Tried the twirl-a-clump technique....didnt work

ttoosdayttoosday Registered Users Posts: 509 Curl Connoisseur
I watched some videos today where some curlies used the technique of taking a little bitty section and twirling it around with their fingers and then drawing their finger out of the twirled clump. They do this all over their entire head. I thought maybe this was something that I could do to encourage curl and/or definition since I'm having huge problems with definition right now. I actually took the time to section my hair, which I've literally never done before. I put a curl product on each little section just like in the videos. It has never made sense to me how this technique results in super curly and defined curls...to me the physics of it do not make sense. But I thought what the hell nothing else works. Well all I got was a wasted half hour and flat hair. This did absolutely nothing to define or encourage curls. The only way I could expect this to result in curls for me would be to pin curl each twirl up, and let it dry that way, which would end up looking like Shirley Temple and I wouldn't need to start with wet hair or use a curl cream to do that. But anyways, this technique elongated my waves to almost straight even after scrunching my hands off. Has anybody wavy got this technique to work?
CG since 11/2014
Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
Low density, very coarse, high porosity
Collarbone length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
Typical LEG routine could be any combination of:
Lo poo: Shea Moisture brand shampoo, Ion Hard Water Shampoo
Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
RO: GVP CB, Aussie Mega Moist, Not Your Mothers Gardenia
Leave In: As I Am LI, KCKT, or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
Enhancer: Camille Rose Curl Maker
Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
Protein: Hask Keratin
Styler: Curl Keeper Original, Ouidad Climate Control gel, LA Looks gel

Comments

  • Therese1Therese1 Registered Users Posts: 2,563 Curl Virtuoso
    I didn't have good luck wtih this either. I think that you need curlier hair to pull this off. Otherwise, like you say, you just get straighter hair (that's what happened to me too).
    Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonic; Oribe Cleansing Creme
    RO: IN Harmonic
    LI: CJ Beauticurls; Jessicurl (JC) Gelebration Spray
    DC: JC Deep Conditioning Treatment; Weleda Rosemary Conditioning Oil
    Stylers: JC Confident Coils; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray; John Masters Sea Mist; Bumble Bb. Gel; Kenra Firm-Hold Gel; Sevi Blue Yarrow Sea Salt Spray
    Low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair
  • bomegabomega Registered Users Posts: 1,355 Curl Virtuoso
    Yeah, I saw that video on the nc.com website and I had my doubts. But in some fairness, I'm not sure that technique can make your hair curlier than it is, and I suspect the model in the video probably has more of 3a hair.
    Low-poo: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Shampoo for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Coconut & Shea Hydrating Shampoo
    Clarify: Kinky Curly Come Clean
    Rinse-out: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Conditioner for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Everyday Coconut Ultra Hydrating Conditioner
    DT: Camille Rose Naturals Algae Renew Deep Conditioner
    Leave-in: As I Am Leave-in
    Styler: Lily of the Desert 99% Aloe Vera Gelly
    Treatment: Daily tea spray; Coconut oil overnight treatment; Citric acid rinse for hard water; 2-step Henndigo w/ amla to cover gray

    2C, fine, low porosity, low/medium density, protein sensitive

    Looking for styling products and tools

    iHerb Code KQS149 for 5% off your order
  • Therese1Therese1 Registered Users Posts: 2,563 Curl Virtuoso
    Have you tried the Shea Moisture Curl Enhancing Smoothie? That used to give me great definition. You need just a tiny bit. It has hydrolyzed silk protein in it, but that protein might be OK for coarse hair. I'm just wondering if it's worth trying some protein since your hair seems to lack definition, and if memory serves me, you've been having problems for a while. Maybe try a patch test if you're worried about your hair having a reaction?
    Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonic; Oribe Cleansing Creme
    RO: IN Harmonic
    LI: CJ Beauticurls; Jessicurl (JC) Gelebration Spray
    DC: JC Deep Conditioning Treatment; Weleda Rosemary Conditioning Oil
    Stylers: JC Confident Coils; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray; John Masters Sea Mist; Bumble Bb. Gel; Kenra Firm-Hold Gel; Sevi Blue Yarrow Sea Salt Spray
    Low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair
  • naturecatnaturecat Registered Users Posts: 1,986 Curl Neophyte
    The less manipulation of my hair, the better. I'd say that the curl pattern has to be tighter than 3A, but also helpful if the hair is coarser. My hair is quite fine, and it's definitely 3A in sections (though wavy when wet) and it flattens/pulls curl out when I tried to twirl in the past. My hairdresser used this technique but she has 3C hair.

