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Time for a Protein Treatment Help

machermacher Posts: 976Registered Users
Haven't done a protein treatment in ages. Although my hair is working good with GVP it doesn't have protein in it. My hair is sort of feeling weaker and needs some protein. Theresa1 suggested a John Masters product and I'm probably going to buy it. I'm not wanting to do a PT wheee you leave the product in for a long time etc. When I used Aubrey's I left it in for 5-10 minutes and did it once a week.

When I use the John Masters product can someone post the exact steps I'm suppose to take. Am I suppose to PT with it then cleanse, condition?

Thanks!

Comments

  • Therese1Therese1 Posts: 1,719Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Hello,

    When using the JM product, I would wash your hair as usual, or even do a clarifying wash, then put the JM conditioner on, and let it sit for 5-10 minutes. Then I would rinse it out as you would rinse out any conditioner. If your hair feels dry or brittle after using the JM, you can follow up with a second conditioner that doesn't contain protein. I would put the second conditioner on and let that sit for 5-10 minutes as well. But if your hair likes protein, you might not need the second conditioner.

    I think you could treat the JM conditioner like the Aubrey's. It's basically the same concept: a protein-rich rinse-out conditioner.
    Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonic; Oribe Cleansing Creme
    RO: IN Harmonic
    LI: As I Am; CJ Beauticurls; Jessicurl (JC) Gelebration Spray
    Stylers: JC Confident Coils; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray; John Masters Sea Mist; Bumble Bb. Gel
    Normal- to low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair
  • Therese1Therese1 Posts: 1,719Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Hello,

    When using the JM product, I would wash your hair as usual, or even do a clarifying wash, then put the JM conditioner on, and let it sit for 5-10 minutes. Then I would rinse it out as you would rinse out any conditioner. If your hair feels dry or brittle after using the JM, you can follow up with a second conditioner that doesn't contain protein. I would put the second conditioner on and let that sit for 5-10 minutes as well. But if your hair likes protein, you might not need the second conditioner.

    I think you could treat the JM conditioner like the Aubrey's. It's basically the same concept: a protein-rich rinse-out conditioner.
    Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonic; Oribe Cleansing Creme
    RO: IN Harmonic
    LI: As I Am; CJ Beauticurls; Jessicurl (JC) Gelebration Spray
    Stylers: JC Confident Coils; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray; John Masters Sea Mist; Bumble Bb. Gel
    Normal- to low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair
  • machermacher Posts: 976Registered Users
    Therese1 wrote: »
    Hello,

    When using the JM product, I would wash your hair as usual, or even do a clarifying wash, then put the JM conditioner on, and let it sit for 5-10 minutes. Then I would rinse it out as you would rinse out any conditioner. If your hair feels dry or brittle after using the JM, you can follow up with a second conditioner that doesn't contain protein. I would put the second conditioner on and let that sit for 5-10 minutes as well. But if your hair likes protein, you might not need the second conditioner.

    I think you could treat the JM conditioner like the Aubrey's. It's basically the same concept: a protein-rich rinse-out conditioner.

    Thanks! Going to give it a shot tomorrow morning. I'm currently using GVP Balm. I'm bad at labels. Does it have protein in it?
  • naturecatnaturecat Posts: 1,986Registered Users
    Just curious--is this a specific JM protein treatment? Or one of their existing products that contains protein? I hadn't seen that if so, so curious about it. It's time for me to do a protein treatment too. I'd love to find a gelatin alternative, as I'm mostly vegan.

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • Therese1Therese1 Posts: 1,719Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Naturecat, I'm referring to the JM Citrus and Neroli detangler, which seems to be a protein-rich conditioner. It's not a bona fide protein treatment.
    Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonic; Oribe Cleansing Creme
    RO: IN Harmonic
    LI: As I Am; CJ Beauticurls; Jessicurl (JC) Gelebration Spray
    Stylers: JC Confident Coils; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray; John Masters Sea Mist; Bumble Bb. Gel
    Normal- to low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair
  • Therese1Therese1 Posts: 1,719Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Macher, the GVP balm doesn't appear to have any protein in it, unless their is some protein in the herbal extracts. But the herbal extracts are at the very bottom of the list anyway.
    Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonic; Oribe Cleansing Creme
    RO: IN Harmonic
    LI: As I Am; CJ Beauticurls; Jessicurl (JC) Gelebration Spray
    Stylers: JC Confident Coils; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray; John Masters Sea Mist; Bumble Bb. Gel
    Normal- to low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair
  • machermacher Posts: 976Registered Users
    Therese1 wrote: »
    Macher, the GVP balm doesn't appear to have any protein in it, unless their is some protein in the herbal extracts. But the herbal extracts are at the very bottom of the list anyway.

