CurlTalk

High, high dew product recommendations

EnaidysyEnaidysy Posts: 9Registered Users
Hello!

I've been trying to follow the CG method since 2015 with mixed success. Some days are okay, and others...a disaster! The frizz (oh, the frizz!) and non-clumping of some parts of my shoulder length hair are the main problems. Then I started reading this site in great detail and found there are so many variables I didn't take into consideration.

What I have to work with:
1. High dews year-round (I was shocked to find that the dew point here has been 75 for the past few days) No wonder the HGs and methods that many of you swear by do nothing for me. :cry:
2. High porosity (my naked, dyed hair dried in 2 hours)
3. Fine, 2C/3A type. Frizz is everywhere, especially around my temples.

What I currently use:
1. Kinky Curly Come Clean. It's a bit drying so I'm on the hunt.
2. Giovanni Nutra Fix Hair Reconstructor
3. Alba Botanica Leave-in Conditioner
4. Giovanni L.A. Natural Styling Gel or Beautiful Curls Defining Gel

I've also been diffusing my hair to about 80% dryness, which is probably not helping with the frizz.

Some things I gathered from my reading so far is that I should avoid humectants at the high, high dews, and go for anti-humectants as far as possible. I don't know if I am protein-needy or protein sensitive. I also found that others in high dew points leave OUT the leave-in.

Also, do microfibre towels work for you? I was dutifully using one, but then I read that it may worsen the frizz?? I'm on the verge of using a new tea-towel on my hair just because it says 100% cotton.

I'm going to go back to basics and just wash, condition, maybe find an anti-frizz product, and use a hard gel suitable for my humid and/or rainy weather.

Do you curlies have recommendations for products that you know have worked in such high dew points? Specifically shampoo, a deep treatment, some kind of frizz control product, and another gel. I'm trying to avoid glycerin since that's the red flag that keeps coming up.

Thanks for reading my long post. :compress: Any suggestions or comments on my routine and current products is appreciated!

Comments

  • rbbrbb Posts: 4,084Registered Users Curl Dabbler
    i have a couple of suggestions, hopefully others will add to it.

    you have fine, high porosity hair, you should be doing protein treatments frequently. i can HIGHLY recommend curl junkie repair me -- it's a protein treatment that is well balanced with moisture so you never need to do a deep conditioning after. no pre-mixing, it's ready in the bottle, use it whenever and as much or as little as you want.

    i use it in the shower, after wash, let it sit in my hair til i'm finished, then i rinse and apply leave in. you can use a plastic cap on it to deepen that.... it is truly amazing.

    the other thing i would recommend is that with high porosity and high dews i would definitely seal after the leave in. you can try some lightweight oils, like grapeseed, or you can try butter products.

    HTH

    3a, some 2c & 3b, medium texture, porosity normal, low elasticity :-(
    washing/cowashing, conditioning, protein tx: curl junkie products
    leave in:cj conditioners and treatments as leave in
    styling: cj aloe fix gel, cj pattern pusha, cj honey butta leave in, cj cccc, cj ciab.
    sealants - jane carter nourish & shine
  • EnaidysyEnaidysy Posts: 9Registered Users
    rbb wrote: »
    i have a couple of suggestions, hopefully others will add to it.

    you have fine, high porosity hair, you should be doing protein treatments frequently. i can HIGHLY recommend curl junkie repair me -- it's a protein treatment that is well balanced with moisture so you never need to do a deep conditioning after. no pre-mixing, it's ready in the bottle, use it whenever and as much or as little as you want.

    i use it in the shower, after wash, let it sit in my hair til i'm finished, then i rinse and apply leave in. you can use a plastic cap on it to deepen that.... it is truly amazing.

    the other thing i would recommend is that with high porosity and high dews i would definitely seal after the leave in. you can try some lightweight oils, like grapeseed, or you can try butter products.

