A Culture of Apathy? The descent of American youth?

SoyUnaGitanaSoyUnaGitana Posts: 7Registered Users
I'd like to hear some rational opinions on this one.

Two scenarios: You are standing in line at your local college dining hall, incessant chatter abounds and the smell of grease wafts into the air. You are searching for something will at once be filling and vegetarian and hopefully not digusting; you settle to pick at some pasta and go back to your dorm and consume copious amounts of candy. While you are waiting in line, you hear two girls discussing a nazi group visiting your campus. "What is a nazi?" You hear the first girl ask. You quickly glance up, are you serious is the first thing your mind jumps to yell. Then you chide your history majoring self for being some judgemental. You politely explain to the girl, because her friend seems at a loss of words. She asked you "they're communist." You explain that this is not true and that they exist on opposite ends of the political spectrum. She says "whatever, I don't get it." You grab your pasta and leave.

Next: You are trying to interest your roommate in the plight of the workers that supply articles for extremely large wardrobe. You meantion a specific brand of speakers that have been known to violate human rights atrociously within their factories. "Well what do you wear to run?" You explain to her that you purchase sweat-shop free, labeless, vegan shoes that were half the price of her sneakers. "Well I bet they don't run as good." You remind her that since you are training for a marathon, so you run roughly 50 more miles than her a week and have had the shoes for almost a year, any problems would surely have occured by now. She tells you that you can't save everyone. You tell her you are very aware of that, but you can make simple changes in your life to positively affect as many as you can. She says thats to hard, and that you shouldn't read so many books. You walk away.

These two things have happened to me within the last month at the large university I attend. Along with many other things, they have led me to curse the decline of the youth. The majority of people I meet here have no philisophical notions, political ideologies, and forsake any interest in true artistic creativity in favor of ridiculous music and reality television. How many facebooks have you seen that read Favorite book: Whats a book? or I don't like to read. Yet list every program mtv has ever aired about the rich and directionless?

The few I have met with any opinion whatsoever, either are very insular within their groups, almost to a clique-like extent or have unfounded opinions passed down from parents or whomever. Case in point: This boy in one of my classes took offense to the 'peace is possible' stencling on my bag as he is in the rotc. I explain to him that I personally wish him the best, but that I could not morally or physically support the war effort and laid out my reasons as to why. He retorted that all of commie-liberals were the same. To which I told him that I viewed myself as neither communist nor liberal for I simply care about humans. I told him that I do currently believe in a socialist leaning government order, but if I was suddenly proved wrong and laissez-faire free markets do solve the current problems with the enviorment and poverty that I would give up every re-distribution of wealth fantasy I had ever entertained and would campaign for every free-trade agreement I could find. He had nothing to say to this, except another hippie insult.

Anyway, all these frustrations with this culture, and my school which seems to support it through ridiculously easy classes and programs I've decided to actually take a semester off to backpack from volunteer program to volunteer program in South America and then return to the states at another school. However, I'm worried this a plague that doesn't just affect where I am, but this generation as a whole. Any opinions?

Sorry this was ridiculously long and riddled with spelling and grammar mistakes. If you read it all, then congratulations, you've probably read more than my roommates have all year.
--
3-a/b/c hair.
Goal: Chin length new growth by the end of this year

Tired of disrespecting and denying my varied multicultural past with store-bought conformity

Comments

  • charolastra00charolastra00 Posts: 24Registered Users
    I guess I am lucky that I go to probably the most socially conscious university in the country. That's why I applied here early decision and barely looked anywhere else.

    In January we had Jimmy Carter come to speak followed by a direct response by Alan Dershowitz. Last week, Daniel Pipes came to speak with a direct response afterwards by Norman Finkelstein.

    Almost everyone I know is involved in at least one political organization, and while there are few conservatives/ Republicans here, they are also extremely knowledgeable about the world around them and participate in several issue groups like environmental action and Darfur groups.

    One great scenario was that a bunch of us went to a war protest on the Boston Commons with our student group ranging from radical liberals to anarchists to conservatives to libertarians, and all 30 of us practically noticed (at separate times) that Howard Zinn was standing behind us. I don;t know how many people period would notice Howard Zinn, much less know who he was. It made me proud.

