Ready to embrace my natural hair. Help?

R2G2R2G2 Registered Users Posts: 7
I have thick, wavy 2b/2c, medium texture, low porosity. I usually don't use conditioner because after my hair dries out, it still looks greasy and weighted like I didn't wash it in three or more days. The "it's a ten" leave-in conditioner added while hair was damp served to work great as long as I blow dried after (which I hate doing because it takes so long).

I'm just trying to figure out a style and care routine for my natural hair because down here by Savannah, GA I walk outside and it's poofy, fizz fest, and nothing I've done for the past year and a half has worked. My mom just asked last week when she visited, "are you going to wash your hair before dinner?" I just washed it this morning. "Oh are you at least gonna run a brush through it?" You just watched me brush it with the brush from my purse.

I'm 2b I guess (minimal lift at roots, body in the center, S's at the ends) but when there is nothing on the bottom hair it curls to the 2c range especially if it's hot and humid out.

SN: every stylist i see all ways straightens, layers and mousses my roots even when i site them the picture of wavy curls (which I know my hair can do kinds like beach waves). Only to be responded with "you're hair is wavy with enough curl to be annoying it's best to straighten it with body for you. Besides those curls in the photo are from an iron or curling wand"

Comments

  • Therese1Therese1 Registered Users Posts: 2,563 Curl Virtuoso
    I'm sorry that you're getting some ignorant responses from your family. That's irritating. Wavy and curly hair is definitely a challenge, even now when there are so many resources.

    I'm thinking a few things:

    1. Have you ever tried a deep conditioning treatment? Low-porosity hair has difficulty getting moisture into the hair shaft, and as a result, stuff just sits on top, making the hair look greasy. I would suggest clarifying with a sulfate shampoo (most of us on the board clarify with a sulfate shampoo around once a month) and then using your regular conditioner as a deep treatment. Put the conditioner on your hair as usual, and then cover your head with a plastic cap and then wrap a towel on top of it (to hold in body heat). Let it sit for 10-30 minutes, and then rinse out as usual and style. I know it's a pain, but please try it just once. I hate the extra work, but it really makes a difference.

    2. I would avoid silicones and sulfates (except for the odd sulfate shampoo, as mentioned above). These will weigh down and dry out your hair.

    3. As for the frizz fest, many people find that glycerin and sometimes aloe, if near the top of the ingredients for a product, cause lots of problems in humidity. These ingredients are OK in a shampoo or a rinse-out conditioner, but they are generally trouble for anything that stays in the hair (leave-in, styling gel, etc.)

    4. Brushing the hair actually creates more frizz and can harm the hair shaft, which is more fragile in curly hair. One of the big "curly commandments" is not to brush the hair. The hair usually benefits from as little manipulation as possible once it is styled and ready for drying.

    I would highly recommend reading the book "Curly Girl" by Lorraine Massey. She talks about various techniques for dealing with curly hair. She recommends co-washing (washing hair with conditioner instead of shampoo), but if your hair is low porosity, you will probably do better with a gentle shampooing twice a week or so.

    I would also recommend reading the Science-y Hair Blog. She has an amazing amount of information regarding ingredients in hair products and how to pick what will work for your hair. Some of my other faves are RockynCurls (blog and YouTube channel) and the Polished Curl. They have demos of techniques that you can experiment with. And of course, there is lots of info on this site.

    IMO, getting your hair to behave is due to two factors: finding the right products, and using the best technique for your hair. And these things take time, as they are the result of trial and error. A lot of us on this site have product graveyards of products that didn't work, or that worked for a while and no longer work, etc. And we are constantly trying new techniques to get the most out of our waves. I have been wearing my hair natural for 3-4 years and am still learning!