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • StephC79StephC79 Registered Users Posts: 99 Curl Connoisseur
    I can see this not working for a looser curl, it would just pull it straight. I have 3a hair and it works for me but I don't really need to do it because my hair falls into ringlets naturally but I do this if I have an odd messy curl after plopping.
    3A with tight ringlet underlayer.
    Mixed porosity, medium texture and density.

    Cleaner - Shea Moisture fruit fusion shampoo, Maui Moisture curl quench shampoo, cleansing conditioner.
    Conditioner - L'Oreal Botanicals safflower conditioner.
    P/T - Curl Junkie repair me
    D/T - Shea Moisture manuka honey or fruit fusion mask
    Styling - Paul Mitchell round trip, Paul Mitchell super sculpt glaze, Paul Mitchell sculpting foam.
  • ttoosdayttoosday Registered Users Posts: 509 Curl Connoisseur
    Therese1 wrote: »
    Have you tried the Shea Moisture Curl Enhancing Smoothie? That used to give me great definition. You need just a tiny bit. It has hydrolyzed silk protein in it, but that protein might be OK for coarse hair. I'm just wondering if it's worth trying some protein since your hair seems to lack definition, and if memory serves me, you've been having problems for a while. Maybe try a patch test if you're worried about your hair having a reaction?

    Yes I've tried the curl enhancing smoothie. It just didn't work. Its possible I used to much even though i tried to use very little. I don't know how to distribute a "tiny bit" evenly. I've purposefully used too much to see what would happen, and had to rewash. I found I could distribute a tiny amount of the curl enhancing milk easier but that also didn't do anything. When I say nothing works, I mean that pretty literally. Nothing works. As far as protein...I just don't know. I feel like I've tried protein and I've never seen a difference in curl or wave definition, but maybe even if it is only through the power of suggestion, I feel like I got dry rough results. My LA Looks has protein, my SM Coc & Hib lo poo I think has protein, so I get small amounts every few days. A patch test would be a good idea.

    Well I'm glad I'm not alone in that this twirl technique was a bust. I detangled using a detangling spray first, that was the first time Ive used a detangling spray since going CG. I also tried a new curl defining lotion, the Moroccon Perfect Curl Defining Lotion or something like that. The lotion might work ok without so much twirling, I'll give it another go, but for $9 for 8 oz, (correction $9 for 6 oz) i really really hope it works. I also tried a heat protectant spray for the first time, but it has a cone in it in the top 5, so I'm not sure how i feel about that. Maybe another terrrible combination of products for me. I just don't understand how people can layer on the products like detangler, leave in, oil, curl enhancer/cream, gel, heat protectant, etc etc etc and expect them all to be able to work together but in these videos, they do just that and get such amazing results.

    I totally realize I should have titled this thread "twirl-a-curl." Total missed opportunity there!
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Collarbone length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Typical LEG routine could be any combination of:
    Lo poo: Shea Moisture brand shampoo, Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB, Aussie Mega Moist, Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Leave In: As I Am LI, KCKT, or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Enhancer: Camille Rose Curl Maker
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, Ouidad Climate Control gel, LA Looks gel
  • ttoosdayttoosday Registered Users Posts: 509 Curl Connoisseur
    bomega wrote: »
    Yeah, I saw that video on the nc.com website and I had my doubts. But in some fairness, I'm not sure that technique can make your hair curlier than it is, and I suspect the model in the video probably has more of 3a hair.

    There's a ton of techniques that I havent tried yet, mainly because I just don't have time to sit and manipulate my hair. I didn't expect a tighter curl pattern per se, but I did expect it to do SOMETHING. The little sections didn't hold the twist nor did they even stay clumped in the sections I made.
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Collarbone length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Typical LEG routine could be any combination of:
    Lo poo: Shea Moisture brand shampoo, Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB, Aussie Mega Moist, Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Leave In: As I Am LI, KCKT, or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Enhancer: Camille Rose Curl Maker
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, Ouidad Climate Control gel, LA Looks gel
  • ttoosdayttoosday Registered Users Posts: 509 Curl Connoisseur
    naturecat wrote: »
    The less manipulation of my hair, the better. I'd say that the curl pattern has to be tighter than 3A, but also helpful if the hair is coarser. My hair is quite fine, and it's definitely 3A in sections (though wavy when wet) and it flattens/pulls curl out when I tried to twirl in the past. My hairdresser used this technique but she has 3C hair.