    Thanks. On another note I need protein in my routine and I like GVP a lot but it doesn't have protein. Since I've been using it I'm noticing the lack of protein. I don't need a lot of protein in products but some.
  • machermacher Posts: 976Registered Users
    naturecat wrote: »
    Just curious--is this a specific JM protein treatment? Or one of their existing products that contains protein? I hadn't seen that if so, so curious about it. It's time for me to do a protein treatment too. I'd love to find a gelatin alternative, as I'm mostly vegan.

    Theresa described it well. JM is like a rinse out PT per se that you don't leave on your hair for a long time, rinse it out after 5-10 minutes.

    I used to use the Aubrey's product that you left in and rinsed out after 5-10 minutes. It helped make my hair feel stronger.

    The reason I never tried the likes of Apogee is because honestly I'm afraid too. The thought of your hair feeling like a rock isn't very appealing to me.
  • machermacher Posts: 976Registered Users
    Therese1 wrote: »
    Hello,

    When using the JM product, I would wash your hair as usual, or even do a clarifying wash, then put the JM conditioner on, and let it sit for 5-10 minutes. Then I would rinse it out as you would rinse out any conditioner. If your hair feels dry or brittle after using the JM, you can follow up with a second conditioner that doesn't contain protein. I would put the second conditioner on and let that sit for 5-10 minutes as well. But if your hair likes protein, you might not need the second conditioner.

    I think you could treat the JM conditioner like the Aubrey's. It's basically the same concept: a protein-rich rinse-out conditioner.

    Forgot to ask. Is JM 'moisturizing' cause I don't need much moisturizing when I do a PT. The Aubrey's I found wasn't moisturizing.
  • machermacher Posts: 976Registered Users
    Tried the JM this morning. Didn't clarify but cleansed my hair. Should have probably clarified because my hair was acting weird the last couple of days. Don't know if I used too much GVP Balm a couple of days ago cause my hair showed signs of over conditioning. I also think the lack of protein isn't helping either.

    What's happening is GVP when I first intially tried it worked great, even after. I clarified Monday then washed and conditioned with GVP. So the last round I applied GVP rinsed it all out then used some as a leave in. That's when my hair started to go like crap. To top it off what made it worse was when I got home Thursday I refreshed my hair by spritzing it my water / GVP combo. My hair started going straight and fluffy and didn't feel strong, still had wave but.

    Didn't clarify this morning because I clarified earlier in the week. I just rinsed my hair well with no poo. Applied JM and let it sit for 10 minutes and rinsed well. Got my waves back but some frizz and flyaways. My hair isn't brittle but sort of feels like some signs of over conditioning BUT not nearly as bad. What I did notice when I was putting my tee shirt over my head when my hair was close yo try my hair would go straight and I had to fluff it to get the wave back.

    Defiantly better than what it was. So I think the JM helped.

    Weird with the GVP though. The first time I used it I left a lot in and my hair was great. But then after I clarified earlier in the week and rinsed it all out and used some as a leave in like I said it crapped and quickly went down hill.

    Any suggestions?
  • machermacher Posts: 976Registered Users
    Update: not sure if my hair needed to settle or not. But looking better, waves are back but my hair still feels somewhat weak. Feels like maybe over conditioned?
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 462Registered Users Curl Novice
    If you are concerned about the GVP being protein fee and causing over conditioning the only things I could suggest would be 1. Use a short protein treatment every week until the humidity increases a little bit and see if you even need the GVP then. Or 2. Use the GVP less often like every other wash, or only scrunch/smooth a tiny bit on the ends versus using it as a rinse out or leave in. Or 3. And this would take some real experimenting but purchase some protein powder from Sally's and mix it in with the GVP to have it not be protein free. But don't ask me how to measure it out when adding it cuz I have no idea about that! Or you could even 4. Mix in some other high protein conditioner with the GVP in your hands when using it on wash days.
    Mostly 2b but ranges a-c front to back
    Low/med density, coarse, high porosity
    Lo poo: Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB
    Leave In: As I Am LI
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, LA Looks gel
  • machermacher Posts: 976Registered Users
    ttoosday wrote: »
    If you are concerned about the GVP being protein fee and causing over conditioning the only things I could suggest would be 1. Use a short protein treatment every week until the humidity increases a little bit and see if you even need the GVP then. Or 2. Use the GVP less often like every other wash, or only scrunch/smooth a tiny bit on the ends versus using it as a rinse out or leave in. Or 3. And this would take some real experimenting but purchase some protein powder from Sally's and mix it in with the GVP to have it not be protein free. But don't ask me how to measure it out when adding it cuz I have no idea about that! Or you could even 4. Mix in some other high protein conditioner with the GVP in your hands when using it on wash days.

