Wavies who can't cowash...

ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 509Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
What was it about your results that made you realize you couldn't cowash for your main routine? And what do you do for cleansing and how often?
CG since 11/2014
Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
Low density, very coarse, high porosity
Collarbone length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
Typical LEG routine could be any combination of:
Lo poo: Shea Moisture brand shampoo, Ion Hard Water Shampoo
Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
RO: GVP CB, Aussie Mega Moist, Not Your Mothers Gardenia
Leave In: As I Am LI, KCKT, or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
Enhancer: Camille Rose Curl Maker
Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
Protein: Hask Keratin
Styler: Curl Keeper Original, Ouidad Climate Control gel, LA Looks gel

Comments

  • Therese1Therese1 Posts: 2,563Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    It wasn't so much my co-washing results in and of themselves that made me question co-washing. My results were OK, I guess. But I always had *better* results after using a low poo. My hair felt bouncier.

    I think that if I had coarse hair that needed extra elasticity and smoothness, co-washing would have been ideal. But because my hair is fine and pretty smooth when properly cared for, I don't really need the extra softness that I feel co-washing gives. I also feel like my hair gets easily weighed down due to its being so fine.

    I recently had a period where my hair felt very dried out, so I tried going back to co-washing for a week or so. My hair was OK but not great. I realized that what I actually needed was to continue to poo but do a deep treatment. That gave me a really good hair day!

    For cleansing, I low poo with Intelligent Nutrients Harmonizing Shampoo once every three days, roughly. I concentrate on my scalp. I follow with the conditioner and have been doing deep treatments if my hair feels extra dry. The poo is very gentle and protein free (protein was drying out my hair), and the conditioner is I would say midweight.

    I occasionally use a bonafide co-wash by Oribe: Cleansing Creme for Moisture and Control. It cleanses really well but has protein in it, so I can use it only so often, maybe once every couple of weeks (if that...I'm still experimenting), and I may have to condition afterward if my hair feels like it doesn't want to clump due to the protein boost.

    Is there something in particular that is making you question co-washing? If you feel like your hair isn't getting clean enough, you could switch to a "real" co-wash, or a conditioner that has cleansing ingredients in it, rather than switching directly to a low poo.
    Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonic; Oribe Cleansing Creme
    RO: IN Harmonic
    LI: CJ Beauticurls; Jessicurl (JC) Gelebration Spray
    DC: JC Deep Conditioning Treatment; Weleda Rosemary Conditioning Oil
    Stylers: JC Confident Coils; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray; John Masters Sea Mist; Bumble Bb. Gel; Kenra Firm-Hold Gel; Sevi Blue Yarrow Sea Salt Spray
    Low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 509Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Well, its not really a problem with feeling clean, Im still just trying to control frizz.

    Im trying things that I hadn't given much thought to before. I am going to start chelating once a week, when before, I'd only do that monthly if not every two months. Im doing protein and deep treatment alternating weekends too now, while before, I avoided any large doses of protein. And I'm playing around with oils like argan and jojoba. I might be getting a little bit of softness, but honestly, I am still not seeing much change in frizz especially on day 2 or longer.

    I have pondered the idea that maybe as a wavy, I should not have been trying to only cowash, with poos only every couple of weeks. I know I have hard water, and I probably get a fair amount of build up, so clarifying should occur more often probably as well. So perhaps chelating once a week will clarify as well as remove other buildup. However, being course and high porosity, I worry about over-washing, especially with shampoo (even sulfate free), so I've tried to primarily cowash. But add in using oils every other day in products and as a sealer, I may need to be clarifying/chelating on a weekly basis. Or even every wash day.

    I wondered what other wavies felt was the giveaway that maybe cowashing wasnt cutting it. I can see what you mean when you say it wasnt the cowash results but the poo results that was the giveaway.

    My main problem area is the crown and top layer, i cant get the frizz under control and i cant get much of a curl pattern in the front at all. I used Got2b spiking glue and finally got some frizz control and hold but Id like to achieve volume and frizz control up close to the scalp without having to use ridiculously strong polymers that may not wash out easily.

    Maybe cutting out cowashing and actually cleansing more often would make a difference in achieving my goals of volume, definition, and hold. I dont generally feel weighed down ever, but i do get flat roots and its like the heat from my scalp flattens out curl somewhat.
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Collarbone length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Typical LEG routine could be any combination of:
    Lo poo: Shea Moisture brand shampoo, Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB, Aussie Mega Moist, Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Leave In: As I Am LI, KCKT, or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Enhancer: Camille Rose Curl Maker
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, Ouidad Climate Control gel, LA Looks gel
  • naturecatnaturecat Posts: 1,986Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Here was the giveaway for me; my hair wouldn't curl and would zigzag and stick out weirdly. When I clarified, the curl returned. I could CO wash if I used only gelatin gel, as I did back when I first when CG and was super lo po. Other than gelatin I use primarily PVP and guar gum in products to help with hold. I get buildup easily. Lately I've taken to using SM FF on my scalp, but using KCCC on my lengths every wash, as I get better curl with it. A sure sign I should not be CO washing with the products I use! I have hard water so I also use ACV every few washes.