    I'm pretty disappointed. I was hoping it was an easy thing that would be a dramatic difference. it looks like that technique is fantastic at banishing frizz completely, creating tons of shine, and making each clump so singly defined. I can see how smoothing the hair in each section would result in that. But my hair didn't hold the twirl or the clump. I'm so jealous at how the tighter curls cannot be killed with all the twisting and pulling while wet. I'm a curl (and now wave) murderer.
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Collarbone length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Typical LEG routine could be any combination of:
    Lo poo: Shea Moisture brand shampoo, Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB, Aussie Mega Moist, Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Leave In: As I Am LI, KCKT, or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Enhancer: Camille Rose Curl Maker
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, Ouidad Climate Control gel, LA Looks gel
  • Gaby.VintimiGaby.Vintimi Registered Users Posts: 124 Curl Neophyte
    It works for me, what I do is to use a round brush and make the curl, it usually holds all the day and if done dry I get bigger curls. If I only use my finger it works on the tighter ringlets but not on the looser ones. It's also a good technique on day 2. It also depends on the amount of hair you do, It seems thicker sections work best on my hair than thinner, and for some reason it wont always work that depends a lot on the products, hair's moisture and elasticity. Try it with the brush, it isn't brushing just making ringlets with a brush :)
    2c, dense and coarse hair.
  • ttoosdayttoosday Registered Users Posts: 509 Curl Connoisseur
    It works for me, what I do is to use a round brush and make the curl, it usually holds all the day and if done dry I get bigger curls. If I only use my finger it works on the tighter ringlets but not on the looser ones. It's also a good technique on day 2. It also depends on the amount of hair you do, It seems thicker sections work best on my hair than thinner, and for some reason it wont always work that depends a lot on the products, hair's moisture and elasticity. Try it with the brush, it isn't brushing just making ringlets with a brush :)

    You're suggesting using a small diameter round brush? I have a standard size round bristle brush, it has lots of short bristly bristles mixed inbetween the longer plasticy prong bristles. But I almost think using that would drag all the water out of the sections, plus my hair isn't quite long enough to circle around it very many times, and I don't see how it would not create frizz by removing the brush....?
    I'm interested in your suggestion but having a hard time visualizing it.
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Collarbone length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Typical LEG routine could be any combination of:
    Lo poo: Shea Moisture brand shampoo, Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB, Aussie Mega Moist, Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Leave In: As I Am LI, KCKT, or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Enhancer: Camille Rose Curl Maker
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, Ouidad Climate Control gel, LA Looks gel
  • Gaby.VintimiGaby.Vintimi Registered Users Posts: 124 Curl Neophyte
    ttoosday wrote: »
    It works for me, what I do is to use a round brush and make the curl, it usually holds all the day and if done dry I get bigger curls. If I only use my finger it works on the tighter ringlets but not on the looser ones. It's also a good technique on day 2. It also depends on the amount of hair you do, It seems thicker sections work best on my hair than thinner, and for some reason it wont always work that depends a lot on the products, hair's moisture and elasticity. Try it with the brush, it isn't brushing just making ringlets with a brush :)

    You're suggesting using a small diameter round brush? I have a standard size round bristle brush, it has lots of short bristly bristles mixed inbetween the longer plasticy prong bristles. But I almost think using that would drag all the water out of the sections, plus my hair isn't quite long enough to circle around it very many times, and I don't see how it would not create frizz by removing the brush....?
    I'm interested in your suggestion but having a hard time visualizing it.

    I too have a standard round brush, any round brush would do. So what I do is to wash my hair, apply product, scrunch and section my hair without brushes or combs. Then I take a section of hair and starting from the root I twist the brush all the way down to the end, it comes out naturally once you have reached the end. That's it I do it in all or some parts of my hair, and let it air dry. I break it once dry or now that my hair is shorter what I do is to diffuse once my hair is 50-60% dry in that way it breaks and I don't get ringlets.
    It was wash day so I took pics to give you a clear image.