    It's not that I'm concerned about GVP not having protein, it's that I need protein.

    The JM product can be used as a rinse out or leave in. Next time around I'm going to use GVP as a rinse out and JM as a leave in.

    The JM product helped restore my hair but not 100%.
  • machermacher Posts: 976Registered Users
    Therese1 wrote: »
    Hello,

    When using the JM product, I would wash your hair as usual, or even do a clarifying wash, then put the JM conditioner on, and let it sit for 5-10 minutes. Then I would rinse it out as you would rinse out any conditioner. If your hair feels dry or brittle after using the JM, you can follow up with a second conditioner that doesn't contain protein. I would put the second conditioner on and let that sit for 5-10 minutes as well. But if your hair likes protein, you might not need the second conditioner.

    I think you could treat the JM conditioner like the Aubrey's. It's basically the same concept: a protein-rich rinse-out conditioner.

    Thanks Therese for suggesting this. I let it sit for 10 minutes and didn't need a second conditioner. I liked Aubrey's but JM seems like a better quality product. Yea my hair needs protein not sure how much but I'll definitely be PT my hair with JM once a week and / or adding a small amount in my spritz bottle for refreshing. I know I can't go protein free though. JM says you can use as a leave in but try that but if I do I won't use a lot, hopefully just enough to give my hair the protein it needs.
  • Therese1Therese1 Posts: 1,719Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Macher, I'm really happy this worked for you. I myself don't find the JM Citrus and Neroli to be very moisturizing, but I think that's because my hair is protein sensitive. I think that the protein bonds to the hair shaft before the moisture gets in, effectively keeping the mositure out. But if I use the JM and then immediately do a deep treatment with a nonprotein condish, I get some really nice waves.

    The JM is a salon-quality product, so yes, it is good quality.

    The only thing I can think of with respect to the GVP is that I remember reading on the Science-y Hair Blog that sometimes herbal extracts can feel like build-up. There were some herbal extracts in the GVP, so maybe they somehow bonded to your hair or coated it or something. If it were me, I would probably continue with the protein treatments for another couple of times, and if that doesn't fix the problem, I would probably clarify and see if that fixes things.
    Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonic; Oribe Cleansing Creme
    RO: IN Harmonic
    LI: As I Am; CJ Beauticurls; Jessicurl (JC) Gelebration Spray
    Stylers: JC Confident Coils; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray; John Masters Sea Mist; Bumble Bb. Gel
    Normal- to low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair
  • Therese1Therese1 Posts: 1,719Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Macher, I'm really happy this worked for you. I myself don't find the JM Citrus and Neroli to be very moisturizing, but I think that's because my hair is protein sensitive. I think that the protein bonds to the hair shaft before the moisture gets in, effectively keeping the mositure out. But if I use the JM and then immediately do a deep treatment with a nonprotein condish, I get some really nice waves.

    The JM is a salon-quality product, so yes, it is good quality.

    The only thing I can think of with respect to the GVP is that I remember reading on the Science-y Hair Blog that sometimes herbal extracts can feel like build-up. There were some herbal extracts in the GVP, so maybe they somehow bonded to your hair or coated it or something. If it were me, I would probably continue with the protein treatments for another couple of times, and if that doesn't fix the problem, I would probably clarify and see if that fixes things.
    Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonic; Oribe Cleansing Creme
    RO: IN Harmonic
    LI: As I Am; CJ Beauticurls; Jessicurl (JC) Gelebration Spray
    Stylers: JC Confident Coils; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray; John Masters Sea Mist; Bumble Bb. Gel
    Normal- to low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair
  • machermacher Posts: 976Registered Users
    Therese1 wrote: »
    Macher, I'm really happy this worked for you. I myself don't find the JM Citrus and Neroli to be very moisturizing, but I think that's because my hair is protein sensitive. I think that the protein bonds to the hair shaft before the moisture gets in, effectively keeping the mositure out. But if I use the JM and then immediately do a deep treatment with a nonprotein condish, I get some really nice waves.