    HTH
    Thanks for your recommendations! Curl junkie repair me sounds amazing. CJ products kept coming up all over the threads I've been reading, and after your testimony, I'm definitely carting this one. :thumright:

    Regarding use of oils to seal...would it be okay to use pure Argan oil? I have some meant for facial application, but it turned out a little too rich for that purpose.

    TIA!
  • rbbrbb Posts: 4,084Registered Users Curl Dabbler
    absolutely try organ oil! don't be discouraged if it doesn't work well, sometimes it's trial and error.
    if you do a search you should be able to come up with some old threads about oils that would be helpful.

    3a, some 2c & 3b, medium texture, porosity normal, low elasticity :-(
    washing/cowashing, conditioning, protein tx: curl junkie products
    leave in:cj conditioners and treatments as leave in
    styling: cj aloe fix gel, cj pattern pusha, cj honey butta leave in, cj cccc, cj ciab.
    sealants - jane carter nourish & shine
  • rbbrbb Posts: 4,084Registered Users Curl Dabbler
    also, always start with a tiny amount. just a little bit over your hands, then over your hair. wait a while before you try more. less is more with oils and butters.

    3a, some 2c & 3b, medium texture, porosity normal, low elasticity :-(
    washing/cowashing, conditioning, protein tx: curl junkie products
    leave in:cj conditioners and treatments as leave in
    styling: cj aloe fix gel, cj pattern pusha, cj honey butta leave in, cj cccc, cj ciab.
    sealants - jane carter nourish & shine
  • EnaidysyEnaidysy Posts: 9Registered Users
    I've been reading up on oils all day. Today I tried about 6 dropper drops of Argan oil smoothed onto very damp hair. I followed that with the Giovanni styling gel. Drying time is much longer today due to the oils, I feel. Frizz seems to be slightly reduced, perhaps I need more oil? My curls seem a bit more limp today, but if I had to choose between frizzy or limp hair, I'd go with slightly limp anytime! But the curls still don't clump particularly well. I'm waiting for LAlooks sport gel to arrive, which might take a while since I'm not in the US.
    I really need to get myself that CJ repair me asap. And some sweet almond AND grape seed oil.
  • rbbrbb Posts: 4,084Registered Users Curl Dabbler
    i wouldn't put any more oil in your hair. that's probably what is making it limp.
    i think with your fine, high porosity hair the protein treatment is what will make a big difference.
    also, if it's been a while since you had your haircut, maybe a trim/dusting would be helpful. but really, i believe it's the protein that is major. the rest does factor in, tho.

    3a, some 2c & 3b, medium texture, porosity normal, low elasticity :-(
    washing/cowashing, conditioning, protein tx: curl junkie products
    leave in:cj conditioners and treatments as leave in
    styling: cj aloe fix gel, cj pattern pusha, cj honey butta leave in, cj cccc, cj ciab.
    sealants - jane carter nourish & shine
  • kasdenkasden Posts: 1,040Registered Users
    I think you're on the right track by trying to avoid humectants, but...I checked the ingredients in a couple of the products you listed and they contain aloe or glycerin. Both of those are huge frizz inducers for me especially if it's in my stylers!

    As far as applying oil as a sealer, I emulsify almond oil or jojoba oil in the palms of my hands with my LI (KCKT)...because I'm lazy - lol! Then I let it soak in for about 15-20 minutes before I apply gel, diffuse, then apply some hard hold gel and diffuse til about 80% dry (this is the smaster's method).

    If I were you, I'd clarify and start over with a very simple routine, then you can add products to see if they work for you. Homemade FSG is awesome and cheap!!!! It doesn't have much hold, but it's a great curl enhancer.

    Also...this is an interesting thread: MASTERPOST: Types of Frizz

    GOOD LUCK!!!!
    2c/3a, fine, low-med porosity, below BSL, mod CG since 9/09

    "I'm fairly certain that given a cape and a nice tiara, I could save the world." - Leigh Standley
  • Therese1Therese1 Posts: 1,707Registered Users Curl Novice
    I agree to see how your hair reacts to glycerin and aloe in the high dews. Some people can tolerate them (or one or the other), while other people cannot.

