My waves just can't make it

kellekkellek Posts: 16Registered Users
Hi wavies! I have been CG for about 6 weeks now and I am consistently running in to an issue. After a few hours my waves completely fade out and I am left with a floofy stringy mess. And second day hair? Forget about it! That mess is up in a bun. I have tried gel (sometimes looks good, sometimes doesn't) and mousse (same results). I tried using both together (that was a gunky disaster). What products should I look towards next for better hold/longevity? I went from using no styling products whatsoever to CG, so I am still getting used to the feel of product in my hair... necessary evil I guess. I would prefer to keep products to a minimum.

My signature has my current products. My hair likes to form thin waves instead of thick ones (shower/plopping clumps don't last, they always separate). I would love unicorn hair (shiny bouncy soft voluminous waves) but my hair leans towards beachy hippie.
:angel9:Curly Girl Newbie - started 9/7/2016
2a/2b, fine texture, medium density

Current Routine
Low Poo: Giovanni 50/50 Shampoo
Conditioner: Giovanni 50/50 Conditioner
Stylers: Curly Hair Solutions Curl Keeper/KY Lube, ISO BOuncy Curls, Miss Jessie's Jelly Soft Curls, Herbal Essence Body Envy Mousse, LA Looks gel (working out the right combo)

Comments

  • rymorg2rymorg2 Posts: 2,571Registered Users
    A few things...you may need to clarify. Plenty of us still need to clarify occasionally, myself included. Also have you tried a pt or dt?

    Lastly I looked up the stylers ingredients, while they are cg some ingredients like polyquats can build up and relax curl and wave. Also while technically water soluable, some people still can't use even peg modified silicones.
    Cosmetology Educator with sensitivities, eczema and Seborrheic Dermatitis.
    Low poo: looking
    COWash: Eden, cheapo condish, CJDF
    RO: varies
    Protein: CJCF or CJRM
    DT: CJHBDF, CJCR, DBPC
    LI: varies, usually KCKT
    Stylers: KCCC, CRNCM, UFDCM, Curls gel, ecostyler

    Lady Karaan, High Priestess of Hayr Tretements in the Order of Curly Crusaders
    Fotki updated 10/12/10 Password: wavy
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • naturecatnaturecat Posts: 1,986Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    In addition to clarifying/chelating.... you may want to try squish to condish:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDi0OvYSgSA
    Squish to Condish - There once was a curl - by Melissa Stites
    This gives nice thick chunky waves/curls.
    You can also try the ice queen method for bigger clumps (or some of the other methods listed there that mention clumping):
    http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/112371-techniques-links-supersoaker-spritz-condish-plopping-frizz-clipping-icequeen-etc.html

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • Therese1Therese1 Posts: 2,563Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    If you are fine haired, then co-washing might not be the best for you. Often, if you have fine hair, the occasional shampoo is helpful. Have you considered adding a gentle, sulfate-free shampoo to your routine?
    Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonic; Oribe Cleansing Creme
    RO: IN Harmonic
    LI: CJ Beauticurls; Jessicurl (JC) Gelebration Spray
    DC: JC Deep Conditioning Treatment; Weleda Rosemary Conditioning Oil
    Stylers: JC Confident Coils; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray; John Masters Sea Mist; Bumble Bb. Gel; Kenra Firm-Hold Gel; Sevi Blue Yarrow Sea Salt Spray
    Low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair
  • curlyannie80curlyannie80 Posts: 334Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Hi, I have fine hair, and even though I have 3a to 3b curls, if I strictly cowash, it'll weigh down my hair. I can't even do it, even though it looks good for a while, but it gets straight on top and over the weeks it'll get more and more straight. I've been lo-pooing for the past 2 years and it's going a lot better.