    Your stylist is right, by the way. Almost all the pics you find on the Internet of celebs and models with curly hair have hair that was blow-dried straight and then had a curling iron taken to it. But if you are getting 2c curls without really having much in the way of technique, I wouldn't be surprised if you end up with some very pronounced curls once you have some tricks under your belt.
    Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonic; Oribe Cleansing Creme
    RO: IN Harmonic
    LI: CJ Beauticurls; Jessicurl (JC) Gelebration Spray
    DC: JC Deep Conditioning Treatment; Weleda Rosemary Conditioning Oil
    Stylers: JC Confident Coils; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray; John Masters Sea Mist; Bumble Bb. Gel; Kenra Firm-Hold Gel; Sevi Blue Yarrow Sea Salt Spray
    Low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair
  • Therese1Therese1 Registered Users Posts: 2,563 Curl Virtuoso
    I'm sorry that you're getting some ignorant responses from your family. That's irritating. Wavy and curly hair is definitely a challenge, even now when there are so many resources.

    I'm thinking a few things:

    1. Have you ever tried a deep conditioning treatment? Low-porosity hair has difficulty getting moisture into the hair shaft, and as a result, stuff just sits on top, making the hair look greasy. I would suggest clarifying with a sulfate shampoo (most of us on the board clarify with a sulfate shampoo around once a month) and then using your regular conditioner as a deep treatment. Put the conditioner on your hair as usual, and then cover your head with a plastic cap and then wrap a towel on top of it (to hold in body heat). Let it sit for 10-30 minutes, and then rinse out as usual and style. I know it's a pain, but please try it just once. I hate the extra work, but it really makes a difference.

    2. I would avoid silicones and sulfates (except for the odd sulfate shampoo, as mentioned above). These will weigh down and dry out your hair.

    3. As for the frizz fest, many people find that glycerin and sometimes aloe, if near the top of the ingredients for a product, cause lots of problems in humidity. These ingredients are OK in a shampoo or a rinse-out conditioner, but they are generally trouble for anything that stays in the hair (leave-in, styling gel, etc.)

    4. Brushing the hair actually creates more frizz and can harm the hair shaft, which is more fragile in curly hair. One of the big "curly commandments" is not to brush the hair. The hair usually benefits from as little manipulation as possible once it is styled and ready for drying.

    I would highly recommend reading the book "Curly Girl" by Lorraine Massey. She talks about various techniques for dealing with curly hair. She recommends co-washing (washing hair with conditioner instead of shampoo), but if your hair is low porosity, you will probably do better with a gentle shampooing twice a week or so.

    I would also recommend reading the Science-y Hair Blog. She has an amazing amount of information regarding ingredients in hair products and how to pick what will work for your hair. Some of my other faves are RockynCurls (blog and YouTube channel) and the Polished Curl. They have demos of techniques that you can experiment with. And of course, there is lots of info on this site.

    IMO, getting your hair to behave is due to two factors: finding the right products, and using the best technique for your hair. And these things take time, as they are the result of trial and error. A lot of us on this site have product graveyards of products that didn't work, or that worked for a while and no longer work, etc. And we are constantly trying new techniques to get the most out of our waves. I have been wearing my hair natural for 3-4 years and am still learning!

    Your stylist is right, by the way. Almost all the pics you find on the Internet of celebs and models with curly hair have hair that was blow-dried straight and then had a curling iron taken to it. But if you are getting 2c curls without really having much in the way of technique, I wouldn't be surprised if you end up with some very pronounced curls once you have some tricks under your belt.
    Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonic; Oribe Cleansing Creme
    RO: IN Harmonic
    LI: CJ Beauticurls; Jessicurl (JC) Gelebration Spray
    DC: JC Deep Conditioning Treatment; Weleda Rosemary Conditioning Oil
    Stylers: JC Confident Coils; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray; John Masters Sea Mist; Bumble Bb. Gel; Kenra Firm-Hold Gel; Sevi Blue Yarrow Sea Salt Spray
    Low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair
  • R2G2R2G2 Registered Users Posts: 7
    Thank you so much for your advice! I haven't bought the book but I have dug through the articles on this site, this forum, and watched several curlygirl YouTubers as well as read some of their blogs (like you suggested ��). I have just gone and bought my first products and will test them tonight!