    I don't necessarily think it's just the younger generations that are apathetic and completely retarded when it comes to anything beyond ourselves, but really most everyone. People think they can vote and that's their fulfillment of their civic duty for the year. Most people can't even halfass that.
  • kcckcc Posts: 681Registered Users
    I totally get what you're saying about this culture of apathy. I've been thinking that maybe kids have been trained to not care. If they don't care, if society doesn't care, then they can have a "convenient blindness" to the issues of our world. Don't look, don't see it. Don't listen, don't hear it. They move on and get to live their lives without feeling what is really going on. They get to stay ahead, keeping others behind, not caring about anything else. Nobody's made them see/hear it. So I'm glad you're trying.
    And you know, I'm really not totally sold on the sandwich idea. They're kind of traditional, I know I said that, don't question me about that, but they aren't really all that chic, you know? --fig jam
  • redheadpainredheadpain Posts: 5Registered Users
    I'm really sick of the way young people treat their bodies. They drink way too much not thinking of the health affects it's all oh I need to drink this much to have fun. The fact the most of my friends have had sex with at least 4-6 people before they hit 21... nasty. They just want to have their quick fix and be done. No one cares about self respect. It's saddening for me to watch this even my little sister treats her body like trash. She has sex with a guy and doesn't make him wear a condom. She gets pregnant and HE tells her to take the RU486 she takes it without pause to see that since it came out over 200 women died taking it. We are so ready to get our quick fix we don't care about the impact on anyone esp. ourselves.
  • fluffywonderdoodlefluffywonderdoodle Posts: 316Registered Users
    This is something I think about often, especially because I'm part of this generation. (still in high school though) I often encounter the "one person can't save the world, so why bother?" attitude from people. I think it partly comes from the general laziness of this generation... people are fatter than ever, exercising less, and eating worse. I feel like people have become so oblivious to what's going on around them, and to them, and they just don't care anymore. It's hard to deal with, but you have to just keep pushing for what you believe in and realize that you really are doing something good, whether or not some boneheads realize it! :roll: So many people don't think ahead into the future, realizing that their actions DO impact the world on a scale much grander than they can even begin to fathom! Sadly (and I don't mean to sound pessimistic!) but there's not a whole lot you can do except keep pushing for what you believe in, and know that you are doing the right thing. Once people are set in their ways, it's hard to change them, and you most likely never will. But it's best to always be willing to teach them, if they'll listen.

    Sometimes I also think the only thing that will really grab peoples attention and make them care about the world is if something really drastic happens, because it's hard to just IMAGINE our world blowing up from getting hotter and hotter because of global warming! That's a very sad thought though... I don't like to think of it much, lol.

    But like I said, I think education is the most important and powerful thing. (AND A NEW PRESIDENT!!)
  • susancnwsusancnw Posts: 1,372Registered Users Curl Novice
    I don't really know where to begin. I have kids in high school, so I know where you are. Are the schools and parents making their kids aware of the world around them? Are they discussing current events and making the students defend their attitudes and sentiments? We do. Challenge your classmates and your teachers to discuss what is going on and defend their remarks. The kids in our HS (charter public school) are engaged and discuss current events, argue about the Constitution and civil rights. They argue about illegal immigration - it's very much in the forefront in our area. The graduating seniors have to produce a 25 page thesis (the things some college seniors have to do). The presentation portion much be 12 pages long and they give it, then defend it to seniors, students, some of their teachers. Do your parents and teachers whine when they are called for jury duty? Do they do their best to get out of it, instead of accepting it for the privilege that it is. Tell them to consider it payment for being allowed to vote however they want.

    Something drastic already did happen. Several somethings. 9/11. Remember that one? London's 7/7 bombing? Spain's bombing? The Bali nightclubs? The USS Cole? Khobar Towers? Embassies in Africa? The foiled bombings in Scotland? How much more drastic do you want?

    The world is not going to blow up and get hotter and hotter. Are people really so significant that this earth cannot adapt? It's been adapting to changes for millions of years. How arrogant to think that we can destroy it. Yes, we can treat it better, but we won't destroy it. You don't need to think that much about the global warming as it is a CONSENSUS. You're a teen...consensus basically means a group of people. No proven fact. Let's face it. The weather folks can't tell me what the weather is going to be next week, let alone 50 or 100 years from now. Nor can they tell me what it was like (with certitude) 150 years ago. We just started keeping records in the late 1800s. They use computer modeling to make a guess on what the climate will be like. Computers - GIGO - garbage in, garbage out.