    When I had high-porosity hair, I found that using a tiny bit of shea butter emulsified in my palms to scrunch out the crunch of my gel cast helped with the frizz.
    Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonic; Oribe Cleansing Creme
    RO: IN Harmonic
    LI: As I Am; CJ Beauticurls; Jessicurl (JC) Gelebration Spray
    Stylers: JC Confident Coils; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray; John Masters Sea Mist; Bumble Bb. Gel
    Normal- to low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair
  • Therese1Therese1 Posts: 1,707Registered Users Curl Novice
    I agree to see how your hair reacts to glycerin and aloe in the high dews. Some people can tolerate them (or one or the other), while other people cannot.

    When I had high-porosity hair, I found that using a tiny bit of shea butter emulsified in my palms to scrunch out the crunch of my gel cast helped with the frizz.
    Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonic; Oribe Cleansing Creme
    RO: IN Harmonic
    LI: As I Am; CJ Beauticurls; Jessicurl (JC) Gelebration Spray
    Stylers: JC Confident Coils; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray; John Masters Sea Mist; Bumble Bb. Gel
    Normal- to low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair
  • EnaidysyEnaidysy Posts: 9Registered Users
    Thanks for the advice, I will cut back on the Argan oil during the next wash. After discovering the price of CJ repair me, including shipping, to Asia, I decided to DIY something. Hence I spent some time at a baking goods store and got me some supplies. Why does it cost so much to bring in one bottle of product? :thumbdown:

    Does any one have tips on how to apply the very popular PT recipe by iagirl for my situation? I should probably start at a low gelatin concentration right?
  • EnaidysyEnaidysy Posts: 9Registered Users
    kasden wrote: »
    I think you're on the right track by trying to avoid humectants, but...I checked the ingredients in a couple of the products you listed and they contain aloe or glycerin. Both of those are huge frizz inducers for me especially if it's in my stylers!

    As far as applying oil as a sealer, I emulsify almond oil or jojoba oil in the palms of my hands with my LI (KCKT)...because I'm lazy - lol! Then I let it soak in for about 15-20 minutes before I apply gel, diffuse, then apply some hard hold gel and diffuse til about 80% dry (this is the smaster's method).

    If I were you, I'd clarify and start over with a very simple routine, then you can add products to see if they work for you. Homemade FSG is awesome and cheap!!!! It doesn't have much hold, but it's a great curl enhancer.

    Also...this is an interesting thread: MASTERPOST: Types of Frizz

    GOOD LUCK!!!!

    Kasden,
    Thanks for the links and intro to smasters. I'll have to look into this too. Is FSG a daily use kind of thing? Like used in place of LI?
    KCKT was on my list to buy but some reviews mentioned it didn't really work in high dew points. Now I'm hopeful again. :smile:
    You are probably right about my stylers being the root of the frizz problem. I'm waiting for LALSG to arrive before I can switch, or I'll be gel-less and I think I'd like that look even less. :lol:
    I've also left out the alba botanic LI due to the glycerin these past two washes. The oil will just have to do for now.
    Aloe and/or glycerin seems to be in just about every hair product. It makes it so hard to get anything off the shelf.
    I will explore the DIY stuff you mentioned.

    Therese1,
    Yes, I'll be cutting out all the products that have glycerin and aloe as far as possible. By shea butter, do you mean any product with shea butter in it, or a pure shea butter alone (if there is such a product)?