    Making a curl - Album on Imgur
    With your hair washed and product on start from the root and twist the brush in the direction the curl forms (in my case it is clockwise) and let it dry. When wet it looks as if noting happened, like a weird open curl.

    End result - Album on Imgur
    Here is the end result, when my hair was 60% dry I diffused it to break the curls except for the bangs, I left it untouched so you can see how it ends.
    This works better on long hair, as you can start from the middle and get pretty curls, for short hair is best to break the pattern a little so the curls have more movement.
    Hope this helps you get more definition.
    2c, dense and coarse hair.
  • ttoosdayttoosday Registered Users Posts: 509 Curl Connoisseur
    ttoosday wrote: »
    It works for me, what I do is to use a round brush and make the curl, it usually holds all the day and if done dry I get bigger curls. If I only use my finger it works on the tighter ringlets but not on the looser ones. It's also a good technique on day 2. It also depends on the amount of hair you do, It seems thicker sections work best on my hair than thinner, and for some reason it wont always work that depends a lot on the products, hair's moisture and elasticity. Try it with the brush, it isn't brushing just making ringlets with a brush :)

    You're suggesting using a small diameter round brush? I have a standard size round bristle brush, it has lots of short bristly bristles mixed inbetween the longer plasticy prong bristles. But I almost think using that would drag all the water out of the sections, plus my hair isn't quite long enough to circle around it very many times, and I don't see how it would not create frizz by removing the brush....?
    I'm interested in your suggestion but having a hard time visualizing it.

    I too have a standard round brush, any round brush would do. So what I do is to wash my hair, apply product, scrunch and section my hair without brushes or combs. Then I take a section of hair and starting from the root I twist the brush all the way down to the end, it comes out naturally once you have reached the end. That's it I do it in all or some parts of my hair, and let it air dry. I break it once dry or now that my hair is shorter what I do is to diffuse once my hair is 50-60% dry in that way it breaks and I don't get ringlets.
    It was wash day so I took pics to give you a clear image.

    Making a curl - Album on Imgur
    With your hair washed and product on start from the root and twist the brush in the direction the curl forms (in my case it is clockwise) and let it dry. When wet it looks as if noting happened, like a weird open curl.

    End result - Album on Imgur
    Here is the end result, when my hair was 60% dry I diffused it to break the curls except for the bangs, I left it untouched so you can see how it ends.
    This works better on long hair, as you can start from the middle and get pretty curls, for short hair is best to break the pattern a little so the curls have more movement.
    Hope this helps you get more definition.

    OOOOHH I see! Very helpful, thank you! And very nice resulting curls, I might add. Cute pics. This is definitely on my to-do list for the weekend. Do you find that any particular kind of styler works better than others for this technique, like would you recommend a cream or a gel or something particular? I may go ahead and apply my hard hold gel over whatever defining product I use and then have this be the very last thing I do before drying.
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Collarbone length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Typical LEG routine could be any combination of:
    Lo poo: Shea Moisture brand shampoo, Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB, Aussie Mega Moist, Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Leave In: As I Am LI, KCKT, or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Enhancer: Camille Rose Curl Maker
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, Ouidad Climate Control gel, LA Looks gel
  • naturecatnaturecat Registered Users Posts: 1,986 Curl Neophyte
    O/T, but we're hair pattern twins Gaby Vintimi. I haven't met anyone who had those big barrel curls before. I don't use a brush--I just squeeze the water out of my hair, spray with all natural hairspray, and diffuse. But the end result is quite similar.
    ttoosday wrote: »
    It works for me, what I do is to use a round brush and make the curl, it usually holds all the day and if done dry I get bigger curls. If I only use my finger it works on the tighter ringlets but not on the looser ones. It's also a good technique on day 2. It also depends on the amount of hair you do, It seems thicker sections work best on my hair than thinner, and for some reason it wont always work that depends a lot on the products, hair's moisture and elasticity. Try it with the brush, it isn't brushing just making ringlets with a brush :)

    You're suggesting using a small diameter round brush? I have a standard size round bristle brush, it has lots of short bristly bristles mixed inbetween the longer plasticy prong bristles. But I almost think using that would drag all the water out of the sections, plus my hair isn't quite long enough to circle around it very many times, and I don't see how it would not create frizz by removing the brush....?
    I'm interested in your suggestion but having a hard time visualizing it.