    Yes, education is a powerful and important thing. But you need to educate yourself on ALL sides of the issues, not just one. Be smart and check out lots of places, even places that you don't agree with. You might learn something. Can you give me specific reasons why you think we need a new president? (other than this is the longest and most boring election cycle I've ever seen). Who will you vote for? More importantly, why? Have you picked someone out? Two someones? And they have to be legitimate reasons.

    Let's see....share the wealth. Socialism. Communism. Yeah, those have worked really well. The leaders at the top get the money, everyone else has to share the pittance left. Look at Cuba. Yeah, universal health care...which can kill you. Majority of the nation is in poverty. Communism. Yeah, that worked well in Russia too. Once the USSR broke up, the satellite nations under their thumb have thrived and grown under the capitalist system. yeah, sometimes it takes a bit for the balance to come, but it has. You were making a judgment also when you claimed that the young man in ROTC was parroting others. Did it occur to you that he's made a commitment? A commitment that just might lead him to laying his life on the line. Didja bother to thank him for that commitment? Yes, peace is possible...thanks to young men and women like that. Young people like my soldier son. Young people like his friends, like the ones I see at the recruiting offices and at the camps. He very well could have been so exasperated at you that he couldn't take it any longer. Peace is possible....but we need to be able to defend it.
    Lovely, you go to a socially conscious university. Is there a name? From the list of speakers you give us, it would appear that all of the speakers are from one side of the political spectrum. Jimmy Carter - terrific. The president responsible for double digit inflation and record unemployment in our nation. Sat on his hands and did nothing when Iran invaded the sovereignty of our Embassy and took our people hostages. When he did make a pitiful attempt at 'rescue' he got a lot of good men killed. He didn't want to commit the men and supplies to doing it properly, so he tried in a half-assed manner. Made all of us look like fools. I got a car during his presidency. I remember spending a lot of Sat mornings at the gas station, waiting in line to fill up, reading a book while waiting. And this is America!

    Oh, and the vegan shoes.
    My son wears combat boots (and a parachute). So does my son-in-law.
    The older I get, the less patience I have with cleverness. Thomas Sowell.
    Resolve to perform what you ought. Perform without fail what you resolve. Benjamin Franklin.
    Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first. Mark Twain.

    s-event.png

  • TigerlilyBumblerootTigerlilyBumbleroot Posts: 8Registered Users
    well, what is a nazi???
    3b, lover of jojoba oil.
  • TigerlilyBumblerootTigerlilyBumbleroot Posts: 8Registered Users
    No, I'm just kidding. I live on a commune. A significant portion of people here are college grads. Everyone says the same things.

    I only skimmed the last post so I didn't catch sarcasm, if there was any, about humans not really being able to do serious damage to the earth.

    If it was a sarcastic remark than I apologize for this argument as we would be in agreement.

    Seriously, industrial wastes, toxins, depletion of resources- we are only humans- nothing else on this planet does anywhere even CLOSE on the scale of damage that we do. In fact, check out our health disorders and diseases many of which are related to the damage that we do to the earth and ourselves. Not being able to recover. Of course. It took billions of years to make what we've got and we've been happily unmaking it in the last centuries, especially this past one. It blows my mind that people can happily not think about their (our) planetary impact.
    3b, lover of jojoba oil.
  • susancnwsusancnw Posts: 1,372Registered Users Curl Novice
    Don't blame you for skimming...sometimes I get passionate and carried away ;)

    Commune, cool. I am curious though, I've not known anyone who lived on one, but I have known those on a kibbutz so..I'm not sure how much of a difference there actually is between the two. Is all of the work, leisure, etc. shared completely equally, each according to his need or what? Genuinely curious.