    The JM is a salon-quality product, so yes, it is good quality.

    The only thing I can think of with respect to the GVP is that I remember reading on the Science-y Hair Blog that sometimes herbal extracts can feel like build-up. There were some herbal extracts in the GVP, so maybe they somehow bonded to your hair or coated it or something. If it were me, I would probably continue with the protein treatments for another couple of times, and if that doesn't fix the problem, I would probably clarify and see if that fixes things.

    Actually thinking about products I've had good success with the Deva Delight line, the low poo and conditioner. I stink at reading labels but I believe the line has a lot of protein in it. However in the winter time I'm sure the glycerin caused issues. But in the summer and or humid weather my hair liked it. The conditioner isn't that moisturizing but when paired with B'Leave In in humidity works great. The B'Leave In is pretty moisturizing but CAN'T use it in the dry winter, makes my hair stringy and makes my hair look wet when it isn't.
  • machermacher Posts: 976Registered Users
    Therese1 wrote: »
    Macher, I'm really happy this worked for you. I myself don't find the JM Citrus and Neroli to be very moisturizing, but I think that's because my hair is protein sensitive. I think that the protein bonds to the hair shaft before the moisture gets in, effectively keeping the mositure out. But if I use the JM and then immediately do a deep treatment with a nonprotein condish, I get some really nice waves.

    The JM is a salon-quality product, so yes, it is good quality.

    The only thing I can think of with respect to the GVP is that I remember reading on the Science-y Hair Blog that sometimes herbal extracts can feel like build-up. There were some herbal extracts in the GVP, so maybe they somehow bonded to your hair or coated it or something. If it were me, I would probably continue with the protein treatments for another couple of times, and if that doesn't fix the problem, I would probably clarify and see if that fixes things.

    Therese is it possible that the JM might provides too much moisture? Looking at the ingredients there seems to be a moisturizing ingredient that's top on the list. Reason I'm asking is I don't know what's going on. It seems moisturizing to me because I'm either still showing some signs of over moisturizing or maybe too much protein? There's some sources that say too much protein can have similar effects as over moisturizing. But I always thought that too much protein made your hair brittle and hard and breakage and my hair isn't.

    When I did the treatment and rinsed it out my hair felt somewhat moisturized but not a lot. Didn't want to follow up with conditioner cause I didn't want to over condition/ moisturize again. Although my hair is feeling and looking stronger there are still signs of my hair being too soft on parts of my hair. Weird cause some parts don't feel or look like that. I added some LA Sports Gel and it doesn't seem to be hardening up and creating a cast. But my waves are becoming more defined and coming back. Maybe not as instant as I want LOL.
  • machermacher Posts: 976Registered Users
    Don't know if it's a coincidence or the product. As I said my hair was looking and feeling like crap. What I did this morning was spritzed my hair in the shower and smoothed on some diluted Deva Delight conditioner then lightly scrunched some LA Sports Gel. My hair took an almost complete turn around. After I scrunched out the crunch my hair looked and felt completely different than my crappy hair. No frizz no signs of either over conditioning or over protein. Was cold and dry today and worked outside with no hat and my hair was getting beat up but seemed to withstand the cold and dryness.

    Now I'm trying to figure out what in the Deva Delight helped. To me Deva Delight isn't the most moisturizing conditioner but it does from the looks have a decent amount of protein but glycerin is top 5. Sometimes glycerin does good for my hair and sometimes it doesn't.
  • machermacher Posts: 976Registered Users
    My hair is getting there. But darn it's wavier than I want. Maybe cause it's getting stronger with the Deva Delight conditioner.

    /home/leaving?target=https%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2Fgallery%2F25o3G" class="Popup
  • Therese1Therese1 Posts: 1,719Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Wow, that IS wavy! But you'd better not complain around here too much about hair that is *too* wavy. Ha ha.