    One idea you might try: flip your head upside down to wash. You probably wash right side up and concentrate the shampoo lather on your top layer, when it's actually the bottom layer that usually has more moisture. So wash upside down and this way the top gets cleaned but more gently. Also since you don't get weighed down do extra conditioning and maybe squish to condish along your crown.

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 509Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Naturecat- you're right, I do get more agitation in my cowash and/or shampoo on the top layer. Next wash day I'll flip upside down. I do squish to condish but I usually focus on the tips in the front where I feel like I might still have some heat damage. I'll change that up too. Great tips! Thanks!

    I think I could say I get somewhat better results after a low poo or clarifying wash. I just worry about drying my hair out so I'm going to also try to remember to prepoo with coconut oil. Alot of work it is to be CG!
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Collarbone length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Typical LEG routine could be any combination of:
    Lo poo: Shea Moisture brand shampoo, Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB, Aussie Mega Moist, Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Leave In: As I Am LI, KCKT, or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Enhancer: Camille Rose Curl Maker
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, Ouidad Climate Control gel, LA Looks gel
  • Therese1Therese1 Posts: 2,563Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    If you have hard water, maybe you want to try an Ion clarifying treatment from Sally's. I used one once, and it was quite gentle. It is supposed to get rid of hard water build-up. I'm just curious as to whether your problems are traceable to your hard water, because if I remember right, you can't seem to get anything to really make a difference in your hair.

    Hard water can really do a number on your hair. I had bad hard water buildup on my hair in one place I lived in, and even though I did lemon juice and ACV treatments, I couldn't get rid of it. It wasn't until I moved and got a new water supply that my hair became softer. Maybe if you try the Ion treatment and it clears your hair problems up, you will know that the culprit is the hard water and can take steps to fix it. (I think that with hard water buildup, if you don't stay on top of it, it's difficult to remove with home treatments.)
    Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonic; Oribe Cleansing Creme
    RO: IN Harmonic
    LI: CJ Beauticurls; Jessicurl (JC) Gelebration Spray
    DC: JC Deep Conditioning Treatment; Weleda Rosemary Conditioning Oil
    Stylers: JC Confident Coils; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray; John Masters Sea Mist; Bumble Bb. Gel; Kenra Firm-Hold Gel; Sevi Blue Yarrow Sea Salt Spray
    Low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 509Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Therese1- It is near impossible to nail down any definitive result of anything, even hard water! It just seems like nothing works.
    I looked into getting a water softener for my house. But the funky way our plumbing is set up, there isnt a way to get one into the garage without an estimated $1000 plumbing install across the front of our house (basements are not typical where I live). Plus, I read that people are not supposed to drink salt softened water? I don't know I've read too much information to be able to know what to do.

    I feel like I must have super high unattainble expectations for what my hair should look like after I got alot of heat damage cut off 9 months ago. I figured I could get gorgeous 2c/3a curls but my waves end up being so weak that even the slightest thing can pull the wave right out. Or they just dont wave much at all to begin with. I also think it needs to grow grow grow, perhaps it needs much more length to get to what I envision it looking like. Im having my stylist add more and more layers at each trim, maybe theres still alot of heat damage...but every new layer means a loss of alot of growth.

    It feels like Im in a vicious cycle of: product build up, so I wash. Washing causes dryness. Dryness causes frizz. So dryness and frizz call for product. All the oils, conditioners, enhancers, gels cause the build up. Trying to fix one problem causes another. All i want is hair that is clean, soft, clumped, and not frizzed, (and stays that way) in a 2c or tighter pattern all over. Alas, the journey continues.

    Last night I slept in coconut oil. Today I used Ion Hard Water shampoo, twice, upside down. I used GVPCB as a rinse out. I applied Tress Botaniqe with several drops of argan oil and s2c'd upside down all the way up to the scalp. I cocktailed Camille Rose Curl Maker with Got2b Glued. Tshirt squeezed and diffused. I notice more softness today (thats good). But I think applying stylers upside down and diffusing that way was a mistake because I had frizz during diffusing (although that is not unusual). It is possible I still had cone residue from an experiment last week with Tigi Catwalk that sulfate free shampoo didnt remove all the way.
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Collarbone length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Typical LEG routine could be any combination of:
    Lo poo: Shea Moisture brand shampoo, Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB, Aussie Mega Moist, Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Leave In: As I Am LI, KCKT, or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Enhancer: Camille Rose Curl Maker
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, Ouidad Climate Control gel, LA Looks gel
  • ExpectoPatronumExpectoPatronum Posts: 143Registered Users
    I actually really liked how my hair looked and felt when I cowashed. For me, the problem was with my scalp. My scalp isn't oily, but it isn't dry either. I can go a couple days without looking greasy, but after that it goes from greasy to gross very quickly. With cowashing, I felt like I had to wash my hair more often (~every day). While I could skip a day, my scalp did not like that and would start to itch. This problem happened no matter what I used, and how much/little. In addition, cowashing managed to leave me with a lot of extra shedding, which I attribute to having to scrub the scalp with your fingers more.