    Sent from my XT1254 using CurlTalk App
  • curlynccurlync Posts: 219Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I agree with all the suggestions above (clarifying, low-poo, no silicones). I also just wanted to add that the best hold I've gotten by far is when using UFDCM as my first layer with BRHG on top. Even though I have medium to coarse hair, leave-ins seem to weigh me down so I generally don't use them. Because you're fine, the BRHG might be too heavy for you, but perhaps something like the UFDCM alone would work for you. I've tried it alone myself, or over CJ CCCCL, and had good results. I just needed the extra hold of BRHG if I wanted it to last a few days though.
    2c/3a
    Porosity: low at roots; normal mid-shaft; high at ends
    Texture: mix of medium & coarse
    Density: medium


    Low-Poo: Jessicurl Gentle Lather; CJ Gentle Cleansing
    RO: GVP Conditioning Balm; Innersense Color Radiance
    Stylers: MT Curly Custard; CHS Curl Keeper; UFD Curly Magic; Innersense I Create Volume

    Occasional use: CJ Repair Me; Elucence Volume Clarifying Shampoo

    CG (or mod CG since I low-poo?) since June 2015
  • joslin2005joslin2005 Posts: 43Registered Users
    rymorg2 wrote: »
    A few things...you may need to clarify. Plenty of us still need to clarify occasionally, myself included. Also have you tried a pt or dt?

    Lastly I looked up the stylers ingredients, while they are cg some ingredients like polyquats can build up and relax curl and wave. Also while technically water soluable, some people still can't use even peg modified silicones.

    This explains why my hair hated Garnier Fructis and Organix products. I looked up the ingredients from the Garnier and Organix products I had used, and they all had the polyquats. Everytime I used their products, it made my hair dry, dull, tangly, limp and pulled my waves down. Now I know to watch out for polyquats. :-)

    That being said, I would recommend trying some different products without the polyquats and see if that helps. Oh and I just found this out, but if you buy hair products from Wal-Greens and CVS, if you don't like it, you can take it back. This would have saved me tons of money a long time ago. There may be others who offer the same kind of return policy.
    Curl Pattern: 2B/2C ( I think), LP, high density, coarse
    I'm experimenting with the following....
    Shampoo: Mop Top gentle shampoo, Mop Top clarifying rescue treatment
    Conditioner: Mop Top Daily Conditioner
    Leave in: As I am, KKKT
    Gel: Kinky Curly Custard, Cantu define and shine custard
    Refresher: Geranium Refresher Spray (2c distilled water+5 drops of geranium essential oil), DIY spray gel (1 T Mop Top custard + 1 oz distilled water)
  • kellekkellek Posts: 16Registered Users
    Thanks for the responses! I currently clarify about every 4-5 washes (so 10-14 days), I am being naughty and using the Suave clarifying shampoo because that is what I got when I did the big cleanse and started CG (my shampoo had silicones in it). When I do clarify I do it after a coconut oil treatment. I just ordered the Curly Hair Solutions Curl Keeper and am going to add that to my routine. We will see if it helps the gel out. Also, what are some ideas for a protein treatment that would be ok for fine hair? It is virgin hair (not color treated or permed/straightened) and I rarely heat style or blow dry. So it's not terribly damaged. I do feel like I am losing a lot of hair in the shower though, but that could be the hormones still working themselves out, I had a baby a year ago. Oh and Lordy the baby hairs I have now!
    :angel9:Curly Girl Newbie - started 9/7/2016
    2a/2b, fine texture, medium density

    Current Routine
    Low Poo: Giovanni 50/50 Shampoo
    Conditioner: Giovanni 50/50 Conditioner
    Stylers: Curly Hair Solutions Curl Keeper/KY Lube, ISO BOuncy Curls, Miss Jessie's Jelly Soft Curls, Herbal Essence Body Envy Mousse, LA Looks gel (working out the right combo)
  • kellekkellek Posts: 16Registered Users
    Ooooh and my hair has always hated Garnie Fructis shampoo and conditioner too! Like two washes in and I am tossing the bottle! So what are polyquats and is it hard to find products without them?
    :angel9:Curly Girl Newbie - started 9/7/2016
    2a/2b, fine texture, medium density