    Nope, no sarcasm. Not saying we cannot do damage, but to think we can actually destroy it? Nope. Global warming. Again, no real scientific proof. Heat from the sun, cow flatulence, etc. Why are we (US) responsible for all of it? Seen the pollution coming from China and India? They get a free ride since they are 'developing nations'. We have got some amazing technologies that are in use today to reduce our pollution and there are more that will go into effect in the next decade. Personal responsibility. Want to reduce fossil fuels? What about nuclear? France provides something like 80% of the energy consumed by their people via nuclear energy and they sell it to the rest of Europe also (I'll try to find the article). Heard of any accidents there? And the technology that we have is so very cutting edge that there is really no reason not to use it. But the enviro nuts insist that we are destroying the environment and the risks are too great. Okay, let's use fossil fuels. The Swedes have been drilling in the North Sea for decades for the oil they need for energy (the rest of their usage is nuclear, bought from France (see above)). If they can do it for decades, what can we do with our newest technology? My sister works for a major oil company and the technology they have for R&D is amazing. She gets excited about it and tells me. It's VERY cool.

    And climate change is cyclical. When I was in HS Time magazine was shrieking about how the earth was cooling and we would all freeze to death by 2000. That overpopulation would destroy us, etc. Um, wrong.


    And yeah, lots of diseases and disorders. But what of the cures and therapies that have been developed for them? Autoimmune disorders for example. For hundreds of years people could do nothing. My older sister has rheumatoid arthritis and the stuff available to her is eons past what was available for my English teacher in HS who had it.

    I'm going to assume that the request for Nazi definition is you being silly. But if not, here is the dictionary.com definition.

    Na·zi /ˈnɑtsi, ˈnæt-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[naht-see, nat-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, plural -zis, adjective
    –noun 1. a member of the National Socialist German Workers' party of Germany, which in 1933, under Adolf Hitler, seized political control of the country, suppressing all opposition and establishing a dictatorship over all cultural, economic, and political activities of the people, and promulgated belief in the supremacy of Hitler as Führer, aggressive anti-Semitism, the natural supremacy of the German people, and the establishment of Germany by superior force as a dominant world power. The party was officially abolished in 1945 at the conclusion of World War II.
    2. (often lowercase) a person elsewhere who holds similar views.
    3. Sometimes Offensive. (often lowercase) a person who is fanatically dedicated to or seeks to control a specified activity, practice, etc.: a jazz nazi who disdains other forms of music; tobacco nazis trying to ban smoking.
    –adjective 4. of or pertaining to the Nazis.


    So why the question?

    Forgot to finish my thought on vegan shoes....any idea how much fossil fuel is expended in making vegan (i.e., plastic) materials?
    My son wears combat boots (and a parachute). So does my son-in-law.
    The older I get, the less patience I have with cleverness. Thomas Sowell.
    Resolve to perform what you ought. Perform without fail what you resolve. Benjamin Franklin.
    Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first. Mark Twain.

    s-event.png

  • AngularScienceAngularScience Posts: 844Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I see all sorts of people now, and has it ever been a rude awakening. I was always used to the overtly-political types (I'll get into that later), but now I see tons of students who never, ever read a magazine cover-to-cover, much less a newspaper (or heaven forbid, an actual book). It's a problem, for sure, because they get so swayed into not thinking for themselves. To them, watching the Daily Show is equivalent to researching voting records. I fear for the world because they make their voting decisions unresearched and carelessly.

    The overly-political ones and the ones that think that they're politically-savvy but are not are the ones that really irritate me, though. I have had sooooooo many pushy people try to get me to register to vote. First of all, what makes you think I'm not registered? Second of all, don't get into my face about voting in a primary--I'm not registered in this state, so stop harassing me!

    I have "friends" who think that just because I support people's right not to vote, that means I'm not registered. I really hate when people get on you about voting. Yeah, I get it, it's important, but I'll only vote a) after I've researched the candidates and their positions on issues and b) after I feel that one candidate is the best match for what I believe needs to be done for this country/state/town/etc. Often, these are the same fasely-savvy people who think they are educated enough about political affairs but then cannot even name one current political issue or foreign affairs news. I have been reading newspapers since I was 7 (my parents like to train us young) and watching the nightly news before that. I remember watching commentary on the first Gulf War, for pete's sake, so don't say that you know oodles more about politics when you don't even watch the news!