    I tried the curlygirl method yesterday with my Paul Mitchell shampoo and conditioner but it didn't work out too nice. My shampoo has a lot of sulfate and my conditioner just sits on my hair. Though I did gain a lot more curl and wave than I thought I would.

    So I'm gonna try kinky curly come clean shampoo once a week, Shea moisture baobab & tea tree oils conditioner for low porosity hair, and herbal essences totally twisted curl scrunching gel.

    I even bought lavish curls moisturizer 2nd curl refresher Incase I need something in between washes.

    Of course this is the start-up so I'll refrain from the day 2 refresher until next week to see how my hair handles the Shea moisture and herbal essences.
  • R2G2R2G2 Registered Users Posts: 7
    Thank you so much for your advice! I haven't bought the book but I have dug through the articles on this site, this forum, and watched several curlygirl YouTubers as well as read some of their blogs (like you suggested 😁). I have just gone and bought my first products and will test them tonight!

    I tried the curlygirl method yesterday with my Paul Mitchell shampoo and conditioner but it didn't work out too nice. My shampoo has a lot of sulfate and my conditioner just sits on my hair. Though I did gain a lot more curl and wave than I thought I would.

    So I'm gonna try kinky curly come clean shampoo once a week, Shea moisture baobab & tea tree oils conditioner for low porosity hair, and herbal essences totally twisted curl scrunching gel.

    I even bought lavish curls moisturizer 2nd curl refresher Incase I need something in between washes.

    Of course this is the start-up so I'll refrain from the day 2 refresher until next week to see how my hair handles the Shea moisture and herbal essences.
  • bomegabomega Registered Users Posts: 1,355 Curl Virtuoso
    Hi RGB2, Welcome to the boards. I'm pretty new to the curltalk boards too, and have been looking at new styling options. Not sure if you want to avoid silicones, but if you do, I think that Herbal Essences Curl Scrunching Gel might have silicones in it. I've been looking heaviliy into styling products lately...I think some common inexpensive favorites around here seems to be Biolage Rock Hard Gellee and LA Looks Sports Gel, and they don't seem to have 'cones. Good luck with your search.
    Low-poo: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Shampoo for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Coconut & Shea Hydrating Shampoo
    Clarify: Kinky Curly Come Clean
    Rinse-out: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Conditioner for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Everyday Coconut Ultra Hydrating Conditioner
    DT: Camille Rose Naturals Algae Renew Deep Conditioner
    Leave-in: As I Am Leave-in
    Styler: Lily of the Desert 99% Aloe Vera Gelly
    Treatment: Daily tea spray; Coconut oil overnight treatment; Citric acid rinse for hard water; 2-step Henndigo w/ amla to cover gray

    2C, fine, low porosity, low/medium density, protein sensitive

    Looking for styling products and tools

    iHerb Code KQS149 for 5% off your order
  • R2G2R2G2 Registered Users Posts: 7
    Hi bomega!

    I am trying to avoid silicones and I actually found the gel by herbal essences here on naturally curly in an article.

    I tested it tonight, which I was hesitant to do because I feel that gels weigh down my hair, and made my hair limp and dull. So out of curiosity I used the refresher I bought earlier in my hand (comes out in a stream instead of a spray) and worked it into my hair. It seemed to have undone the effects of the gel, lifted, and curled my hair. Minimal crunch and scrunch.

    Good luck with your hair endeavors!
    Btw do you know what silicones are listed as in the ingredients list?
  • R2G2R2G2 Registered Users Posts: 7
    Hi bomega!

    I am trying to avoid silicones and I actually found the gel by herbal essences here on naturally curly in an article.

    I tested it tonight, which I was hesitant to do because I feel that gels weigh down my hair, and made my hair limp and dull. So out of curiosity I used the refresher I bought earlier in my hand (comes out in a stream instead of a spray) and worked it into my hair. It seemed to have undone the effects of the gel, lifted, and curled my hair. Minimal crunch and scrunch.