    Current Routine
    Low Poo: Giovanni 50/50 Shampoo
    Conditioner: Giovanni 50/50 Conditioner
    Stylers: Curly Hair Solutions Curl Keeper/KY Lube, ISO BOuncy Curls, Miss Jessie's Jelly Soft Curls, Herbal Essence Body Envy Mousse, LA Looks gel (working out the right combo)
  • Therese1Therese1 Posts: 2,563Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    Here are a couple of articles on polyquats:
    Science-y Hair Blog: Polyquat or Not?
    Science-y Hair Blog: Polyquat build-up

    Yes, in my experience, it is very difficult to find products without polyquats. I think you would have to look for a product that called itself "all natural" to avoid polyquats.

    If you have virgin hair, I would be really careful with protein treatments. I would start just with a protein-rich conditioner, one that has protein as one of the first several ingredients. Also be aware that some people's hair reacts differently to different proteins. Your hair might like oat protein but not soy, for example.
    Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonic; Oribe Cleansing Creme
    RO: IN Harmonic
    LI: CJ Beauticurls; Jessicurl (JC) Gelebration Spray
    DC: JC Deep Conditioning Treatment; Weleda Rosemary Conditioning Oil
    Stylers: JC Confident Coils; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray; John Masters Sea Mist; Bumble Bb. Gel; Kenra Firm-Hold Gel; Sevi Blue Yarrow Sea Salt Spray
    Low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair
  • Therese1Therese1 Posts: 2,563Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    Here are a couple of articles on polyquats:
    Science-y Hair Blog: Polyquat or Not?
    Science-y Hair Blog: Polyquat build-up

    Yes, in my experience, it is very difficult to find products without polyquats. I think you would have to look for a product that called itself "all natural" to avoid polyquats.

    If you have virgin hair, I would be really careful with protein treatments. I would start just with a protein-rich conditioner, one that has protein as one of the first several ingredients. Also be aware that some people's hair reacts differently to different proteins. Your hair might like oat protein but not soy, for example.
    Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonic; Oribe Cleansing Creme
    RO: IN Harmonic
    LI: CJ Beauticurls; Jessicurl (JC) Gelebration Spray
    DC: JC Deep Conditioning Treatment; Weleda Rosemary Conditioning Oil
    Stylers: JC Confident Coils; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray; John Masters Sea Mist; Bumble Bb. Gel; Kenra Firm-Hold Gel; Sevi Blue Yarrow Sea Salt Spray
    Low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair
  • SavagegirlSavagegirl Posts: 380Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Aside from the products, how do you DRY your hair??

    Have you tried minimal product but diffusing? I find this adds quite nicely to curl/wave formation.
    __
    2C-3A Fine, medium density, long
    Modified CG Method / Natural Only since 2015
    :thumbright:
    Canadian Mama!
  • naturecatnaturecat Posts: 1,986Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I like IAgirl's Protein Treatment:
    Science-y Hair Blog: Recipes and Projects
    You only need gelatin and water. As you experiment you can dilute it to your liking, and if the protein is too strong you can deep condition afterwards. Fine hair in general loves protein. If you're new to CG chances are you need both protein and moisture.

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • naturecatnaturecat Posts: 1,986Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I like IAgirl's Protein Treatment:
    Science-y Hair Blog: Recipes and Projects
    You only need gelatin and water. As you experiment you can dilute it to your liking, and if the protein is too strong you can deep condition afterwards. Fine hair in general loves protein. If you're new to CG chances are you need both protein and moisture.

