The End

AngelaE9999

This is an actual map of Trump's wins (shown in red) as opposed to Hillary's wins (shown in blue). You can see why we don't do Presidential Elections based on "Popular Vote" which is another term for "Mob Rule". Just because a bunch of people decide to live in a particular big city, that means that big city and one or two more like it get to decide the President for the rest of the country? Nope; this is what the Constitution prevents.

AngelaE9999

Who can say Trump would not have won if there was no Electoral College? The election of 2016 was decided by using the Electoral College, and both candidates knew it ahead of time. Both their strategies were designed around that fact.


If there was no Electoral College, and the popular vote was going to decide the 2016 election, they would have also known that ahead of time, and designed their strategies around that fact.Trump would have changed the way he campaigned, where he went, where he put his resources, etc. and probably still would have won.




Saying after the election that Hillary would have won if the popular vote was used to determine the outcome, doesn't allow for all the shifts that would have taken place absent the Electoral College. It's a false argument.

AngelaE9999

Democracy vs. Republic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQFrc01iTsI

curlisue1

I find the information about the electoral college very interesting.


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Ikem

What I find really amazing about 2016 is that so many people where willing to vote for a candidate whose past actions and policies have left a trail of ruin and carnage across Africa and the Middle East.

I guess the educated voter joined the Dodo on the extinction list.

multicultcurly

hmkenny wrote: »

It is no surprise at all that the only defense for Trump is that he is not Clinton.

Our country was founded on protests. The alternative is taking it up the tailpipe.

I voted for Hillary because she was the lesser of two evils, and Trump scares me. That being said, I do think the protesters are in poor taste because they're protesting the result of a legal election. The problem is that almost half of the country didn't vote. Many of those nonvoters assumed Hillary would win. I hope they now understand the importance of voting and will "protest" through the existing legal and political channels instead of protesting something that is fair.

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multicultcurly

Ikem wrote: »

What I find really amazing about 2016 is that so many people where willing to vote for a candidate whose past actions and policies have left a trail of ruin and carnage across Africa and the Middle East.

I guess the educated voter joined the Dodo on the extinction list.

And I don't understand how people can vote for someone who represents a past that is fading away, who values money above all else, who uses his charity as a personal bank account, who doesn't pay workers and business partners, who belittles others like a small child, and has absolutely no political experience.

We had two unfavorable candidates. I honestly don't understand the Trump voters who actually believe in him. (I am not talking about those who voted for him because it was a vote against Hillary.) Those people may not understand why I thought Hillary was a safer choice.

I think this is a wake up call that people need to participate in primaries and become more active in our government. And not to be ageist, but it bothered me that the choices are about 70 if not older. Can we get some Middle age people who may be able to better relate to people of all ages?

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AngelaE9999

I actually agree with what's being said. Right now, just barely over 50% of the eligible voters actually vote. If we could almost double the number of votes by having everybody vote, I don't think our country would look anything like what it looks like today.

multicultcurly

AngelaE9999 wrote: »

I actually agree with what's being said. Right now, just barely over 50% of the eligible voters actually vote. If we could almost double the number of votes by having everybody vote, I don't think our country would look anything like what it looks like today.

I think this election was an anomaly because of the candidates. However, I agree that our country would look different. I think we would get more policies and politicians that were more reflective of the center and most Americans. As of now, the most active voters seem to be very socially conservative on the right, which is probably why our politicians mainly focus on repealing abortion and gay marriage. The next active voter is extremely liberal and wants to create huge social safety nets, without devising ways to pay for them and are biased to all of those who aren't as "open-minded" as they are. I hope this changes soon.

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AngelaE9999

multicultcurly wrote: »

AngelaE9999 wrote: »

I actually agree with what's being said. Right now, just barely over 50% of the eligible voters actually vote. If we could almost double the number of votes by having everybody vote, I don't think our country would look anything like what it looks like today.

I think this election was an anomaly because of the candidates. However, I agree that our country would look different. I think we would get more policies and politicians that were more reflective of the center and most Americans. As of now, the most active voters seem to be very socially conservative on the right, which is probably why our politicians mainly focus on repealing abortion and gay marriage. The next active voter is extremely liberal and wants to create huge social safety nets, without devising ways to pay for them and are biased to all of those who aren't as "open-minded" as they are. I hope this changes soon.

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I hope it changes, too. There are Conservative people in California (millions of them) who feel that their vote "doesn't count" so they haven't bothered voting for years. I am sure that in some places, there are likely many Liberal voters who might believe the same thing. But you're right; if everybody voted, we'd likely have candidates who have a wider appeal across all political spectrums. Perhaps we would cease having a "two party system" and perhaps have more parties that come into play or perhaps parties would go away. I consider myself a Conservative Leaning Independent so I wouldn't mind parties going by the wayside. I'd love to hear others' thoughts on that.

multicultcurly

I think we need a third party. However, the rules would need to be changed so independents have an equal chance. As of now, it's very difficult for independents to participate as candidates and not all states allow independents to vote in primaries. I don't know how we change that. I don't see either party eager to let a third party in.