    Good luck with your hair endeavors!
    Btw do you know what silicones are listed as in the ingredients list?
  • bomegabomega Registered Users Posts: 1,355 Curl Virtuoso
    Dimethicone is listed as an ingredient. It's kind of low on the list but still there. Yeah, the nc.com store sell products with silicones because not everyone is affected very negatively by them. Some curlies can take the sulfates to clean them, and like the effect. The Herbal Essences Body Envy Weightless Volumizing Gel looks like it is silicone free if you wanted to stick with the brand. In the nc.com shop, you can use the search options to help out.

    Finding silicones in a list can be tricky. Here is the basics: https://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/products-ingredients/10-silicones-in-curly-hair-products-to-avoid/
    Here is the advanced training: https://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/curlchemist-silicone-or-not-whats-in-a-name/

    I gave up silicones in 2004 and never looked back. Anyway, I'm curious about your hair journey because I have 2c hair and I used to live in the South. Gels in general didn't work for my hair in those days, but my hair used to be more of a consistent 3a back then and would curl and clump reliably, and I could get by using a little oil or the Aveda Anti-humectent pomade to control frizz. If/when I go back now...well, it would be a challenge.
    Low-poo: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Shampoo for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Coconut & Shea Hydrating Shampoo
    Clarify: Kinky Curly Come Clean
    Rinse-out: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Conditioner for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Everyday Coconut Ultra Hydrating Conditioner
    DT: Camille Rose Naturals Algae Renew Deep Conditioner
    Leave-in: As I Am Leave-in
    Styler: Lily of the Desert 99% Aloe Vera Gelly
    Treatment: Daily tea spray; Coconut oil overnight treatment; Citric acid rinse for hard water; 2-step Henndigo w/ amla to cover gray

    2C, fine, low porosity, low/medium density, protein sensitive

    Looking for styling products and tools

    iHerb Code KQS149 for 5% off your order
  • R2G2R2G2 Registered Users Posts: 7
    bomega wrote: »
    Dimethicone is listed as an ingredient. It's kind of low on the list but still there. Yeah, the nc.com store sell products with silicones because not everyone is affected very negatively by them. Some curlies can take the sulfates to clean them, and like the effect. The Herbal Essences Body Envy Weightless Volumizing Gel looks like it is silicone free if you wanted to stick with the brand. In the nc.com shop, you can use the search options to help out.

    Finding silicones in a list can be tricky. Here is the basics: https://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/products-ingredients/10-silicones-in-curly-hair-products-to-avoid/
    Here is the advanced training: https://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/curlchemist-silicone-or-not-whats-in-a-name/

    I gave up silicones in 2004 and never looked back. Anyway, I'm curious about your hair journey because I have 2c hair and I used to live in the South. Gels in general didn't work for my hair in those days, but my hair used to be more of a consistent 3a back then and would curl and clump reliably, and I could get by using a little oil or the Aveda Anti-humectent pomade to control frizz. If/when I go back now...well, it would be a challenge.
    I checked it again and now understand what to look for. Thank you.

    I just bought the herbal essences mousse version of that gel. I'll see how it works out tomorrow and get back to you.
  • R2G2R2G2 Registered Users Posts: 7
    bomega wrote: »
    Dimethicone is listed as an ingredient. It's kind of low on the list but still there. Yeah, the nc.com store sell products with silicones because not everyone is affected very negatively by them. Some curlies can take the sulfates to clean them, and like the effect. The Herbal Essences Body Envy Weightless Volumizing Gel looks like it is silicone free if you wanted to stick with the brand. In the nc.com shop, you can use the search options to help out.