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • suzi2qssuzi2qs Posts: 13Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I have been lurking these boards for months. For me some days have been better than others. Before CG, I never used styling product, I would just throw some oil on my ends and pin curl. Never used a blow dryer before as the result left me looking like a pissed off lion wandering the desert sands. Had to buy a blow dryer and diffuser, they really help me look extra curly, recently purchased a standing bonnet dryer from Cosmoprof, but Sally's sells them too. I use all CG friendly styling products and a lot of them. Just discovered that a final cold water rinse really helps my waves look curly. Clarifying is a must for me, my stylist introduced me to Malibu C Un-Do-Goo. This stuff is gentle but amazing. Finally, just try not to use products that will weight down your hair. Silicone and Polyquat will surely do this, and block moisture from going in to your hair shaft. Try to avoid. Hope this helps.
    Modified CG 7/29/2016
    LoPoo - SM FF, Jessicurl Gentle Lather,KCCC, Malibu C UnDoGoo
    Co-wash - Camille Rose Caramel Co Wash
    RO - DC Decadence, Jessicurl Too Shea! CJ Curl Rehab. LI - As I Am, Camille Rose Moisture Milk
    Styler - DC Ultra Defining Gel, KCCC, AG Re-coil Camille Rose Curl Maker
    DT - CJ Rehab & Repair Mielle Organics Babassu
    Olaplex 1 & 2 monthly, Deva Towel, 2 prong hair clips, satin sleep bonnet. Clarify with sulfate shampoo monthly, no cones.
  • kellekkellek Posts: 16Registered Users
    Thanks for the responses! I air dry my hair. I have a diffuser and used it once. It was awful! Also with my fine hair heat styling really dries it out and causes breakage so I save it for special occasions. I have two young kids (4 and 1), It is not feasible to spend and hour on styling, so wash and go is a must for me. I did a DIY gelatin treatment tonight, so we will see if that helps. Also the next time I go to the store I will look for some CG friendly gel and mousse without polyquats. Regardless of the wave output, my naked hair is looking much better so I am happy with where it going. I am just styling challenged!
    :angel9:Curly Girl Newbie - started 9/7/2016
    2a/2b, fine texture, medium density

    Current Routine
    Low Poo: Giovanni 50/50 Shampoo
    Conditioner: Giovanni 50/50 Conditioner
    Stylers: Curly Hair Solutions Curl Keeper/KY Lube, ISO BOuncy Curls, Miss Jessie's Jelly Soft Curls, Herbal Essence Body Envy Mousse, LA Looks gel (working out the right combo)
  • SavagegirlSavagegirl Posts: 380Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    How about plopping with a mesh hairnet? No heat
    __
    2C-3A Fine, medium density, long
    Modified CG Method / Natural Only since 2015
    :thumbright:
    Canadian Mama!
  • kellekkellek Posts: 16Registered Users
    Ok, here I am post gelatin treatment. I cowashed and squish to condish with my normal products. No leave in. Scrunched with LA Looks Sport Extreme gel (its blue), plopped, then air dried until about 80% dry. Then diffused and scrunched out the crunch. Looks nice, we will see how it holds up.
    :angel9:Curly Girl Newbie - started 9/7/2016
    2a/2b, fine texture, medium density

    Current Routine
    Low Poo: Giovanni 50/50 Shampoo
    Conditioner: Giovanni 50/50 Conditioner
    Stylers: Curly Hair Solutions Curl Keeper/KY Lube, ISO BOuncy Curls, Miss Jessie's Jelly Soft Curls, Herbal Essence Body Envy Mousse, LA Looks gel (working out the right combo)
  • kellekkellek Posts: 16Registered Users
    Ok, here I am post gelatin treatment. I cowashed and squish to condish with my normal products. No leave in. Scrunched with LA Looks Sport Extreme gel (its blue), plopped, then air dried until about 80% dry. Then diffused and scrunched out the crunch. Looks nice, we will see how it holds up.
    :angel9:Curly Girl Newbie - started 9/7/2016
    2a/2b, fine texture, medium density

    Current Routine
    Low Poo: Giovanni 50/50 Shampoo
    Conditioner: Giovanni 50/50 Conditioner
    Stylers: Curly Hair Solutions Curl Keeper/KY Lube, ISO BOuncy Curls, Miss Jessie's Jelly Soft Curls, Herbal Essence Body Envy Mousse, LA Looks gel (working out the right combo)

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