    Right now I use a sulfate free shampoo around 2-3x a week. My scalp is much much happier. The one I'm using now (Some Shea Moisture scalp detox one) actually feels a little moisturizing to the hair. Because I often skip a few days between washes, I feel like my hair has time to absorb the oils my scalp is producing. Using a gentle shampoo cleans my hair, but doesn't strip it either.

    I really feel stretching washes benefited my hair and scalp more than cowashing did.
    :color: HAIR STATS & ROUTINE :color:
    2c/3a--medium porosity--medium density--medium/coarse
    Cleansers: Shea Moisture Scalp Detox Shampoo, wash ~2x a week
    Conditioners: Cantu Hydrating Cream Conditioner (RO,HG!)
    Stylings: SM Curl and Style Milk (HG), Camille Rose Curl Maker (HG!)
    SOTC: SM Curl and Style Milk
    Oils: Coconut
    Working with waves since April 2015

  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 509Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Expecto- i could say the same thing about oily scalp. I can only go about 2 days cuz 3rd day hair is borderline gross. I'm also working out now the nights before wash mornings so with sweat contributing as well... It ain't pretty.

    Interesting you mention that about shedding. I can't believe I'm not bald. I plan to start low pooing and I will pay attention to whether I have less shedding.
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Collarbone length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Typical LEG routine could be any combination of:
    Lo poo: Shea Moisture brand shampoo, Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB, Aussie Mega Moist, Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Leave In: As I Am LI, KCKT, or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Enhancer: Camille Rose Curl Maker
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, Ouidad Climate Control gel, LA Looks gel
  • Swati.PriyadSwati.Priyad Posts: 2Registered Users
    My scalp becomes dry and flaky with cowash. It even hurts to change part or after removing my hair from pineapple. Oiling before cowash didn't help either. I happen to need quite some oil to detangle and cowash doesn't remove it all.
  • Nina.HewittNina.Hewitt Posts: 1Registered Users
    This is a late reply but maybe it will help someone. I have very hard water in the Tampa area with fine, dense, wavy hair. I don't get any benefit out of cowashing, and get better hair with low poo like any shea moisture. Cowashing does not remove all polymer products, it definitely causes mineral build up that makes my hair feel puffy and dry but lacks curl pattern. I chelate/clarify with ion hard water shampoo frequently and I rinse every wash with a distilled water final rinse. My non chelate/clarify routine has become to gent shower, get some of the horrible mineral-ridden florida water on my hair and work in a large amount of suave coconut conditioner as a prewash. I rinse most of that out and then low poo with shea moisture manuka mafura. I rinse that VERY well and cover my head in shea moisture conditioner (sometimes I try other conditioners). I rinse that very well with the tap water and quickly squeeze excess out. Then I quickly get that distilled water rinse on my hair so that the minerals don't have time to set. I squeeze squeeze and microfiber plop or wrap. I'm not sure if I had soft or softened water if cowashing would work for me. When we softened our water I tried cowashing and it still made my hair feel bloated, puffy, and oddly dry at the same time.
  • RafterBatRafterBat Posts: 182Registered Users Curl Novice
    Co-washing worked great for me for a year, but over the past month or so I can't figure out what's going on. I am SO tired of clarifying and chelating to fight the greasy scalp and dull hair, then having to deep condition to recover from the harsher cleansers - with no improvement in scalp or hair! I already use distilled water for the coffee maker because the water is so hard here, so I should try a rinse to see if that will work.


    Lol, I have a filtering shower head, but the mineral buildup is so bad that it's fused so that I can't change the filter. Looking for an entirely new unit after Christmas...
    2c, coarse, low elasticity, medium/high density; varied porosity, protein- and coconut-sensitive
    CJ Daily Fix and Smoothing Conditioner; then Beauticurls and Pattern Pusha
    For a deeper clean once a week, Trader Joe's Tea Tree Tingle shampoo and conditioner 
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 509Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    RafterBat wrote: »
    Co-washing worked great for me for a year, but over the past month or so I can't figure out what's going on. I am SO tired of clarifying and chelating to fight the greasy scalp and dull hair, then having to deep condition to recover from the harsher cleansers - with no improvement in scalp or hair! I already use distilled water for the coffee maker because the water is so hard here, so I should try a rinse to see if that will work.