    Finding silicones in a list can be tricky. Here is the basics: https://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/products-ingredients/10-silicones-in-curly-hair-products-to-avoid/
    Here is the advanced training: https://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/curlchemist-silicone-or-not-whats-in-a-name/

    I gave up silicones in 2004 and never looked back. Anyway, I'm curious about your hair journey because I have 2c hair and I used to live in the South. Gels in general didn't work for my hair in those days, but my hair used to be more of a consistent 3a back then and would curl and clump reliably, and I could get by using a little oil or the Aveda Anti-humectent pomade to control frizz. If/when I go back now...well, it would be a challenge.
    I checked it again and now understand what to look for. Thank you.

    I just bought the herbal essences mousse version of that gel. I'll see how it works out tomorrow and get back to you.
  • JN987JN987 Registered Users Posts: 5
    I would stay away from moisturizing conditioners as they can be too heavy. You could try some lighter conditioners maybe some that say volumizing since they are not too heavy. I am using Living Proof no frizz conditioner and also Suave Coconut botanicals, and both are light weight. Make sure to not put it on your scalp just your ends and to rinse them all the way out. It could be your water is not rinsing them all out. Do you have very hard water?

    I agree try not to brush your hair as that will make it frizzy. If you can control the frizz then it won't look like it needs to be brushed. CG recommends a wide tooth comb in the shower with conditioner on your hair, and not brushing again. If you have to brush at other times only use a wide tooth comb.

    You scalp might be producing too much oil if you were washing frequently with sulfates. Make sure your shampoo is sulfate free. Use a dry shampoo. That is perfect for those afternoons when it looks a bit greasy. Just spray with a little dry shampoo to absorb the oil. I like the batiste dry shampoo. If you have dark hair you can get the dark one so that it doesn't show up white.

    I would only go to stylists that are comfortable and proficient with cutting curly hair. Ask your curly hair friends for recommendations or check out reviews online.
  • KeeyamahKeeyamah Registered Users Posts: 209 Curl Connoisseur
    Dimethicone is listed as an ingredient in the Herbal Essences Totally Twisted, but it is PEG-12. And I seem to recall reading that the PEG-modified -cones are more water soluble than the regular -cones. They do require gentle cleansers to get them fully out, but not sulfates, IIRC. The PEG-12 is on a different line that the word dimethicone, so easy to miss, I did the first time I read through the ingredient list here at home (only skimmed it at the store).
    Fine, low porosity at the roots, high porosity at the ends, medium to med-high density 2b/c
    Lo-Poo: Jessicurl Gentle Lather
    Leave-in: Diluted Tresemme Botanique with Coconut milk and Aloe Vera
    Rinse out: Tresemme Botanique with Coconut milk and Aloe Vera
    Curl Creams: Cantu Shea Butter for Natural Hair and Kinky-Curly Knot Today
    Gels: Herbal Essences Totally Twisted and LA Looks Sport Gel
    Treatments: Hask Keratin Protein Smoothing Deep Conditioner 

    Follow my oldest's Acute Lymphblastic Leukemia journey https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/quinntiegs


  • StephC79StephC79 Registered Users Posts: 99 Curl Connoisseur
    Keeyamah wrote: »
    Dimethicone is listed as an ingredient in the Herbal Essences Totally Twisted, but it is PEG-12. And I seem to recall reading that the PEG-modified -cones are more water soluble than the regular -cones. They do require gentle cleansers to get them fully out, but not sulfates, IIRC. The PEG-12 is on a different line that the word dimethicone, so easy to miss, I did the first time I read through the ingredient list here at home (only skimmed it at the store).

    Yes PEG-12 dimethicone is fully water soluble.
    3A with tight ringlet underlayer.
    Mixed porosity, medium texture and density.