    And what makes matters worse is that these snobby middle-class liberals think that anyone from the south is an uneducated, gun-and-Bible-toting, Bush-loving idiot. When they even hint about anything like that, I wanna smack those people so hard. I too grew up in the 'burbs of the northeast, but I'm not so ignorant as to suggest that every person from the south is like that. These "friends" of mine, when they meet southerners/poor southerners/poor people in general, treat them like sh~t and wonder why they don't conform to the same ideals they do. Well, here's a hint--maybe they don't want to do the same things you do! These people say they are all about free-thinking and stuff, but when you actually disagree with them, they act like your opinion doesn't matter.

    Anyway, long post, sorry. I had to rant about this. These freakish liberals had it coming for a long time. Message to anyone like this: leave me the he** alone, or I will find you and smack you so hard you will be put into orbit. I'm not anti-liberal, I'm just anti-stupid and anti-snob.
  • wild~hairwild~hair Posts: 9,890Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    susancnw wrote: »
    How arrogant to think that we can destroy it. Yes, we can treat it better, but we won't destroy it.

    How arrogant to think we cannot destroy it.
    susancnw wrote: »
    Forgot to finish my thought on vegan shoes....any idea how much fossil fuel is expended in making vegan (i.e., plastic) materials?

    My vegan shoes are hemp and recycled tires for the treads.

    susancnw, I used to have you on ignore, then took you off for some reason. Now I'm remembering why I put you there in the first place! You're too much! :laughing9:
  • susancnwsusancnw Posts: 1,372Registered Users Curl Novice
    Wild Hair. Put me back on ignore. Really, won't hurt my feelings a bit.

    Meteorites couldn't destroy the earth. It took her a long time to recover, but destroying the earth? Okay, a bomb would. Read the Skeptical Environmentalist"? I liked it...interesting POV and he is actually knowledgeable whereof he speaks...as opposed to a former VP who continues to have one of the biggest carbon footprints in the US, while hypocritically telling the rest of us to cut back.

    Oceans and the sun are responsible for so much of the global warming. Sun is hot. Ocean water reflects sun warmth back into atmosphere. Again, I can't trust the meteorologist for the right weather prediction for next week, so why should I trust them for 100 years in the future or even 50? Core samples have shown that the earth has been heating and cooling all along. Much more extreme temps than we see right now. My biggest point is to read BOTH sides of the story. I won't read/see An Inconvenient Truth as I have no respect for his scientific method, research and frankly, the man has no scientific credibility. One of the best climate scientists in the world lives in my town and he very much disagrees with Gore. And there have been professional repercussions. But I have done a lot of reading on both sides of the issue before I made my decision. According to the last scare when I was in HS....I should be frozen now. Instead it will be 70s today and tomorrow, and higher temps on Mon/Tues, then cooling off a bit....all right on schedule. I was driving home from work today. One outdoor temp thingie said 82 degrees. It was in direct sun. The one on the bank down the street about 4 blocks said 72- it was in the shade.

    Cool shoes...love to see a pic of them. Is everything else that you wear/consume/use vegan also. Is it ALL recycled? And do you think the Recycled Tire Fairy dropped off the material for the treads?

    Again, my point is that we need to act responsibly. Towards each other through the simple act of courtesy (my kids hold doors for anyone older than themselves, the males do for women of all ages...and if a woman berates them that she can do it herself, they tell her yes you can, but my mother taught me to hold doors open and this is my way of respecting her training).

    Be responsible in our use of materials. Be wise in our stewardship of the earth (and ethanol is NOT a wise stewardship).
    http://www.isn.ethz.ch/news/sw/details.cfm?id=19026

    S
    My son wears combat boots (and a parachute). So does my son-in-law.
    The older I get, the less patience I have with cleverness. Thomas Sowell.
    Resolve to perform what you ought. Perform without fail what you resolve. Benjamin Franklin.
    Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first. Mark Twain.

    s-event.png

  • SiavaSiava Posts: 32Registered Users
    :lol: No, humans won't destroy the earth. Even if we nuked all of the continents down into the oceans (if that's even possible), Earth would still spin 'round the Sun. We'll kill ourselves long before this planet dies. Just my humble opinion, of course.

    SoyUnaGitana, I'm not eloquent when it comes to my feelings about how society has changed and its troubled youth, but I'll try my best to share.

    Sometimes I wonder just as generations before us, what is going on? Where did we go wrong? Are we going so wrong though or is struggle simply the human condition?