    I too have a standard round brush, any round brush would do. So what I do is to wash my hair, apply product, scrunch and section my hair without brushes or combs. Then I take a section of hair and starting from the root I twist the brush all the way down to the end, it comes out naturally once you have reached the end. That's it I do it in all or some parts of my hair, and let it air dry. I break it once dry or now that my hair is shorter what I do is to diffuse once my hair is 50-60% dry in that way it breaks and I don't get ringlets.
    It was wash day so I took pics to give you a clear image.

    Making a curl - Album on Imgur
    With your hair washed and product on start from the root and twist the brush in the direction the curl forms (in my case it is clockwise) and let it dry. When wet it looks as if noting happened, like a weird open curl.

    End result - Album on Imgur
    Here is the end result, when my hair was 60% dry I diffused it to break the curls except for the bangs, I left it untouched so you can see how it ends.
    This works better on long hair, as you can start from the middle and get pretty curls, for short hair is best to break the pattern a little so the curls have more movement.
    Hope this helps you get more definition.

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • Gaby.VintimiGaby.Vintimi Registered Users Posts: 124 Curl Neophyte
    naturecat wrote: »
    O/T, but we're hair pattern twins Gaby Vintimi. I haven't met anyone who had those big barrel curls before. I don't use a brush--I just squeeze the water out of my hair, spray with all natural hairspray, and diffuse. But the end result is quite similar.
    ttoosday wrote: »

    You're suggesting using a small diameter round brush? I have a standard size round bristle brush, it has lots of short bristly bristles mixed inbetween the longer plasticy prong bristles. But I almost think using that would drag all the water out of the sections, plus my hair isn't quite long enough to circle around it very many times, and I don't see how it would not create frizz by removing the brush....?
    I'm interested in your suggestion but having a hard time visualizing it.

    I too have a standard round brush, any round brush would do. So what I do is to wash my hair, apply product, scrunch and section my hair without brushes or combs. Then I take a section of hair and starting from the root I twist the brush all the way down to the end, it comes out naturally once you have reached the end. That's it I do it in all or some parts of my hair, and let it air dry. I break it once dry or now that my hair is shorter what I do is to diffuse once my hair is 50-60% dry in that way it breaks and I don't get ringlets.
    It was wash day so I took pics to give you a clear image.

    Making a curl - Album on Imgur
    With your hair washed and product on start from the root and twist the brush in the direction the curl forms (in my case it is clockwise) and let it dry. When wet it looks as if noting happened, like a weird open curl.

    End result - Album on Imgur
    Here is the end result, when my hair was 60% dry I diffused it to break the curls except for the bangs, I left it untouched so you can see how it ends.
    This works better on long hair, as you can start from the middle and get pretty curls, for short hair is best to break the pattern a little so the curls have more movement.
    Hope this helps you get more definition.


    I know! there are not many with that pattern and you might as well be the first one I meet. If I let it dry all naturally it curls like that in some sections and others not, so the brush helps to unify all my hair.
    2c, dense and coarse hair.
  • Gaby.VintimiGaby.Vintimi Registered Users Posts: 124 Curl Neophyte
    ttoosday wrote: »
    ttoosday wrote: »

    You're suggesting using a small diameter round brush? I have a standard size round bristle brush, it has lots of short bristly bristles mixed inbetween the longer plasticy prong bristles. But I almost think using that would drag all the water out of the sections, plus my hair isn't quite long enough to circle around it very many times, and I don't see how it would not create frizz by removing the brush....?
    I'm interested in your suggestion but having a hard time visualizing it.

    I too have a standard round brush, any round brush would do. So what I do is to wash my hair, apply product, scrunch and section my hair without brushes or combs. Then I take a section of hair and starting from the root I twist the brush all the way down to the end, it comes out naturally once you have reached the end. That's it I do it in all or some parts of my hair, and let it air dry. I break it once dry or now that my hair is shorter what I do is to diffuse once my hair is 50-60% dry in that way it breaks and I don't get ringlets.
    It was wash day so I took pics to give you a clear image.