    Thanks!
  • rbbrbb Posts: 4,084Registered Users Curl Dabbler
    here's the info for the protein treatment --

    Science-y Hair Blog: Recipes and Projects

    it's goose footprints website, science-y.blog.com

    3a, some 2c & 3b, medium texture, porosity normal, low elasticity :-(
    washing/cowashing, conditioning, protein tx: curl junkie products
    leave in:cj conditioners and treatments as leave in
    styling: cj aloe fix gel, cj pattern pusha, cj honey butta leave in, cj cccc, cj ciab.
    sealants - jane carter nourish & shine
  • kasdenkasden Posts: 1,040Registered Users
    Enaidysy wrote: »

    Kasden,
    Thanks for the links and intro to smasters. I'll have to look into this too. Is FSG a daily use kind of thing? Like used in place of LI?
    KCKT was on my list to buy but some reviews mentioned it didn't really work in high dew points. Now I'm hopeful again. :smile:
    You are probably right about my stylers being the root of the frizz problem. I'm waiting for LALSG to arrive before I can switch, or I'll be gel-less and I think I'd like that look even less. :lol:
    I've also left out the alba botanic LI due to the glycerin these past two washes. The oil will just have to do for now.
    Aloe and/or glycerin seems to be in just about every hair product. It makes it so hard to get anything off the shelf.
    I will explore the DIY stuff you mentioned.

    Therese1,
    Yes, I'll be cutting out all the products that have glycerin and aloe as far as possible. By shea butter, do you mean any product with shea butter in it, or a pure shea butter alone (if there is such a product)?

    Thanks!

    I think of FSG as more of a curl cream, not as a gel. It's very moisturizing and is a great curl enhancer. Yes - I use it daily. You can't use too much! I apply the KCKT/almond oil in soaking wet hair, then scrunch in FSG, let it soak for 15-20 minutes, apply gel, diffuse, apply hard hold gel, diffuse.

    Another great use for FSG is to use it on dry hair. I'll apply it maybe 30 minutes before bed, let it dry, put my hair in a pineapple, and wake with awesome curls! Or use it on second day hair..scrunch in FSG, then scrunch in a little gel mixed with a little water.

    I'm SO sorry to tell you this...but I'm pretty sure the LALSG has glycerin. BUT...there are a lot of curly girls that use it exclusively. I know how hard it is to find products in Asia...I lived in China for 2.5 years. I traveled to Thailand where they have Boots drug store and they have AWESOME curl creme and you could find gel there, too! I also found some hair products in Hong Kong.
    2c/3a, fine, low-med porosity, below BSL, mod CG since 9/09

    "I'm fairly certain that given a cape and a nice tiara, I could save the world." - Leigh Standley
  • kasdenkasden Posts: 1,040Registered Users
    DP
    2c/3a, fine, low-med porosity, below BSL, mod CG since 9/09

    "I'm fairly certain that given a cape and a nice tiara, I could save the world." - Leigh Standley
  • Therese1Therese1 Posts: 1,707Registered Users Curl Novice
    Enaidysy, I used plain shea butter to scrunch out the crunch. You could try a product that is not straight shea butter, but I would look for a product that is solid at room temperature (that is, one made of butters). I think that butters create a better barrier to the humidity and are less likely to make the hair limp (as opposed to using a liquid oil). You will need just a tiny, tiny bit.

    One thing that helps my frizz is to smooth down my hair very well when I'm conditioning. It can take quite a while, but it can give really good reults. Just keep smoothing the conditioner through your hair until your hair feels smooth.

    Some people also find that rinsing their hair with cool water after they are finished rinsing out their conditioner helps with frizz.
    Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonic; Oribe Cleansing Creme
    RO: IN Harmonic
    LI: As I Am; CJ Beauticurls; Jessicurl (JC) Gelebration Spray
    Stylers: JC Confident Coils; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray; John Masters Sea Mist; Bumble Bb. Gel
    Normal- to low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair
  • Therese1Therese1 Posts: 1,707Registered Users Curl Novice
    Enaidysy, I used plain shea butter to scrunch out the crunch. You could try a product that is not straight shea butter, but I would look for a product that is solid at room temperature (that is, one made of butters). I think that butters create a better barrier to the humidity and are less likely to make the hair limp (as opposed to using a liquid oil). You will need just a tiny, tiny bit.

