flax seed gel + confident coils. Had pretty good results. Then I started with SM Coconut Hibiscus shampoo/conditioner/style milk and had better results. But after henna, I stopped needing styling products to eliminate frizz and have good everyday hair, but had to start avoiding all protein. (I do still need it for a styled look though.)
    Low-poo: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Shampoo for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Coconut & Shea Hydrating Shampoo
    Clarify: Kinky Curly Come Clean
    Rinse-out: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Conditioner for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Everyday Coconut Ultra Hydrating Conditioner
    DT: Camille Rose Naturals Algae Renew Deep Conditioner
    Leave-in: As I Am Leave-in
    Styler: Lily of the Desert 99% Aloe Vera Gelly
    Treatment: Daily tea spray; Coconut oil overnight treatment; Citric acid rinse for hard water; 2-step Henndigo w/ amla to cover gray

    2C, fine, low porosity, low/medium density, protein sensitive

    Looking for styling products and tools

    iHerb Code KQS149 for 5% off your order
  • BeachLoverInNMBeachLoverInNM Posts: 20Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    bomega said:
    I can definitely understand wanting to pursue this at a later time. But if you do, be prepared to need new styling products. :/ Before henna I was using Giovanni + the Jessicurl flax seed gel + confident coils. Had pretty good results. Then I started with SM Coconut Hibiscus shampoo/conditioner/style milk and had better results. But after henna, I stopped needing styling products to eliminate frizz and have good everyday hair, but had to start avoiding all protein. (I do still need it for a styled look though.)
    Not need styling products to eliminate frizz...? How great would that be! Wow!
  • bomegabomega Posts: 1,352Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    bomega said:
    I can definitely understand wanting to pursue this at a later time. But if you do, be prepared to need new styling products. :/ Before henna I was using Giovanni + the Jessicurl flax seed gel + confident coils. Had pretty good results. Then I started with SM Coconut Hibiscus shampoo/conditioner/style milk and had better results. But after henna, I stopped needing styling products to eliminate frizz and have good everyday hair, but had to start avoiding all protein. (I do still need it for a styled look though.)
    Not need styling products to eliminate frizz...? How great would that be! Wow!
    Ya...it was awesome. :) But to "manage expectations" a little:

    1) remember YMMV
    2) I wouldn't say that I have salon perfect hair for no product. But rather hair I can live with. Even though I bragged about no frizz, I certainly do have frizz from touching it when wet, not using the right products (I learned I have to switch products with the season), excess humidity (I live in an area that usually has ideal dews) and general bad hair days, etc.
    3) I get decent/good clumps and minimal/no frizz, but I do shampoo and rinse-out condition daily. But I always did this even in the before times.
    4) After henna, I just didn't *need* products to avoid frizz. However, it doesn't look the same in the morning v. the evening. If I want a styled-type look or have an active stressful day and need my hair to stay photo-ready all day (interview/wedding), it takes product.

    I would say the overall condition of my hair improved dramatically, as henna has definitely strengthened my hair. And this is the fundamental difference between the herbal color (henna/cassia) and salon color - herbal color strengthens, where salon color damages. This comes with the trade off that it is difficult to control the exact color you will get with herbal color, where as a good stylist can give you the color straight off the color table.
    Low-poo: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Shampoo for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Coconut & Shea Hydrating Shampoo
    Clarify: Kinky Curly Come Clean
    Rinse-out: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Conditioner for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Everyday Coconut Ultra Hydrating Conditioner
    DT: Camille Rose Naturals Algae Renew Deep Conditioner
    Leave-in: As I Am Leave-in
    Styler: Lily of the Desert 99% Aloe Vera Gelly
    Treatment: Daily tea spray; Coconut oil overnight treatment; Citric acid rinse for hard water; 2-step Henndigo w/ amla to cover gray

    2C, fine, low porosity, low/medium density, protein sensitive

    Looking for styling products and tools

    iHerb Code KQS149 for 5% off your order
  • BeachLoverInNMBeachLoverInNM Posts: 20Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Yes, this climate is usually dry, but we do get some humidity.  The water is very hard.  I don't use shampoo.  Leaves me a tangled mess.  I will use a cheap conditioner like Suave & use that to clean my hair then I use a hair mask or heavier conditioner.  I always put in Coconut oil on my dry hair at night.  Just a little bit. 
    Lotsawaves: Do you do anything to combat the hard water in your area? Do you believe the hard water causes the problem with shampoo? I don't like many shampoos either. Wondering if there is a connection? 
  • BeachLoverInNMBeachLoverInNM Posts: 20Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Yes, this climate is usually dry, but we do get some humidity.  The water is very hard.  I don't use shampoo.  Leaves me a tangled mess.  I will use a cheap conditioner like Suave & use that to clean my hair then I use a hair mask or heavier conditioner.  I always put in Coconut oil on my dry hair at night.  Just a little bit. 
    Lotsawaves: Do you do anything to combat the hard water in your area? Do you believe the hard water causes the problem with shampoo? I don't like many shampoos either. Wondering if there is a connection? 
  • GretchenGretchen Administrator Posts: 10,150Administrators, Moderators Administrator
    edited January 23

    Gretchen
    NaturallyCurly.com co-founder
    3A

    You are beautiful!
  • BeachLoverInNMBeachLoverInNM Posts: 20Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Gretchen said:

    Thanks! Will check them out.
  • BeachLoverInNMBeachLoverInNM Posts: 20Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    bomega said:

    Ya...it was awesome. :) But to "manage expectations" a little:

    1) remember YMMV
    2) I wouldn't say that I have salon perfect hair for no product. But rather hair I can live with. Even though I bragged about no frizz, I certainly do have frizz from touching it when wet, not using the right products (I learned I have to switch products with the season), excess humidity (I live in an area that usually has ideal dews) and general bad hair days, etc.
    3) I get decent/good clumps and minimal/no frizz, but I do shampoo and rinse-out condition daily. But I always did this even in the before times.
    4) After henna, I just didn't *need* products to avoid frizz. However, it doesn't look the same in the morning v. the evening. If I want a styled-type look or have an active stressful day and need my hair to stay photo-ready all day (interview/wedding), it takes product.

    I would say the overall condition of my hair improved dramatically, as henna has definitely strengthened my hair. And this is the fundamental difference between the herbal color (henna/cassia) and salon color - herbal color strengthens, where salon color damages. This comes with the trade off that it is difficult to control the exact color you will get with herbal color, where as a good stylist can give you the color straight off the color table.
    Thanks again for the input. Does the herbal color look natural?

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