    I think back to my mother's generation. The Korean War. Viet Nam. JFK was assassinated. Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated. The Kent State University students were fired upon by our own National Guard. The Cuban Missile Crisis. Those were SCARY times for our folks. So what did they do here to help themselves escape from the horrible realities? Lots of drugs, free love, created an entire genre of music unique to their generation, rebelled, youth gone "wild" so to speak.

    I think back to my grandparent's era. Prohibition. The Great Depression. WWII directly afterwards. OMG, can you imagine?! All of the great powers were at each other's throats. Over 70 million people around the globe died. Citizens didn't have split-second media like we have so I can just imagine how terrified people were not knowing what was going on. Those were SCARY times for them. So what did they do to escape from the horrible realities? Women cut their hair and wore shorter dresses. Extramarital affairs became more affluent since men were leaving for war by the droves. Gambling increased. A lot of these things seem silly to us now, but back then they were quite risque.

    I bring up their eras because right now this generation has entered our "scary time" and I believe the 'I don't care about anything but myself' attitude is a way for a lot of people to don rose-colored glasses. Focusing on themselves and being totally oblivious to history, reality, and the future is a way for them to keep their sanity. If not, panic might ensue.

    Maybe I'm thinking too deeply about it, and of course there are tons of other things to factor in with the over-indulgent youth of today, but this is part of it I think. I don't have enough time right now to go into the other factors, but I will later if you'd like.
  • SiavaSiava Posts: 32Registered Users
    ^ Reported.
  • Riot CrrlRiot Crrl Posts: 3,135Registered Users
    No, humans won't destroy the earth. Even if we nuked all of the continents down into the oceans (if that's even possible), Earth would still spin 'round the Sun. We'll kill ourselves long before this planet dies. Just my humble opinion, of course.

    That's kind of semantical. It is true that "destroy" may be hyperbolistic if we define it to mean "completely remove." It may be preferable to replace "destroy" with "render unrecoverably incapable of supporting most life forms" or something of that nature.
  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,391Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I think that the young, self-absorbed pseudo-liberal types tend to be into the hipster thing, and try to view everything with ironic detachment.

    Aside from that, I don't really think that "kids today don't care" is a generalization that can be made. Or at the very least, it's one that can be made of any generation. And you can also say, "kids today care a lot." It just depends on which kids you choose to focus on.
  • automaticflowersautomaticflowers Posts: 3,465Registered Users
    I think it partly comes from the general laziness of this generation... people are fatter than ever, exercising less, and eating worse.

    OK, I'm sure that I've beaten this into the ground already in other threads, but...

    Laziness does not always equal overweight. It's insulting to me every time someone makes that kind of blanket statement, because I'm not lazy at all. My brother's lazy, my boyfriend's lazy... neither of them are fat.

    I just hate seeing "Look at how fat Americans are!" as an immediate followup to saying people are lazy or don't care. Don't get me wrong, that can absolutely be part of it, but there are some chunky people out there who do a lot. Why not find other examples of laziness or apathy?

    However, you did have a point about laziness in general. A lot of younger people are too wrapped up in their own stuff and don't want to be bothered with the problems of the world. And they don't think they can make a difference individually, so they use that as an excuse to consume and waste, consume and waste.

    But if everyone made an individual effort, then in the long term it would pay off because everyone's doing something. Maybe you're not working face to face with other people, but you're still part of a group effort to make a difference.

    When I cover important meetings for my radio station, what strikes me every single time is that the only citizens who attend are at least middle aged. I'm 26, and I'm often the youngest person by far in the crowd. It's depressing.

    But people turn out in droves to complain when a decision has already been made... after they'd been given ample opportunity to give their input on things that directly affect them, and they couldn't be bothered.

    The fact that someone out there doesn't even know what a Nazi is makes me wonder how she got into college in the first place. That's a whole new breed of stupidity I was blissfully unaware of. :thumbdown:
  • TillyMunchyWavesTillyMunchyWaves Posts: 671Registered Users
    What about unassuming, low income, high school diploma liberals? I guess we have it coming too and are destroying the US...oh wait that's snobby educated people...wait it's the upper class ones...oh wait...it's everybody but *you.*
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