    One thing that helps my frizz is to smooth down my hair very well when I'm conditioning. It can take quite a while, but it can give really good reults. Just keep smoothing the conditioner through your hair until your hair feels smooth.

    Some people also find that rinsing their hair with cool water after they are finished rinsing out their conditioner helps with frizz.
    Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonic; Oribe Cleansing Creme
    RO: IN Harmonic
    LI: As I Am; CJ Beauticurls; Jessicurl (JC) Gelebration Spray
    Stylers: JC Confident Coils; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray; John Masters Sea Mist; Bumble Bb. Gel
    Normal- to low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair
  • BeachLoverInNMBeachLoverInNM Posts: 4Registered Users
    I am also 2C/3A and high (extremely high) porosity. However I have coarse, not fine hair. I live in the desert, not in humidity, but I also have a chronic problem with frizziness, no matter the dew point. My hair is also extremely dry. I have tried the Giovanni LA Sport Gel but found it to cause frizz (not sure why, I like the ingredients). Instead I am liking Biosilk Rock Hard Gelee (a favorite on this site). So maybe try a different gel.

    Another suggestion is to try Eden Bodyworks Coconut Cowash instead of your current shampoo. Love this stuff. It does have protein. I used to avoid protein because I have coarse hair, but have realized that I need it. I am also using and loving the Giovanni NutraFix. I use it every time I wash (not just as a deep conditioner).

    As far as clumping I traded out the fine tooth comb for my old school vent brush and it has worked great (I didn't want to buy a Denman and figured this was similar). I comb through my leave-in with my head upside down using this brush while still in the shower.

    One weird frizz buster trick I have found is using Giovanni Direct Leave In as a balm after my hair is dry. (This product didn't work for me as a leave in; I am using Beautiful Curls instead.) I put a pea sized amount in my palm and emulsify then spread over the top of my hair. I just tried it on a whim to try to use up the product and so far it seems to help with calming down frizz.

    HTH!

    P.S. I also cannot use glycerin in anything at any time. I avoid completely.
  • EnaidysyEnaidysy Posts: 9Registered Users
    Today's experiment was a mild version of IAgirl's PT. I used about half the gelatin recommended, mixed in with a bit of Giovanni hair reconstructer, for a total of 5 minutes. It felt rough on the hair while being applied, but rinsed out ok and I used lots of Giovanni reconstructer afterwards. I applied 4 drops of argan oil and Giovanni gel. Plopped to sleep and woke to slightly damp hair. I've been letting my hair airdry for the past week.

    The effect is not what I hoped for. Frizz is actually reduced (so yay?) even surrounding my temples, but I now have new flyaway hairs that clump even less than before. Overall I would say my hair feels soft, but I've definitely lost shape and curl volume. It's like I've acquired new poof that is not frizz, but definitely still not desirable. :dontknow:

    Is it too much protein? Since the conditioner has protein too? The PT concentration is already halved, I doubt I can go any lighter than that.

    It's been 5 months since my last salon cut, although I did trim it myself here and there. I'm about to get a cut soon.

    Any thoughts on my results?
  • EnaidysyEnaidysy Posts: 9Registered Users
    BeachloverinNM,
    Thanks for your product suggestions. I will look into Eden bodyworks. Are you using the new version of BRHG? I read they changed the formula and general feedback is a no-no. Do you mean you tried the LA sport gel? Or the Giovanni gel I'm currently using? I think it's not ideal, but I'm trying not to go crazy with a whole lot of new products all at once. Which beautiful curls product did u use? I'm thinking of trying their shampoo, and go back to the curl cream which I have, for my next wash.
  • EnaidysyEnaidysy Posts: 9Registered Users
    BeachloverinNM,
    Thanks for your product suggestions. I will look into Eden bodyworks. Are you using the new version of BRHG? I read they changed the formula and general feedback is a no-no. Do you mean you tried the LA sport gel? Or the Giovanni gel I'm currently using? I think it's not ideal, but I'm trying not to go crazy with a whole lot of new products all at once. Which beautiful curls product did u use? I'm thinking of trying their shampoo, and go back to the curl cream which I have, for my next wash.
  • BeachLoverInNMBeachLoverInNM Posts: 4Registered Users
    Yes, I am using the new BRHG. I was also alarmed by all the negative reviews but it's working well for me. I had also used the old formula. Not really seeing any difference.