    My guess is that your hair very much liked the PT. When you added the Deva product, you probably got a very nice balance of protein and moisture, which is making your waves so nice. Protein helps retain moisture, so the Deva is probably working very well in conjunction with the PT. Your experience is an example of why so many people follow a PT with a DC--to get the curls and waves to pop.

    As for me, when I use the JM alone, my hair is dry and flyaway, not overmoisturized. I do sometimes have the effect of overmoisturized hair from protein, but it feels different. I tend to use products with smaller proteins (hydrolyzed silk and keratin), and I think that those proteins might be more prone to creating an overmoisturized hair shaft rather than a brittle one. Too much protein also makes my hair straight. I have to be very careful.
    Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonic; Oribe Cleansing Creme
    RO: IN Harmonic
    LI: As I Am; CJ Beauticurls; Jessicurl (JC) Gelebration Spray
    Stylers: JC Confident Coils; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray; John Masters Sea Mist; Bumble Bb. Gel
    Normal- to low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair
  • Therese1Therese1 Posts: 1,719Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Wow, that IS wavy! But you'd better not complain around here too much about hair that is *too* wavy. Ha ha.

    My guess is that your hair very much liked the PT. When you added the Deva product, you probably got a very nice balance of protein and moisture, which is making your waves so nice. Protein helps retain moisture, so the Deva is probably working very well in conjunction with the PT. Your experience is an example of why so many people follow a PT with a DC--to get the curls and waves to pop.

    As for me, when I use the JM alone, my hair is dry and flyaway, not overmoisturized. I do sometimes have the effect of overmoisturized hair from protein, but it feels different. I tend to use products with smaller proteins (hydrolyzed silk and keratin), and I think that those proteins might be more prone to creating an overmoisturized hair shaft rather than a brittle one. Too much protein also makes my hair straight. I have to be very careful.
    Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonic; Oribe Cleansing Creme
    RO: IN Harmonic
    LI: As I Am; CJ Beauticurls; Jessicurl (JC) Gelebration Spray
    Stylers: JC Confident Coils; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray; John Masters Sea Mist; Bumble Bb. Gel
    Normal- to low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair
  • machermacher Posts: 976Registered Users
    Therese1 wrote: »
    Wow, that IS wavy! But you'd better not complain around here too much about hair that is *too* wavy. Ha ha.

    My guess is that your hair very much liked the PT. When you added the Deva product, you probably got a very nice balance of protein and moisture, which is making your waves so nice. Protein helps retain moisture, so the Deva is probably working very well in conjunction with the PT. Your experience is an example of why so many people follow a PT with a DC--to get the curls and waves to pop.

    As for me, when I use the JM alone, my hair is dry and flyaway, not overmoisturized. I do sometimes have the effect of overmoisturized hair from protein, but it feels different. I tend to use products with smaller proteins (hydrolyzed silk and keratin), and I think that those proteins might be more prone to creating an overmoisturized hair shaft rather than a brittle one. Too much protein also makes my hair straight. I have to be very careful.

    Yea it's obvious my hair likes protein. Gooseprints suggested small to medium hydrolized proteins at first like keratin or collagen. The larger proteins like wheat, oat, soy etc she said use with care but because of my properties they should be ok. She also said that combined large proteins can cause issues.

    The JM treatment helped but like you said it isn't very moisturizing. I thought it was. As a result what I wasn't wasn't doing was to continue to moisturize my hair with a product that has protein in it until I started using Deva Delight again. Seems like I can't just do a PT treatment then use non protein products during the week.

    I'm thinking my hair needs a dose of the likes of Deva Delight daily for maintenance. However the Deva Delight has glycerin high on the list and my hair is pretty inconsistent when it comes to glycerin. Sometimes it likes it and sometimes it doesn't. Maybe I'll try washing Deva Delight out completely and keep some for my more porous ends.

    I've also used Aveda Be Curly Intensive Detangling daily with success and it has hydrolized wheat protein. What I like about it you don't need a lot as it's very concentrated. Maybe like a dime size.

    Although I like the GVP Balm I don't think I want to learn how to incorporate it in my regimen cause it doesn't have protein. Probably can be used as a rinse out then followed by a dose of Deva but that could make my hair over moisturized. Defiantly can't used it as a stand alone.

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