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AngelaE9999

multicultcurly wrote: »

I think we need a third party. However, the rules would need to be changed so independents have an equal chance. As of now, it's very difficult for independents to participate as candidates and not all states allow independents to vote in primaries. I don't know how we change that. I don't see either party eager to let a third party in.

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Yeah, that's a real problem for sure. But if there were 100 million more "likely voters" on a regular basis, it makes sense that the parties would want to work with others and possibly let a third party compete. Who knows? I do wish that all eligible voters would actually vote.

Ikem

Eligible voter participation is important. But, the solution does not reside in increasing voter turnout.

Education. Education is the key.

Education starting from primary school. The number of people who finish secondary school and are still not able to read, write, or think logically is what impacts the nation most negatively. The factory jobs that previously maintained these individuals are generally no longer available in the US.

There is a reason the quality of education has been purposefully destroyed over the past few decades. If you don't know better, you will settle for anything that you are told is good for you.

The middle class has been decimated over the past 24 years, Clinton, Bush The Younger, Obama. Hence, I think there is a deep seated sense of unease, a loss of hope in the future, and a host of other assorted other economic and social thunderstorms bothering the masses.

Hence, the nation needs an economic revival. An educational rejuvenation. A better future that can be sensed, something that can be perceived as possible.

If not, I suspect the political choices made by the voters will become more radical, much further removed from the so-called "mainstream".

multicultcurly

Ikem, I agree with you about education. I think the lack of voter participation is partially due to people not understanding why voting is important, especially in local and midterm elections. I also think the lack for facts in favor of stating emotions to be factual are signs that the general public lacks critical thinking skills and doesn't read enough. I think this isn't as much of an issue with the under 50 crowd, as much as not understanding how government works. I also think this is because a civics class isn't mandatory for all high school students.

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AngelaE9999

I agree. Even right now, there are millions of adults who don't understand that we do not live in a "democracy". We are a Constitutional, Representative Republic. As such, the individual has certain rights that cannot be "voted away" by the majority. And our Presidential Elections aren't decided by millions of people living in three big cities. Everybody gets a say-so in how things work and everybody's vote counts. People are woefully ignorant; you're right that we desperately need education.

Democracy vs. Republic

Ikem

I had a rather illuminating conversation with a friend of mine a few days after that eventful Tuesday. He needed time to recover.

He indicated that there were a lot of people out early on that day. We discussed a few other things and then he went into the specifics of his experience.

After making his selection on the paper ballot for the presidential race he skipped over most of the other races because he did not recognize the names. I had to ask if he did not get a sample ballot and why he had not made time to educate himself about the other candidates that would be on the ballot.

Well, as far as he was concerned, it was the responsibility of the candidates to reach out to him. For a person who states that voting is important and strongly insists that his kids must vote, I found this viewpoint somewhat perplexing.

We have a long way to go.

wavypen

I skipped the judges on my ballot. I didn't have any information. I did do research about the down ballot races but I wasn't able to find much information about any of city council or state rep candidates or the city ballot measures. I ended up voting by party for most of those the local races and for the local ballot measures I made decisions based on the wording. I think this is in large part because of the decline of newspapers, they used to cover these sorts of things and I remember voting guides in paper when I was a kid.

AngelaE9999

wavypen wrote: »

I skipped the judges on my ballot. I didn't have any information. I did do research about the down ballot races but I wasn't able to find much information about any of city council or state rep candidates or the city ballot measures. I ended up voting by party for most of those the local races and for the local ballot measures I made decisions based on the wording. I think this is in large part because of the decline of newspapers, they used to cover these sorts of things and I remember voting guides in paper when I was a kid.

LOL, I had to look the judges up online as I went. Thankfully, Washington State has mail in ballots for every election. I was able to see what each one stood for and make an informed choice. We just moved to this new place from my old county that I had lived in for 41 years so I didn't even recognize the names.

multicultcurly

Usually vote.org and your local league of women voters sites will provide this information. However, this isn't promoted to the general public.

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fihe

I'm a Trump fan, and I'm happy to see that most of this topic is more civil and mature than I expected. A lot of people who don't like him are being so immature about it and are just looking for a reason to complain. Saying that Hillary won the election? Really? You all knew the rules beforehand, and want to act like sore losers now.

Besides, if Trump gets impeached and removed from office, we get President Pence. YAY!