    Oops, I meant the Giovanni LA Natural Styling Gel (not sport gel). I believe that's what you are currently using. I really wanted to like this product but after going back and forth between it and BRHG for a while, I can definitely say that the Giovanni caused frizz while BRHG does not.

    I use the Beautiful Curls Enhancing Leave-In Conditioner for wavy to curly hair. I have to use a TON of it. After shampooing with the cowash, conditioning and rinsing out the Nutrafix, I apply the Beautiful Curls and comb with my vent brush with my head upside down. Then I take ANOTHER palmful of it and "squish to condish" it into my hair (head upside down). I don't add extra water, just keep adding conditioner. The curls are pretty clumped at this point. Then I put a dab of BRGH in my palm, add a little water and rub my palms together to kind of thin out the gel, then smooth it over the top and bottom of my hair (again with head upside down). Scrunch it in from the bottom up. Then (with head still hanging down) get out of the shower and use a long-sleeved T-shirt to "plop" my hair in while I dry off and get dressed. IMPORTANT: I do not leave the T-shirt on too long or squeeze any additional water out with it. This leads to frizz for me. After flipping my head back up, if my hair starts to drip I scrunch with my bare hands to try to reincorporate the water. I let it air dry for a while and then usually diffuse dry (ala Pixiecurl). Once dry I put a little olive oil in my palms and SOTC. If it is frizzy at that point I may smooth a little Giovanni Direct Leave-In over the top as described in my previous post.

    One other thing I forgot to mention. If I remember to do it, putting olive oil in my hair before I shampoo and letting it soak in for 30-60 minutes helps a lot with controlling frizz and making my hair curlier and softer. I tried coconut oil but it didn't work. Olive oil is awesome for me. Before bed I also put some olive oil in (praying hands technique) before covering my hair with a satin cap. I don't know if this will work for you since you have fine hair, but my coarse extra-porous, extra-dry hair can take almost as much olive oil as I can put into it. It seems like my hair works best when I do the pre-poo with oil.

    I haven't tried the Beautiful Curls curl cream. Do you recommend it? Do you use it in place of a gel?

    I hear you on not wanting to try a bunch of new products. I have spent a ton of time and money trying stuff. In my experience the expensive, sold online only products didn't work any better than these moderately priced things that I can buy locally. I have been determined to try to use what I buy in some fashion, which led to a lot of experimentation and eventually to what I do now. I will probably still try products once in a while, but for now I am happy to have something that mostly works.

    Oh, and while I am on the subject of experimentation, in an effort to use up what I already had I tried mixing things together ("cocktailing"), e.g. combining gel with leave-in, combining olive oil with leave-in, etc. You can tell if things are going to combine well if you mix them in your hand and they emulsify; if they turn into little balls don't apply. Maybe you could mix your curl cream with the Giovanni gel and see if it works together?

    BTW, as others have said, I think frizz is just something some of us have to live with. My hair will never be smooth and frizz free, but at least these techniques make it livable for me. I have a lot of "high texture grays" (as my stylist says) coming in and no matter what I do these strands do not cooperate! My hair is highlighted which also compounds the porous problem.

    Again, HTH!
  • EnaidysyEnaidysy Posts: 9Registered Users
    Yes, I am using the new BRHG. I was also alarmed by all the negative reviews but it's working well for me. I had also used the old formula. Not really seeing any difference.