    Making a curl - Album on Imgur
    With your hair washed and product on start from the root and twist the brush in the direction the curl forms (in my case it is clockwise) and let it dry. When wet it looks as if noting happened, like a weird open curl.

    End result - Album on Imgur
    Here is the end result, when my hair was 60% dry I diffused it to break the curls except for the bangs, I left it untouched so you can see how it ends.
    This works better on long hair, as you can start from the middle and get pretty curls, for short hair is best to break the pattern a little so the curls have more movement.
    Hope this helps you get more definition.

    OOOOHH I see! Very helpful, thank you! And very nice resulting curls, I might add. Cute pics. This is definitely on my to-do list for the weekend. Do you find that any particular kind of styler works better than others for this technique, like would you recommend a cream or a gel or something particular? I may go ahead and apply my hard hold gel over whatever defining product I use and then have this be the very last thing I do before drying.

    I find that weather (humidity) and conditioning works best than any styling product. If it's dry outside and my hair is dry I can't get it to work, so conditioning is a must, I let the conditioner sit for 5-10 min. At the moment all I use for styling is coconut oil, medium hold gel and to manipulate my hair and final touch to reduce frizz a bit of curl cream. I have notice mousse won't work as good as a gel or styling cream. If your hair looses definition easily then you might consider using a strong hold gel :)
    2c, dense and coarse hair.
  • naturecatnaturecat Registered Users Posts: 1,986 Curl Neophyte
    Oh, wow I have the same problem too! Some days I get big barrel curls all around but my hair is too short in some sections to curl and other parts it's just growing in weirdly. It's interesting the brush technique equalizes the pattern. I would love that. But I'm still not quite sure how you do it. I gotta read your eplanation again.

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • Gaby.VintimiGaby.Vintimi Registered Users Posts: 124 Curl Neophyte
    naturecat wrote: »
    Oh, wow I have the same problem too! Some days I get big barrel curls all around but my hair is too short in some sections to curl and other parts it's just growing in weirdly. It's interesting the brush technique equalizes the pattern. I would love that. But I'm still not quite sure how you do it. I gotta read your eplanation again.

    I know the feeling, of growing weirdly or being to short that they sort of make a turn and create more volume than anything. I have found useful to fix those problems with the brush. Don't think too much about it, by instinct you will know how to do it. Start from the roots and twist the brush all the way to end. :)
    2c, dense and coarse hair.
  • WavycatWavycat Registered Users Posts: 325 Curl Connoisseur
    Hey ttosday! I'm curious if you got this to work?
    I have gotten the Skip Curl to work pretty well but beyond that everything else is a bust. The brush sounds promising. Tonight is wash night so if I remember I will try it. Nothing I try works. My hair is longer and it's still curls for a nanosecond and then it's just frizz and more frizz. I keep trying protein too here and there and different kinds but nothing. It's to the point that I have just bunning or braiding it and forgetting it.
    SE PA
    2C/3A med, med density,med elasticity, high porosity color-treated
    No Poo: various VO5s testing Gliss Volumizing (keratin) for summer
    Citric acid rinse or vinegar
    RO: SM Honey Mask with agave
    Conditioner only styling with water, water and more water, or jojoba + SM Superfruit
    Styler: KCCC or Ecostyler Olive Oil occasionally
    Love most oils but can't use CO in winter
  • ttoosdayttoosday Registered Users Posts: 509 Curl Connoisseur
    Wavycat wrote: »
    Hey ttosday! I'm curious if you got this to work?
    I have gotten the Skip Curl to work pretty well but beyond that everything else is a bust. The brush sounds promising. Tonight is wash night so if I remember I will try it. Nothing I try works. My hair is longer and it's still curls for a nanosecond and then it's just frizz and more frizz. I keep trying protein too here and there and different kinds but nothing. It's to the point that I have just bunning or braiding it and forgetting it.

    Hi!! Honestly I haven't even tried the brush method yet. We had a couple of days of terrible dews that happened to fall on wash days, so I didn't even bother testing any method those days, and then I went out of town for a weekend and that wasted a wash day, and then this week I have been getting a suspiciously decent result with a new product, so I am really trying to give that several more applications to see if it continues to work over time or it is a couple of flukes in a row.