    Lol, I have a filtering shower head, but the mineral buildup is so bad that it's fused so that I can't change the filter. Looking for an entirely new unit after Christmas...


    I gave up on trying to combat the hardness, and instead starting combating the chlorine, and that made a big difference. Does your shower head filter for chlorine or only minerals? I actually couldn't find a shower head to filter minerals where I live. I was going to have to install a water softener. But chlorine shower head filters were plentiful and relatively cheap.
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Collarbone length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Typical LEG routine could be any combination of:
    Lo poo: Shea Moisture brand shampoo, Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB, Aussie Mega Moist, Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Leave In: As I Am LI, KCKT, or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Enhancer: Camille Rose Curl Maker
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, Ouidad Climate Control gel, LA Looks gel
  • RafterBatRafterBat Posts: 182Registered Users Curl Novice
    ttoosday wrote: »
    RafterBat wrote: »
    Lol, I have a filtering shower head, but the mineral buildup is so bad that it's fused so that I can't change the filter. Looking for an entirely new unit after Christmas...


    I gave up on trying to combat the hardness, and instead starting combating the chlorine, and that made a big difference. Does your shower head filter for chlorine or only minerals? I actually couldn't find a shower head to filter minerals where I live. I was going to have to install a water softener. But chlorine shower head filters were plentiful and relatively cheap.



    When I bought my current shower head I thought the packaging said it filtered minerals, but could not find the same one last week at my local Lowe's. I ended up ordering a Culligan brand one that claims to filter both chlorine and mineral "scale." Here's hoping!
    2c, coarse, low elasticity, medium/high density; varied porosity, protein- and coconut-sensitive
    CJ Daily Fix and Smoothing Conditioner; then Beauticurls and Pattern Pusha
    For a deeper clean once a week, Trader Joe's Tea Tree Tingle shampoo and conditioner 
  • wycurlswycurls Posts: 47Registered Users
    RafterBat wrote: »
    ttoosday wrote: »
    RafterBat wrote: »
    Lol, I have a filtering shower head, but the mineral buildup is so bad that it's fused so that I can't change the filter. Looking for an entirely new unit after Christmas...


    I gave up on trying to combat the hardness, and instead starting combating the chlorine, and that made a big difference. Does your shower head filter for chlorine or only minerals? I actually couldn't find a shower head to filter minerals where I live. I was going to have to install a water softener. But chlorine shower head filters were plentiful and relatively cheap.



    When I bought my current shower head I thought the packaging said it filtered minerals, but could not find the same one last week at my local Lowe's. I ended up ordering a Culligan brand one that claims to filter both chlorine and mineral "scale." Here's hoping!


    Try taking a ketchup-diner squirt style bottle and add some distilled water and 2-3tbsp of apple cider vinegar. Squirt this on your scalp and hair after using your RO conditioner. Massage your head a bit, then rinse out after 2 min. I have noticed a big improvement in my scalp & the way my hair feels from doing this. It is extremely beneficial if you have hard water!
  • suzi2qssuzi2qs Posts: 13Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I have been very modified GC for about six months. Co washing won't cut it for me since I have started using styling products. As a rule I lo poo twice weekly with a co wash once in between. After a few weeks the build up becomes too much for me and I have to clarify with a sulfate shampoo. I got to this point yesterday, my hair was feeling dry, but heavy and it refused to look good. I used my husband's Nioxin shampoo last night, put on Jessicurl Too Shea! with a cap for about 5 minutes in the shower and BANG! Great hair this morning. The CG concept is one I use, but I can't do it to the letter. Everyone's hair is different. As far as 100% natural products I am down, but I don't put food in my hair. Vinegar and baking soda would kill my high lift bond hair. Experimenting has been expensive but its fun.
    Modified CG 7/29/2016
    LoPoo - SM FF, Jessicurl Gentle Lather,KCCC, Malibu C UnDoGoo
    Co-wash - Camille Rose Caramel Co Wash
    RO - DC Decadence, Jessicurl Too Shea! CJ Curl Rehab. LI - As I Am, Camille Rose Moisture Milk
    Styler - DC Ultra Defining Gel, KCCC, AG Re-coil Camille Rose Curl Maker
    DT - CJ Rehab & Repair Mielle Organics Babassu
    Olaplex 1 & 2 monthly, Deva Towel, 2 prong hair clips, satin sleep bonnet. Clarify with sulfate shampoo monthly, no cones.
  • FrizzymessreeeFrizzymessreee Posts: 17Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Curl Neophyte
    After I realised it only makes my hair greasy

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