    Oops, I meant the Giovanni LA Natural Styling Gel (not sport gel). I believe that's what you are currently using. I really wanted to like this product but after going back and forth between it and BRHG for a while, I can definitely say that the Giovanni caused frizz while BRHG does not.

    I use the Beautiful Curls Enhancing Leave-In Conditioner for wavy to curly hair. I have to use a TON of it. After shampooing with the cowash, conditioning and rinsing out the Nutrafix, I apply the Beautiful Curls and comb with my vent brush with my head upside down. Then I take ANOTHER palmful of it and "squish to condish" it into my hair (head upside down). I don't add extra water, just keep adding conditioner. The curls are pretty clumped at this point. Then I put a dab of BRGH in my palm, add a little water and rub my palms together to kind of thin out the gel, then smooth it over the top and bottom of my hair (again with head upside down). Scrunch it in from the bottom up. Then (with head still hanging down) get out of the shower and use a long-sleeved T-shirt to "plop" my hair in while I dry off and get dressed. IMPORTANT: I do not leave the T-shirt on too long or squeeze any additional water out with it. This leads to frizz for me. After flipping my head back up, if my hair starts to drip I scrunch with my bare hands to try to reincorporate the water. I let it air dry for a while and then usually diffuse dry (ala Pixiecurl). Once dry I put a little olive oil in my palms and SOTC. If it is frizzy at that point I may smooth a little Giovanni Direct Leave-In over the top as described in my previous post.

    One other thing I forgot to mention. If I remember to do it, putting olive oil in my hair before I shampoo and letting it soak in for 30-60 minutes helps a lot with controlling frizz and making my hair curlier and softer. I tried coconut oil but it didn't work. Olive oil is awesome for me. Before bed I also put some olive oil in (praying hands technique) before covering my hair with a satin cap. I don't know if this will work for you since you have fine hair, but my coarse extra-porous, extra-dry hair can take almost as much olive oil as I can put into it. It seems like my hair works best when I do the pre-poo with oil.

    I haven't tried the Beautiful Curls curl cream. Do you recommend it? Do you use it in place of a gel?

    I hear you on not wanting to try a bunch of new products. I have spent a ton of time and money trying stuff. In my experience the expensive, sold online only products didn't work any better than these moderately priced things that I can buy locally. I have been determined to try to use what I buy in some fashion, which led to a lot of experimentation and eventually to what I do now. I will probably still try products once in a while, but for now I am happy to have something that mostly works.

    Oh, and while I am on the subject of experimentation, in an effort to use up what I already had I tried mixing things together ("cocktailing"), e.g. combining gel with leave-in, combining olive oil with leave-in, etc. You can tell if things are going to combine well if you mix them in your hand and they emulsify; if they turn into little balls don't apply. Maybe you could mix your curl cream with the Giovanni gel and see if it works together?

    BTW, as others have said, I think frizz is just something some of us have to live with. My hair will never be smooth and frizz free, but at least these techniques make it livable for me. I have a lot of "high texture grays" (as my stylist says) coming in and no matter what I do these strands do not cooperate! My hair is highlighted which also compounds the porous problem.

    Again, HTH!

    BeachloverinNM,
    Thanks for your application tips. I'll be trying them out soon!

    I actually stopped the Giovanni for a few days and went back to Beautiful Curls defining gel. It does seem a bit less frizz-inducing. The texture is very watery though. So I use a fair bit every wash, and it's slightly tricky to apply. I've lost gobs of it here and there. :tongue5: From the sound of your beautiful curls leave in application, I think they should be a similar consistency. It doesn't smell of anything much to me, but I'd run through the tube much faster than a conventional gel. However, a product that works is worth its weight in gold! Haha. I'm not sure I'd recommend it though, as I'm still new to all this and I want to sort out my non-clumping issue first before I can definitively tell anyone to go and buy it.

    As you suggested, I shall layer the two gels in order to finish them up and hope that the LALSG that is enroute performs a miracle for me.