    I have always been frustrated with new products or methods because wash days are so far inbetween that I cant remember what I did last or what I wanted to do next. Plus by the time 2 or 3 days passes the weather is all different, and there's likely buildup by then and my next wash will need to be a clarify, or I've convinced myself its hard water so I'll feel compelled to chelate or do a protein tx...its just really hard for me to gauge if and when anything worked more than once (or why it didnt work) because I can never get a certain set of circumstances to be repeated exactly. Ugh.
    I know I cant be the only one who feels that way.

    I got off on a tangent. Anyway, to answer your question, I haven't even tried it yet but I am keeping it in my mind to try one of these wash days. Maybe a wash day when I can rewet and restyle if I don't like what I get out of it.

    I will say that I have heard a tip a few times now, once or twice by PolishedCurl and once by real life+curly girl in a recent video - to scrunch each product in until I cant feel it anymore before going to the next one. Have you tried this? I suspect that might help my waves a little bit, but not sure enough to swear by it yet. That may help if you haven't been doing that already.
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Collarbone length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Typical LEG routine could be any combination of:
    Lo poo: Shea Moisture brand shampoo, Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB, Aussie Mega Moist, Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Leave In: As I Am LI, KCKT, or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Enhancer: Camille Rose Curl Maker
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, Ouidad Climate Control gel, LA Looks gel
  • la_ninonla_ninon Registered Users Posts: 118 Curl Neophyte
    I used to do this years ago, before discovering CG. It helped consolidate my waves and reduce frizz, resulting in 2Bish hair. By using the CG methods, I easily get 2C/3A waves, spirals, and ringlets. So I would say it's a fine technique for wavies, it just depends on what look you're after.
    Lo Poo: MOP Hydrating Shampoo
    Leave-Ins: CJ Beauticurls, Briogeo Rosarco Spray
    Rinse-Outs: Intelligent Nutrients Harmonic Conditioner, Garnier Fructis Sleek & Shine
    Stylers: L'Oreal Out of Bed Texturizer, Bumble & Bumble Bb. Gel, Yarok Hair Whip, Davines Volu Spray
    Treatments: ACV rinse, CJ Curl Rehab, caffeine solution spray

    2C-3A, fine, low-medium porosity, low-medium density, sensitive scalp, protein-sensitive
  • WavycatWavycat Registered Users Posts: 325 Curl Connoisseur
    I got lucky that wash day was right there or I would've forgotten all about it. I did try it but my hair is too long but I think it would work on shorter hair for me because that's how I used to blow dry my hair before...by twisting it around the brush while pulling it down. But it reminded me to do a few skip-curls and that worked well still. I got daring and pulled out my generic CK and tried it for the bajillionth time and it was ok.
    SE PA
    2C/3A med, med density,med elasticity, high porosity color-treated
    No Poo: various VO5s testing Gliss Volumizing (keratin) for summer
    Citric acid rinse or vinegar
    RO: SM Honey Mask with agave
    Conditioner only styling with water, water and more water, or jojoba + SM Superfruit
    Styler: KCCC or Ecostyler Olive Oil occasionally
    Love most oils but can't use CO in winter
  • naturecatnaturecat Registered Users Posts: 1,986 Curl Neophyte
    Hey wavy cat. One thing you may want to try.... may break totally off base for you, but it may work (I think we're something of pattern twins) is simplifying everything. Us fine haired people get build up easily which locks us into a vicious cycle of washing and drying and pulling out the curls. Right now I'm doing two things; scrunching my hair gently when diffusing to break up the gel cast (this not only prevents the diffuser from traumatizing my hair and making it bend weirdly, it also helps volume tremendously), and also being minimal with product and washing. I'm only using an all natural spray for hold and some conditioner mixed with water for leave in. I used to do hair treatments, but am finding that especially in the summer, there's too much build up. So with using less products, I need to wash less, with less shampoo. If I do need shampoo, I just scrunch it in gently and let water wash it down the lengths. I also follow up with ACV (since my water is full of calcium carbonate). That's enough to get rid of any buildup. I'm getting more and more 3A around my head consistently and curls where there were none before. Less is more sometimes. While your routine is simple, maybe the KCCC or Ecostyler is too much for your hair in the summer. John Master's mousse seemed to leave a weird residue on my hair; could be that the hairspray has the same issue (for you).