    Cleaner - Shea Moisture fruit fusion shampoo, Maui Moisture curl quench shampoo, cleansing conditioner.
    Conditioner - L'Oreal Botanicals safflower conditioner.
    P/T - Curl Junkie repair me
    D/T - Shea Moisture manuka honey or fruit fusion mask
    Styling - Paul Mitchell round trip, Paul Mitchell super sculpt glaze, Paul Mitchell sculpting foam.
  • bomegabomega Registered Users Posts: 1,355 Curl Virtuoso
    Keeyamah wrote: »
    Dimethicone is listed as an ingredient in the Herbal Essences Totally Twisted, but it is PEG-12. And I seem to recall reading that the PEG-modified -cones are more water soluble than the regular -cones. They do require gentle cleansers to get them fully out, but not sulfates, IIRC. The PEG-12 is on a different line that the word dimethicone, so easy to miss, I did the first time I read through the ingredient list here at home (only skimmed it at the store).
    Oh, you are right. I missed that. (Sorry about that R2G2...looks like the HE Totally Twisted might be worth a try after all.)

    BTW: how are your curly experiments going in the Georgia summer?
    Low-poo: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Shampoo for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Coconut & Shea Hydrating Shampoo
    Clarify: Kinky Curly Come Clean
    Rinse-out: Alaffia Coffee & Shea Revitalizing Conditioner for Fine/Thin Hair (summer), Alaffia Everyday Coconut Ultra Hydrating Conditioner
    DT: Camille Rose Naturals Algae Renew Deep Conditioner
    Leave-in: As I Am Leave-in
    Styler: Lily of the Desert 99% Aloe Vera Gelly
    Treatment: Daily tea spray; Coconut oil overnight treatment; Citric acid rinse for hard water; 2-step Henndigo w/ amla to cover gray

    2C, fine, low porosity, low/medium density, protein sensitive

    Looking for styling products and tools

    iHerb Code KQS149 for 5% off your order
  • KeeyamahKeeyamah Registered Users Posts: 209 Curl Connoisseur
    bomega wrote: »
    BTW: how are your curly experiments going in the Georgia summer?


    I've actually in Idaho 😄. And having a crappy hair day today. I started my journey in to CG and actually realizing I have curly hair less than a week ago, lol. We have hot and dry summers and cold and dry winters. Still barely figuring anything out, but when I actually condition and put some gel in my hair, I'm happy with it right now. I just have to at least rinse out condition every day right now. Don't have any kind of second day care figured out.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Fine, low porosity at the roots, high porosity at the ends, medium to med-high density 2b/c
    Lo-Poo: Jessicurl Gentle Lather
    Leave-in: Diluted Tresemme Botanique with Coconut milk and Aloe Vera
    Rinse out: Tresemme Botanique with Coconut milk and Aloe Vera
    Curl Creams: Cantu Shea Butter for Natural Hair and Kinky-Curly Knot Today
    Gels: Herbal Essences Totally Twisted and LA Looks Sport Gel
    Treatments: Hask Keratin Protein Smoothing Deep Conditioner 

    Follow my oldest's Acute Lymphblastic Leukemia journey https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/quinntiegs


  • KeeyamahKeeyamah Registered Users Posts: 209 Curl Connoisseur
    Keeyamah wrote: »
    bomega wrote: »
    BTW: how are your curly experiments going in the Georgia summer?


    I've actually in Idaho 😄. And having a crappy hair day today. I started my journey in to CG and actually realizing I have curly hair less than a week ago, lol. We have hot and dry summers and cold and dry winters. Still barely figuring anything out, but when I actually condition and put some gel in my hair, I'm happy with it right now. I just have to at least rinse out condition every day right now. Don't have any kind of second day care figured out.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



    And I just realized you may have been asking another poster, ooopsie. I'm sorry


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Fine, low porosity at the roots, high porosity at the ends, medium to med-high density 2b/c
    Lo-Poo: Jessicurl Gentle Lather
    Leave-in: Diluted Tresemme Botanique with Coconut milk and Aloe Vera
    Rinse out: Tresemme Botanique with Coconut milk and Aloe Vera
    Curl Creams: Cantu Shea Butter for Natural Hair and Kinky-Curly Knot Today
    Gels: Herbal Essences Totally Twisted and LA Looks Sport Gel
    Treatments: Hask Keratin Protein Smoothing Deep Conditioner 

    Follow my oldest's Acute Lymphblastic Leukemia journey https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/quinntiegs


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