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • sammycaressammycares Registered Users Posts: 1
    I cut my hair really short like a boy. An amazing product that grew my hair waist length was an all natural product I bought on ebay. It's literally did magic and my hair grew so much because it's all natural. The secret to hair growth is all natural products such as this one: THIS WILL MAKE YOUR HAIR GROW FAST | eBay
  • WavycatWavycat Registered Users Posts: 325 Curl Connoisseur
    First, I'm sure not touching the link from SammyCares!
    Thanks Naturecat. I sorry for the late reply but I lost my reply 3 times. My fault, not NC's(this time).
    My hair seems to like heavier things. It loves EVOO on the ends and curl creams slathered on. You did give me some things to think about so I'm currently trying a light leave-in (I need something to give my hair weight) and 1 golfball size of mousse. It's ok for a bit but today I did get lots of frizz. Frizz, frizz, always frizz. Maybe because all around my edge front and back I am going white. Resistant white that is more coarse. I don't know; I'm trying but it seems easier to discourage the curls. A little leave-in and a damp bun or braid is easier but not as enjoyable. I hardly ever wear it down anymore. I use diluted shampoo, either ACV or citric acid rinse (hard water too). I've tried protein, fatty alcohols, cheleated, clarified, numerous gels, herbs, teas and it still seems the same. I have had better luck with SM Manuka Honey w/ Mafura Oil and I add some Agave to it and it helps.
    I don't really use the KCCC or Ecostyler but I can get ok results with it finally. Conditioner Only styling is still my favorite followed by some mousse. I want a gel cast and I never get it. It soaks right into my hair. Conditioner or mousse will give me a cast. Without the cast my hands go right to my hair. I do pre poo oilings or slather conditioner on prior to washing. The John Masters worked for a couple of times and then was a bust. Maybe it's only good in the winter. I don't know. Anyway, for the next couple of weeks I will experiment with less product. I am skipping my R/O and just using my LI. Thanks for the new experiment though.
    SE PA
    2C/3A med, med density,med elasticity, high porosity color-treated
    No Poo: various VO5s testing Gliss Volumizing (keratin) for summer
    Citric acid rinse or vinegar
    RO: SM Honey Mask with agave
    Conditioner only styling with water, water and more water, or jojoba + SM Superfruit
    Styler: KCCC or Ecostyler Olive Oil occasionally
    Love most oils but can't use CO in winter
  • naturecatnaturecat Registered Users Posts: 1,986 Curl Neophyte
    I'm sorry you're struggling wavy cat.

    Something else that helps--only scrunching in water when washing hair. Putting my head under the shower flattens out the curl. So if you have good curl formation anywhere, do as little as possible to it.

    Maybe the IN hairspray would give you a cast? It's super hard hold. I have to break up the cast it gives me. I'm going to guess that the mousse doesn't give you enough hold hence the frizz. You might need gel or something else hard hold ish over it. I've found the spray to be a good compromise... strong, yet light. Though our hair seems opposite (mine hates weight), but you never know. The later in the drying process you add it, or any other style, the harder the hold and the more gel cast you get (though you probably already know that). If not then maybe try a gel over your mousse.

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • naturecatnaturecat Registered Users Posts: 1,986 Curl Neophyte
    I'm sorry you're struggling wavy cat.

    Something else that helps--only scrunching in water when washing hair. Putting my head under the shower flattens out the curl. So if you have good curl formation anywhere, do as little as possible to it.

    Maybe the IN hairspray would give you a cast? It's super hard hold. I have to break up the cast it gives me. I'm going to guess that the mousse doesn't give you enough hold hence the frizz. You might need gel or something else hard hold ish over it. I've found the spray to be a good compromise... strong, yet light. Though our hair seems opposite (mine hates weight), but you never know. The later in the drying process you add it, or any other style, the harder the hold and the more gel cast you get (though you probably already know that). If not then maybe try a gel over your mousse.

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • AshleyMarie96AshleyMarie96 Registered Users Posts: 2
    I have, I usually do this after I've washed my hair on damp hair, the only product I use is L'Oreal Tangle Tamer for kids (I'm not a kid but it still works). On some of my hair I find that I need to twirl it in a different direction to define the curl and if I use the incorrect direction it actually loosens the curls for me. I recommend trying a different direction, it will feel weird but I might produce the results you're looking for.

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